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Thread: Atheism, derives from childhood privation?

  1. #101 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    [quote="captaincaveman"]
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman




    PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.
    Your comments seem to read that you believe that this is only the view of theists, what do you think atheists want? a world full of anarchy and suffering?

    religion is irrespective of this, religion wont cure anymore of the problems in the world that atheism cant, many of the problems in the world are down to religious views, war, persecution of gays, other religions etc etc

    religion is the biggest cancer in this world, good men are good men, bad are bad, religion doesn't mean anything to either
    There are more destructive things in the world other than religion. How about greed? Want for power? Sex? It amazes me why atheists more so than theists or agnostics blame religion for a lot of things; as i say again religion isn't the only thing out there that can cause bad things. There are good things too that religion offers, look at Christian aid that they give to Africa and Iraq, other places where politics and the corrupt heart of men who have nothing to do with religion do. I see your comment and raise you 10.
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  2. #102  
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    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.



    There are good things too that religion offers, look at Christian aid that they give to Africa and Iraq, other places where politics and the corrupt heart of men who have nothing to do with religion do.
    May I ask you why you think that the poorest places on earth are places where Christian missionaries set their feet in the past. South America, Africa, India. The evil of poverty originally stems in the greed for power and wealth, which has traditionally been manifested in mainly Christianity
    You can't fool all the people all of the time, but if you fool the right ones, then the rest will fall behind
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  3. #103 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolt
    The Star Wars movies are riddled with many different themes and motifs creating an intricate insightful subtext. However, it is a subtext aimed more towards mythology rather than religion. In no way were those movies designed to somehow support, by way of analogy, the theological construct of Christianity. The spiritual ideas in those films were implemented to serve the mythos not the other way around. And mythos is not something to be interpreted as a way of life let alone adorned by Christians.

    So don't go too crazy on making fortune cookie comparisons to a series of popcorn movies
    That bit was only a bit of fun come on, what is a world without hunour, heres a famous quote:

    Laughter is God's hand on a troubled world
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  4. #104 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    [quote="svwillmer"]
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman




    PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.
    Your comments seem to read that you believe that this is only the view of theists, what do you think atheists want? a world full of anarchy and suffering?

    religion is irrespective of this, religion wont cure anymore of the problems in the world that atheism cant, many of the problems in the world are down to religious views, war, persecution of gays, other religions etc etc

    religion is the biggest cancer in this world, good men are good men, bad are bad, religion doesn't mean anything to either
    There are more destructive things in the world other than religion. How about greed? Want for power? Sex? It amazes me why atheists more so than theists or agnostics blame religion for a lot of things; as i say again religion isn't the only thing out there that can cause bad things. There are good things too that religion offers, look at Christian aid that they give to Africa and Iraq, other places where politics and the corrupt heart of men who have nothing to do with religion do. I see your comment and raise you 10.
    well lets looks at you examples, firstly greed and power also go hand in hand with religion, sex a similar thing, need i mention the many bishops with many pre-teen boys


    Ok africa, yes there are some christians over there doing good work(as well as the usual attempts at the usual missionary conversions ), but theres many many more atheist/non religious organisations doing similar work, look at the work of the G8 movement(removing/reducing 3rd world debt), live aid etc etc, that wasn't a religious movement, the work by the UN as peace keepers, that isn't a religious movement and thats without the important work of people like UNICEF, the RED CROSS neither are religious organisations, the money raised also comes from a good percentage of atheistic homes

    Religion is irrespective of that, thats the point you cant see, as i said before good men are good men and bad are bad, religion doesn't come into that

    Lets also stick with iraq and africa, where do we start

    iraq, the reason for continued deaths(and a higher percentage of deaths of civilians on a daily basis), the dissagreement between two different types of muslim, usually seen as young suicide bombers blowing up civilians(men women and children), in known, non military areas, theres religion for you

    Darfur has religious tones, israel/palestine conflicts, the list goes on
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  5. #105  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.
    Your stuck in 'religion' friend, leave religion aside here and tell me causes behind bad things.

    Heres some bad causes non-religious:

    Nazis murdering Jews, is religion at fault there?
    Racism, is religion at fault there?
    Napolean and his terror, is religion at fault there?
    Terrorism, is religion at fault there? OR IS IT BECAUSE SOMEONE INSANE INTERPERETS THE HOLY BOOKS WRONG.

    Seriously though you blame religion for the wrong doings that can be attributed to it, thats like me saying 'White people are racist to black people, therefore white people cause all the discrimination and should be gotten rid of, white people are insane. Does that aound daft? Of course it does as your comments do. You can't blame everything on religion simply because it causes problems. Taxes cause problems, family cause problems, the government causes problems and because they do do you wish to abolish them too?

    I will agree with you that the Catholic and Protostant church are greedy with money, power etc, but ALL areas of the world are: Police, government, anything with power and money WILL be exploited by someone. Don't use the evil people of religion to critisie the rest of it, for the same reason you would'nt critisise the entire government or the entire police force, in effect by doing so and scrutinising religion, you are in effect discriminating them as a lot of people do. I live my life happy by having religion-it gives me hope and other things-I don't exploit it like others will. The world is not black and white. There are good and bad in all walks of life understand that and then maybe we can share opinions like like minded adults. Thank you.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  6. #106 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    [quote="captaincaveman"]
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman




    PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.
    Your comments seem to read that you believe that this is only the view of theists, what do you think atheists want? a world full of anarchy and suffering?

    religion is irrespective of this, religion wont cure anymore of the problems in the world that atheism cant, many of the problems in the world are down to religious views, war, persecution of gays, other religions etc etc

    religion is the biggest cancer in this world, good men are good men, bad are bad, religion doesn't mean anything to either
    There are more destructive things in the world other than religion. How about greed? Want for power? Sex? It amazes me why atheists more so than theists or agnostics blame religion for a lot of things; as i say again religion isn't the only thing out there that can cause bad things. There are good things too that religion offers, look at Christian aid that they give to Africa and Iraq, other places where politics and the corrupt heart of men who have nothing to do with religion do. I see your comment and raise you 10.
    well lets looks at you examples, firstly greed and power also go hand in hand with religion, sex a similar thing, need i mention the many bishops with many pre-teen boys


    Ok africa, yes there are some christians over there doing good work(as well as the usual attempts at the usual missionary conversions ), but theres many many more atheist/non religious organisations doing similar work, look at the work of the G8 movement(removing/reducing 3rd world debt), live aid etc etc, that wasn't a religious movement, the work by the UN as peace keepers, that isn't a religious movement and thats without the important work of people like UNICEF, the RED CROSS neither are religious organisations, the money raised also comes from a good percentage of atheistic homes

    Religion is irrespective of that, thats the point you cant see, as i said before good men are good men and bad are bad, religion doesn't come into that

    Lets also stick with iraq and africa, where do we start

    iraq, the reason for continued deaths(and a higher percentage of deaths of civilians on a daily basis), the dissagreement between two different types of muslim, usually seen as young suicide bombers blowing up civilians(men women and children), in known, non military areas, theres religion for you

    Darfur has religious tones, israel/palestine conflicts, the list goes on
    Look caveman, yes religion causes A LOT of problems I agree, are we on the same page with that? But it is down to how people interperet religion...I don't go around beating every person that steals as other people may because I have interpereted that to be wrong in the Bible. I live a good happy life, I help people more than the normal population by doing charity work, putting myself out for family and friends ALL the time and I would never harm a fly so am I not a good result of religion (That is I have interpereted the Bible in a good way for that to be true). But I understand your frustration.
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  7. #107  
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    I am saying that religion is to blame for all your examples besides the Napoleonic Wars. What you seem to miss here is that I believe, which I think I said earlier, that religion is made by man, for man, and interpreted by man. As a result, everything that comes from it is religions fault. If the Catholic Church would not be so intent on sex being evil, maybe these priests would not have to revoke their natural animalistic instincts, and maybe then they wouldn't force themselves upon little boys.

    Jews have been persecuted for ages, and as a result, they where blamed for alot that went wrong in 20th century Europe, and as a result, the Nazi could convince the German people of their politics.

    Religion is also to blame for what we refer to as terrorism today. A very small percentage of the muslims feel that their religion is being infringed upon by "the West" (Christian world). Resulting from this frustration and anger, is suicide bombings, kidnappings etc.
    You can't fool all the people all of the time, but if you fool the right ones, then the rest will fall behind
    Tell me who's got control of your mind, Your world view?
    Is it the news or the movie you're taking your girl to?
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  8. #108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.
    Your stuck in 'religion' friend, leave religion aside here and tell me causes behind bad things.

    Heres some bad causes non-religious:

    Nazis murdering Jews, is religion at fault there?
    Racism, is religion at fault there?
    Napolean and his terror, is religion at fault there?
    Terrorism, is religion at fault there? OR IS IT BECAUSE SOMEONE INSANE INTERPERETS THE HOLY BOOKS WRONG.

    Seriously though you blame religion for the wrong doings that can be attributed to it, thats like me saying 'White people are racist to black people, therefore white people cause all the discrimination and should be gotten rid of, white people are insane. Does that aound daft? Of course it does as your comments do. You can't blame everything on religion simply because it causes problems. Taxes cause problems, family cause problems, the government causes problems and because they do do you wish to abolish them too?

    I will agree with you that the Catholic and Protostant church are greedy with money, power etc, but ALL areas of the world are: Police, government, anything with power and money WILL be exploited by someone. Don't use the evil people of religion to critisie the rest of it, for the same reason you would'nt critisise the entire government or the entire police force, in effect by doing so and scrutinising religion, you are in effect discriminating them as a lot of people do. I live my life happy by having religion-it gives me hope and other things-I don't exploit it like others will. The world is not black and white. There are good and bad in all walks of life understand that and then maybe we can share opinions like like minded adults. Thank you.
    well if you read my post you would see that my point is I DONT BLAME RELIGION FOR EVERYTHING, though i see some blame in certain aspects eg sunni/shite issues for example

    I see religion as having NO use for solving ANY of the issues in the world also, thats a FACT, there isn't anything that religion can solve that atheism cant

    RELIGION is still just a pointless, childish comfort blanket for those who cant make it through life, One other down side to it is that it adds another division/difference between people(along with race, sex, age,political stance, etc etc etc) and is just not necessery in the modern world, it belongs in the past with all the other backwards ideas and theologys
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  9. #109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    I am saying that religion is to blame for all your examples besides the Napoleonic Wars. What you seem to miss here is that I believe, which I think I said earlier, that religion is made by man, for man, and interpreted by man. As a result, everything that comes from it is religions fault. If the Catholic Church would not be so intent on sex being evil, maybe these priests would not have to revoke their natural animalistic instincts, and maybe then they wouldn't force themselves upon little boys.

    Jews have been persecuted for ages, and as a result, they where blamed for alot that went wrong in 20th century Europe, and as a result, the Nazi could convince the German people of their politics.

    Religion is also to blame for what we refer to as terrorism today. A very small percentage of the muslims feel that their religion is being infringed upon by "the West" (Christian world). Resulting from this frustration and anger, is suicide bombings, kidnappings etc.
    Exactly, down to interperetation
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  10. #110  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.
    Your stuck in 'religion' friend, leave religion aside here and tell me causes behind bad things.

