Thread: Atheism, derives from childhood privation?

I had a lot of love as a child, a lot of anger too. But the point is that I had love and that love now to this day has overcome that anger.

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature. Relgious people however are not from the ones I know. For example, myself and Mazhara are very peaceful natured folk, and why? Because we had good emotional attachment as children and were taught that the world is the way it is. But that emotional attachment we gained as children allowed us to love others even though others were not nice to us, so our adopted ways from childhood become a part of our nature and hence aggression atheists learn due to their raising inflicts onto others-especially those who are not angry. The old 'reverse psychology' routine, peaceful people naturally would like a peacful response, but if they don't get it? Their response is peaceful. But an aggressive person wants an aggressive response (I get this all the time with those I know), but when they don't? They become aggressive. Unfortunatley this is a cache 22 situation when it comes to atheists as they are in a pardoxical state of mind were questioning of faith, rules beliefs etc causes them to deny the existence of something they cannot understand, something they cannot understand because they are aggressive of it and cannot approach it in a peaceful manner. This is probably the reason why peacful people find religion-because it takesa peaceful way to understand it.

It has just hit me, it is going to be harder for an aggressive person to believe as there aggression may be incorporated into belief as their psychological composition cannot change so easily and, of course enter religious aggression (a.k.a fanatacism, example-taliban).

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

Regardless of there being no empirical or otherwise scientific evidence? Even if atheists are angry - rather than perhaps passionate about certain matters - that might simply be a consequence of their oppression on the hands of the religious. I imagine it is quite easy to be peaceful and content about one's religion if it is the ruling principle in a state.

Regardless of what is suggested in the US under the pretext of the first amendment, there is plenty of legislation that is not secular and has purely religious content.

However, even if you are right, that atheism does follow from childhood deprivation, how is this an argument for theism? If there are certain circumstances people are born into that define a person's religion, what does that say about one's choice to believe in God, and God himself?

Besides, just by showing that atheism is false does not mean that your particular denomination of Christianity - or even Christianity is therewith true. Even if you have ruled out all known religions, there are still unknown religions that are possibly the true way.

Even if you were to substantiate your argument - which you haven't - you would still have the whole case in front of you.

PS. If you are looking for 'angry atheists', a good idea is to say that they were deprived in their youth. Self-fulfilling prophecy?

well, sorry to bust your bubble svwillmer, but my boyfriend and I are atheists and I think we're pretty peaceful people. At least, we're happy and friendly much more often than we are angry and aggressive.

You should also think about how you are defining your ideas of peaceful and angry. Some people might see your "peaceful" as passive. Some people might see your "angry" as passionate (as HomoUniversalis hinted at).

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

...oppression on the hands of the religious. I imagine it is quite easy to be peaceful and content about one's religion if it is the ruling principle in a state.

Ey? Religion is not about ruling anything. I don't denote religion ruling anything. And certainly am unaware that religion 'opresses' you. Why would a relgious person do that anyway-as in a true one).

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

...does not mean that your particular denomination of Christianity - or even Christianity is therewith true.

Did I anywhere in my post say 'Christian? No. Why do you say this if I did not mention it? I think that you are mixing your feelings from some other background in your life to this conversation. No offense but if you are going to make a statement about something at least back it up with what you mean by it please.

Originally Posted by paralith

well, sorry to bust your bubble svwillmer, but my boyfriend and I are atheists and I think we're pretty peaceful people. At least, we're happy and friendly much more often than we are angry and aggressive.

Well I am just going with those who I know, so my view may be biased. But I don't think 'passionate' is the appropriate word. Thats like Osama Bin Laden saying 'What we are doing is cleansing the wrongdoers'. Nuff said.

Do you know why you perceive atheists to be angry? Because they are probably angry at you! Some theists look at atheists from an aloof position, as if they are missing the plot, as though they cannot understand what you think is THE TRUTH, because you have a tone in your voice of feeling sorry for that person, because you think he is going to hell. You know what makes me angry? When a theist says “I forgive you” or “I still love you regardless”, as if he is acting out of moral superiority! That makes me angry and I imagine many of the atheists you have contact with. My own family thinks I am being an idiot when I question the Adam and Eve story as well as other fairy tales from the bible. I have decided to not tell them about my atheism, because they would certainly think I would be going to hell!
I am as peaceful a person as you will ever meet. I had a lot of love while I grew up and our family is still very close.

I don’t know where you live or the people you have contact with, but I am sorry, that was an extremely naïve statement on your part.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature.

It's not easy to control ones temper when so much of mankind is fettered with ignorance and intellectual oppression and mired in myth and superstition, while those who continue to propagate these cults are free to build and run their churches tax exempt with little or no accountability.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Do you know why you perceive atheists to be angry? Because they are probably angry at you! Some theists look at atheists from an aloof position, as if they are missing the plot, as though they cannot understand what you think is THE TRUTH, because you have a tone in your voice of feeling sorry for that person, because you think he is going to hell. You know what makes me angry? When a theist says “I forgive you” or “I still love you regardless”, as if he is acting out of moral superiority! That makes me angry and I imagine many of the atheists you have contact with. My own family thinks I am being an idiot when I question the Adam and Eve story as well as other fairy tales from the bible. I have decided to not tell them about my atheism, because they would certainly think I would be going to hell!
I am as peaceful a person as you will ever meet. I had a lot of love while I grew up and our family is still very close.

I don’t know where you live or the people you have contact with, but I am sorry, that was an extremely naïve statement on your part.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

Don't you see that your anger will be your downfall? As all other angry people have fallen before you? Hitler? Stalin? Mussolini? Mugabe? Not that I'm comparing you to them.

And why should we not feel morally superior hm? We know what works best as we were once angry like you but now we are not and can see.

'Once blind, but now I see'. Does that sound familiar?

The Bible is (or should be-it is to me) mostly about your morals and doing God's will. I live a very happy life almost free of anger and I have many friends. Even some atheists are seeing things my way and seeing the path of light, or rather peacefulness and no anger.

I forgive you you say? They say that to you? Were you in the wrong? Are they just being nice? Are they just BEING HUMAN? Your saying that to not be condescending or thinking oneself to be greater than antoher is only limited to religious beleif? Is THAT not thinking oneself superior?

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

...oppression on the hands of the religious. I imagine it is quite easy to be peaceful and content about one's religion if it is the ruling principle in a state.

Ey? Religion is not about ruling anything. I don't denote religion ruling anything. And certainly am unaware that religion 'opresses' you. Why would a relgious person do that anyway-as in a true one).

A 'true' religious person? As in 'true scotsman'? Quite the fallacy. Regardless, defining a religious person in the context of what you think ought to be the interpretation of a certain text is oppressive. It is not conducive to debate or interpretation when you have already settled on what is and should be a religious person.

As for religious oppression. How about the oppression of homosexuality throughout the world, for which not a single secular reason exists? Or the suppression of women? How about the terrifying techniques used by the religious on heretics and non-heretics to extract a confession?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

...does not mean that your particular denomination of Christianity - or even Christianity is therewith true.

Did I anywhere in my post say 'Christian? No.

So you aren't a Christian?

"<...>with me as the Christian and <...>"

Why do you say this if I did not mention it? I think that you are mixing your feelings from some other background in your life to this conversation.

What feelings from what background? You don't know me.

No offense but if you are going to make a statement about something at least back it up with what you mean by it please.

I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you a Christian.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature. Relgious people however are not from the ones I know. For example, myself and Mazhara are very peaceful natured folk, and why? Because we had good emotional attachment as children and were taught that the world is the way it is. But that emotional attachment we gained as children allowed us to love others even though others were not nice to us, so our adopted ways from childhood become a part of our nature and hence aggression atheists learn due to their raising inflicts onto others-especially those who are not angry. The old 'reverse psychology' routine, peaceful people naturally would like a peacful response, but if they don't get it? Their response is peaceful. But an aggressive person wants an aggressive response (I get this all the time with those I know), but when they don't? They become aggressive. Unfortunatley this is a cache 22 situation when it comes to atheists as they are in a pardoxical state of mind were questioning of faith, rules beliefs etc causes them to deny the existence of something they cannot understand, something they cannot understand because they are aggressive of it and cannot approach it in a peaceful manner. This is probably the reason why peacful people find religion-because it takesa peaceful way to understand it.

