Notices
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Hitler: The epitome of transference

  1. #1 Hitler: The epitome of transference 
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    924
    Hitler: The epitome of transference

    I have recently watched “The Nazis: A Warning from History”. This series of DVDs makes it perfectly clear that the Germany population were handmaidens of Hitler. Hitler and the civilian population had a symbiotic relationship that provides the embodiment of the Freudian theory of transference on both the individual and on the group level.

    Freud was the first to focus upon the phenomenon of a patient’s inclination to transfer the feelings s/he had toward her parents as a child to the physician. The patient distorts the perception of the physician; s/he enlarges the figure up far out of reason and becomes dependent upon him. In this transference of feeling, which the patient had for his parents, to the physician the grown person displays all the characteristics of the child at heart, a child who distorts reality in order to relieve his helplessness and fears.

    Freud saw these transference phenomena as the form of human suggestibility that makes the control over another, as displayed by hypnosis, as being possible. Hypnosis seems mysterious and mystifying to us only because we hide our slavish need for authority from our self. We live the big lie, which lay within this need to submit our self slavishly to another, because we want to think of our self as self-determined and independent in judgment and choice.

    The predisposition to hypnosis is identical to that which gives rise to transference and it is characteristic of all sapiens. We could not function as adults if we retained this submissive attitude to our parents, however, this attitude of submissiveness, as noted by Ferenczi, is “The need to be subject to someone remains; only the part of the father is transferred to teachers, superiors, impressive personalities; the submissive loyalty to rulers that is so widespread is also a transference of this sort.”

    Freud saw immediately that when caught up in groups wo/man became dependent children once again. They abandoned their individual egos for that of the leader; they identified with their leader and proceeded to function with him as their ideal. Freud identified man, not as a herd animal but as a horde (teeming crowd) animal that is led by a chief. Wo/man has an insatiable need for authority.

    People have an insatiable need to be hypnotized by authority; they seek a magical protection as when they were infants protected by their mother. This is the force that acts to hold groups together, intertwined within a mutually constructed but often mindless interdependence. This mindless group think also builds a feeling of potency. The members feel a sense of unity within the grasp of their leadership.

    What do the following entities have in common: fascism, capitalism, communism, political parties, and religions? They all have a common characteristic that can be called “group mind”.

    What is striking is that members of these entities often undergo a major change in behavior just by being members of such entities. Under certain conditions individuals who become members of these groups behave differently than they would as individuals. These individuals acquire the characteristics of a ‘psychological group’.

    What is the nature of the ‘group mind’, i.e. the mental changes such individuals undergo as a result of becoming a group?


    A bond develops much like cells which constitute a living body—group mind is more of an unconscious than a conscious force—there are motives for action that elude conscious attention—distinctiveness and individuality become group behavior based upon unconscious motives—there develops a sentiment of invincible power, anonymous and irresponsible attitudes--repressions of unconscious forces under normal situations are ignored—conscience which results from social anxiety disappear.

    Contagion sets in—hypnotic order becomes prevalent—individuals sacrifice personal interest for the group interest.

    Suggestibility, of which contagion is a symptom, leads to the lose of conscious personality—the individual follows suggestions for actions totally contradictory to person conscience—hypnotic like fascination sets in—will and discernment vanishes—direction is taken from the leader in an hypnotic like manner—the conscious personality disappears.

    “Moreover, by the mere fact that he forms part of an organized group, a man descends several rungs in the ladder of civilization.” Isolated, he may be a cultivated individual; in a crowd, he is a barbarian—a creature acting by instinct. “He possesses the spontaneity, the violence, the ferocity, and also the enthusiasm and heroism of primitive beings.”

    There is a lowering of intellectual ability “pointing to its similarity with the mental life of primitive people and of children…A group is credulous and easily influenced”—the improbable seldom exists—they think in images—feelings are very simple and exaggerated—the group knows neither doubt nor uncertainty—extremes are prevalent, antipathy becomes hate and suspicion becomes certainty.

    Force is king—force is respected and obeyed without question—kindness is weakness—tradition is triumphant—words have a magical power—supernatural powers are easily accepted—groups never thirst for truth, they demand illusions—the unreal receives precedence over the real—the group is an obedient herd—prestige is a source for domination, however it “is also dependent upon success, and is lost in the event of failure”.

    ‘Why are groups so blind and stupid?’ Freud asked; and he replied that mankind lived by self delusion. They “constantly give what is unreal precedence over what is real.” The real world is too frightening to behold; delusion changes this by making sapiens seem important. This explains the terrible sadism we see in group activity.

    Quotes are from Freud and his book “Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego”. I discovered that Freud had turned to the Frenchman Gustave Le Bon for empirical data on group behavior.

