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Thread: Do you know music?

  1. #1 Do you know music? 
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    Do you know music?

    Many years ago I became conscious of my ignorance of music. Of course, I recognized all the popular music and even tried to sing some of it occasionally. I had, for a very long time, been aware that I did not know music but for some reason I became conscious of this fact, my attention became focused upon this simple awareness. As a result I bought a package deal for ‘music appreciation’. My package included a book and some tapes.

    I discovered that, for me, music appreciation was not going to be easy. I was directed to listen to certain tapes; I was told what to listen for and was informed as to the importance of that element I was hearing meant within the world of music. I had a very difficult time hearing what I was supposed to hear. I quickly lost interest and to this day I still do not know music. I do, however, know enough to recognize the depth of my ignorance. When I became conscious, through my music appreciation package, of the different elements of music I became knowledgably of the depth of my ignorance.

    I miss much by this ignorance; this I am confident of. Someday I shall revisit this matter and hopefully I will stick it out this time and manage to jump over the barrier that surrounds this domain of ignorance. Once I get over that original high hurdle then I am confident my enthusiasm of discovery will carry me forward. That first step is the toughest in most domains of ignorance but once we overcome it we are supplied with the energy to carry forward because the joy of learning takes over.

    Hobbies are ways in which many individuals express their individuality. Those matters that excite an individual interest and curiosity are those very things that allow the individual to self-understanding and also for others to understand them. Interests define individuality and help to provide meaning to life. We all look for some ideology, hobby, philosophy, or religion to provide meaning to life.

    When examining psychosis the psychiatrist advises either the establishment of an interpersonal evolvement or for finding interests and perhaps new patterns of thought. Many of us find that our work provides that means for identity and personal fulfillment.

    Few of us have discovered our full potentialities or have fully explored, in depth, those we have discovered. Self-development and self-expression are relatively new ideas in human history. The arts are one means for this self-expression. The artist may find drawing or constructing sculptures as a means for self-discovery. The self-learner may find essay writing of equal importance. Consciousness of individuality first becomes a possibility in the middle Ages. The Renaissance and further the Reformation enhanced the development of individual identification.

    The word “individual” moved from the indivisible and collective to the divisible and distinctive. In this we see the development of an understanding of self-consciousness thus illustrating the dramatic change taking place in our developing understanding of the self as a distinct subject not just a cipher in a community. This was part of the Renaissance.

    I recommend that each individual develop the hobby of an intellectual life. We could add to our regular routine the development of an invigorating intellectual life wherein we sought disinterested knowledge; knowledge that is not for the purpose of some immediate need but something that stirs our curiosity, which we seek to understand for the simple reason that we feel a need to understand a particular domain of knowledge.


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    Forum Bachelors Degree Demen Tolden's Avatar
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    Hey coberst. I do like your writting style a bit, but you seem to use a lot of vague words and phrases that seem to almost not be related to eachother. I'll point out a few specifics, but I don't want to spend too much time on it.

    What do you mean by "ignorance of music", and "I did not know music?" Are you talking about knowing what artists performed or wrote what songs? Do you mean you did not know how music is structured? Do you mean you didn't know how to interpret some kinds of music because you were not very familiar with them or perhaps could not get over a previous gut reaction?

    more vague phrases: importance of that element I was hearing, hearing what I was supposed to hear, I still do not know music, depth of my ignorance, when I became conscience, domain of my ignorance, original high hurdle, ect.

    Your ideas sound interesting, but they are difficult to decrypt. Maybe you are expansive like me and like to explore and wander around with your ideas, but if you dont excersize focus, things get lost in translation.

    I hope you don't take my critism too negativly. I only responded with it because I liked your writting a little. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have posted.


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    Vague indeed. It reminds me of the phrase "Word Salad". Are you attempting to sound intelligent? Nobody I've seen seems to botch clarity that badly unless they're overstepping their vocabulary bounds.

    There could be a few problems with music and yourself. One would be empathy. Music is, largely, an empathetic medium. If you can't feel, you can't enjoy.

    what's most interesting is that the subject of music only lasts for about TWO PARAGRAPHS. The rest I shall dub "worthless text" or "brainscum salad". There's nothing to it. Only vague musings of an eccentric person.