It has just hit me, it is going to be harder for an aggressive person to believe as there aggression may be incorporated into belief as their psychological composition cannot change so easily and, of course enter religious aggression (a.k.a fanatacism, example-taliban).

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

SVWillmer

what absolute judgmental nonsense

How dare you presume that no belief in a God means those people are angry or they were unloved as children.

All your comment suggests is that you have led a completely sheltered life, that you can make such an outrageous assumption and generalization.

This science forum is in NO WAY reflective of normal society for starters.

Meanwhile religion IS NO guarantee of kind moral and loving ways, look at the pedophile priests! Suicide bombers, religious hatred between the various religions.

Some people turn away from God after being believers as they are angry with God. Thus they are not truly atheist as you cannot be angry at something that you genuinely believe does not exist.

For those who are without belief, that is perhaps a matter of 'wiring'/lifestyle/exposure/influences BUT it does not make them 'angry' or less decent as people.

grrrrrrrrrr

It is exactly that kind of comment that turns people away from religious folk.

You preach love and kindness and then go and generalise and offend and insult all in one mammoth sweep! If you were capable of practicing what you preach you would NOT make those comments. Your love for others would show an appreciation for where they come from and accepetance that not everyone has to do and be like you.

I know MANY good people and their religious orientation has nothing to do with what measure of goodness they posess.

For those who are without belief, that is perhaps a matter of 'wiring'/lifestyle/exposure/influences BUT it does not make them 'angry' or less decent as people.

Those without belief aren't people? :P

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

For those who are without belief, that is perhaps a matter of 'wiring'/lifestyle/exposure/influences BUT it does not make them 'angry' or less decent as people.

Those without belief aren't people? :P

what are you talking about? I never said anytsuch thing. pay closer attention.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

As for religious oppression. How about the oppression of homosexuality throughout the world, for which not a single secular reason exists? Or the suppression of women? How about the terrifying techniques used by the religious on heretics and non-heretics to extract a confession?

Does it say that in the Bible? NO! Don't mix mans interperetation with God's. Homosexuality is forbidden by God and for a good reason. Taxes.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian?

Of course I am. But I did not say it in this post therefore it is irrelevant otherwise I would have put it down.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

What feelings from what background? You don't know me.

Your interperetation seemed a bit too 'strong' or would passionate be a more appropriate word?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian? I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you a Christian.

I am Christian 100% I just did not want it to be relevant in my first post (as I've already explained).

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

As for religious oppression. How about the oppression of homosexuality throughout the world, for which not a single secular reason exists? Or the suppression of women? How about the terrifying techniques used by the religious on heretics and non-heretics to extract a confession?

Does it say that in the Bible? NO! Don't mix mans interperetation with God's.

So you are saying that you are privy to God's intentions?

Homosexuality is forbidden by God and for a good reason. Taxes.

I don't understand.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian?

Of course I am. But I did not say it in this post therefore it is irrelevant otherwise I would have put it down.

Whether or you deem it irrelevant or not does not mean I have to agree with it. If we were to believe this ad hominem on atheism, that still would not mean that any one particular religion - Christianity per example - were more believable.
What if not believing in racism was because one were not loved enough during childhood? That doesn't say whether one should be a racist in regards to what race. Saddam Hussein and Hitler had very different views on what the Master Race was.
Even if your argument held up, you would still have the biggest argument in front of you.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

What feelings from what background? You don't know me.

Your interperetation seemed a bit too 'strong' or would passionate be a more appropriate word?

Too strong for what?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian? I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you a Christian.

I am Christian 100% I just did not want it to be relevant in my first post (as I've already explained).

You didn't want it to be relevant? Either you think it is or it isn't, I hardly see what you wanting has to do with it. Wanting God to exist doesn't make him appear 'in a puff of logic'.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

Been watching Star Wars, have you?

Don't you see that your anger will be your downfall? As all other angry people have fallen before you? Hitler? Stalin? Mussolini? Mugabe? Not that I'm comparing you to them.

Did you deduce from my post that I am angry all the time? I stated what makes me angry and what might make the atheists you have contact with angry. Besides NOONE can be happy and content all the time.
I SAYD: I am as peaceful a person as you will ever meet.
You think I was lying? Do you think I am deluding myself?

I forgive you you say? They say that to you? Were you in the wrong? Are they just being nice? Are they just BEING HUMAN? Your saying that to not be condescending or thinking oneself to be greater than antoher is only limited to religious beleif? Is THAT not thinking oneself superior?

Again, no. These people use those fraises as a weapon. What are you supposed to say then? I am quick to admit it when I was wrong. These people are human just as I am human and are susceptible to the same character flaws. The difference is, that theists think that atheists have no moral compass, that we make it up as we go along. That they are the only ones that are capable of knowing right from wrong.

You are really making quick judgments about my character without knowing me at all.

taxes?

rofl

ah yes. that's a very good reason to persecute and torture and kill people.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

SVWillmer

what absolute judgmental nonsense

How dare you presume that no belief in a God means those people are angry or they were unloved as children.

All your comment suggests is that you have led a completely sheltered life, that you can make such an outrageous assumption and generalization.

This science forum is in NO WAY reflective of normal society for starters.

Meanwhile religion IS NO guarantee of kind moral and loving ways, look at the pedophile priests! Suicide bombers, religious hatred between the various religions.

Some people turn away from God after being believers as they are angry with God. Thus they are not truly atheist as you cannot be angry at something that you genuinely believe does not exist.

For those who are without belief, that is perhaps a matter of 'wiring'/lifestyle/exposure/influences BUT it does not make them 'angry' or less decent as people.

grrrrrrrrrr

It is exactly that kind of comment that turns people away from religious folk.

You preach love and kindness and then go and generalise and offend and insult all in one mammoth sweep! If you were capable of practicing what you preach you would NOT make those comments. Your love for others would show an appreciation for where they come from and accepetance that not everyone has to do and be like you.

I know MANY good people and their religious orientation has nothing to do with what measure of goodness they posess.

Enter your anger. Don't let it turn into hate.

The truth hurts. Period.

In one mammoth sweep? I am going to stand up for my beliefs. And I did NOT say that no belief in God makes people angry, I said that no religion generally makes people more angry. Which it seems to be true given everyones response. You think Jesus got away telling everyone His word without angering people? Love and peace are words, what matters is the what the words are connected to. If your mother for instance is mad at you as a child for being naughty where you could have hurt yourself, is that not love? Is that not kindness? Ever heard of being cruel to be kind?

INSULTS!? What about the ones I get everytime I hear 'Oh theres been another bombing in Iraq, if Religion didn't exist we'd have no problems like this' How do you think I am going to be at that? Insulted? You bet I am! One group spoils it for the rest. I have love and compassion however so I will be offended but not call you names for it. I'll tell the truth don't worry about it, but if you interperet that as name calling-offense whatever, the truth is the truth and so DEAL WITH IT.

By the way, I have no anger whilst writing this. HONEST. Can you say the same?

I am not an atheist and he's made me angry!

judgemental hypocrite

I am angry SVWIllmer which proves you WRONG. I beleive in GOD, I talk to him every day, and guess what he agree's with me.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

For those who are without belief, that is perhaps a matter of 'wiring'/lifestyle/exposure/influences BUT it does not make them 'angry' or less decent as people.

Those without belief aren't people? :P

what are you talking about? I never said anytsuch thing. pay closer attention.

Pay closer attention? I was merely remarking upon a - what I assume to be - grammatical omitting.

"For those who are without belief <...> it does not make them <...> less decent as people."

I hardly see how a 'pay closer attention' is warranted. :|

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

I am not an atheist and he's made me angry!

judgemental hypocrite

I am angry SVWIllmer which proves you WRONG. I beleive in GOD, I talk to him every day, and guess what he agree's with me.

I believe in God, ah but no religion , that's what makes the difference according to you isn't it SVW.

We have to be a member of the fan club or we aren't 'nice'.

You get out of that box you live in and start mixing in the real world, then get back to me.

trying?

Why are you wasting time engaging me on a typo?

I give up. I'm off to bed.

(asl and pic please in my inbox)

Originally Posted by svwillmer

INSULTS!? What about the ones I get everytime I hear 'Oh theres been another bombing in Iraq, if Religion didn't exist we'd have no problems like this' How do you think I am going to be at that? Insulted? You bet I am!

Originally Posted by svwillmer

One group spoils it for the rest.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Some theists look at atheists from an aloof position, as if they are missing the plot, as though they cannot understand what you think is THE TRUTH, because you have a tone in your voice of feeling sorry for that person, because you think he is going to hell. You know what makes me angry? When a theist says “I forgive you” or “I still love you regardless”, as if he is acting out of moral superiority!

Originally Posted by svwillmer

One group spoils it for the rest.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you are saying that you are privy to God's intentions?

If people read the Bible proporly and understood it a bit more clearly we'd have none of what you mentioned before. Don't forget people exploit the Bible as they do money, people etc. That is evil doing those things so innocent people like you are going to not beleive in God. The old saying:

"The biggest trick Satan can perform, is convincing man he doesn't exist".

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Homosexuality is forbidden by God and for a good reason. Taxes.

I don't understand.

Just a bit of humour. Its wrong, you know it is, the human parts of reproduction were never designed for them to do that.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian?

Of course I am. But I did not say it in this post therefore it is irrelevant otherwise I would have put it down.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Whether or you deem it irrelevant or not does not mean I have to agree with it. If we were to believe this ad hominem on atheism, that still would not mean that any one particular religion - Christianity per example - were more believable.
What if not believing in racism was because one were not loved enough during childhood? That doesn't say whether one should be a racist in regards to what race. Saddam Hussein and Hitler had very different views on what the Master Race was.
Even if your argument held up, you would still have the biggest argument in front of you.

Don't twist this by bringing in racism. I NEVER MADE THAT POINT. I am on religion and my point is of atheism from childhood circumstances, not racism from childhood circumstances, I am not discussing that, that is completley out of context. My argument doesn't hold up at this point because you have introduced racism to which is not compatiable with my original thesis, just as General relativity breaks down in a black hole, so will this topic if you don't stick to the original point.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

What feelings from what background? You don't know me.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Your interperetation seemed a bit too 'strong' or would passionate be a more appropriate word?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Too strong for what?

...

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian? I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you a Christian.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I am Christian 100% I just did not want it to be relevant in my first post (as I've already explained).

You didn't want it to be relevant? Either you think it is or it isn't, I hardly see what you wanting has to do with it. Wanting God to exist doesn't make him appear 'in a puff of logic'.

What are you on about? Relevance to this topic reference my beliefs IS IRRELEVANT. The topic is about atheism derived from childhood AND ONLY THAT. My beleif has no bearing on the original point, I thought I made that clear.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

You are really making quick judgments about my character without knowing me at all.

Wrong. I am assuming your ways based on your response to my post. Like I would respond to your verbal tone, or body language, or simply what you would say in a face to face encounter. I think you are a very kind person. I didn't mean ALL atheists were angry, I assume that it is probable that is so, that's why on the title of the post there is a question mark, which means: Is this true? NOT THAT I ASSUME ALL ATHEISTS TO BE ANGRY!

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

trying?

Why are you wasting time engaging me on a typo?

I give up. I'm off to bed.

(asl and pic please in my inbox)

4(e) Before replying, please ask yourself the following question: "Does my reply offer any significant advice or help contribute to the conversation in any fashion?" If not, do not post it as it will be considered spam.

Friendly advise: Don't try to insult me. I am an administrator after all. The least you can do is be friendly to the people who are receiving you. who are trying to make sure all the members have the best experience possible.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

INSULTS!? What about the ones I get everytime I hear 'Oh theres been another bombing in Iraq, if Religion didn't exist we'd have no problems like this' How do you think I am going to be at that? Insulted? You bet I am!

You appear quite angry, calm down, please.

Perhaps the problem here is that you're unable to disassociate yourself from your religion and are taking comments towards your religion as personal. Your religion WILL be ridiculed, get used to it.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Don't try to insult me. I am an administrator after all. The least you can do is be friendly to the people who are receiving you. who are trying to make sure all the members have the best experience possible.

hahahaha using your powers to convince people? That just added humour to this topic, although I must admit that you are right. She has become angry though.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by svwillmer

INSULTS!? What about the ones I get everytime I hear 'Oh theres been another bombing in Iraq, if Religion didn't exist we'd have no problems like this' How do you think I am going to be at that? Insulted? You bet I am!

You appear quite angry, calm down, please.

Perhaps the problem here is that you're unable to disassociate yourself from your religion and are taking comments towards your religion as personal. Your religion WILL be ridiculed, get used to it.

I'm not angry, I'm just using excalmation marks to get across my point of view to people whom can only communicate through anger on such a touchy subject as this.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

trying?

Why are you wasting time engaging me on a typo?

I give up. I'm off to bed.

(asl and pic please in my inbox)

4(e) Before replying, please ask yourself the following question: "Does my reply offer any significant advice or help contribute to the conversation in any fashion?" If not, do not post it as it will be considered spam.

Friendly advise: Don't try to insult me. I am an administrator after all. The least you can do is be friendly to the people who are receiving you. who are trying to make sure all the members have the best experience possible.

I am not insulting you. You were posting off topic not me. Twice! I am on the same side of your fence on this one and yet you still find a reason to argue. It is not good for my experience to bet pulled up on a typo when I am in full flow. I am entitled to a nice experience too am I not? Or am I not?

re the asl thing. Iassumed you picking me up on typo's was some sort of scientist courtship ritual and figured I should at least know what's on offer.

But I shall consider this matter closed. Good night.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

I am not an atheist and he's made me angry!

judgemental hypocrite

I am angry SVWIllmer which proves you WRONG. I beleive in GOD, I talk to him every day, and guess what he agree's with me.

I believe in God, ah but no religion , that's what makes the difference according to you isn't it SVW.

We have to be a member of the fan club or we aren't 'nice'.

You get out of that box you live in and start mixing in the real world, then get back to me.

Your angry, I'm right. Your angry, I'm right, Your angry, I'm right, Your angry, I'm right, I'm angry, Your right. WAIT! DAMMIT!

Seriosuly though ToR If you beleived in God you would not lash out at me like that. And what is faith without deeds hm? Deeds without faith.

You beleive in God but have no religion and you think thats what makes the difference to me? It depends on what you mean by religion. If you beleive in God then you are not atheist, therefore you are not part of the original concept THEREFORE your comment will be striken from the record. Now does anyone else have the eeby jeebies? No, good! So shut up!

Member of the fan club? Not nice if not? I never said that, again this is down to human interperetation. One story gets told, another gets passed on.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you are saying that you are privy to God's intentions?

If people read the Bible proporly and understood it a bit more clearly we'd have none of what you mentioned before. Don't forget people exploit the Bible as they do money, people etc. That is evil doing those things so innocent people like you are going to not beleive in God. The old saying:

"The biggest trick Satan can perform, is convincing man he doesn't exist".

So I was supposedly deprived of love so I wouldn't believe in God? Also, how do you know you are not exploiting the bible? How do you know that your interpretation is somehow superior to that of others?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Homosexuality is forbidden by God and for a good reason. Taxes.

I don't understand.

Just a bit of humour.

That's okay, I don't think jokes about Jews and the holocaust are funny either.

Its wrong, you know it is, the human parts of reproduction were never designed for them to do that.

What? How do you know that? The reproductive system wasn't designed for anything. They have a role in reproduction, that doesn't mean that's their sole purpose. Indeed, from time to time I have used my 'reproductive' purpose for non-reproductive enjoyment.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian?

Of course I am. But I did not say it in this post therefore it is irrelevant otherwise I would have put it down.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Whether or you deem it irrelevant or not does not mean I have to agree with it. If we were to believe this ad hominem on atheism, that still would not mean that any one particular religion - Christianity per example - were more believable.
What if not believing in racism was because one were not loved enough during childhood? That doesn't say whether one should be a racist in regards to what race. Saddam Hussein and Hitler had very different views on what the Master Race was.
Even if your argument held up, you would still have the biggest argument in front of you.

Don't twist this by bringing in racism. I NEVER MADE THAT POINT. I am on religion and my point is of atheism from childhood circumstances, not racism from childhood circumstances, I am not discussing that, that is completley out of context. My argument doesn't hold up at this point because you have introduced racism to which is not compatiable with my original thesis, just as General relativity breaks down in a black hole, so will this topic if you don't stick to the original point.

I guess the analogy wasn't clear. I was arguing that the origin of a lack of a certain ideology of viewpoint doesn't say anything about the veracity of a particular ideology or viewpoint.

If one must be evil to be apolitical, that doesn't mean being a democrat is a good thing. Even if you make that case, you still have to show that being a democrat is good.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

What feelings from what background? You don't know me.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Your interperetation seemed a bit too 'strong' or would passionate be a more appropriate word?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

Too strong for what?

...

You said my interpretation was too strong or passionate - why is that? What did you think was too strong exactly?

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you aren't a Christian? I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you a Christian.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I am Christian 100% I just did not want it to be relevant in my first post (as I've already explained).

You didn't want it to be relevant? Either you think it is or it isn't, I hardly see what you wanting has to do with it. Wanting God to exist doesn't make him appear 'in a puff of logic'.

What are you on about? Relevance to this topic reference my beliefs IS IRRELEVANT. The topic is about atheism derived from childhood AND ONLY THAT. My beleif has no bearing on the original point, I thought I made that clear.

So you are saying that if you were an atheist you would still make this thread? :|

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I'm angry, Your right. WAIT! DAMMIT!

I assume that concludes this drama and you will now apologise to all the nice atheists you have offended. :wink:

Meanwhile be reassured that I will defend religion if I feel the need as I have done previously. But this nonsense you posted here today does religion (or you) no favours.

*things I have to go through to make a point*

Night night

x

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Your angry, I'm right. Your angry, I'm right, Your angry, I'm right, You're....

... Flame baiting.

Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

So you are saying that if you were an atheist you would still make this thread? :|

Yes. Maybe.

Originally Posted by TvEye

... Flame baiting.

Wrong, humour.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I'm angry, Your right. WAIT! DAMMIT!

I assume that concludes this drama and you will now apologise to all the nice atheists you have offended. :wink:

Meanwhile be reassured that I will defend religion if I feel the need as I have done previously. But this nonsense you posted here today does religion (or you) no favours.

*things I have to go through to make a point*

Night night

x

Does religion no favours. *SLAPS FOREHEAD*

NO! MY WORD IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM REPRESENTS THE BIBLE OR WHAT GOD OR JESUS OR ANY OTHER RELIGION SAYS. DON'T TAKE MY WORD AS THE TRUTH. IT MAY BE OFF DUE TO HUMAN ERROR.

...Maybe this is a test for me...To see if I can control myself...to control how I treat others...maybe I should be meeker from now on and not post anything like this that can offend anyone...I'm sorry if I have offended any of you...as I'm sure I have...

Originally Posted by svwillmer

...Maybe this is a test for me...To see if I can control myself...to control how I treat others...maybe I should be meeker from now on and not post anything like this that can offend anyone...I'm sorry if I have offended any of you...as I'm sure I have...

Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his Nike trainers

Don't analyse why people are different to you, just accept that they are. Don't assume all those in your 'club' are the same as you, because they
are not.

Be grateful for lessons learned and never regret them.

Atheism derives from childhood deprivation?

Well then, no. That’s naive. As someone already stated, you get two types of atheists: Those that reject god as a result of being angry at him, and those that do not believe in him as a result of recognizing the bible and other religious texts to be a collection of fairy tales and historical events tainted by the supposed involvement of a deity. The first example does not hold as a definition for atheism, as they still believe in the thing that they are angry at.

Now, as to if atheists are ANGRY as a result of a deprived upbringing? Again, no. That’s naïve too. Religion merely serves as justification for the way someone WANTS to behave. People are people, atheist and theist alike. You want to kill Jews? Find some justification the bible. You want to turn your life around and be productive, considerate, and less hateful? Find some justification in the bible and religion. But the thing is, most people have a built in moral compass: Do to others as you’d be done by. If you have some capacity for understanding yourself and others, that is all you will ever need. So all people, atheist and theist alike, are capable of understanding both themselves and others. So whether one allows this understanding to come to the front or not governs if you’ll be angry or not.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Seriosuly though ToR If you beleived in God you would not lash out at me like that. And what is faith without deeds hm? Deeds without faith.

svwillmer, this and other comments you have made leads me to believe that your idea of what a makes a truly religious person is not the same as what other people believe makes a truly religious person. You're even making value judgements on what it means to believe in god. I have no doubts that ToR believes in god. And yet you're saying that true belief in god is accompanied by specific behaviors. It's all very arbitrary. And by being so, you put yourself in a position to decide who is religious and who isn't, so you get to choose those angry people who don't believe exactly the same as what you believe, and make the sweeping generalization that we must have had terrible nasty parents who didn't love us.

This is a very unscientific way of laying out your thoughts. I think you need to better clarify to yourself exactly what you're trying to say before you say it. You'll also be in a much better position to debate with other people once you've clarified for yourself and everybody else exactly what you mean.

Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

I think I still must learn the second one. I think I finally have. Thanks you guys!

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The kingdom of God is within you.

Originally Posted by Mathew 7:1

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

And that one

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

This is a science forum. Please provide some justification for your belief, other than your own anecdotal evidence. A study, perhaps, correlating childhood deprivaton with atheism would be interesting. I assume you know of such, or you wouldn't be making this claim would you?

EDIT: Also, your line of thinking is based upon an unproven premise. God exists, therefore nonbelievers are wrong, therefore they must have a psychological reason for thinking that way, therefore etc.

If you think that way, you have to prove god exists. So far, your "psychological analysis" is nothing but delusional tripe based upon your faith. Prove god exists. /EDIT

Since I have a lot of experience with psychological analysis, I think I can clear up some confusion here. Although I would have liked to have been the first responder rather than join so late in a mixed up discussion...

As for you, Svwillmer, you are horrible with psychology. You have no talent in it whatsoever. And that's putting it lightly. I advise you actually pick up a book and learn to analyze things properly before you jump to conclusions. I'll correct your inaccuracies as I go along.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature. Relgious people however are not from the ones I know.

More often than not you observe outrage brought about by our impatience. We can only refute the same argument a few hundred times before our patience starts running thin. We're human, after all.

An interesting point is that, unlike religious types, we don't have some fictitious being to pray to that will promise us 40 virgins if we keep at it. We only have the realization that so many people are ignorant of basic facts taught in grade school.

A lot of anger, for any intelligent person, is based upon how unintelligent they observe others to be. When intelligence is minority, you're bound to get very impatient sooner or later. Some people just refuse to learn.

For example, myself and Mazhara are very peaceful natured folk, and why? Because we had good emotional attachment as children and were taught that the world is the way it is.

False antecedent. Mazhara uses his religious experiences as a mental "programming" that allows him to fake peace. Unless you define "peaceful nature" as "blissfully ignorant", you're quite wrong.

The non-believers on this forum are generally peaceful. The problem is that we, like all humans, lack patience when someone claims something blatantly false. It's like someone making a pseudoscience claim about the Illuminati.

But that emotional attachment we gained as children allowed us to love others even though others were not nice to us, so our adopted ways from childhood become a part of our nature and hence aggression atheists learn due to their raising inflicts onto others-especially those who are not angry.

Again, a false claim. It isn't your emotional attachment from childhood, but your delusional attachment to your beliefs. You probably believe there is good in everyone, etc. Such optimistic beliefs generally add a "layer" of mental defense that shields yourself from admitting the truth.

It is hardly related to childhood. Although some defense mechanisms are constructed during youth (such as your self image).

On the other hand, nonbelievers generally lack the delusional optimism. I wouldn't be incorrect if I said theists are the most optimistic people you'll ever meet. Reasons for this stem from their religion and brainwashed optimism, not from emotional attachment.

In fact, most JW's (the most optimistic I've seen so far) come from very troubled childhoods. Such optimism, and faith, generally comes from a troubled past. Not a healthy one. Most psychologists agree with me, if you do some googling.

The old 'reverse psychology' routine, peaceful people naturally would like a peacful response, but if they don't get it? Their response is peaceful. But an aggressive person wants an aggressive response (I get this all the time with those I know), but when they don't? They become aggressive.

Again, little to no understanding of what's going on. A balanced person will chance his reactions appropriate to the situation (as most nonbelievers do). However, theists normally try to apply false optimism to every situation regardless of what the rational response would be.

This can lead to many problems, including excessive optimism to cope with increasingly detrimental situations. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias

Unfortunatley this is a cache 22 situation when it comes to atheists as they are in a pardoxical state of mind were questioning of faith, rules beliefs etc causes them to deny the existence of something they cannot understand, something they cannot understand because they are aggressive of it and cannot approach it in a peaceful manner. This is probably the reason why peacful people find religion-because it takesa peaceful way to understand it.

Now you start your baseless preaching. And I admit, I'm slightly enraged by how shallow you believe nonbelievers to be. Especially because your description is wrong (I would be fine if it wasn't).

Religion, more often than not, requires an uneducated mind to be a part of. This is why the majority of religious people lack a proper education, or have a few psychological ailments.

Regular people are not without their mental difficulties, of course, but they handle it in a way meant to handle it. Theists normally go for optimism bias as a defense mechanism to traumatic situations/memories.

Peaceful people do not find religion. Ignorant people do.

It has just hit me, it is going to be harder for an aggressive person to believe as there aggression may be incorporated into belief as their psychological composition cannot change so easily and, of course enter religious aggression (a.k.a fanatacism, example-taliban).

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

And I call this delusion. You are unwilling to accept that people lose faith in religion based upon evidence. Instead, you're jumping onto a psychology bandwagon you are uneducated in.

If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have been searching for alternative explanations to begin with.

I am athiest and you are correct I am angry. Religion has caused so much trouble. Religion has killed millions of people. Ussually when people kill other people, yes it does make me angry, just as the Iraq war (religous) makes me angry as well. I hate it when people will judge you on your atheism. There can only be peace with anger. Without anger we would have accepted the hollacust as something good. Without anger we would except that tribal genicide in Africa is ok, but we have anger towards it making it less likely to happen again. Anger does derive from passion and anger is needed for long-term peace.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

This I believe is the reason for atheism, childhood deprivation.

Atheism is about people exercising common sense. Deprived or not, you're not a child forever. No adult should live their life based on decisions made as a child.

[quote="svwillmer"]

The kingdom of God is within you

Exactly, hence no need for religion.

BUT if you want to form a fan club that does NOT alienate/harm/judge other human beings then that's fine and dandy. Problem is, religion does harm other people.

Imagine you were in charge of the world and decided based on your 'judgement' that all atheists should be locked up because YOU have 'evidence' they are all 'angry, hateful and responsible for all sufferring in the world.

That IS what you said by the way.
"anger leads to hate , leads to sufferring"

I am glad you have seen the error of your ways.

God loves atheists TOO SVW, HE created them afterall!

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by svwillmer

This I believe is the reason for atheism, childhood deprivation.

Atheism is about people exercising common sense. .

Another stupid comment.

I have bundles of common sense and have held very responsible positions as a result. Belief has zippo to do with common sense. It's a choice for many and in my case based on observation.

LIVE and let LIVE.

Neither group needs to be so judgemental and rude to the other in order to express themselves.

http://w-uh.com/posts/031226a-religion_vs_IQ.html

A start. Religion doesn't cause stupidity/ignorance. Stupidity/ignorance causes religion. But make your own conclusions, I don't feel like bothering any deeper than that. COMMON sense is, of course, mislabeling (the COMMON sense is that God exists, after all).

What you probably meant was "Atheism is an exercise in rationality". Which is also wrong in its own right, but it's better than your semantics error.

My IQ is 126, what does that mean Jeremy?

It means you probably took some ridiculous online test that I get an IQ of 140+ on.

Still, I never use single tests to verify anything. But when someone is better on multiple spectrums (IQ, puzzles, logical problems), that probably proves greater intelligence.

Nevertheless, I did not deny there are "intelligent" theists. I merely insinuated that most of them aren't.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

My IQ is 126, what does that mean Jeremy?

Not very much. 126 isn't particularly intelligent. Above average, yes. But by no stretch does an IQ of 126 constitute a high level of intelligence.

It's akin to saying, "I can beat everyone at my chess club, therefore my opinion on the playability of Grob's Attack deserves the attention of grandmasters the world over".

Pardon my vitriol, but - aside from IQ being a meaningless standard - posting your results on an open forum constitutes a sensibility offense. (And try add thirty points next time)

"People who boast about their IQ are losers." - Stephen Hawking.

Now now, 26 points is somewhat significant if it was a properly administered test. The AVERAGE is, after all, 100.

Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht

Now now, 26 points is somewhat significant if it was a properly administered test. The AVERAGE is, after all, 100.

Significant enough to let the world know on open forum? If B is better looking than A, does that necessarily mean that B is good looking?

Discussing your IQ is is the young academic's version of comparative muscle flexing. Some things should be kept to yourself: income, IQ, length of penis... Modesty is a virtue.

Perhaps, but it's relevant in a discussion where you equate IQ to religion. If just randomly mentioned for superiority purposes, you have a point. In this case I don't believe it was.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I had a lot of love as a child, a lot of anger too. But the point is that I had love and that love now to this day has overcome that anger.

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature. Relgious people however are not from the ones I know.

Good old generalisation, maybe your being very selective with you member choice(all two), weve had many aggressive religious folk on here also

Maybe we should all be more passive humans like the religious folk, eg saddam, bush, bin laden etc etc etc

you really are in a bubble and have no concept of reality

Now this piece is priceless, i may have to save this for future reference

Because we had good emotional attachment as children and were taught that the world is the way it is. But that emotional attachment we gained as children allowed us to love others even though others were not nice to us, so our adopted ways from childhood become a part of our nature and hence aggression atheists learn due to their raising inflicts onto others-especially those who are not angry

and even more seriously dude, either your totally deluded and so brainwashed your far beyond help, or your trolling(which i personally believe)

Unfortunatley this is a cache 22 situation when it comes to atheists as they are in a pardoxical state of mind were questioning of faith, rules beliefs etc causes them to deny the existence of something they cannot understand, something they cannot understand because they are aggressive of it and cannot approach it in a peaceful manner. This is probably the reason why peacful people find religion-because it takesa peaceful way to understand it.

and the jackpot crackpot comment

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

My IQ is 126, what does that mean Jeremy?

it means its 11 points lower than mine , a proud 3g athiest, your point is what?

Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht

Perhaps, but it's relevant in a discussion where you equate IQ to religion. If just randomly mentioned for superiority purposes, you have a point. In this case I don't believe it was.

In the context of this topic, you could always go with, "I know my IQ and it's reasonably high". Even that, however, is absurdly vacuous. IQ does not automatically disqualify ignorance in a given field. Nor does it even guarantee potential aptitude.

But perhaps I am flogging the horse for the sake of flogging the horse

Perhaps, but you do make a worthwhile point. It has been duly noted. Thank you.

Firstly I like to think that more often than not this alleged "anger" (supposedly uncommonly frequent in atheists) is confined to people's ideas and arguments and generally personal attacks are rarely made. Perhaps theists are more likely to equate one with the other (yes, this is just conjecture, I have no supporting evidence).

Secondly, would it be more accurate to say that it is *frustration* being experienced by our hypothetical atheist? Theists often begin arguments with atheists in a manner which suggests they are willing to argue in terms of reason and logic, sometimes even incorporating some science, and then refuse to argue clearly and consistently. After a few tens of rounds of "that's what I said but not what I meant", "it depends on your interpretation", "nothing can ever be proved or disproved", or especially "my argument doesn't need to stand up to scientific reason" (all of which may sometimes bear some merit but are often used profusely to dodge and weave and support otherwise very weak arguments) I know I at least tend to become frustrated.

Finally, what is wrong with the occasional bout of anger? It's better to be able to show anger in a controlled way then to bottle it up.

Also, maybe a little off topic but Jeremy mentioned the great amount of optimism shown by theists. This is surely true in respect to their own fate after death but cannot be said to extend to the future of the human race (I should probably confine this to Christianity). I for one consider society to be on the improve, not to have started in perfection and be slowly degrading towards an inevitable apocalypse.

But then again maybe anger is clouding my judgement.

What I find most amazing is that someone actually READS what I write.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I had a lot of love as a child, a lot of anger too. But the point is that I had love and that love now to this day has overcome that anger.

I see many atheists and have NEVER met one was peaceful. All I have witnessed (even on this forum) are very angry by nature. Relgious people however are not from the ones I know. For example, myself and Mazhara are very peaceful natured folk, and why? Because we had good emotional attachment as children and were taught that the world is the way it is. But that emotional attachment we gained as children allowed us to love others even though others were not nice to us, so our adopted ways from childhood become a part of our nature and hence aggression atheists learn due to their raising inflicts onto others-especially those who are not angry. The old 'reverse psychology' routine, peaceful people naturally would like a peacful response, but if they don't get it? Their response is peaceful. But an aggressive person wants an aggressive response (I get this all the time with those I know), but when they don't? They become aggressive. Unfortunatley this is a cache 22 situation when it comes to atheists as they are in a pardoxical state of mind were questioning of faith, rules beliefs etc causes them to deny the existence of something they cannot understand, something they cannot understand because they are aggressive of it and cannot approach it in a peaceful manner. This is probably the reason why peacful people find religion-because it takesa peaceful way to understand it.

It has just hit me, it is going to be harder for an aggressive person to believe as there aggression may be incorporated into belief as their psychological composition cannot change so easily and, of course enter religious aggression (a.k.a fanatacism, example-taliban).

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

I had a lot of love as a child. And very little anger. The point is that the love I had quite overwhlemed what little anger there might have been.

I see many religious people and not one of them is truly happy or peaceful. Always they seem to be seeking something they haven't yet got. Always they seem so insecure in their beliefs that they are constantly looking for reing=forcement and reassurance from others, to the extent that many are quite prepared to cointemplate the destruction of large swathes of other humans in order that their points should prevail.

I've often wondered if this might be because of some form of deprivation of true secure love as children - that they constantly feel the need to establsih a relationship with some entity that is invisible, inaudible and impotent?

How else explain the passive-aggressive way in which they attempt to patronise others who are not of their ilk?

Could religious belief be a sign of mental pathology?

What do you all think?

Or is a post or a thread like this quite simply naked aggression posturing as analysis and debate?

i still think its pure and simple trolling, or at least i hope it is

I have often thought about this and I have come to realise that being faithful and fearful go hand in hand. Religion is the tool of oppression, and man made God out of ignorance and fear.

(Please note that I generalized billions of people much like svwillmer did).

No but seriously, saying that atheists are angry because they refuse to let their lives be governed by what was written down by mortal men two milleniums ago is just plain stupid. The general difference between atheists and believers (which I have noted in my life) is that atheists are content with being what they are, while believers feel that they have to tell the world that they are right. Since they are not willing to accept that anyone sees the world with different eyes, this leads to much anger and frustration.

On another note, just because virtually all wars in the past and present (and probably the future) are fought over religion, does not make it religions war. Remember, war is much like religion, made by man.

Originally Posted by Rasti

I have often thought about this and I have come to realise that being faithful and fearful go hand in hand. Religion is the tool of oppression, and man made God out of ignorance and fear.

(Please note that I generalized billions of people much like svwillmer did).

No but seriously, saying that atheists are angry because they refuse to let their lives be governed by what was written down by mortal men two milleniums ago is just plain stupid. The general difference between atheists and believers (which I have noted in my life) is that atheists are content with being what they are, while believers feel that they have to tell the world that they are right. Since they are not willing to accept that anyone sees the world with different eyes, this leads to much anger and frustration.

well said

Originally Posted by TvEye

ot very much. 126 isn't particularly intelligent. Above average, yes. But by no stretch does an IQ of 126 constitute a high level of intelligence.

It's akin to saying, "I can beat everyone at my chess club, therefore my opinion on the playability of Grob's Attack deserves the attention of grandmasters the world over".

Pardon my vitriol, but - aside from IQ being a meaningless standard - posting your results on an open forum constitutes a sensibility offense. (And try add thirty points next time)

"People who boast about their IQ are losers." - Stephen Hawking.

I only said it because I have religion and have a particularly high IQ reference that graph and just wondered if I was an 'extreme variable'. I wan't boasting about it or anything. I was being honest, I thought we talked about not judging people last night and I have learned my lesson, I am confused however as I was merley trying to dicsuss things.

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

and the jackpot crackpot comment

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

It was just an idea I had, I didn't mean it to be true, thats why I put a question mark at the end on the topic title. Please don't offend me because I just had an idea. I'm young and still need to grasp a lot of things in the world, please don't shun me because I may not yet know as much as you.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I'm young

How old are you SV - out of interest?

Originally Posted by wonkothesane

Firstly I like to think that more often than not this alleged "anger" (supposedly uncommonly frequent in atheists) is confined to people's ideas and arguments and generally personal attacks are rarely made. Perhaps theists are more likely to equate one with the other (yes, this is just conjecture, I have no supporting evidence).

Secondly, would it be more accurate to say that it is *frustration* being experienced by our hypothetical atheist? Theists often begin arguments with atheists in a manner which suggests they are willing to argue in terms of reason and logic, sometimes even incorporating some science, and then refuse to argue clearly and consistently. After a few tens of rounds of "that's what I said but not what I meant", "it depends on your interpretation", "nothing can ever be proved or disproved", or especially "my argument doesn't need to stand up to scientific reason" (all of which may sometimes bear some merit but are often used profusely to dodge and weave and support otherwise very weak arguments) I know I at least tend to become frustrated.

Finally, what is wrong with the occasional bout of anger? It's better to be able to show anger in a controlled way then to bottle it up.

Also, maybe a little off topic but Jeremy mentioned the great amount of optimism shown by theists. This is surely true in respect to their own fate after death but cannot be said to extend to the future of the human race (I should probably confine this to Christianity). I for one consider society to be on the improve, not to have started in perfection and be slowly degrading towards an inevitable apocalypse.

But then again maybe anger is clouding my judgement.

Thanks for your comments wonkothesane. I am humbled by your response in that you have been considerate of the idea I put forwards, were others have been rude. I am aware I have been rude earlier and have apologised for it but again thank you for being understanding

Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio

Could religious belief be a sign of mental pathology?

Some people may take offense to this, I haven't because I have learned my lesson. But it can be taken the same way as others took my original post question. Where I reffered to psychological description (even if vauge Jeremy), this saying it is 'mental disease', I cannot even think that let alone debate this. Say its mental sheilding if you like, but to me it is obideience to not talk of such a way of describing religion (even though it seems an ok question to the querier). So basically all I'm saying is 'I cannot discuss if that is the case or not'. Everything is relative to the observor.

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

i still think its pure and simple trolling, or at least i hope it is

I think I was, it was just an idea anyways in the first place-I just went along line by line.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I'm young

How old are you SV - out of interest?

I'm not going to be open about it, but I'll let you guess and say if your warm or cold. :wink:

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by svwillmer

I'm young

How old are you SV - out of interest?

I'm not going to be open about it, but I'll let you guess and say if your warm or cold. :wink:

14

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

14

Antarctica

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

14

Antarctica

Isn't it melting?

Seriously, let's not turn this into a guessing game. PM's exist for exchanging this kind of information.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by svwillmer

This I believe is the reason for atheism, childhood deprivation.

Atheism is about people exercising common sense. .

Another stupid comment.

I have bundles of common sense and have held very responsible positions as a result. Belief has zippo to do with common sense. It's a choice for many and in my case based on observation.

LIVE and let LIVE.

Neither group needs to be so judgemental and rude to the other in order to express themselves.

Oh yes, I forgot. Common sense tells me to smear myself with cow dung, flagellate myself with whips until I bleed, nail myself to a cross if I feel inclined, refuse blood transfusions to save a life, or take part in what appears to be a seemingly unending list of useless rituals all in the interest of endearing myself to my Lord.