    Gustave Le Bon was a French social psychologist, sociologist, and amateur physicist. His work on crowd psychology became important in the first half of the twentieth century. Le Bon was one of the great popularizers of theories of the unconscious at a critical moment in the formation of new theories of sociology.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    ehh seems to have a very post-modern tone, and i don't know why people still source Freud when talking about hitler. how does the movie incorporate the rise of fascism in europe with this psychological analysis?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    924
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    ehh seems to have a very post-modern tone, and i don't know why people still source Freud when talking about hitler. how does the movie incorporate the rise of fascism in europe with this psychological analysis?
    Psychology was branded as a Jewish Science in Hitler's Germany.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Any current argument resorting to outmoded, discarded Freudian theory leads me to reject it out of hand.

    Edited to correct typographical error.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    yeah i have to agree just the word transference in the title indicates Freuds ideas are involved and the documentary seems to ignore everything else in Germany other than Hitler in the rise of Fascism and later the Nazi Party
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore Skiyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    176
    It's annoying how one man has caused us to view Germany in such a bad way. Many have to admit that when thinking about Germany, we tend to focus on WWII and the Holocaust.
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Scie...inking_eye.gif
    E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    i dont believe Hitler was the sole cause of either or even the major cause
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    924
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    i dont believe Hitler was the sole cause of either or even the major cause
    Learning history is very important. From studying the past we can better understand the present and prepare for the future. There is a saying about the failure to learn from the mistakes of the past leads us to repeating it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    i dont believe Hitler was the sole cause of either or even the major cause
    Learning history is very important. From studying the past we can better understand the present and prepare for the future. There is a saying about the failure to learn from the mistakes of the past leads us to repeating it.
    Yes true

    But unfortunately even when there is an awareness of the mistakes of the past they still keep getting made.

    How come Bush got in again the last time for example?????

    How come they are STILL tearing down the rain forests???
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore Skiyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    176
    We are sacrificing our planet for unrequired luxuries
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Scie...inking_eye.gif
    E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    Hitler was swept up into the excitement of Fascism the same way many other people were, the whole idea of the will of the people, the new man, transcending their current place in history, futurism and nietzche. He was part of this grand movement
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    924
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    i dont believe Hitler was the sole cause of either or even the major cause
    Learning history is very important. From studying the past we can better understand the present and prepare for the future. There is a saying about the failure to learn from the mistakes of the past leads us to repeating it.
    Yes true

    But unfortunately even when there is an awareness of the mistakes of the past they still keep getting made.

    How come Bush got in again the last time for example?????

    How come they are STILL tearing down the rain forests???
    Because our citizens lack the intellectual sophistication required to pick better leaders. Our citizens must become self-actualizing self-learners.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    924
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    Hitler was swept up into the excitement of Fascism the same way many other people were, the whole idea of the will of the people, the new man, transcending their current place in history, futurism and nietzche. He was part of this grand movement
    I think that you have been reading the wrong history books.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    i dont believe Hitler was the sole cause of either or even the major cause
    Learning history is very important. From studying the past we can better understand the present and prepare for the future. There is a saying about the failure to learn from the mistakes of the past leads us to repeating it.
    Yes true

    But unfortunately even when there is an awareness of the mistakes of the past they still keep getting made.

    How come Bush got in again the last time for example?????

    How come they are STILL tearing down the rain forests???
    Because our citizens lack the intellectual sophistication required to pick better leaders. Our citizens must become self-actualizing self-learners.
    We can only hope.

    Leaders are also liars, and citizens must always try to stay one step ahead and be smarter than their leaders in order not to be duped and mis-led.

    The problem with this is the economy, which is always maintained so that most of the citizens either have to slog their guts out to live and don't have time or energy left to self-learn, or they are so poor all their focus is on just getting the basics to survive.

    Money and the economy is a man-made invention and guess who invented it? And guess who maintains it's levels?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore Skiyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    176
    It's not to do with the voter's stupidity. It's that Hitler was a very motivating speaker and he did bring Germany out of its poverty before WWII. All in all he was mad but he did save and destroy Germany.
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Scie...inking_eye.gif
    E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Skiyk
    It's not to do with the voter's stupidity. It's that Hitler was a very motivating speaker and he did bring Germany out of its poverty before WWII. All in all he was mad but he did save and destroy Germany.
    He also gave us some good examples of how a leader should not lead, how people can be so easily led and certain beliefs and psychology which can lead to genocide and war crimes.

    He certainly gave the philosopher, the psychologists, the historians, the anthropologists as well as many others much food for thought........so there is always a positive which can be got from a negative and we can only hope mankind has learned a lesson from it and it will never happen again
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Sophomore Skiyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    176
    Well if you are religious it will. Then again, I'm sure we thought that after Napoleon, we were done then he came along. Also, Osama seems to be tearing up the place right now and Saddam did too. We'll never learn.
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Scie...inking_eye.gif
    E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Skiyk
    Well if you are religious it will. Then again, I'm sure we thought that after Napoleon, we were done then he came along. Also, Osama seems to be tearing up the place right now and Saddam did too. We'll never learn.
    Woa... hang on a minute!

    Tearing up the place?

    The USA has done the most tearing up on the planet in the last century!
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •