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Thread: Is Homosexuality wrong?

  1. #1 Is Homosexuality wrong? 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Ever walked the street and seen a homosexual (this being noticed by the way the dress etc), and they give you a look like the opposite member of the sex would? I find it revolting and sick. I literally felt violated that someone could have those thoughts about me. Homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose and one cannot carry on their genes, so why do people do this and carry on being that way? Personally there are a number of ways of looking at this argument in the perception of 'wrong'. But in everyway i find it wrong, pure and utter wrong, and how can you tell a homosexual to get lost politly? So far mine is fu<k off you motherfu<ikng disgusting evil sadist. I honestly feel this way. It is the last thing in my life that I have to accept. I am religious and have put aside jealousy, nearly anger and all that but this is the last great thing to overcome. How would you feel if someone came along to you of the same sex and had dirty perverted thoughts? (You can tell they do by the way they walk, move, talk and everything else, its sick).


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  3. #2  
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    I just don't care, their life, not mine.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I just don't care, their life, not mine.
    I find it insulting though that they have the right to look at me with desire the way they do. It infringes on my self respect, honour and dignity.

    PS If you don't care how can you say God doesn't care? That disregards you from being able to state that in the first place for you are contradicting yourself. No offense there Obviously :wink:.
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  5. #4  
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    Yet life is life and everyone has the right to live it the way they please.

    How can I be contradicting myself btw?
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Yet life is life and everyone has the right to live it the way they please.

    How can I be contradicting myself btw?
    You said on chat yesterday that God does not care, so how can you say that you don't care? Again, no offense :wink:.
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  7. #6  
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    Yeah, but how can my opinion on God and me not caring about homosexuality be contradictory? :?

    That doesn't make much sense.
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  8. #7  
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    Most things don't . So why exactly don't you care about them being homosexuality? Are you at all bothered when one walks past you and gives that certain thought about you? Doesn't it at least make you somewhat cringe?
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  9. #8  
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    I guess it's flattering or wierd. But then again, caring about what other people think of you is a little selfish (according to my philosophy anyway).
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I guess it's flattering. But then again, caring about what other people think of you is a little selfish (according to my philosophy anyway).
    So if someone thinks that they don't like your or something like that, would you care about that? I mean wouldn't it bother you if you had to deal with them everyday? What if it became more intiamte and closer and thats when you'd have to tell a homosexual to go away (that being very polite, God could'nt do any better). Caring about what someone else thinks of you should be a natural thing we do, as it helps us ask questions like 'what am I doing that is drawing them to me', or 'what am I doing to push them away'. I'm always thinking and always wondering what people think of me, I want to know because if I'm being too good or too bad I'd like to know and care about that so I can make myself a better person for them.
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  11. #10  
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    It's a natural thing, yes, but everything in moderation. Just don't care too much or too little what people think of you. If a homosexual ever approached me and started flirting or whatever I'd give a clear message "I'm straight. Either get away from me or stop flirting!"
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  12. #11  
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    Maybe you find it that way, cause of not being comfortable with your sexuality? :wink:

    Then again, im not homophobic

    Change that statement and say, "does anyone else feel uncomfortable if a black male looks at you in a certain way" can you see the similarity? look at your initial post and see thats just a pure homophopic rant and in this day of age is no better than racism, sexism or ageism, never mind

    surely that must be a clear breach of forum rules, whats you next post going to be, antisemitic? sexism? racism?
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  13. #12  
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    Homosexuality is just a bad mutaition.
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  14. #13  
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    Hmm. Perhaps, svwillmer, you now understand how many a woman would feel if a strange man leered and ogled at her as she walked down the street. Or how she would feel if a perverted, sex-crazed man approached and aggressively flirted with her.

    You are applying fears to a specific group of people as if only they, and every single one of them, act and think that way. Some most certainly do. But so do many straight men. And it can make women just as uncomfortable as you described feeling in your first post. No normal person enjoys have some pervert come on to them. But homosexuals are not inherently perverts.

    I have reasons to suspect that a certain degree of homosexual attraction may in fact be natural, anyway. I've described them before so I won't go into it unless asked, but long story short, I find the non-reproductive excuse to call homosexuality evil to be a very empty one. Humans exhibit many behaviors that do not seem to promote reproduction, and they are no more evil than homosexuality.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  15. #14  
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    Svwillmer, i'll settle this right now. Jesus said, "love thy neighbor" so get down and start "loving" thy neighbor like Jesus had said. Stop thinking Jesus is wrong in what he said and stop calling these men evil sadists... Remember, your a man of god. Start acting like it.
    Besides homosexuallity is not a sin, it is not evil. Half the priests in the catholic church are gay, and they still find Jesus blessing... The other half are pedofiles... or both!
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Svwillmer, i'll settle this right now. Jesus said, "love thy neighbor" so get down and start "loving" thy neighbor like Jesus had said. Stop thinking Jesus is wrong in what he said and stop calling these men evil sadists... Remember, your a man of god. Start acting like it.
    Besides homosexuallity is not a sin, it is not evil. Half the priests in the catholic church are gay, and they still find Jesus blessing... The other half are pedofiles... or both!
    Oh a lesson in being God like from mister 'Religion causes all the problems'. I said it was the last thing for me to tolerate.

    Thanks Paralith for that response, I understand better now.

    Caveman I fell violated when men look at me like that, sickened. It is not racism or anything like that, that is a preference. I don't mind different skinned people. When it affects me and my self respect I HAVE THE RIGHT to think what I want. Its a free world, and free as it may be to be a homosexual fine, just don't bother me with it and I won't bother them. I never confront them, just silently suffer, or if one comes on to me or starts flirting I lock up and frown like the devil and look really pissed using BL. It wasn't a rant caveman, just my opinion, next time you go on about atheism in the same way I'll call it a rant too shall I?

    verzen your generalisation is very illogical.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Caveman I fell violated when men look at me like that, sickened. It is not racism or anything like that, that is a preference. I don't mind different skinned people. When it affects me and my self respect I HAVE THE RIGHT to think what I want. Its a free world, and free as it may be to be a homosexual fine, just don't bother me with it and I won't bother them. I never confront them, just silently suffer, or if one comes on to me or starts flirting I lock up and frown like the devil and look really pissed using BL. It wasn't a rant caveman, just my opinion, next time you go on about atheism in the same way I'll call it a rant too shall I?
    The point, svwillmer, is that your opinion involved calling all homosexuals evil and disgusting because some homosexual men find you attractive. This is the same as a woman calling all men evil because men that she's not interested in find her attractive. This is the same as verzen casting a bad name on catholicism in general because some priests are pedophiles, even though there are plenty of pedophiles out there who aren't catholic priests.