    Heres some bad causes non-religious:

    Nazis murdering Jews, is religion at fault there?
    Racism, is religion at fault there?
    Napolean and his terror, is religion at fault there?
    Terrorism, is religion at fault there? OR IS IT BECAUSE SOMEONE INSANE INTERPERETS THE HOLY BOOKS WRONG.

    Seriously though you blame religion for the wrong doings that can be attributed to it, thats like me saying 'White people are racist to black people, therefore white people cause all the discrimination and should be gotten rid of, white people are insane. Does that aound daft? Of course it does as your comments do. You can't blame everything on religion simply because it causes problems. Taxes cause problems, family cause problems, the government causes problems and because they do do you wish to abolish them too?

    I will agree with you that the Catholic and Protostant church are greedy with money, power etc, but ALL areas of the world are: Police, government, anything with power and money WILL be exploited by someone. Don't use the evil people of religion to critisie the rest of it, for the same reason you would'nt critisise the entire government or the entire police force, in effect by doing so and scrutinising religion, you are in effect discriminating them as a lot of people do. I live my life happy by having religion-it gives me hope and other things-I don't exploit it like others will. The world is not black and white. There are good and bad in all walks of life understand that and then maybe we can share opinions like like minded adults. Thank you.
    well if you read my post you would see that my point is I DONT BLAME RELIGION FOR EVERYTHING, though i see some blame in certain aspects eg sunni/shite issues for example

    I see religion as having NO use for solving ANY of the issues in the world also, thats a FACT, there isn't anything that religion can solve that atheism cant

    RELIGION is still just a pointless, childish comfort blanket for those who cant make it through life, One other down side to it is that it adds another division/difference between people(along with race, sex, age,political stance, etc etc etc) and is just not necessery in the modern world, it belongs in the past with all the other backwards ideas and theologys
    The world is just down to interperetation at the end of it, we are all different and we all will never be the same. I recognise your point of religion being pointless and respect that as an opinion, and an opinion the same, I'm glad you've granted me that where others may not have. Are you from the UK by any chance? PM if you like.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  11. #111 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    [quote="svwillmer"]
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman




    PS Captain Caveman, I like being in this world, the world of fantasy and the world of 'what could be', and 'what will be' (if The LORDs will), it is that that makes me feel happy and not angry, rather than looking at what is wrong with the world, I look at whats good with it-that's what gets me by peacefully.
    Your comments seem to read that you believe that this is only the view of theists, what do you think atheists want? a world full of anarchy and suffering?

    religion is irrespective of this, religion wont cure anymore of the problems in the world that atheism cant, many of the problems in the world are down to religious views, war, persecution of gays, other religions etc etc

    religion is the biggest cancer in this world, good men are good men, bad are bad, religion doesn't mean anything to either
    There are more destructive things in the world other than religion. How about greed? Want for power? Sex? It amazes me why atheists more so than theists or agnostics blame religion for a lot of things; as i say again religion isn't the only thing out there that can cause bad things. There are good things too that religion offers, look at Christian aid that they give to Africa and Iraq, other places where politics and the corrupt heart of men who have nothing to do with religion do. I see your comment and raise you 10.
    well lets looks at you examples, firstly greed and power also go hand in hand with religion, sex a similar thing, need i mention the many bishops with many pre-teen boys


    Ok africa, yes there are some christians over there doing good work(as well as the usual attempts at the usual missionary conversions ), but theres many many more atheist/non religious organisations doing similar work, look at the work of the G8 movement(removing/reducing 3rd world debt), live aid etc etc, that wasn't a religious movement, the work by the UN as peace keepers, that isn't a religious movement and thats without the important work of people like UNICEF, the RED CROSS neither are religious organisations, the money raised also comes from a good percentage of atheistic homes

    Religion is irrespective of that, thats the point you cant see, as i said before good men are good men and bad are bad, religion doesn't come into that

    Lets also stick with iraq and africa, where do we start

    iraq, the reason for continued deaths(and a higher percentage of deaths of civilians on a daily basis), the dissagreement between two different types of muslim, usually seen as young suicide bombers blowing up civilians(men women and children), in known, non military areas, theres religion for you

    Darfur has religious tones, israel/palestine conflicts, the list goes on
    Look caveman, yes religion causes A LOT of problems I agree, are we on the same page with that? But it is down to how people interperet religion...I don't go around beating every person that steals as other people may because I have interpereted that to be wrong in the Bible. I live a good happy life, I help people more than the normal population by doing charity work, putting myself out for family and friends ALL the time and I would never harm a fly so am I not a good result of religion (That is I have interpereted the Bible in a good way for that to be true). But I understand your frustration.

    Again your using religion as the reason for your goodness, i too am a good person who puts himself out for freinds, family AND NEEDY STRANGERS, i too spend alot of time doing work for charities, i helped save an old baptist chapel and church roof(purely for the buildings), i ridden a motorcycle around the coast of england, scotland and wales(at my own expense) for various charitys, i do work for the security of local adder populations. there are many others like me, that isn't a religion thing. thats a human thing

    Thats the point you dont get, you do charity work and say its because of you religion, i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc

    RELIGION DOESNT=GOOD and ATHEISM=BAD there are irrespective of each other, you can list atheists who have done bad things(not necesseraly because of lack of faith), and i can list just as many who have caused the same attrocities for religion

    ITS A TOTALLY SEPERATE SUBJECT
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  12. #112  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.
    Your stuck in 'religion' friend, leave religion aside here and tell me causes behind bad things.

    Heres some bad causes non-religious:

    Nazis murdering Jews, is religion at fault there?
    Racism, is religion at fault there?
    Napolean and his terror, is religion at fault there?
    Terrorism, is religion at fault there? OR IS IT BECAUSE SOMEONE INSANE INTERPERETS THE HOLY BOOKS WRONG.