    I think, most of all, you must work on your conciseness first and foremost. This should help you think clearly. And spare us from the mental torment of even speed reading through your mess. I swear if I was a moderator I'd have deleted most of it.
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    There could be a few problems with music and yourself. One would be empathy. Music is, largely, an empathetic medium. If you can't feel, you can't enjoy.

    What’s most interesting is that the subject of music only lasts for about TWO PARAGRAPHS. The rest I shall dub "worthless text" or "brainscum salad". There's nothing to it. Only vague musings of an eccentric person.
    That is mostly how I enjoy music. There are songs that I have listened to a hundred times, but I still don't know the words. It's all about the music and the emotions they invoke.

    Which makes me think about two things: There are more ways than the one to enjoy music. Some people learn the words by heart and interpret the lyrics, being ambiguous much of the time, as they see it according to what makes sense to them in there lives at that moment in time. The other thing, is how much can be read into someone’s music choice? Someone with a varied taste in music might be better at understanding and analyzing their own and others' emotions?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Vague indeed. It reminds me of the phrase "Word Salad". Are you attempting to sound intelligent? Nobody I've seen seems to botch clarity that badly unless they're overstepping their vocabulary bounds.
    So pedantically patronising I might have written it myself. 8)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demen Tolden
    Hey coberst. I do like your writting style a bit, but you seem to use a lot of vague words and phrases that seem to almost not be related to eachother. I'll point out a few specifics, but I don't want to spend too much time on it.

    What do you mean by "ignorance of music", and "I did not know music?" Are you talking about knowing what artists performed or wrote what songs? Do you mean you did not know how music is structured? Do you mean you didn't know how to interpret some kinds of music because you were not very familiar with them or perhaps could not get over a previous gut reaction?

    more vague phrases: importance of that element I was hearing, hearing what I was supposed to hear, I still do not know music, depth of my ignorance, when I became conscience, domain of my ignorance, original high hurdle, ect.

    Your ideas sound interesting, but they are difficult to decrypt. Maybe you are expansive like me and like to explore and wander around with your ideas, but if you dont excersize focus, things get lost in translation.

    I hope you don't take my critism too negativly. I only responded with it because I liked your writting a little. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have posted.
    I understand what you are saying--you are in the same boat with me. The difference is that I am conscious of what I am mssing by not knowing music and you have not yet made that discovery. Being conscious of a matter is a major step toward gaining knowledge about a matter.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Vague indeed. It reminds me of the phrase "Word Salad". Are you attempting to sound intelligent? Nobody I've seen seems to botch clarity that badly unless they're overstepping their vocabulary bounds.
    So pedantically patronising I might have written it myself. 8)
    Yes Ophiolite that is the sort of statement I would expect from you.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by Demen Tolden
    Hey coberst. I do like your writting style a bit, but you seem to use a lot of vague words and phrases that seem to almost not be related to eachother. I'll point out a few specifics, but I don't want to spend too much time on it.

    What do you mean by "ignorance of music", and "I did not know music?" Are you talking about knowing what artists performed or wrote what songs? Do you mean you did not know how music is structured? Do you mean you didn't know how to interpret some kinds of music because you were not very familiar with them or perhaps could not get over a previous gut reaction?

    more vague phrases: importance of that element I was hearing, hearing what I was supposed to hear, I still do not know music, depth of my ignorance, when I became conscience, domain of my ignorance, original high hurdle, ect.

    Your ideas sound interesting, but they are difficult to decrypt. Maybe you are expansive like me and like to explore and wander around with your ideas, but if you dont excersize focus, things get lost in translation.

    I hope you don't take my critism too negativly. I only responded with it because I liked your writting a little. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have posted.
    I understand what you are saying--you are in the same boat with me. The difference is that I am conscious of what I am mssing by not knowing music and you have not yet made that discovery. Being conscious of a matter is a major step toward gaining knowledge about a matter.
    coberst...did you even read what demen tolden wrote? he wasn't agreeing with you. he was saying that your writing is vague and hard to understand. demen said nothing that would indicate he has somehow not made the discovery of music. he was talking about your writing style and nothing else.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    It sounds like Coberst is battling or has battled some demons. Possibly a divorce, mid-life crisis or a depression. My alarms go on when I see the words psychosis and psychiatrist in the same sentence. It seems to relate to his perceived inability to understand everything. Music in this case was just an example he's using to demonstrate his lack of knowledge on certain subjects. He seems to be or was at some sort of crossroads, looking back over his shoulder at what could have been. He knows he cannot turn back.