    It's understandable that it might make you feel a little uncomfortable (as it might make a woman feel uncomfortable), but it's not like a man who finds you attractive necessarily wants to jump you right on the spot. Besides, would you feel any less violated if you knew that a woman was looking at you and imagining doing strange and perverted things to you? And would you call all women evil because of that one's thoughts? And on the flipside, does it affect your self respect when a woman finds you attractive? Why should someone thinking you're attractive be in itself a necessarily negative thing, simply because you don't return the favor?
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  18. #17  
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    Because they are men. Disgusting is my opinion, regardless if anyone wants to take that away from me.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Because they are men. Disgusting is my opinion, regardless if anyone wants to take that away from me.
    If you personally feel disgusted when a single man flirts with you, fine. But extrapolating that disgust to apply to all homosexuals at all times and calling them evil because of it is simply illogical and incorrect, no matter if it's an opinion or not. Even that individual who flirts with you is probably a good person, who made an honest mistake in their search for a relationship, the same as a straight man trying to flirt with a woman who he does not know is married. To simply make that assumption that this man is a disgusting person in general would be the same as a married woman assuming the man flirting with her is trying to be a home-wrecker.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Because they are men. Disgusting is my opinion, regardless if anyone wants to take that away from me.
    If you personally feel disgusted when a single man flirts with you, fine. But extrapolating that disgust to apply to all homosexuals at all times and calling them evil because of it is simply illogical and incorrect, no matter if it's an opinion or not. Even that individual who flirts with you is probably a good person, who made an honest mistake in their search for a relationship, the same as a straight man trying to flirt with a woman who he does not know is married. To simply make that assumption that this man is a disgusting person in general would be the same as a married woman assuming the man flirting with her is trying to be a home-wrecker.
    I see. I have no problem if they respect my wishes as long as they don't think that way about me, it isn't very nice. I feel demeaned and lower down the chain, I don't feel as though I have authority and I would despise the idea of being called a 'bitch'. My authority is needed so I can exert influence on people, because my influence is good advice and what no, the last thing I need is my authority taking a hit.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I see. I have no problem if they respect my wishes as long as they don't think that way about me, it isn't very nice. I feel demeaned and lower down the chain, I don't feel as though I have authority and I would despise the idea of being called a 'bitch'.
    Understandable. And no one wants their wishes to be disrespected when it comes to relationships and their bodies. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be a woman's "bitch" either. Just like a woman doesn't want to thought of as some guy's bitch. But simply assuming that all anyone wants when they find you attractive is to make you their bitch is simply wrong.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I see. I have no problem if they respect my wishes as long as they don't think that way about me, it isn't very nice. I feel demeaned and lower down the chain, I don't feel as though I have authority and I would despise the idea of being called a 'bitch'.
    Understandable. And no one wants their wishes to be disrespected when it comes to relationships and their bodies. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be a woman's "bitch" either. Just like a woman doesn't want to thought of as some guy's bitch. But simply assuming that all anyone wants when they find you attractive is to make you their bitch is simply wrong.
    Agreed, but thats what outside observors would see. And I don't want that event of seeing that to occur in the first place. O mihgt just make myself invisible .
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Agreed, but thats what outside observors would see. And I don't want that event of seeing that to occur in the first place.
    Really? A gay guy comes up to you and asks if you want to get coffee, you politely decline and say you're straight, he apologizes and walks off. Perhaps I give the general populace too much credit, but I wouldn't observe that scenario and suddenly decide to call you a bitch.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Agreed, but thats what outside observors would see. And I don't want that event of seeing that to occur in the first place.
    Really? A gay guy comes up to you and asks if you want to get coffee, you politely decline and say you're straight, he apologizes and walks off. Perhaps I give the general populace too much credit, but I wouldn't observe that scenario and suddenly decide to call you a bitch.
    Some would.

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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Some would.
    And you find it necessary to get these people's highest opinions? I wouldn't think much of a person who goes around calling people bitches for no good reason.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  26. #25  
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    You'll find the average gay man will hit on a guy he thinks is gay. An honest mistake, and they feel quite embarrassed afterwards. Some even fearful, as straight men will sometimes beat a gay guy after his come on. I wouldn't like it if i flirted with a girl, who said 'fuck off, you sicko'.
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  27. #26  
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    Women will think you're a dipshit if you can't be polite about it. The only male friends you'll impress are other dipshits. Try smile, say 'sorry, i'm straight. But i'll take the beer'. Works just fine, and you get free beer.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Svwillmer, i'll settle this right now. Jesus said, "love thy neighbor" so get down and start "loving" thy neighbor like Jesus had said. Stop thinking Jesus is wrong in what he said and stop calling these men evil sadists... Remember, your a man of god. Start acting like it.
    Besides homosexuallity is not a sin, it is not evil. Half the priests in the catholic church are gay, and they still find Jesus blessing... The other half are pedofiles... or both!
    Oh a lesson in being God like from mister 'Religion causes all the problems'. I said it was the last thing for me to tolerate.

    Thanks Paralith for that response, I understand better now.

    Caveman I fell violated when men look at me like that, sickened. It is not racism or anything like that, that is a preference. I don't mind different skinned people. When it affects me and my self respect I HAVE THE RIGHT to think what I want. Its a free world, and free as it may be to be a homosexual fine, just don't bother me with it and I won't bother them. I never confront them, just silently suffer, or if one comes on to me or starts flirting I lock up and frown like the devil and look really pissed using BL. It wasn't a rant caveman, just my opinion, next time you go on about atheism in the same way I'll call it a rant too shall I?

    verzen your generalisation is very illogical.

    Yes, it is exactly the same as racism, it is fine to think these things(as a homophobic boy), but to state it on a public forum is not right, neither would racism or sexism, have you ever thought there may actuall be homosexual members on this forum?

    Only someone like you could equate a clear homobobic rant as being the same as an athiestic or theistic one, its not the same thing, theological ideas are open to criticism, race, sexuality and sex is not

    I have a friend who is homosexual, and because i am comfortable in my own hetrosexual view point, have no problem with it, even when he makes comical inuendos , thats down to maturity, understanding and being a good person

    Youve made assumptions that homosexuals(which are strangers you label by dress sense), are having sexual thoughts about yourself, that is a worrying condition that i have never personally suffered from, maybew it is the fact you are uncomfortable and confused about your own sexuality, maybe its just the nieviety of youth

    MODERATORS CAN YOU CHECK IF HOMOPHOBIA IS COVERED IN THE FORUM RULES ALONG WITH RACISM AND SEXISM?

    web definitions of homophobia:-

    The irrational fear and hatred of homosexuals and homosexual behavior. It may also indicate a fear of being gay

    Literally an uncontrollable fear of homosexuals and of homosexuality, but the term is generally used for a negative and contemptuous attitude to same-sex sexual relationships and to those who participate in them.

    the negative attitude toward women or men who choose partners of the same sex

    Just as individual people can be racial, ethnic or religious bigots, individuals can be homophobes or can suffer from homophobia. Homophobia is the irrational fear of gay people or any behaviour, belief or attitude in self or others which doesn't conform to rigid sex-role stereotypes

    The fear of homosexuals, or people thought to be lesbian, gay, or bisexual. This term is at the root of prejudice and discrimination based on an individual's sexual orientation

    Homophobia is the fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. It can also mean hatred, hostility, or disapproval of homosexual people, sexual behavior, or cultures, and is generally used to insinuate bigotry
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    I see. I have no problem if they respect my wishes as long as they don't think that way about me, it isn't very nice. I feel demeaned and lower down the chain, I don't feel as though I have authority and I would despise the idea of being called a 'bitch'. My authority is needed so I can exert influence on people, because my influence is good advice and what no, the last thing I need is my authority taking a hit.
    So you want to stop people thinking about you in a certain way not only that you want to "exert influence" on them
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  30. #29  
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    From the mouths of babes.
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    From the mouths of babes.


    meaning? whats your point?
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  32. #31  
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    Is it against the law for me to express my opinion to contribute to this discussion? I fear nor hate anything. If you don't like me being the way I am about having this opinion of homosexuals, very well. Opinion erradicated.