    Seriously though you blame religion for the wrong doings that can be attributed to it, thats like me saying 'White people are racist to black people, therefore white people cause all the discrimination and should be gotten rid of, white people are insane. Does that aound daft? Of course it does as your comments do. You can't blame everything on religion simply because it causes problems. Taxes cause problems, family cause problems, the government causes problems and because they do do you wish to abolish them too?

    I will agree with you that the Catholic and Protostant church are greedy with money, power etc, but ALL areas of the world are: Police, government, anything with power and money WILL be exploited by someone. Don't use the evil people of religion to critisie the rest of it, for the same reason you would'nt critisise the entire government or the entire police force, in effect by doing so and scrutinising religion, you are in effect discriminating them as a lot of people do. I live my life happy by having religion-it gives me hope and other things-I don't exploit it like others will. The world is not black and white. There are good and bad in all walks of life understand that and then maybe we can share opinions like like minded adults. Thank you.
    well if you read my post you would see that my point is I DONT BLAME RELIGION FOR EVERYTHING, though i see some blame in certain aspects eg sunni/shite issues for example

    I see religion as having NO use for solving ANY of the issues in the world also, thats a FACT, there isn't anything that religion can solve that atheism cant

    RELIGION is still just a pointless, childish comfort blanket for those who cant make it through life, One other down side to it is that it adds another division/difference between people(along with race, sex, age,political stance, etc etc etc) and is just not necessery in the modern world, it belongs in the past with all the other backwards ideas and theologys
    The world is just down to interperetation at the end of it, we are all different and we all will never be the same. I recognise your point of religion being pointless and respect that as an opinion, and an opinion the same, I'm glad you've granted me that where others may not have. Are you from the UK by any chance? PM if you like.

    YES England to be precise and luckily the UK is more accepting of atheism and probably a higher percentage than you think
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  13. #113 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.
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  14. #114  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasti
    Greed, "want for power" as you so eloquently put it, and sex are amusingly enough all traits of the great religions. Look at how catholic clergy abuse little boys, the way that different religion control their followers through concepts of hell and heaven, sin and righteousness and finally how greedy different churches are, and have been. The priests in medievil times where literally bathing in gold while the farmers where starving.
    Your stuck in 'religion' friend, leave religion aside here and tell me causes behind bad things.

    Heres some bad causes non-religious:

    Nazis murdering Jews, is religion at fault there?
    Racism, is religion at fault there?
    Napolean and his terror, is religion at fault there?
    Terrorism, is religion at fault there? OR IS IT BECAUSE SOMEONE INSANE INTERPERETS THE HOLY BOOKS WRONG.

    Seriously though you blame religion for the wrong doings that can be attributed to it, thats like me saying 'White people are racist to black people, therefore white people cause all the discrimination and should be gotten rid of, white people are insane. Does that aound daft? Of course it does as your comments do. You can't blame everything on religion simply because it causes problems. Taxes cause problems, family cause problems, the government causes problems and because they do do you wish to abolish them too?

    I will agree with you that the Catholic and Protostant church are greedy with money, power etc, but ALL areas of the world are: Police, government, anything with power and money WILL be exploited by someone. Don't use the evil people of religion to critisie the rest of it, for the same reason you would'nt critisise the entire government or the entire police force, in effect by doing so and scrutinising religion, you are in effect discriminating them as a lot of people do. I live my life happy by having religion-it gives me hope and other things-I don't exploit it like others will. The world is not black and white. There are good and bad in all walks of life understand that and then maybe we can share opinions like like minded adults. Thank you.
    well if you read my post you would see that my point is I DONT BLAME RELIGION FOR EVERYTHING, though i see some blame in certain aspects eg sunni/shite issues for example

    I see religion as having NO use for solving ANY of the issues in the world also, thats a FACT, there isn't anything that religion can solve that atheism cant

    RELIGION is still just a pointless, childish comfort blanket for those who cant make it through life, One other down side to it is that it adds another division/difference between people(along with race, sex, age,political stance, etc etc etc) and is just not necessery in the modern world, it belongs in the past with all the other backwards ideas and theologys
    The world is just down to interperetation at the end of it, we are all different and we all will never be the same. I recognise your point of religion being pointless and respect that as an opinion, and an opinion the same, I'm glad you've granted me that where others may not have. Are you from the UK by any chance? PM if you like.

    YES England to be precise and luckily the UK is more accepting of atheism and probably a higher percentage than you think
    You know how I know?

    A: You and I are equally stubborm
    B: You and I are expressing our beliefs the same way
    C: We aren't bothering to shorten our responses.
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  15. #115  
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    What do you think Ophiolite? Oh great and powerful AI.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  16. #116 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.

    No again you use religion, it ISN'T gods will, its mans will. god doesn't exist

    So therefore when i was younger it was also gods will that i had a sex with someones girlfriend out of spite of him?, that i used to regularly sleep around?, my use of recreational drugs? the fights i got into as part of a biker gang etc etc etc

    god is just in the minds of the delusional, not mine im afraid, dont assume that cause ive got a good side, that i haven't got a bad, i have and im not appologettic of it either
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  17. #117 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.

    No again you use religion, it ISN'T gods will, its mans will. god doesn't exist

    So therefore when i was younger it was also gods will that i had a sex with someones girlfriend out of spite of him?, that i used to regularly sleep around?, my use of recreational drugs? the fights i got into as part of a biker gang etc etc etc

    god is just in the minds of the delusional, not mine im afraid, dont assume that cause ive got a good side, that i haven't got a bad, i have and im not appologettic of it either
    You don't have to be apologetic of it. But I believe in God and you don't and no matter how far we complicate the discussion we will always reach that point as we just have.

    PS It is God's will that it happens otherwise it wouldn't. It's God's will your atheist. In my belief there is not just God and thats it-it is a very complicated system of His plan. But again that is another interperetation.