Common sense has a lot to do with atheism, I didn't say it had a lot to do with being a theist. You just confirmed my original statement, belief does have zippo to do with common sense. Remember, you said it!

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

...belief does have zippo to do with common sense...

You know what, you're absolutley right and that is one hell of a compliment.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Oh yes, I forgot. Common sense tells me to smear myself with cow dung, flagellate myself with whips until I bleed, nail myself to a cross if I feel inclined, refuse blood transfusions to save a life, or take part in what appears to be a seemingly unending list of useless rituals all in the interest of endearing myself to my Lord.

Common sense has a lot to do with atheism, I didn't say it had a lot to do with being a theist. You just confirmed my original statement, belief does have zippo to do with common sense. Remember, you said it!

who the eck do you hang out with?

No theists I know carry on like that! lol

Talk about 'out there' could you get any further!

re the blood transfusion thing
http://www.problogs.com/Post3475.htm

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

...belief does have zippo to do with common sense...

You know what, you're absolutley right and that is one hell of a compliment.

All I said was that atheists exercise common sense. As far as I know atheists do not believe in God. Therefore they have formed that opinion based on observation and analysis and have arrived at a very sensible conclusion.

Meanwhile I have not mentioned the theist because I tried to stay on topic. Draw your own conclusions there. Common sense told me not to include the theist in my original post. You & ToR have both responded in a seemingly opposite fashion but in the end you both agree that common sense has nothing to do with belief. I'm sure atheists have many beliefs but they do not share one in god, and that is what I was referring to.

So, how is that complimentary? Just so you know, I realize that whatever is said about atheists can be inferred as a anti-theist, seeing how religion is a touchy subject.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

and the jackpot crackpot comment

This I believe is the reason for athesim, childhood deprivation.

It was just an idea I had, I didn't mean it to be true, thats why I put a question mark at the end on the topic title. Please don't offend me because I just had an idea. I'm young and still need to grasp a lot of things in the world, please don't shun me because I may not yet know as much as you.

well fair enough you may be young :-D , but that is a totally arrogant generalised statement to make

Like ive mentioned before, i am a 3rd generation atheist and am a caring person full of empathy, my childhood was good, loving etc etc

My reason for atheism as with many others comes down to the realisation of the real world all around me, at the age of 7-9 i naturally disguarded the comfort blankets of childhood, like santa, the tooth fairy and god

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

...at the age of 7-9 i naturally disguarded the comfort blankets of childhood, like santa, the tooth fairy and god

Curious, I still believe in Santa, but not the tooth fairy. Very queer.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

...at the age of 7-9 i naturally disguarded the comfort blankets of childhood, like santa, the tooth fairy and god

Curious, I still believe in Santa, but not the tooth fairy. Very queer.

well thers the reason your religious, naivity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

...at the age of 7-9 i naturally disguarded the comfort blankets of childhood, like santa, the tooth fairy and god

Curious, I still believe in Santa, but not the tooth fairy. Very queer.

well thers the reason your religious, naivity

Naievity is defined as:

lack of sophistication or worldliness.

*WARM SMILE APPEARS ON FACE*

If one day you read the Bible, remember this conversation and I'm sure the same warm smile will appear :wink: :-D.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

...at the age of 7-9 i naturally disguarded the comfort blankets of childhood, like santa, the tooth fairy and god

Curious, I still believe in Santa, but not the tooth fairy. Very queer.

well thers the reason your religious, naivity

Naievity is defined as:

lack of sophistication or worldliness.

*WARM SMILE APPEARS ON FACE*

If one day you read the Bible, remember this conversation and I'm sure the same warm smile will appear :wink: :-D.

Or you could use...........

tendency to believe too readily and therefore to be easily deceived

*even warmer smile appears on my face*


heres one for you :wink:

arrogance

an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, i found it very poorly written and saw the ending coming a mile off, its no Tolkien , maybe the sequel will be better To be honest, i'd rather stick to factual books :wink:

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

You'd be even more shocked to find that at least 60% of all religious people in the united states were "force fed" the bible. Then again you probably wouldn't be interested in an interesting correlation made between average nation IQ and higher rates of nonbelief...

So yes. Stick to your baseless and absurd psychiatric diagnosis. It has worked well so far.

Generally, I don't know about others, but I hang around this forum in the hope someone learns something from the incessant babble that ensues. The only time I display outrage is with extra-stupid replies.

Hence why I reply to you. A person that has me on ignore because I keep calling you out on your bullshit.

I would rather be angry than peaceful.


PEACE: Fragile - Drugged - Aloof - Stale - Bland - Boring - Uniformity - Dispassionate - One who is content with mediocracy - Unnaturally passive - Bovine submissiveness - Clean to a fault - One who hides in fear - Weak.

ANGER: Power - Drive - Ambition - Determination - Vitality - Individuality - A heighten state of awareness - A heighten sense of purposes - Predatorial defiance - Dirty, covered in raw Earth - One who embraces fear - Strong


Faith is kind of sickly sweet syrup that rots your teeth and poisons your mind. So it offers you a state of inner peace, what good is peace? One should never get too comfortable...and for good reason. Gods favor slaves but slaves can revolt. So how do you, a God among men, keep slaves from doing this? Well, fear is one method but even more effective is to make sure they're content. Give them treats from time to time, feelings of warmth and security; keep their minds preoccupied, their judgment clouded.

I will most likely never attain any kind of spiritual nirvana yet I am not much bothered by this. The world is a dark and horrible place as much as it is lively and wonderful. Most things in life, good or bad, are momentary. Being pensive or melancholy about life in general is perhaps not the perfect way of living yet nothing is perfect. Further more, I'd just assume my over all out look on things remain cold and grim. Anger, rage, furry, an occasional outburst here and there; these things have always proved better mechanisms for survival than peace or shallow happiness.

At least when I am angry I know I am alive.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children,

Is this an opinion only, or do you have some cited research to back it up?

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

Its a far better more logical reason for atheism than my original idea was and given the American peoples 'natrual' zest for 'passion' in matters it seems that their opinions are not only limited to religion either. Just an observation.
*GOES INTO SHELL*

PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

arrogance

I prefer the word 'audacity'

Originally Posted by Kolt

I would rather be angry than peaceful.


PEACE: Fragile - Drugged - Aloof - Stale - Bland - Boring - Uniformity - Dispassionate - One who is content with mediocracy - Unnaturally passive - Bovine submissiveness - Clean to a fault - One who hides in fear - Weak.

ANGER: Power - Drive - Ambition - Determination - Vitality - Individuality - A heighten state of awareness - A heighten sense of purposes - Predatorial defiance - Dirty, covered in raw Earth - One who embraces fear - Strong


Faith is kind of sickly sweet syrup that rots your teeth and poisons your mind. So it offers you a state of inner peace, what good is peace? One should never get too comfortable...and for good reason. Gods favor slaves but slaves can revolt. So how do you, a God among men, keep slaves from doing this? Well, fear is one method but even more effective is to make sure they're content. Give them treats from time to time, feelings of warmth and security; keep their minds preoccupied, their judgment clouded.

I will most likely never attain any kind of spiritual nirvana yet I am not much bothered by this. The world is a dark and horrible place as much as it is lively and wonderful. Most things in life, good or bad, are momentary. Being pensive or melancholy about life in general is perhaps not the perfect way of living yet nothing is perfect. Further more, I'd just assume my over all out look on things remain cold and grim. Anger, rage, furry, an occasional outburst here and there; these things have always proved better mechanisms for survival than peace or shallow happiness.

At least when I am angry I know I am alive.

The dark side? I'm a Jedi. If that means Im weak, who wins in Star Wars?
In Christianity being true to the Bible means coming across as being weak and most definatley appears that way. I follow what it says because thats what I believe and I can explain it, even if you can't understand it.

PS My good friend, the meek shall inherit the Earth 8) .