    I no longer hold the opinion that is mentioned before and from now on adapt my opinion to satisfy paraliths, for hers is the most logical and humain.

    Old opinion erased.
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    One man's free expression is another man's homophobic hate speech. Freedom of expression may allow you to say as you please, but others are free to react as they please. If people don't like your opinion on homosexuality, they're free to tell you to piss off.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Is it against the law for me to express my opinion to contribute to this discussion? I fear nor hate anything. If you don't like me being the way I am about having this opinion of homosexuals, very well. Opinion erradicated.

    I no longer hold the opinion that is mentioned before and from now on adapt my opinion to satisfy paraliths, for hers is the most logical and humain.

    Old opinion erased.
    What im actually saying is, many forums have rules regarding certain topics, its to stop neo nazis spilling race hate across forums, many forums, that also applies to the equally biggotted homophobic views or similar

    You are welcome to your own views, but this is a public forum and usually that means keep race and sexuality prejudices private

    Im not sure where the forum rules are that apply to this(if there are any?) but i believe its just common descency that stops this kind of thing usually


    There have been previous threads on "is sexuality natural" etc but there is a difference between that, and a quote like this

    So far mine is fu<k off you motherfu<ikng disgusting evil sadist
    I dont know the sexual orientation of every member on this forum, but i have the common descency to repect fellow members race, sex, age and sexuality

    The above comment, is on an equal par with any neo nazi statement ive ever had the misfortune of reading, but then i put my fellow man before any dogmatic teachings of some fictional text
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  35. #34  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Is it against the law for me to express my opinion to contribute to this discussion? I fear nor hate anything. If you don't like me being the way I am about having this opinion of homosexuals, very well. Opinion erradicated.
    svwillmer, you must be very naive. What exactly did you expect, posting an opinion as offensive as your initial one on a discussion forum that you are well aware is populated by a lot of very liberal people? And "I fear nor hate aything"? Come on, now. "f*ck off you motherf*ucking disgusting evil sadist" sounds like fear and hate to me, with a healthy dose of anger added to it.

    Besides, whether or not a statement is an opinion, it can still be wrong. Your opinion involved assumptions and stereotypes and ridiculous extrapolations. And like TvEye said, if you're free to say it, we're free to argue with you about it.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    I have just read this thread & have to say to svwillmer that I am disgusted at you for your views, you have no genuine reason to dislike homosexuals, your evolutionary reasons are nonsensical; humans dont have natural selection like the remainder of animals. As for your not liking them when you see them in the streets that is irrational & you have no right to judge or dislike them. They cause no harm by there orientation & there have been many who have made huge contributions to society. You on the other hand... dont you love jesus more than life itself???!!!

    You may also want to have a look at Calvin Thomas & Freud's explanations for homophobia!
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Is it against the law for me to express my opinion to contribute to this discussion? I fear nor hate anything. If you don't like me being the way I am about having this opinion of homosexuals, very well. Opinion erradicated.
    svwillmer, you must be very naive. What exactly did you expect, posting an opinion as offensive as your initial one on a discussion forum that you are well aware is populated by a lot of very liberal people? And "I fear nor hate aything"? Come on, now. "f*ck off you motherf*ucking disgusting evil sadist" sounds like fear and hate to me, with a healthy dose of anger added to it.

    Besides, whether or not a statement is an opinion, it can still be wrong. Your opinion involved assumptions and stereotypes and ridiculous extrapolations. And like TvEye said, if you're free to say it, we're free to argue with you about it.
    I think the problem lies in that it was not sv's opinion. Although I know opinion can be swayed or influenced by the written word there is no substitute for an open mind.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  38. #37  
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    If there are any homosexual or bi-sexual members, i would like to apologise for the comments of sv, as we are not all this bigoted to peoples sexuality

    One question for sv, on this comment

    Ever walked the street and seen a homosexual (this being noticed by the way the dress etc),
    how exactly do you notice someones sexuality by their dress sense?

    Im genuinely interested in the answer :-D
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    Steven,

    Do you attribute your views to some formative event, or to personal 'wiring,' or to indoctrination, or to anything in particular?

    Whether intentionally or not, you've raised some interesting points - tho' probably not the ones you intended. If a person has an irrational fear of heights, for example, it may perhaps be traceable to some formative event or it may simply be genetic (I suppose.) In any case, such a view would not be harassed by others - because 'heights' do not have rights to dignity as homosexuals (and heterosexuals) do.

    If some event had shaped your views, say you had been abused by a paedophile when you were a tot, your comments would be viewed in a different light. That is interesting.

    That some members are assuming the basis for your views is also interesting. It arguably makes evolutionary sense for homophobia to have some selective advantage, although tolerance would also have other selective advantage.

    Homosexuality is not wrong. Homophobia is also not wrong. To impose a homosexual tendency on the unwilling is wrong. To impose a homophobbic view on others is wrong.

    Is heterosexuality wrong? It is the basis of a great many problems on the planet (overpopulation for starters.)
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by free radical
    Steven,

    Do you attribute your views to some formative event, or to personal 'wiring,' or to indoctrination, or to anything in particular?

    Whether intentionally or not, you've raised some interesting points - tho' probably not the ones you intended. If a person has an irrational fear of heights, for example, it may perhaps be traceable to some formative event or it may simply be genetic (I suppose.) In any case, such a view would not be harassed by others - because 'heights' do not have rights to dignity as homosexuals (and heterosexuals) do.

    If some event had shaped your views, say you had been abused by a paedophile when you were a tot, your comments would be viewed in a different light. That is interesting.

    That some members are assuming the basis for your views is also interesting. It arguably makes evolutionary sense for homophobia to have some selective advantage, although tolerance would also have other selective advantage.

    Homosexuality is not wrong. Homophobia is also not wrong. To impose a homosexual tendency on the unwilling is wrong. To impose a homophobbic view on others is wrong.