    I will always use religion, it is my binary, my language, my faith, just as your non-religious ways are your binary, your language and your 'faith' by not having faith. If that makes any sense :?.
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  18. #118 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.

    No again you use religion, it ISN'T gods will, its mans will. god doesn't exist

    So therefore when i was younger it was also gods will that i had a sex with someones girlfriend out of spite of him?, that i used to regularly sleep around?, my use of recreational drugs? the fights i got into as part of a biker gang etc etc etc

    god is just in the minds of the delusional, not mine im afraid, dont assume that cause ive got a good side, that i haven't got a bad, i have and im not appologettic of it either
    You don't have to be apologetic of it. But I believe in God and you don't and no matter how far we complicate the discussion we will always reach that point as we just have.

    PS It is God's will that it happens otherwise it wouldn't. It's God's will your atheist. In my belief there is not just God and thats it-it is a very complicated system of His plan. But again that is another interperetation.

    I will always use religion, it is my binary, my language, my faith, just as your non-religious ways are your binary, your language and your 'faith' by not having faith. If that makes any sense :?.

    so your saying that its gods will that i beat someone to within an inch of their lives when i was 17-18? that i had recreational sex with numerous women over long periods of time, that i slept with married women?

    therefore with that logic, it is also gods will that hitler, pol pot, ted bundy, fred west, bin laden etc etc also did what they did?

    therefore meaning anything we do in life is fine with your god, as he made it happen?


    So whats your background with religion then? were you born into it, or a born again type?
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  19. #119 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.

    No again you use religion, it ISN'T gods will, its mans will. god doesn't exist

    So therefore when i was younger it was also gods will that i had a sex with someones girlfriend out of spite of him?, that i used to regularly sleep around?, my use of recreational drugs? the fights i got into as part of a biker gang etc etc etc

    god is just in the minds of the delusional, not mine im afraid, dont assume that cause ive got a good side, that i haven't got a bad, i have and im not appologettic of it either
    You don't have to be apologetic of it. But I believe in God and you don't and no matter how far we complicate the discussion we will always reach that point as we just have.

    PS It is God's will that it happens otherwise it wouldn't. It's God's will your atheist. In my belief there is not just God and thats it-it is a very complicated system of His plan. But again that is another interperetation.

    I will always use religion, it is my binary, my language, my faith, just as your non-religious ways are your binary, your language and your 'faith' by not having faith. If that makes any sense :?.

    so your saying that its gods will that i beat someone to within an inch of their lives when i was 17-18? that i had recreational sex with numerous women over long periods of time, that i slept with married women?

    therefore with that logic, it is also gods will that hitler, pol pot, ted bundy, fred west, bin laden etc etc also did what they did?

    therefore meaning anything we do in life is fine with your god, as he made it happen?


    So whats your background with religion then? were you born into it, or a born again type?
    I don't know, I only started following God and Jesus about a year ago. Oddly enough after my intelligence shot up and after my theory of time travel. CRACKPOT! Thats what you thought? You'd be abnormal if you didn't .

    Its God's will that those things you mentioned happened ortherwise they would have not happened. And before you say 'Why would God let evil things happen?' It's His knowledge to which we'd never understand.
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  20. #120  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    What do you think Ophiolite? Oh great and powerful AI.
    Being of a certain age I no longer need to think, I simply know.

    Religion is as much a part of the human condition as the creativity of the poet and the curiosity of the scientist. The belief that arose in the Enlightenment that religion would fade away in the face of rationality has proven to be every bit as much a faith based misreading of reality as any fundamentalist dogma.
    An examination of human history reveals a primal urge for man to believe in something beyond himself. While some enlightened souls (Ah, the duality of language!) seek this through self achievement, most adopt to a greater or lesser extent, the formal religion of their community. There is no indication that this tendency is reducing on a global basis.

    Another aspect of the human condition is a prediliction for violence and aggression, deceit and selfishness. These arise out of evolutionary compulsions that were suited to small tribes living in a potentially hostile environment. Communication and technology allows these to be played out on a global stage.
    When these are expressed in the international arena we see their exposition rationalised in terms of the irrational beliefs of religion (and sometines, as with eugenics, of pseudoscience). The violence and the aggression, the wars and the misery do not stem from religion. Correlation is not causation. Both stem from the underlying human condition which (depending on your viewpoint) is either God given, or evolved, or both.

    If we wish to overcome these stains on good sense then we need to recognise the root causes. Science can play a lead in this, but not if it adopts a Dawkins like approach that misinterprets a symptom for a cause.
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  21. #121  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    What do you think Ophiolite? Oh great and powerful AI.
    Being of a certain age I no longer need to think, I simply know.

    Religion is as much a part of the human condition as the creativity of the poet and the curiosity of the scientist. The belief that arose in the Enlightenment that religion would fade away in the face of rationality has proven to be every bit as much a faith based misreading of reality as any fundamentalist dogma.
    An examination of human history reveals a primal urge for man to believe in something beyond himself. While some enlightened souls (Ah, the duality of language!) seek this through self achievement, most adopt to a greater or lesser extent, the formal religion of their community. There is no indication that this tendency is reducing on a global basis.

    Another aspect of the human condition is a prediliction for violence and aggression, deceit and selfishness. These arise out of evolutionary compulsions that were suited to small tribes living in a potentially hostile environment. Communication and technology allows these to be played out on a global stage.
    When these are expressed in the international arena we see their exposition rationalised in terms of the irrational beliefs of religion (and sometines, as with eugenics, of pseudoscience). The violence and the aggression, the wars and the misery do not stem from religion. Correlation is not causation. Both stem from the underlying human condition which (depending on your viewpoint) is either God given, or evolved, or both.