    I think Coberst in his self-examination realized that the only way to confront his past was to put it permanently behind him. I notice he says the word consciousness a lot. Perhaps he feels it was missing for part of his life. I think his self realization, his discovery of consciousness, proved to be very therapeutic. It cured his morose and he wants to share it with the world.

    This is not a thread about music. It's Coberst telling you that he is now trying to realize his full potential, albeit a little late. I think that he is without directly saying so, encouraging everyone to consciously explore their world, without hesitation. What he doesn't realize is that many of us have already taken this turn. Life is full of surprises
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  11. #10  
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    zin...

    I have placed this same question on several forums and I am astonished to discover that everyone seems to love music but hardly anyone knows music. I suspect this should tell us something about how much our society tends to exercise or even to recognze its intellectual capacity.

    You are correct in your notice that I use the word conscious often. I use this word often because it is basically why I post on Internet forums.

    I think that it is useful to analyze comprehension as a hierarchy shaped like a pyramid. Awarness is at the base followed by consciousness. Consiusness is awareness plus attention. Following consciousness is knowing followed by understanding at the pinnacle. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing and it is the creation of meaning.

    There are so many important ideas that never reach the stage of consciosness for many people in our society. Music is one of these concepts that everyone is aware of but very few are conscious of it beyond is obvious ability to move us emotionally. I write on these forums in an effort to make people conscious of what I consider to be very important ideas.
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    I've worked as a musician, dj, event organiser and music journalist. I'm curious about this 'music appreciation package'. Which genres were you directed to? Did this include protopunk, post-punk, ebm, madchester..? black metal, noise rock, shoegazer?
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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  13. #12  
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    The notion confuses me. You can't point out the political importance of the clash or the pistols and expect someone to appreciate the music for that reason. You either like it or you don't. The best you can do is create compilations of varying genres and maybe one catches.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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    Music is a very emotional experience. Emotions are instincts. Why is there such an apparent direct connection between music and instincts? If we inherit our instincts from our animal ancestors one would expect to see a great response from primates to music. Is anyone aware of such a connection?
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Music is a very emotional experience. Emotions are instincts. Why is there such an apparent direct connection between music and instincts? If we inherit our instincts from our animal ancestors one would expect to see a great response from primates to music. Is anyone aware of such a connection?
    I am not aware of such a connection, but I think humans would be more predisposed to pay attention to vocal expressions of emotion than non-human primates, as we have much more complex vocal communications than any other primate.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Music is a very emotional experience. Emotions are instincts. Why is there such an apparent direct connection between music and instincts? If we inherit our instincts from our animal ancestors one would expect to see a great response from primates to music. Is anyone aware of such a connection?
    Although i don't have any links, i have read several times that animal behaviour can be manipulated/influenced by music. As for humans, i suppose the most basic would be a baby resting on your chest feeling comforted by the sound of your heart beat.
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demen Tolden
    Hey coberst. I do like your writting style a bit, but you seem to use a lot of vague words and phrases that seem to almost not be related to eachother. I'll point out a few specifics, but I don't want to spend too much time on it.

    What do you mean by "ignorance of music", and "I did not know music?" Are you talking about knowing what artists performed or wrote what songs? Do you mean you did not know how music is structured? Do you mean you didn't know how to interpret some kinds of music because you were not very familiar with them or perhaps could not get over a previous gut reaction?

    more vague phrases: importance of that element I was hearing, hearing what I was supposed to hear, I still do not know music, depth of my ignorance, when I became conscience, domain of my ignorance, original high hurdle, ect.

    Your ideas sound interesting, but they are difficult to decrypt. Maybe you are expansive like me and like to explore and wander around with your ideas, but if you dont excersize focus, things get lost in translation.

    I hope you don't take my critism too negativly. I only responded with it because I liked your writting a little. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have posted.
    You now have some questios that could form a launching platform for learning about music. I suspect that both you and I could discover a whole new world if we were to answer these questions. Asking questions is the begining of learning. Our teachers always asked the questions and also furnished the answers and that is why we find it so difficult to become self-learners after our schooling is complete.
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