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

again another false assumption, firstly i wasn't forced to read it, and secondly theres nothing to rebel against

My parents(and their parents) were athiests, they took the approach of sending me to sunday school from an early age with the understanding that the day i say i dont want to go, i wouldn't have to, eg letting me decide if religion is for me myself, rather than imposing their atheism on me, i made that descision as a pre teen

why are all theists so quick to pre judge and push athiests to blame others(or themselves), lets face it religion is just a crutch for the morally weak minded, its childish fantasys for people with emotional baggage

I dont have anyone to rebel against, my reasons for being anti religion are not to be rebellious, the uk population(well in my area), has a high percentage of atheists(or agnostics, or non practicing christians), so by being anti religion here wouldn't even be an issue

The reason i hate religion is because it makes people irrational and in many cases stupid and close minded(rather than that being pointed at atheists, in can be pointed at the true closed minds, religion)

I dont go out of my way to annoy religious people, infact i kind of pity them and have no reason to hate them for having a strange view on life, but at the same time if i see something that is posted that is way way out of line, ofcourse im going to comment, i mean look at the mentality in certain parts of america(the bible belt), those views are dangerous

[quote="svwillmer"]

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.

Your comments seem to read that you believe that this is only the view of theists, what do you think atheists want? a world full of anarchy and suffering?

religion is irrespective of this, religion wont cure anymore of the problems in the world that atheism cant, many of the problems in the world are down to religious views, war, persecution of gays, other religions etc etc

religion is the biggest cancer in this world, good men are good men, bad are bad, religion doesn't mean anything to either

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

I doubt many *atheist* children were force fed religion 'cos most children are branded with their parent's religion upon birth as I was a Christian child (not that I was force fed religion, just taught). Atheism is a choice I made long after my "rebellious" stage, a choice I made for my own reasons and that was made only after I had run out of ways to reconcile my own opinions and ideals with religion. Attributing atheism to teenage angst is just as condescending as the original "deprivation of love" theme of this thread. What reason have I or any other atheist to be angry with our/my/their (grammar?) parents? They only taught me what they believed best, and I don't hold that against them even if I now disagree.

Why would I participate in this forum? C'mon. The title surely points out atheists as the subject (or people that were ever children in which case I also qualify), why would they not want to voice their opinion?

"Alleged non belief"? Huh? :? I have to say this is a new one to me. I would like to know why (how?) anyone would *delude* themselves into not believing in the supernatural.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Originally Posted by Kolt

I would rather be angry than peaceful.


PEACE: Fragile - Drugged - Aloof - Stale - Bland - Boring - Uniformity - Dispassionate - One who is content with mediocracy - Unnaturally passive - Bovine submissiveness - Clean to a fault - One who hides in fear - Weak.

ANGER: Power - Drive - Ambition - Determination - Vitality - Individuality - A heighten state of awareness - A heighten sense of purposes - Predatorial defiance - Dirty, covered in raw Earth - One who embraces fear - Strong


Faith is kind of sickly sweet syrup that rots your teeth and poisons your mind. So it offers you a state of inner peace, what good is peace? One should never get too comfortable...and for good reason. Gods favor slaves but slaves can revolt. So how do you, a God among men, keep slaves from doing this? Well, fear is one method but even more effective is to make sure they're content. Give them treats from time to time, feelings of warmth and security; keep their minds preoccupied, their judgment clouded.

I will most likely never attain any kind of spiritual nirvana yet I am not much bothered by this. The world is a dark and horrible place as much as it is lively and wonderful. Most things in life, good or bad, are momentary. Being pensive or melancholy about life in general is perhaps not the perfect way of living yet nothing is perfect. Further more, I'd just assume my over all out look on things remain cold and grim. Anger, rage, furry, an occasional outburst here and there; these things have always proved better mechanisms for survival than peace or shallow happiness.

At least when I am angry I know I am alive.

The dark side? I'm a Jedi. If that means Im weak, who wins in Star Wars?
In Christianity being true to the Bible means coming across as being weak and most definatley appears that way. I follow what it says because thats what I believe and I can explain it, even if you can't understand it.

PS My good friend, the meek shall inherit the Earth 8) .

that was a typo is should actually say "the geeks shall inherit the earth" i think bill gates has made a good start at that

Originally Posted by wonkothesane

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

For your information, ive read the bible many times as a child, :

it's amazing how many atheists were force fed religion as children, this is likely part responsible for your lack of belief. It's called rebellion. Which is why after all this time, despite your alleged non belief you hang about in religious forum slating (politely) theists. It's projected anger that you should direct at your parents.

I doubt many *atheist* children were force fed religion 'cos most children are branded with their parent's religion upon birth as I was a Christian child (not that I was force fed religion, just taught). Atheism is a choice I made long after my "rebellious" stage, a choice I made for my own reasons and that was made only after I had run out of ways to reconcile my own opinions and ideals with religion. Attributing atheism to teenage angst is just as condescending as the original "deprivation of love" theme of this thread. What reason have I or any other atheist to be angry with our/my/their (grammar?) parents? They only taught me what they believed best, and I don't hold that against them even if I now disagree.

Why would I participate in this forum? C'mon. The title surely points out atheists as the subject (or people that were ever children in which case I also qualify), why would they not want to voice their opinion?

"Alleged non belief"? Huh? :? I have to say this is a new one to me. I would like to know why (how?) anyone would *delude* themselves into not believing in the supernatural.

you seem like you went down a similar path to me dude, what i dont get with theists is that if you dont believe, its because your rebelling, or deluding yourself or that you must have something to grasp onto

Have the theists actually thought that for most atheists, the subject of a diety never enters their minds for months or even years at a time, and the only reason i ever use/think of the idea of god is when i face the stupidity of the world caused by it, eg suicide bombers, those mentalists in america embarassing themselves outside soldiers funerals/rememberance services

Yeah, it's funny how some part of leaving religion behind is just the realization that, like you said, months or years go by where you are too involved with other things that you don't even *think" about it, more to the point you feel less encumbered as a result.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

In Christianity being true to the Bible means coming across as being weak and most definatley appears that way. I follow what it says because thats what I believe and I can explain it, even if you can't understand it.

PS My good friend, the meek shall inherit the Earth 8) .

........What?

Originally Posted by svwillmer

The dark side? I'm a Jedi. If that means Im weak, who wins in Star Wars?

The Star Wars movies are riddled with many different themes and motifs creating an intricate insightful subtext. However, it is a subtext aimed more towards mythology rather than religion. In no way were those movies designed to somehow support, by way of analogy, the theological construct of Christianity. The spiritual ideas in those films were implemented to serve the mythos not the other way around. And mythos is not something to be interpreted as a way of life let alone adorned by Christians.

So don't go too crazy on making fortune cookie comparisons to a series of popcorn movies

Originally Posted by wonkothesane

Yeah, it's funny how some part of leaving religion behind is just the realization that, like you said, months or years go by where you are too involved with other things that you don't even *think" about it, more to the point you feel less encumbered as a result.

yeah, to be honest, i dont think i can ever say i left religion behind, i went i listened, i learnt, but in all honesty i dont think i ever believed(or atleast not to any serious degree)

I think my mind automatically resets back to my original settings, atheism

I like to think of the human brain like a pc, its default setting is atheism with the necessery operating system to work in society, some of have antivirus/firewall/antispam/antispyware software(i like to call anti bullsh*t software) that works and picks up, scans and removes the virus's(religion/new age/spiritual etc) and means we can carry on un affected

whereas others is less workable and only filters some less potent virus's(poorly thought out conspiracy theorys/flat earth etc), meaning that the non protected(religious) allow virus's to filter into all aspects of their operating system, but allows that system to seem to work fine whereas any external scans show that all areas are not working to the full potential due to these restrictions/calculation errors(supernatural allownces/organised religious rulings)

I think i will stick to my default setting as other operating sytems use, eg other animal species(i like to think of like linux, no-one cares to write virus's for them)

sorry that was done on the fly

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

This science forum is in NO WAY reflective of normal society for starters.

well the internet is genrally not reflective of society, just look at the average comments to the most benign video on youtube

Originally Posted by svwillmer

The dark side? I'm a Jedi. If that means Im weak, who wins in Star Wars?
In Christianity being true to the Bible means coming across as being weak and most definatley appears that way. I follow what it says because thats what I believe and I can explain it, even if you can't understand it.

If the Star Wars movie are related to religion in general and the Bible in specific, Darth Wader is God and young Skywalker is Jesus, since much like Luke, Jesus never knew his father, but had only heard of him and "felt" his presence. Only in death did they ever met.