    If we wish to overcome these stains on good sense then we need to recognise the root causes. Science can play a lead in this, but not if it adopts a Dawkins like approach that misinterprets a symptom for a cause.
    As always wisdom prevails. Thanks for clearing things up Ophiolite. I tried to get this what you said across. In future I'll reference true meaningful examples and the odd wise words :-D.
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  22. #122 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...i do it for the empathy of my fellow men and creatures, without the fear of a god/hell/heavenly reward etc
    You have just hit me with a 100 pound brick in the face, you are absolutley right. Oh my gosh I don't believe it.

    I do it because it is the right thing to do, most of the time I don't recall the Bible when I do it. I don't do it for reward, I do it because its God's will-as it is God's will that you do your charity work.

    No again you use religion, it ISN'T gods will, its mans will. god doesn't exist

    So therefore when i was younger it was also gods will that i had a sex with someones girlfriend out of spite of him?, that i used to regularly sleep around?, my use of recreational drugs? the fights i got into as part of a biker gang etc etc etc

    god is just in the minds of the delusional, not mine im afraid, dont assume that cause ive got a good side, that i haven't got a bad, i have and im not appologettic of it either
    You don't have to be apologetic of it. But I believe in God and you don't and no matter how far we complicate the discussion we will always reach that point as we just have.

    PS It is God's will that it happens otherwise it wouldn't. It's God's will your atheist. In my belief there is not just God and thats it-it is a very complicated system of His plan. But again that is another interperetation.

    I will always use religion, it is my binary, my language, my faith, just as your non-religious ways are your binary, your language and your 'faith' by not having faith. If that makes any sense :?.

    so your saying that its gods will that i beat someone to within an inch of their lives when i was 17-18? that i had recreational sex with numerous women over long periods of time, that i slept with married women?

    therefore with that logic, it is also gods will that hitler, pol pot, ted bundy, fred west, bin laden etc etc also did what they did?

    therefore meaning anything we do in life is fine with your god, as he made it happen?


    So whats your background with religion then? were you born into it, or a born again type?
    I don't know, I only started following God and Jesus about a year ago. Oddly enough after my intelligence shot up and after my theory of time travel. CRACKPOT! Thats what you thought? You'd be abnormal if you didn't .

    Its God's will that those things you mentioned happened ortherwise they would have not happened. And before you say 'Why would God let evil things happen?' It's His knowledge to which we'd never understand.

    yup, that fits my idea of crackpot


    so with your gods will therefore by not following his/her religion is also his will, therefore RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT AND HAS NO PURPOSE as any actions acted upon were outside of your personal control
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  23. #123 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    so with your gods will therefore by not following his/her religion is also his will, therefore RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT AND HAS NO PURPOSE
    Correction, there is only one God. So the purpose relies with Him .
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  24. #124 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    so with your gods will therefore by not following his/her religion is also his will, therefore RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT AND HAS NO PURPOSE
    Correction, there is only one God. So the purpose relies with Him .
    Only one god from your point of view :wink: so are you saying that if a christian does perform some horrible act, he will still be welcomed into heaven with open arms as the act was outside of his control and the fault/action can only be the fault of your god?

    hmmm interesting :-D
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  25. #125 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    so with your gods will therefore by not following his/her religion is also his will, therefore RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT AND HAS NO PURPOSE
    Correction, there is only one God. So the purpose relies with Him .
    Only one god from your point of view :wink: so are you saying that if a christian does perform some horrible act, he will still be welcomed into heaven with open arms as the act was outside of his control and the fault/action can only be the fault of your god?

    hmmm interesting :-D
    Not fault, reason :-D.
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  26. #126  
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    Again, it is not a good idea to generalize about theism or atheism. Both can have positive effects in terms of your fellow man. If religion is used as a reason to do good, why not let them be? And conversely? I, personally, have experienced both sides of the coin and religion only enters your internal debate as a reason for something (in terms of your fellow man). From a theist’s perspective, he might interpret religion as the cause of his compassion for others, but truly, it is used as a reason to do so. True compassion is a human trait. Not exclusively as a trait of either theism or atheism (atheism used as an opponent to theism). So, to apply this concept to examples of theism gone bad, theism is merely used as an excuse for a certain viewpoint. While I do not agree with the basic premise of theism, it is not theism that is inherently bad. Only the people that use it as an excuse for atrocities. Theism is at best, incorrect.

    PS: Ophiolite, do you know a certain "Daneel" by any chance?
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  27. #127 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    so with your gods will therefore by not following his/her religion is also his will, therefore RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT AND HAS NO PURPOSE
    Correction, there is only one God. So the purpose relies with Him .
    Only one god from your point of view :wink: so are you saying that if a christian does perform some horrible act, he will still be welcomed into heaven with open arms as the act was outside of his control and the fault/action can only be the fault of your god?

    hmmm interesting :-D
    Not fault, reason :-D.
    well either way, it negates religions use
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  28. #128  
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    I suppose in effect it does. But as I say, it gets more complicated so lets compromise and say touchae!
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  29. #129  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Again, it is not a good idea to generalize about theism or atheism. Both can have positive effects in terms of your fellow man. If religion is used as a reason to do good, why not let them be? And conversely? I, personally, have experienced both sides of the coin and religion only enters your internal debate as a reason for something (in terms of your fellow man). From a theist’s perspective, he might interpret religion as the cause of his compassion for others, but truly, it is used as a reason to do so. True compassion is a human trait. Not exclusively as a trait of either theism or atheism (atheism used as an opponent to theism). So, to apply this concept to examples of theism gone bad, theism is merely used as an excuse for a certain viewpoint. While I do not agree with the basic premise of theism, it is not theism that is inherently bad. Only the people that use it as an excuse for atrocities. Theism is at best, incorrect.