    Is heterosexuality wrong? It is the basis of a great many problems on the planet (overpopulation for starters.)
    A homophobic view is not wrong, in the same way as a racist view is not wrong also(eg a personal aversion to a particular group), with what i mean is you cannot respect/accept one persons predjucices without giving the same respect/acceptance to anothers(in the moral sense)


    but it also depends on your definition of homophobia

    used to describe the fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.[5][6] It can also mean hatred, hostility, disapproval of, or prejudice towards homosexuals, or homosexual behavior or cultures
    Its when either those views are predudiced and as you say imposed, the issue is different, to pre-judge anyone based on their differences is wrong in my opinion, and i also find it hard for someone to accept discrimination against homosexuals for instance and then try and achieve a moral high ground in any other area of discrimination eg racism or sexism

    to me prejudging is prejudging
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    OK then everyone I'm sorry for any insults I may have meant and have just realised something. Jesus is in homosexual people as well. So I love them too as any other and hold no nasty opinion against them any furthur.

    How do you notice homosexuality by their dress sense caveman? The same way you tell if someone is a greb, a goth, a punk. Each group has its own dress style, I'm sure your old enough to know how homosexual male and females dress, at least you've seen it through the media yes?

    As I say again:

    I apologise

    On a personal note in my defence, it doesn't help when people make wrong judgements on my posts so that it twists my responses. In 2nd defence its ok for a lot of you to say that religion causes problems in the world and that millions of people die, and that it is an illusion and that you are ilogical, unintelligent and all that crap for believing in religion, its ok for you all to say that though isn't it? Religion is a group as is homosexuals, nut no leway can be given to religious beleivers THAT is discrimination. No offense to some of you here, just making a few generalisations here, *COUGH* caveman.
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    Ah its alright!
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    If you view the results for this poll, you'll see the one vote that says 'maybe', that was me after I posted the original topic. Voting on my own poll .
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    How do you notice homosexuality by their dress sense caveman? The same way you tell if someone is a greb, a goth, a punk. Each group has its own dress style, I'm sure your old enough to know how homosexual male and females dress, at least you've seen it through the media yes?


    well that is probably the funniest, most nieve thing ive ever heard, have you ever met anyone who was gay?

    well my friend is a gay metal head, his partner is an armani suit wearing property developer, no there isn't a certain way that homosexuals dress, thats just stereotyping what you percieve as a homosexuals dress sense

    Please clarify this "dress sense", heres a list to clarify whos famous and homosexual, this is a fascinating insight :wink:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...isexual_people

    On a personal note in my defence, it doesn't help when people make wrong judgements on my posts so that it twists my responses. In 2nd defence its ok for a lot of you to say that religion causes problems in the world and that millions of people die, and that it is an illusion and that you are ilogical, unintelligent and all that crap for believing in religion, its ok for you all to say that though isn't it? Religion is a group as is homosexuals, nut no leway can be given to religious beleivers THAT is discrimination. No offense to some of you here, just making a few generalisations here, *COUGH* caveman
    can i ask how people made wrong judgements on this remark?

    So far mine is fu<k off you motherfu<ikng disgusting evil sadist


    Agreed, to discriminate against a religious group is no different and terrible, but dont confuse a disagreement with certain people theologys and individual mindsets as a blanket discrimination of all in that group


    Yeah islam is a disgusting backwards religion, along with christianity, but dont for one moment think I would discriminate all muslims or christians into one catagory, thats your job :wink:

    was it you who said

    Why are atheists angry?
    and then after people mentioned your generalisation you changed that to



    I mean young atheists to correct that
    generalising again :wink:

    if you look in the religious section at threads i have started, they point to theism and not thiests, they are not personal


    Im friends with vicars, satanists, homosexual men and women, hindus, buddists, jews, goths, punks, bikers, etc etc i dont care about putting people into little stereotypical boxes to discriminate on behalf of a god that doesn't exist :wink:
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    OK then everyone I'm sorry for any insults I may have meant and have just realised something. Jesus is in homosexual people as well. So I love them too as any other and hold no nasty opinion against them any furthur.
    Was jesus in Hitler, Fred West, Charles Manson, Pol Pot etc etc, and was that in an equal or lesser degree than others?
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    I know quite a few gay people and they stand out enough to be noticed. Their body language is usually effemenitive as well. I have to generalise, thats the point of statistically averaging results to gain a broader more logical perspective of certain ideologies.

    As for Hitler and the others you mentioned, Jesus was in them as well regardless of what they did. I'm sure they did some good in their life, obviously it seems as though bad had the majority however.
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    Hitler was catholic. He believed he was doing god's work by wiping out jews and homosexuals. Read some of his speeches. Read mein kampf. 'i am acting as an agent of the lord'
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Svwillmer, i'll settle this right now. Jesus said, "love thy neighbor" so get down and start "loving" thy neighbor like Jesus had said. Stop thinking Jesus is wrong in what he said and stop calling these men evil sadists... Remember, your a man of god. Start acting like it.
    Besides homosexuallity is not a sin, it is not evil. Half the priests in the catholic church are gay, and they still find Jesus blessing... The other half are pedofiles... or both!
    Oh a lesson in being God like from mister 'Religion causes all the problems'. I said it was the last thing for me to tolerate.

    Thanks Paralith for that response, I understand better now.

    Caveman I fell violated when men look at me like that, sickened. It is not racism or anything like that, that is a preference. I don't mind different skinned people. When it affects me and my self respect I HAVE THE RIGHT to think what I want. Its a free world, and free as it may be to be a homosexual fine, just don't bother me with it and I won't bother them. I never confront them, just silently suffer, or if one comes on to me or starts flirting I lock up and frown like the devil and look really pissed using BL. It wasn't a rant caveman, just my opinion, next time you go on about atheism in the same way I'll call it a rant too shall I?

    verzen your generalisation is very illogical.
    How it is very illogical? To me you seem disgusted by their acts, but your the one making a big deal out of it. They can't change your behavior and the fact that you insist that it's a sin or that they are wrong and that they disgust you means that you are not loving them like Jesus wanted you to.
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Svwillmer, i'll settle this right now. Jesus said, "love thy neighbor" so get down and start "loving" thy neighbor like Jesus had said. Stop thinking Jesus is wrong in what he said and stop calling these men evil sadists... Remember, your a man of god. Start acting like it.
    Besides homosexuallity is not a sin, it is not evil. Half the priests in the catholic church are gay, and they still find Jesus blessing... The other half are pedofiles... or both!
    Oh a lesson in being God like from mister 'Religion causes all the problems'. I said it was the last thing for me to tolerate.

    Thanks Paralith for that response, I understand better now.

    Caveman I fell violated when men look at me like that, sickened. It is not racism or anything like that, that is a preference. I don't mind different skinned people. When it affects me and my self respect I HAVE THE RIGHT to think what I want. Its a free world, and free as it may be to be a homosexual fine, just don't bother me with it and I won't bother them. I never confront them, just silently suffer, or if one comes on to me or starts flirting I lock up and frown like the devil and look really pissed using BL. It wasn't a rant caveman, just my opinion, next time you go on about atheism in the same way I'll call it a rant too shall I?

    verzen your generalisation is very illogical.
    How it is very illogical? To me you seem disgusted by their acts, but your the one making a big deal out of it. They can't change your behavior and the fact that you insist that it's a sin or that they are wrong and that they disgust you means that you are not loving them like Jesus wanted you to.
    I have changed that opinion since then after being enlightened by other members of this forum. :

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...r=asc&start=30

    Look about half to two thirds down for: I apologise.

