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Thread: time

  1. #1 time 
    Forum Sophomore numb3rs's Avatar
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    does time realy exist? or is it just something the human race has come up with ? is time just here to convenitly suit scientists? think of going on a walk. and you need to go from point A to point B your starting desination your house and your ending destination wallmart lol lets say its 10 miles
    first of all to get there you have to walk 5 miles and before that 2.5 miles and before you can reach 2.5 miles you have to reach 1.25 miles im not giveing this story justice but im shure everyone knows the point im trying to say how will you ever get to wallmart? how will you ever get your bran new flat screen T.V? for example if your walking on the side walk your speed is relative to the sidewalk beneath you. it is impossable to have one instant in time only a interval of time if there is no instances there is no infinity paradox. which proves that there is no real time mesurement.

    i may sound dumb on this >< im in 8th grade and came up with this off the top of my head i think i left a lot out but it was a hard thing to think about


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  3. #2  
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    Time is change, and you are correct, it is man made-the definition at least.

    Everyone has their own interpretation of time, so make one for yourself because I don't see it being explained thoroughly for a long time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Time is change, and you are correct, it is man made-the definition at least.

    Everyone has their own interpretation of time, so make one for yourself because I don't see it being explained thoroughly for a long time.


    you can measure time however you want. nothing changes it speed or the fact that it is perfectly constant, and unable to be manipulated.
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  5. #4  
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    Just like me :-D
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  6. #5  
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    If you follow the digression from instrument to observer then you will see that it all ends with our arbitrary perception. Time is defined by each entity, and is entirely subjective. The only way to make time objective would be to invent an entirely new perspective of the universe, like a new E=MC^2.

    BTW, Requisition, I like your quote. THE MATRIX OWNS.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    Thanks . I love those films, especially the original.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  8. #7  
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    We should have a section called, "Philosophy of The Matrix".

    I'm not kidding, those movies had allot of very important philosophy in them. After watching the first over 20X, I started to see it.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  9. #8  
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    your a very creapy person if you whachd the matrix 20x's....
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    Creepy???? Over 10 years or so thats completely reasonable. 2X a year, is that so bad? The others I haven't watched as much, actually.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  11. #10  
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    IMO

    Time is the speed at which we experience reality

    Different species (IMO) experience time/reality at different speeds.

    (No I am not talking about kirkadian clock)
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  12. #11  
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    That would screw up my theory if that were true. Time passes at 1/sec per sec relative to oneself for everyone no matter their own reference frame.
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    The concept of time becomes much easier when you understand that it is finite. There was a time, before time, when time did not exist. There will come a time, after time, when time will cease to exist. As for now, we are stuck in time. It exists. We just do not know how long that existence will remain. For us, that is of no consequence. Once time ceases, questions like "how long?" will become meaningless.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Time is change, and you are correct, it is man made-the definition at least.
    Time is not change since time has no influence over any physical changes whatsoever, however time can be used to measure change.

    Everyone has their own interpretation of time, so make one for yourself because I don't see it being explained thoroughly for a long time.
    Time is well defined and understood.
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  15. #14 Re: time 
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    Quote Originally Posted by numb3rs
    does time realy exist?
    Tap a pen on the table, rhythmically. You've just created "time." Although crude in it's accuracy, that method can be used for measuring.
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  16. #15  
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    well if your definition is right then time realy doesent exist its just a man made invention.

    if time did exist i beleav the theroy that everything that will happen has happend if time exists i dont beleave that it is random it cant be.
    my grammer is not to be made fun of
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  17. #16  
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    Oh, time is very real. The way you experience the universe is 'only human'.

    Time is both, a dimension (non human view) and 'change' as 425 Chaotic Requisition says. The problem is that the definition Time covers both terms, both the time dimension and 'change'.

    (Q), if time had no influence on physical changes, what would happen if you would stop time?
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz

    (Q), if time had no influence on physical changes, what would happen if you would stop time?
    If you were rhythmically tapping a pen on a table and suddenly stopped, would any physical process be changed or altered as a result? None.

    The only difference is that now you can no longer take 'time' measurements as you have nothing to reference.
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  19. #18  
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    Time in a non-organic world is relative to the speed objects are traveling. If one planet is traveling twice as fast as another planet, non-organic reactions would be occuring slower on the faster planet than they were occuring on the planet that is going slower. This is to account for scientist's observations that light leaves objects at the same rate no matter how fast the object is travelling.

    Time in an Organic setting could quite possibly rely on how fast the "brain" processes information. There are times when a human is in danger that the brain can take in information faster, thereby making his or her surroundings seem to slow down. The same may be true in different organisms, in fact, it may be that different organisms experience time differently wether in a dangerous situation or not.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz

    (Q), if time had no influence on physical changes, what would happen if you would stop time?
    If you were rhythmically tapping a pen on a table and suddenly stopped, would any physical process be changed or altered as a result? None.

    The only difference is that now you can no longer take 'time' measurements as you have nothing to reference.
    OMG I expected far more... How can you possibly think time is well defined and understood. The definition of the second is defined as the average duration or "time" it takes for a certain number of excited caesium atoms to decay radioactively.

    Of course there is physical change if you tap the table. The system changes by the very fact you are tapping. Energy has been used, disapated etc. Overall in the universal closed system from the moment you started tapping to the moment you stopped, entropy has increased. This isa common thought on what time physcally is.
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  21. #20  
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    This isa common thought on what time physcally is.
    An arrow of entropy? I think that would make sense when the whole universe is considered, but time happens within systems were the arrow points the other way (a growing child for instance)?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynapse

    OMG I expected far more... How can you possibly think time is well defined and understood. The definition of the second is defined as the average duration or "time" it takes for a certain number of excited caesium atoms to decay radioactively.
    The decay rate is the same as tapping a pen.

    Of course there is physical change if you tap the table. The system changes by the very fact you are tapping. Energy has been used, disapated etc. Overall in the universal closed system from the moment you started tapping to the moment you stopped, entropy has increased. This isa common thought on what time physcally is.
    Time had nothing to do with those physical changes other than the capacity to measure them, not affect them.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz

    (Q), if time had no influence on physical changes, what would happen if you would stop time?
    If you were rhythmically tapping a pen on a table and suddenly stopped, would any physical process be changed or altered as a result? None.

    The only difference is that now you can no longer take 'time' measurements as you have nothing to reference.
    I find your metaphor a very crude example.

    If i where to tap a pen on the table, I am not only defying the gravitational energy of the earth by lifting the pen but creating potential gravitational energy. By moving the pen back towards the table I am creating kinetic energy coupled with the noise energy of the pen hitting the table plus the thermal energy of the friction of air as the pen passes through it, no matter how small(including the movement of the air particles), and as it actualy hits the table. Not to mention the conversion of food or matter into energy required to do this. Etc, etc!

    So by stopping the tapping on the table I have created a change just as I have when I started the tapping. The only difference being that the unit of measuring time (being the noise in this case) has stopped.

    So was there time, before I tapped the table with the pen?

    If you combine this with the idea that all atoms are moving or vibrating transfering energy and electrons between each other (even when the object as a whole is stationary), then even if you had not started the tapping in the first place there would still be time, just not measurable to the five major human senses.

    Time is not what happens within a given second, this is man made!

    I believe time is proportional to the observer (individual) and the speed at which they are traveling within regards to their direct environment. (just as light)

    As 425 Chaotic Requisition states: "Time is change"
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  24. #23  
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    you logic is flawed in that i would never walk 10 miles just to go to wal mart and that i would never walk another 10 miles while carrying a tv
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3

    I find your metaphor a very crude example.
    Crude, but effective nonetheless.

    If i where to tap a pen on the table, I am not only defying the gravitational energy of the earth by lifting the pen but creating potential gravitational energy. By moving the pen back towards the table I am creating kinetic energy coupled with the noise energy of the pen hitting the table plus the thermal energy of the friction of air as the pen passes through it, no matter how small(including the movement of the air particles), and as it actualy hits the table. Not to mention the conversion of food or matter into energy required to do this. Etc, etc!
    So, how is that different from a swinging pendulum, aside from the food conversion?

    So by stopping the tapping on the table I have created a change just as I have when I started the tapping. The only difference being that the unit of measuring time (being the noise in this case) has stopped.
    As a swinging pendulum has stopped.

    So was there time, before I tapped the table with the pen?
    And, before the pendulum began to swing?

    If you combine this with the idea that all atoms are moving or vibrating transfering energy and electrons between each other (even when the object as a whole is stationary), then even if you had not started the tapping in the first place there would still be time, just not measurable to the five major human senses.
    You've answered your own questions, sort of. Time only exists as a mathematical quantity used as a measuring device. It exists if we take the measurement.

    I believe time is proportional to the observer (individual) and the speed at which they are traveling within regards to their direct environment. (just as light)
    So, essentially, a pendulum or tapping of a pen, would slow relative to the observer who may be traveling at a different speed, hence you would obserce time slowing.

    As 425 Chaotic Requisition states: "Time is change"
    No. change is change. Time is the measuring of those changes.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3

    I find your metaphor a very crude example.
    Crude, but effective nonetheless.

    If i where to tap a pen on the table, I am not only defying the gravitational energy of the earth by lifting the pen but creating potential gravitational energy. By moving the pen back towards the table I am creating kinetic energy coupled with the noise energy of the pen hitting the table plus the thermal energy of the friction of air as the pen passes through it, no matter how small(including the movement of the air particles), and as it actualy hits the table. Not to mention the conversion of food or matter into energy required to do this. Etc, etc!
    So, how is that different from a swinging pendulum, aside from the food conversion?

    So by stopping the tapping on the table I have created a change just as I have when I started the tapping. The only difference being that the unit of measuring time (being the noise in this case) has stopped.
    As a swinging pendulum has stopped.

    So was there time, before I tapped the table with the pen?
    And, before the pendulum began to swing?

    If you combine this with the idea that all atoms are moving or vibrating transfering energy and electrons between each other (even when the object as a whole is stationary), then even if you had not started the tapping in the first place there would still be time, just not measurable to the five major human senses.
    You've answered your own questions, sort of. Time only exists as a mathematical quantity used as a measuring device. It exists if we take the measurement.

    I believe time is proportional to the observer (individual) and the speed at which they are traveling within regards to their direct environment. (just as light)
    So, essentially, a pendulum or tapping of a pen, would slow relative to the observer who may be traveling at a different speed, hence you would obserce time slowing.

    As 425 Chaotic Requisition states: "Time is change"
    No. change is change. Time is the measuring of those changes.
    I apologise, my metaphor was just as crude and explained no better my understanding of time.
    I am trying to say that time does exist, as an instrument to explain the relationship between one state to another and from one destination to another. To try to explain precisely how something happens without time, how something is and then is not. Or turns from something into something else, to get from one place to another without this man made measuring device, is to take the jouney out of the destination.
    I agree with you that time does not affect the way things are themselves but is a means to explain the way it happens. Without this manmade TIME(I find it funny that animals know when to migrate, breed and everything else they do in relation to time, yet it is man made!), things would still be as they are.
    Without this time, how do you explain the journey?

    Before the first person to invent time, to make the connection between light and dark, the movement of the sun, moon and stars through the sky, the seasons, was there not time?

    How do you become consciously unaware of time?
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    I am trying to say that time does exist, as an instrument to explain the relationship between one state to another and from one destination to another. To try to explain precisely how something happens without time, how something is and then is not.
    Physical changes from one state to another does not mean time exists. It is simply our method of measuring those changes.

    Without this manmade TIME(I find it funny that animals know when to migrate, breed and everything else they do in relation to time, yet it is man made!), things would still be as they are.
    Without this time, how do you explain the journey?
    They place pop-up reminders in their Outlook calendars. No, animals do not relate to time, they relate to the physical changes in states.

    Before the first person to invent time, to make the connection between light and dark, the movement of the sun, moon and stars through the sky, the seasons, was there not time?
    If time was a way to measure changes and no one had yet thought of or made this tool, then time as we know it did not exist. Physical changes in states existed as they do today. It's just that no one had yet created a tool to measure them.

    How do you become consciously unaware of time?
    Sit through a chick flick.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    I am trying to say that time does exist, as an instrument to explain the relationship between one state to another and from one destination to another. To try to explain precisely how something happens without time, how something is and then is not.
    Physical changes from one state to another does not mean time exists. It is simply our method of measuring those changes.

    Without this manmade TIME(I find it funny that animals know when to migrate, breed and everything else they do in relation to time, yet it is man made!), things would still be as they are.
    Without this time, how do you explain the journey?
    They place pop-up reminders in their Outlook calendars. No, animals do not relate to time, they relate to the physical changes in states.

    Before the first person to invent time, to make the connection between light and dark, the movement of the sun, moon and stars through the sky, the seasons, was there not time?
    If time was a way to measure changes and no one had yet thought of or made this tool, then time as we know it did not exist. Physical changes in states existed as they do today. It's just that no one had yet created a tool to measure them.

    How do you become consciously unaware of time?
    Sit through a chick flick.
    Q!, I think you might have handed me my own ass!

    I agree with you that time essentially is not real (man's invention to measure change)! Yet I find myself not feeling right with this agreement!

    I know that for man to make sense of something, there must be some kind of understanding ((within context!)(Dispite how abstract it is to someone else)). You may call this FAITH?

    If you and I agree that time is a measurement that humans have invented to understand change (meaning, the measurement of time is the measurment of change!?)
    Then is time not change?
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    If you and I agree that time is a measurement that humans have invented to understand change (meaning, the measurement of time is the measurment of change!?)
    Then is time not change?
    By jove, I think you've got it.
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  30. #29 Re: time 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Tap a pen on the table, rhythmically. You've just created "time." Although crude in it's accuracy, that method can be used for measuring.
    I like that answer. Try shorter and longer pens (with shorter and longer hands). Their time is generally consistent with their scale. So is time an expression of scale?
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  31. #30  
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    I don't believe that time is well understood and find it difficult to accept the idea that time is a "human invention".
    Numbers are a very useful and practical tool but they are also abstract entities created by humans.
    If time is purely a human invention, to measure change, how does one explain the fact that time is affected by speed as an individual, travelling at 99% light speed, will not experience any difference in the passing of time but around 7 years will have passed on Earth for every year on the starship?
    If time is a product of the human mind then it should not be affected by speed or anything else in the physical world-or have I got that wrong?
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  32. #31  
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    As much as it pains me to say this, Q is talking complete sense. Damn you.

    Time itself changes space, therefore we can only detect change because time exists, therefore we use time to recognise that time changes, therefore it is a measurement for change. Just as meters are measurements for space.
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    time is not just something that humans invented to better manage activities and better evaluate the circulation of the earth around the sun or the sun around the earth ot whatever.
    It is the comparison of change and speed between two or more objects.
    I use objects as a general term do the infinitism of matter. If there were one single particle of anything (ie. an object) in teh universe, and it was the existing thing in the universe, including energy, then time would be erelevant . This is, however, a sort of double standard. in my saying this i have also explained how subjectified time can be. If you have two guys (or girlies) in a room doing stuff, any random stuff, and one guy says, " I took three higlies (this is a made up measurement of time, used to make a point) to put away all my pens." then the other guy says, " no, you took 49555 goops to put away all of your pens." so you see, that time does exist, but it's measurement is hardly acurrate, because, it does not matter how we measure time, which is what you dunces have been argueing about, it matters that time is passing at all and we only have so much of it, so instead of wasting all our time arguing about it, we should be doing something for everyone else, everything else, or just something for yourself.
    Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz
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  34. #33  
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    Time is change, and time as we classify it, is just a definition.
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