    PS: Ophiolite, do you know a certain "Daneel" by any chance?
    exactly my point, goodness is a seperate entity to religion :-D
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  30. #130  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I suppose in effect it does. But as I say, it gets more complicated so lets compromise and say touchae!

    complicate away :wink:
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  31. #131  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I suppose in effect it does. But as I say, it gets more complicated so lets compromise and say touchae!

    complicate away :wink:
    As with the non-post shortening, I can't be bothered I fancy a cup of tea now anyway :wink:.
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  32. #132  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I suppose in effect it does. But as I say, it gets more complicated so lets compromise and say touchae!

    complicate away :wink:
    As with the non-post shortening, I can't be bothered I fancy a cup of tea now anyway :wink:.
    quitter
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  33. #133  
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    Sip, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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  34. #134  
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    They said to Him: "Shall we then, being children, enter the Kingdom?" Jesus said to them: "When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, then you shall enter the kingdom."
    Huh?
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  35. #135  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    They said to Him: "Shall we then, being children, enter the Kingdom?" Jesus said to them: "When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, then you shall enter the kingdom."
    Huh?
    Jesus said that.
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  36. #136  
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    Ok, but what is it supposed to mean?
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  37. #137  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Ok, but what is it supposed to mean?
    Ask Him that .
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  38. #138  
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    If you quoted it, it must mean something to you. If I asked jesus, I would not get an answer 8) So you'll have to
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  39. #139  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If you quoted it, it must mean something to you. If I asked jesus, I would not get an answer 8) So you'll have to
    It means that when you merge youreslf to one being, your outer appearence your inner and vice versa (showing God what you really are), the heavens to the Earth (bring it to), and make seperations that exist to be one. Then being true and pure you may enter the kingdom.

    At least I think thats what it means, I just thought of that now and explained it for you (but of course thats my interperetation, Jesus could have meant something else).
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  40. #140  
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    I just saw it and thougt I'd put it as my quote for my posts along with my new avatar picture, after learning my lesson 2 days ago.
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    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
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  42. #142  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    well the idea of a depraved childhood is something we all can answer with some certainty, plus another point youve mis-interpreted is that atheists dont care about religion, where did you get that idea from?
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  43. #143  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    well the idea of a depraved childhood is something we all can answer with some certainty, plus another point youve mis-interpreted is that atheists dont care about religion, where did you get that idea from?
    I thought that not having faith is the same as not caring about its existence. Just as one may shun science and put that aside from ones belief, a sort of repression I think :?.
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  44. #144  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  45. #145  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    well the idea of a depraved childhood is something we all can answer with some certainty, plus another point youve mis-interpreted is that atheists dont care about religion, where did you get that idea from?
    I thought that not having faith is the same as not caring about its existence. Just as one may shun science and put that aside from ones belief, a sort of repression I think :?.
    I dont believe there is a diety, but i do believe there is religion(obviously), as this is part of the world i live in, it is in my interest to have an interest in it, or at least to take note of the opinions and mind-set of the people in it :-D
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  46. #146  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    I don't mind, I don't care what you say, it is meant to be if you say it.

    All you say here is your opinion and I have already said that atheism derives from childhood deprivation is an IDEA and that it MAY affect SOME, and that I have incorporated ToR's idea of force fed Bible at youth and that is still an idea too. I don;t make an ASSUMPTION, I make an IDEA. I'm not saying that childhood deprivation IS the cause of atheism, just that it MAY be. Just as I would say some find religion becuase of the same reasons. If the final result is the same of what cause to this is important? It's The LORD's will any of these things happen anyway. Where you see a branch of many spaghetti paths, never ending-I see them all joining at one end as they started at one ending 8).
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  47. #147  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    I don't mind, I don't care what you say, it is meant to be if you say it.

    All you say here is your opinion and I have already said that atheism derives from childhood deprivation is an IDEA and that it MAY affect SOME, and that I have incorporated ToR's idea of force fed Bible at youth and that is still an idea too. I don;t make an ASSUMPTION, I make an IDEA. I'm not saying that childhood deprivation IS the cause of atheism, just that it MAY be. Just as I would say some find religion becuase of the same reasons. If the final result is the same of what cause to this is important? It's The LORD's will any of these things happen anyway. Where you see a branch of many spaghetti paths, never ending-I see them all joining at one end as they started at one ending 8).
    therefore surely i can make these statements-

    Theism derives from childhood deprivation

    Theism derives from childhood abuse

    Theism derives from brainwashing by parents

    Theism derives from social pressure

    all those too MAY affect some also

    or

    Atheism derives from common sense

    Atheism derives from lack of proof

    You say that some are force fed the bible in their youths have you ever thought that maybe the atheists are the ones that dispite that happening, they still decide it isn't right, Its also possible that the same percentage of theists are also force fed the bible, and for whatever reason stick with it, that could be to please parents, to fit in, thats all theyve known etc etc

    All those ideas ive just ran off the top of my head are just as possible as your own, just as credible too

    Anyone can make a claim about anything, but without evidence to back it up, it wont fly
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  48. #148  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    I don't mind, I don't care what you say, it is meant to be if you say it.