    I still have my moments :wink:.
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Hitler was catholic. He believed he was doing god's work by wiping out jews and homosexuals. Read some of his speeches. Read mein kampf. 'i am acting as an agent of the lord'
    I hope that was an exuse Hitler came up with because if it wasn't, then oh dear. We're getting off topic here anyway :wink:.
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    No, it wasn't an excuse hitler came up with. i believe it was jan michael vincent of airwolf fame -pretending- to be hitler.
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  52. #51 stop dogging the guy 
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    I don't believe the point of this post is to instigate a moral sanction a kin to the halocaust. I believe what the guy is asking is whether or not an internal or biologically inherited moral stance (which I believe all morality is derived from. Example; Hitler killed large multitudes of people, the threat that his moral stance poses is, therefor, percieved of as wrong. I think Nietsche's immoralist stance is largely based off this knowledge) should be heeded or negated as a blind biological code.

    Do not negate a question by dogging the asker with his incapacity to be anything more then what is to be expected of him. This man (assuming he is male) is probably not Hitler. He will probably not kill all the homosexuals. And, even if he does intend to do so, you would be better off informing him of a more poinent rationality as to why homosexuals are not simply evil. As opposed to referencing his evil of being hitler, and trying to effectively squelch the question.

    It is an honest question. This comment pertaines to all conceptual narcassisms (name dropping to negate thought); do not assume the asker has the misintent that has existed before (hitler in this case). You negate thought, and, in this case, you negate a poinient rationality against homophobia by means of the hippocracy of assuming he is evil for such a stance.

    There is no good and evil beyond the biological mind. Pathology is not omnipotent. It has the capacity to evolve and change, as a biological organ (granted it takes generations). By lumping this man into a certain group of pathology (hitler) you will only suceed in perpetuating pathology it's self (an overgeneralizing tool, in my opinion). Yes, this is a rant, but not without poinency.

    :-D :? 8) :x :P :wink:
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    I believe I made the basis for my stance on gays clear. I take it as flattering that I should be percieved of as attractive by any organism. Whether or not I believe they are attractive in return is another story. I believe that homosexual sex is a somewhat unattractive prospect for me (granted I'm sure I would be capable of getting off thereby, possibly making it worthwhile, and thus attractive) but as far as my desire for a male for the purpose of birthing a healthy infant, it would be a lie, and thereby it is unattractive.

    As a side note, I don't think homosexuality is as much of byproduct of evolution, as much as it is a byproduct of social dominance (notably a byproduct of evolution, however, social dominance is not always derived from an organisms capacity to survive, but often, less survival pertinant codes) and the capacity to fool ones evolved desire and cum in a mans bum.
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  54. #53 Re: stop dogging the guy 
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    No, captaincaveman posed the question 'was jesus in hitler, pol pot...', to which i replied that hitler was catholic. Because it was mildly interesting.
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    After last night folks being attractive to men has its benefits, believe it or not, I didn't pay for a single drink last night! Thanks you guys!

    PS God's done it again for me .
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    It's wrong, there is a flaw in their genes which makes them believe they like the same sex, if for example they were born the opposing gender I still believe they would seek out the same sex, mostly due to this flaw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sderenzi
    It's wrong, there is a flaw in their genes which makes them believe they like the same sex
    Without even getting into the gay gene debate: Your logic refutes itself. You claim that it's purely genetic. Therefore it cannot be "wrong". You cannot say that being black is wrong. He simply has different genetics.

    Even if you want to mouth off about it being a flaw, rather than a difference, then let's have a look at Y-linked disorders, like male infertility. This is a genetic flaw, yet I cannot call a sterile male "wrong". How about colour blindness. Do you pass moral judgement on the colour blind? Do you pass moral judgement on anemics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sderenzi
    It's wrong, there is a flaw in their genes which makes them believe they like the same sex, if for example they were born the opposing gender I still believe they would seek out the same sex, mostly due to this flaw.
    Thank heavens most of us have the right gene, to make us believe we like the other sex.

    /sarcasm
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  59. #58  
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    Is homosexuality wrong?

    Hmm... I don't know if you can apply a blanket value judgement to something so personal and subjective. Why would somebody else's personal preference be considered "wrong"? If somebody liked broccoli, say, but you didn't, would you be offended by their preference? The most you could say is that it's wrong FOR YOU.

    Personally, I don't understand why a man would prefer another man over a woman either, but just because I don't desire other men doesn't mean that I automatically hate men who do. And, I'm sure that unbeknownst to you (and to most of us) that a gay person may very well prepare your food in a restaurant, cut your hair, mow your lawn, administer medical care, work in the grocery store, etc. You are probably friendly with them and like them. Why would a revelation of their sexual preference cause you to suddenly dislike them? After all, you don't HAVE to sleep with them! Besides, homosexuals actually benefit us hetereosexuals by eliminating themselves from the competition for the females!
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    After last night folks being attractive to men has its benefits, believe it or not, I didn't pay for a single drink last night! Thanks you guys!

    PS God's done it again for me .
    Watch Svwillmer turns out to be gay....
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Quote Originally Posted by sderenzi
    It's wrong, there is a flaw in their genes which makes them believe they like the same sex
    Without even getting into the gay gene debate: Your logic refutes itself. You claim that it's purely genetic. Therefore it cannot be "wrong". You cannot say that being black is wrong. He simply has different genetics.

    Even if you want to mouth off about it being a flaw, rather than a difference, then let's have a look at Y-linked disorders, like male infertility. This is a genetic flaw, yet I cannot call a sterile male "wrong". How about colour blindness. Do you pass moral judgement on the colour blind? Do you pass moral judgement on anemics?
    Well TvEye, if a man wants children of his own, wouldn't homosexuality actually be a flaw?
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  62. #61 Homosexuality 
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    In my opinion homosexuality IS wrong because it ISNT biologically normal. Just like paedophiles and beastophiles "wants" are un-natural.
    I am of the opinion that homosexuality is an illness / personality disorder.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Well TvEye, if a man wants children of his own, wouldn't homosexuality actually be a flaw?
    You're confusing homosexuality with infertility. If a gay man wants to pass on his genetics, he can get a surrogate mother. The only pertinent fact is that he can't have children with his mate of choice.

    Personally, my mate of choice would be softcore erotica model, Vera E. Second to her, I'm thinking Vanessa Marcil. I don't see that happening. Third, I'd go for Grace Kelly. But she's dead.
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    A post of mine from an earlier thread about homosexuality:

    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    My experties in evolution and genetics is very limited but i was interested in looking at natural selection when it comes to homosexuals.

    If there was a genetic coding for homosexuality then because the carrier would have been ill suited and not reproduced ( due to being homosexual ) wouldn't the gene have become extinct by now.

    I am personally undecided thats why i am doing this research project. So i can understand a concept which i can't comprehend.
    As Jeremyhfht says:

    There IS no "homosexual gene". This retarded idea is the result of politics. What there ARE, are a number of genes that COULD lead to homosexuality depending on your experiences in life. This means they could allow the user to reproduce.
    From an evolutionary standpoint, intra-gender sexual interactions are used by bonobo females to strengthen their alliances with each other. This is important for them as females are the dominant gender in bonobos. They still, however, reproduce with males. I would expect that human males in particular would be most likely to use sexual interactions to strengthen their relationships as well, as males were the dominant gender during the evolution of humans. And the males that form the best alliances can dominate their social group, and reserve the majority of mating opportunities, with females, for themselves.

    This is how a degree of sexual attraction for members of your own gender can be adaptive and selected for. And once the gene suite that influences this behavior is in place, as jeremy says, a higher than average dose of these genes and/or environmental stimuli can push some individuals to the extreme of actual repulsion for members of the opposite gender.
    In this manner, it is quite likely that a degree of homosexual attraction is, in fact, natural.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  65. #64  
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    Just like to say that I wanted to vote for the "Hell, no!" option, but it wasn't available.

    Glad to see that paralith and others are still waving the flag of reason.

    Sexual harrassment is wrong, whether by straight people or by gay people, but I think it's good that it has been pointed out that women have had to suffer these experiences for thousands of years: being treated as objects to be leered at. If a little bit of the reverse experience gives us (thrustingly heterosexual men) a better perspective on this then it isn't all bad is it?
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    My thoughts are if you are gay fine but there is no need to go out in the streets with a big sign saying ''I'm gay''. Your sex life is of no interest to anyone else, keep it to yourself! You don't see heterosexual people going out ranting about our sexual orientations.

    Barry
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  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    My thoughts are if you are gay fine but there is no need to go out in the streets with a big sign saying ''I'm gay''. Your sex life is of no interest to anyone else, keep it to yourself! You don't see heterosexual people going out ranting about our sexual orientations.

    Barry
    Control freakery. Who died and made you ruler of the universe?
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    Never said I was ruler of anything just saying there's nothing wrong with being gay but there is something wrong about going out and telling the world in big demonstrations because that's just stupid and nobody truly cares.

    Barry
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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Never said I was ruler of anything just saying there's nothing wrong with being gay but there is something wrong about going out and telling the world in big demonstrations because that's just stupid and nobody truly cares.

    Barry
    By that logic, there's something wrong with publicly celebrating any aspect of your personality or culture. We should do away with African American history month in the US. Women shouldn't celebrate feminist advancements in society.

    There's nothing wrong celebrating something you share in common with other people. Everyone does it all the time. If you don't have that in common then just don't join the celebration.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  70. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Never said I was ruler of anything just saying there's nothing wrong with being gay but there is something wrong about going out and telling the world in big demonstrations because that's just stupid and nobody truly cares.

    Barry
    By that logic, there's something wrong with publicly celebrating any aspect of your personality or culture. We should do away with African American history month in the US. Women shouldn't celebrate feminist advancements in society.

    There's nothing wrong celebrating something you share in common with other people. Everyone does it all the time. If you don't have that in common then just don't join the celebration.
    Thank you for that. It was my point too, but perhaps I was too elliptical...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Never said I was ruler of anything just saying there's nothing wrong with being gay but there is something wrong about going out and telling the world in big demonstrations because that's just stupid and nobody truly cares.

    Barry
    Go to various forums on this site and find posts such as this one posted by a heterosexual:

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/Rate-...-Pic-9567t.php

    or visit the behaviour forum and find all sorts of gems revolving around heterosexuality and how to get it on with the opposite sex, and then tell us:

    You don't see heterosexual people going out ranting about our sexual orientations.
    You don't see it, because it is acceptable to you.
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  72. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Never said I was ruler of anything just saying there's nothing wrong with being gay but there is something wrong about going out and telling the world in big demonstrations because that's just stupid and nobody truly cares.

    Barry
    By that logic, there's something wrong with publicly celebrating any aspect of your personality or culture. We should do away with African American history month in the US. Women shouldn't celebrate feminist advancements in society.

    There's nothing wrong celebrating something you share in common with other people. Everyone does it all the time. If you don't have that in common then just don't join the celebration.
    Your being perdantic paralith. Some might find sexual preference being outwardly spoken offensive. Its the way we are. You take one part of our history and intropolate it into another without physical evidence to support it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Your being perdantic paralith. Some might find sexual preference being outwardly spoken offensive. Its the way we are. You take one part of our history and intropolate it into another without physical evidence to support it.
    If people find the expression of sexual preference to be so offensive, then maybe they should stop making romance movies about straight couples, and straight couples shouldn't hold hands on the street because gay couples may not like seeing it.

    This goes back to the very beginning of my arguments with you in this thread, svwillmer. Nobody likes perverted sexual practices to be done right in front of their eyes. Talking in graphic terms about sex in front of children is offensive. Not being afraid to say that you're a man who loves a man and walking down the street holding hands together is not offensive. You wouldn't find a good looking woman walking confidently down the street and smiling at the occasional admiring man to be offensive, would you? You're thinking of offensive practices and acting like they only come from gay people. Maybe that's the way you are, but it's not the way we all are.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  74. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Your being perdantic paralith. Some might find sexual preference being outwardly spoken offensive. Its the way we are. You take one part of our history and intropolate it into another without physical evidence to support it.
    If people find the expression of sexual preference to be so offensive, then maybe they should stop making romance movies about straight couples, and straight couples shouldn't hold hands on the street because gay couples may not like seeing it.

    This goes back to the very beginning of my arguments with you in this thread, svwillmer. Nobody likes perverted sexual practices to be done right in front of their eyes. Talking in graphic terms about sex in front of children is offensive. Not being afraid to say that you're a man who loves a man and walking down the street holding hands together is not offensive. You wouldn't find a good looking woman walking confidently down the street and smiling at the occasional admiring man to be offensive, would you? You're thinking of offensive practices and acting like they only come from gay people. Maybe that's the way you are, but it's not the way we all are.
    By the standards of the past viewed in a modern perspective, soon it will be ok for peadophiles to go around on the street boasting their sexua preference to. Some things MUST be kept to yourself, I don't go around boastinig heterosexuality.

    As I say again, stop being perdantic. Some things are best kept to yourself. Do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole :wink:.
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  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    By the standards of the past viewed in a modern perspective, soon it will be ok for peadophiles to go around on the street boasting their sexua preference to. Some things MUST be kept to yourself, I don't go around boastinig heterosexuality.
    This claim is not just nonsense, it's nonsense on stilts. Our practice and principle in the modern age have turned violently against paedophilia - the world has never been less welcoming to those who engage in it, or even attempt to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    As I say again, stop being perdantic. Some things are best kept to yourself. Do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole :wink:.
    You don't get to decide what's pedantic. We live in a society and our morality and in particular our laws are predicated upon this fact: it is a collective morality.

    FWIW I think paralith is entirely in the right - and you have yet to address free radical's point that heterosexuality seems to be the subject of much chest-thumping amongst heterosexuals. Even if they're not you, they're doing it - so no getting away with a 'no true Scotsman' ruse.

    cheer

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  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    You wouldn't find a good looking woman walking confidently down the street and smiling at the occasional admiring man to be offensive, would you?.
    He would if he were a fundamentalist muslim.
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  77. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    You wouldn't find a good looking woman walking confidently down the street and smiling at the occasional admiring man to be offensive, would you?.
    He would if he were a fundamentalist muslim.
    Hurray! The almighty O has arrived .

    Proves that opinions on such things are down to who we ourselves have experienced.
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  78. #77 Re: Is Homosexuality wrong? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Ever walked the street and seen a homosexual (this being noticed by the way the dress etc), and they give you a look like the opposite member of the sex would? I find it revolting and sick. I literally felt violated that someone could have those thoughts about me. Homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose and one cannot carry on their genes, so why do people do this and carry on being that way? Personally there are a number of ways of looking at this argument in the perception of 'wrong'. But in everyway i find it wrong, pure and utter wrong, and how can you tell a homosexual to get lost politly? So far mine is fu<k off you motherfu<ikng disgusting evil sadist. I honestly feel this way. It is the last thing in my life that I have to accept. I am religious and have put aside jealousy, nearly anger and all that but this is the last great thing to overcome. How would you feel if someone came along to you of the same sex and had dirty perverted thoughts? (You can tell they do by the way they walk, move, talk and everything else, its sick).
    Just what were you wearing when you were 'leered at' what is you own appearance? could you have been mistaken as a member of the opposite sex? were you wearing unisex clothes? were you mistaken for a transvestite? are you afraid of your own sexuality (man usually only want's to destroy things he either does not understand or is jealous of).

    No I'm not gay I accept others for what they are. May you never be elected yo any position of political authority.
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  79. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    By the standards of the past viewed in a modern perspective, soon it will be ok for peadophiles to go around on the street boasting their sexua preference to. Some things MUST be kept to yourself, I don't go around boastinig heterosexuality.

    As I say again, stop being perdantic. Some things are best kept to yourself. Do yourself a favour and stop digging that hole.
    No, it won't be ok for pedophiles to publicly express their sexual appreciation of children because pedophilia is immoral (especially considering that it is usually done against the child's will). That would be like running around happily proclaiming you're a murderer. Being homosexual is not wrong or immoral, anymore than being heterosexual. You can go on calling me pedantic all you like, but doing so doesn't actually address the issue at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    He would if he were a fundamentalist muslim.
    If we were basing this discussion on the values that fundamentalist muslims hold, we would have all lauded svwillmer's first post and joined him in wishing ill will upon all homosexuals. But we're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Proves that opinions on such things are down to who we ourselves have experienced.
    And this proves that you take simple statements from authority figures as sufficient support for your own ideas. Not a very good argumentative tactic. Like I've said before, opinions are all well and good, but that doesn't mean that we as a society should only follow the opinions of certain people to guide our judgement of what's right and wrong.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    ...and you have yet to address free radical's point that heterosexuality seems to be the subject of much chest-thumping amongst heterosexuals. Even if they're not you...
    Actually, svwilmer asks the community for good chat up lines, on the behaviour forum. I'm sure there are others.
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  81. #80  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    ...but that doesn't mean that we as a society should only follow the opinions of certain people to guide our judgement of what's right and wrong.
    Really? Don't you have someone you get your opinions from, like erm. Maybe your parents? Do you and your boyfriend share each others opinions and form a collective one on some points and some none on others?

    Why do I not look on homosexuality as being acceptable to be boasted about. There is such a thing as it being OVER shown. I don't over dress to show off my heterosexuality, or boast it on the TV, not that I even know how to do that anyway :?.

    I understand your point so let me make myself clearer. I don't think it is wrong, just as long as I am not forced upon and have to have a good opinion on them because 'as a society we have to do that'.

    I assimilate other peoples ideas and opinions into my own and change them slightly, when a better one comes along, then I change and adapt to that. So if you can convince me your opinion is beneficial then I will change it to yours, until then you must try to see my point of view.
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  82. #81  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Why do I not look on homosexuality as being acceptable to be boasted about. There is such a thing as it being OVER shown. I don't over dress to show off my heterosexuality, or boast it on the TV, not that I even know how to do that anyway.
    You boast plenty about your heterosexuality, svwillmer, when you talk about your ability to get a girl using your little technique that you like to bring up periodically.

    I understand that some homosexuals can be a bit obnoxious. But so can some heterosexual people. That's just a personality issue, and has little to do with a person's sexual orientation. Obnoxious, disrespectful behavior should be discouraged. Behaviors that are normal and acceptable for heterosexuals should be normal and acceptable for homosexuals too. If you can talk about flirting techniques and sderenzi can ask about how to get laid on a public forum, then for goodness sake let homosexuals dress how they like. It's not like they walk around town in S&M gear or have offensive pictures on their t-shirts.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  83. #82 Re: Is Homosexuality wrong? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Ever walked the street and seen a homosexual (this being noticed by the way the dress etc), and they give you a look like the opposite member of the sex would? .
    Yes. More than once, but only when I was younger.
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I find it revolting and sick.
    I found it amusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I literally felt violated that someone could have those thoughts about me.
    That's your problem. It's not there problem. It is not society's problem. It is your problem, arising out of your world view. Don't expect any sympathy for a self created problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose
    Then why is homosexuality common amongst many animals? Such a widespread behaviour is hardly likely to have arisen unless it offered some evolutionary benefits. (And, by the way, we have identified genes in fruit flys, that laboratory favourite, that allow us to turn on (excuse the pun) and off, the creature's sexual preferences.)
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    so why do people do this and carry on being that way?
    Because that is their nature. They are attracted to members of the same sex. It is not a choice they have made sv it is the way they are. They are as naturally homosexual as you are heterosexual. Since God made them that way sv, shouldn't you respect them?
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    But in everyway i find it wrong, pure and utter wrong, and how can you tell a homosexual to get lost politly? So far mine is fu<k off you motherfu<ikng disgusting evil sadist. .
    And would you use the same approach to turn donw a girl you were not interested in? I rather think not. But this individual, who already has had to wrestle with feelings he knows are despised by much of the community plucks up the courage to indicate his interest in you and your response is.... well, less than sympathetic. And in my book most un-Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    How would you feel if someone came along to you of the same sex and had dirty perverted thoughts?
    I'd say sorry mate, you're out of luck, but thank you for thinking of me.
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  84. #83  
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    Is Homosexuality wrong?

    Only if it's done by people of different gender.

    And Ophie, "Fruit flys" conjours a wonderful image.
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    I just can't accept it easily. I don't know why. And what exactly would my opinion changing benefit others and me?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by free radical
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    ...and you have yet to address free radical's point that heterosexuality seems to be the subject of much chest-thumping amongst heterosexuals. Even if they're not you...
    Actually, svwilmer asks the community for good chat up lines, on the behaviour forum. I'm sure there are others.
    What's your favourite pizza topping? XD

    MOD EDIT
    SV, do you think you could stop double posting?
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  87. #86  
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    I just can't accept it easily. I don't know why. And what exactly would my opinion changing benefit others and me?
    Would you concede that your reaction is mainly emotionally driven and so can be subject to error? Paralith is stating the view from the perspective of a reasonable person being able to see the whole picture. Would you concede this point as well? Then you would have to agree that your position on the subject might be subjective and so potentially wrong. On your second question, you would not call the homosexual terrible names. A better understanding of the people around you can ONLY have beneficial results for everyone around you.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  88. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator (Almost sure Megabrain)
    SV, do you think you could stop double posting?
    Yes, sorry.

    And KALSTER I see your point and thank you .
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  89. #88  
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    Maybe I should have read the whole thread, but I've only scanned the first page. My philosophy: morals are determined by society. In America, you would be in trouble if you cut out someone's tung for lying or chopped of their hands for stealing. There have been places that have done that. Most of most society's beliefs have been defined by the dominate religion of that region. Personally I don't agree with Homosexuality. My religion doesn't either. Morality though if you disregard religion does not exist. It is an abstract concept. If your society which was 50 years ago anti-homosexual now accepts them, in that society homosexuality has become moral. Once again, I say that I am against the act. I don't believe that I have the right to stop them though.

    A law is proposed to legalize homosexual marriage, I will fight it.

    A law is proposed to illegalize homosexuality, I will also fight it.

    I have political reasons to fight any marriage laws. Ask if you like, There was a thread about it in the politics section.[/i]
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    Is it my imagination or what?

    It always seems to me religious people (supposedly taught tolerance by their religion) seem uneasy (to say the least) when confronted with homosexual issues whereas atheists mostly seem to say "what issue?" and usually have no qualms at all with sexuality.

    Christians of all people ae supposed to 'turn the other cheek' and if that is not suggestivbe I do not know what is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Is it my imagination or what?

    It always seems to me religious people (supposedly taught tolerance by their religion) seem uneasy (to say the least) when confronted with homosexual issues whereas atheists mostly seem to say "what issue?" and usually have no qualms at all with sexuality.

    Christians of all people ae supposed to 'turn the other cheek' and if that is not suggestivbe I do not know what is?
    I think the most profound thing about religious people is that they can state one thing and completley mean another, and if you don't realise what they meant, its your own fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    Morality though if you disregard religion does not exist. It is an abstract concept.
    I completely disagree. Morality is about what behavioral rules individuals should follow that would best benefit them all as they live together in society. Religion is not necessary for morality. Allowing homosexual people to marry each other does no harm to anyone.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  93. #92  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    Morality though if you disregard religion does not exist. It is an abstract concept.
    I completely disagree. Morality is about what behavioral rules individuals should follow that would best benefit them all as they live together in society. Religion is not necessary for morality. Allowing homosexual people to marry each other does no harm to anyone.
    Is that an enviromental arguement I sense paralith. 8).
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  94. #93  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    It always seems to me religious people (supposedly taught tolerance by their religion) seem uneasy (to say the least) when confronted with homosexual issues whereas atheists mostly seem to say "what issue?" and usually have no qualms at all with sexuality.
    Christians of all people ae supposed to 'turn the other cheek' and if that is not suggestivbe I do not know what is?
    I hope you wern't refering to the fact that I'm not tolerant of homosexuality. I stated myself that though I think it's wrong, I do not believe that I have the right to stop them from having the choice of a homosexual relationship. I'm not uneasy about it, and have homosexual friends and co-workers that I enjoy being around. It's like smoking and drinking. I think it's wrong, and it's bad for society. As long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, I don't think I have the right to stop them. It's their free will.
    turn the other cheek? They haven't done anything to me. I'm not looking the other way though. I can be as clear about my beliefs as anyone else without pushing them on anyone
    I completely disagree. Morality is about what behavioral rules individuals should follow that would best benefit them all as they live together in society. Religion is not necessary for morality. Allowing homosexual people to marry each other does no harm to anyone.
    Morality differs from society to society though, as I pointed out. It is an abstract idea. What is acceptable is what is "moral". Maybe I explained it incorrectly though. There is nothing concrete about them though, that's for sure.
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  95. #94  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    A law is proposed to legalize homosexual marriage, I will fight it.

    It will not affect you in any way (I dare to presume), so why should you even want to fight it?

    Why not just live and let live?

    How ever you mask it up or insist that by having homosexual friends you are therefore 'tolerant' you would be neverless interfering with the lives of others were you to campaign against the right for 'same sex marriages'
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  96. #95  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    A law is proposed to legalize homosexual marriage, I will fight it.

    It will not affect you in any way (I dare to presume), so why should you even want to fight it?

    Why not just live and let live?

    How ever you mask it up or insist that by having homosexual friends you are therefore 'tolerant' you would be neverless interfering with the lives of others were you to campaign against the right for 'same sex marriages'
    I think Megabrain because if you let one thing happen, its a domino effect with everything else. Look at that guy from the 50's-whats his name who warned us about the future (or now present) having a huge amount of illegal and legal immigrants that the Country isn't ready for so sudden, or something like that.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  97. #96  
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    So if we legalise same sex marriages then we all become gay eh?

    I love that medeval logic, it has warmed the cockles of many a heart of the centuries....
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  98. #97  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    A law is proposed to legalize homosexual marriage, I will fight it.

    It will not affect you in any way (I dare to presume), so why should you even want to fight it?

    Why not just live and let live?

    How ever you mask it up or insist that by having homosexual friends you are therefore 'tolerant' you would be neverless interfering with the lives of others were you to campaign against the right for 'same sex marriages'
    I think Megabrain because if you let one thing happen, its a domino effect with everything else. Look at that guy from the 50's-whats his name who warned us about the future (or now present) having a huge amount of illegal and legal immigrants that the Country isn't ready for so sudden, or something like that.
    how does enoch powell relate to homosexual marriage?

    And how has the UK been affected since the civil ceremonys of same sex couples? thats been happening since december 2005, i dont think its even registered a blip in the majority of peoples lives
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  99. #98  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    And how has the UK been affected since the civil ceremonys of same sex couples? thats been happening since december 2005, i dont think its even registered a blip in the majority of peoples lives

    I'll let you know later georgous xxxxxxx
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  100. #99  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    And how has the UK been affected since the civil ceremonys of same sex couples? thats been happening since december 2005, i dont think its even registered a blip in the majority of peoples lives

    I'll let you know later georgous xxxxxxx

    shh, not on the open forum
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  101. #100  
    Forum Bachelors Degree Shaderwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderwolf
    A law is proposed to legalize homosexual marriage, I will fight it.

    It will not affect you in any way (I dare to presume), so why should you even want to fight it?
    Pro rights marriages will have a domino effect. First, gays get the marriage rights. Then, people say that the rights should be given to anyone. "Many people live together for a number of reasons. Older sisters/brothers, Mom and an older kid, even some good friends all of which are likely non-sexual. They could legitimately say they deserve the rights of any couple." Think of the legal implications.

    Let them be gay.. I'm not stopping them. Doesn't mean it's right though.
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