    All you say here is your opinion and I have already said that atheism derives from childhood deprivation is an IDEA and that it MAY affect SOME, and that I have incorporated ToR's idea of force fed Bible at youth and that is still an idea too. I don;t make an ASSUMPTION, I make an IDEA. I'm not saying that childhood deprivation IS the cause of atheism, just that it MAY be. Just as I would say some find religion becuase of the same reasons. If the final result is the same of what cause to this is important? It's The LORD's will any of these things happen anyway. Where you see a branch of many spaghetti paths, never ending-I see them all joining at one end as they started at one ending 8).
    If you're going to end your arguments with, "it's the lord's will that it be so," then we're all going to give up discussing anything with you. This is a science forum. We're not here to throw up our hands and say, "Well, it might be this, it might be that, but it's all just opinion anyway and the lord will do as he pleases!" We're here to discuss things with logic and evidence. We assume that when you start an argument like, "well, all your parents MIGHT be loveless fiends," that you're going to back that up with something, and not just say "hey, don't get down on me, i'm just voicing my ideas here. They are potentially insulting ideas with nothing to back them up, but they're just ideas! I still want you all to listen to them, though."
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  49. #149 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman

    I dont go out of my way to annoy religious people, infact i kind of pity them and have no reason to hate them for having a strange view on life, but at the same time if i see something that is posted that is way way out of line, ofcourse im going to comment, i mean look at the mentality in certain parts of america(the bible belt), those views are dangerous
    yeh but they are most likely inbred Americans, they'd be nuts whether they were religious or not

    If I lived in a community that reflected some of the things I see on TV, I'd be anti religion too, but I don't. Where I live it is predominantly theist but it's 'quiet' and nothing to object to or about.

    I did have an interesting convo recently with somone who felt celebrating halloween may make us become satanists and so I expressed a polite contrary view on that but other than this...it's uneventful.
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  50. #150  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    I don't mind, I don't care what you say, it is meant to be if you say it.

    All you say here is your opinion and I have already said that atheism derives from childhood deprivation is an IDEA and that it MAY affect SOME, and that I have incorporated ToR's idea of force fed Bible at youth and that is still an idea too. I don;t make an ASSUMPTION, I make an IDEA. I'm not saying that childhood deprivation IS the cause of atheism, just that it MAY be. Just as I would say some find religion becuase of the same reasons. If the final result is the same of what cause to this is important? It's The LORD's will any of these things happen anyway. Where you see a branch of many spaghetti paths, never ending-I see them all joining at one end as they started at one ending 8).
    If you're going to end your arguments with, "it's the lord's will that it be so," then we're all going to give up discussing anything with you. This is a science forum. We're not here to throw up our hands and say, "Well, it might be this, it might be that, but it's all just opinion anyway and the lord will do as he pleases!" We're here to discuss things with logic and evidence. We assume that when you start an argument like, "well, all your parents MIGHT be loveless fiends," that you're going to back that up with something, and not just say "hey, don't get down on me, i'm just voicing my ideas here. They are potentially insulting ideas with nothing to back them up, but they're just ideas! I still want you all to listen to them, though."
    Ok then Paralith if its hard evidence you want, and seeing as you see a science forum as needing to have evidence with an idea then I ask you to give me your evidence for your point of view before I give mine.

    I'm sharing an idea, to discuss if its possible, not claiming it to be true or a fact, just to see if we can discuss if it is or not. So far all I've had from most and you is 'I want evidence. Your wrong. You can't make that assumption'. And sarcasm. If you want me to treat you to an adult discussion then I seriously suggest you take youreslf seriously as an adult and make a discussion based on what you think, not what you think of my ideas being rude or hence forth. Thank you.
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  51. #151 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman

    I dont go out of my way to annoy religious people, infact i kind of pity them and have no reason to hate them for having a strange view on life, but at the same time if i see something that is posted that is way way out of line, ofcourse im going to comment, i mean look at the mentality in certain parts of america(the bible belt), those views are dangerous
    yeh but they are most likely inbred Americans, they'd be nuts whether they were religious or not

    If I lived in a community that reflected some of the things I see on TV, I'd be anti religion too, but I don't. Where I live it is predominantly theist but it's 'quiet' and nothing to object to or about.

    I did have an interesting convo recently with somone who felt celebrating halloween may make us become satanists and so I expressed a polite contrary view on that but other than this...it's uneventful.
    are you american?

    Im a brit living in a large village that happens to be the opposite way round, there is probably 1200 people in this community and about 15-20 goto church(and most of those are 50+), ive always lived in a village and theres a good community spirit, somehow british villages still seem to be slices of a better age of communitys where as the citys are more about knowing you immediate neighbours and no interest beyond that

    we celebrate halloween, easter and christmas, how mad does that sound, but its not about the religious event in most houses, its more of a way of getting familys together and having fun
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  52. #152  
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    We've told you what we think. We disagree with your idea. Multiple atheists have spoken to say that they most certainly did not come from a home without love, and that their decision to become atheist was one they came to on their own, usually as young adults or older, through rational thought. Your original post listed all the atheists you know as being angry, unpeaceful people, and that this is one of the reasons you came up with your IDEA. So atheists came forward to say either that (1) no, we are not all angry and unpeaceful, or (2) for those of us you may characterize as angry, our anger is not unjustified, but it also doesn't necessarily spread to all avenues of our lives. Therefore, if this is the basis for your IDEA, your IDEA does not have a very accurate basis. This does not reflect kindly on your idea. I apologize the negative emotional responses, though I have also explained why the nature of your idea generated such a response.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  53. #153  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I think though that this is a really touchy subject and am really bedazelled by the fact that most atheists jump to defend their belief in God not existing, as opposed to it coming from childhood deprivation (which I have adopted now ToRs theory and incorporated it into this IDEA). I am perplexed by the idea that because one states that atheism MAY come from deprivation (it has to from someone in the world), that every atheist jumps down the throat of the person that asks the IDEA that it may be that. If you really didn't care about religion you wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone God doesn't exist and rip apart ideas of others. It is just something that has been bothering me. Anyone disagree with me if you like.
    Svwillmer, you have to think about what you were saying. You are relating an emotional childhood problem to what most atheists see as their own, logically formed and reasoned decision that they find no reason to believe in god. What you're telling atheists is that no, you did not come to this conclusion on your own, it's because you had bad parents who didn't love you, and it's purely an emotional driver. In one fell swoop you're insulting our parents and telling us that we don't use our brains when it comes to making the decision to not believe in religion. Of course it's likely that some atheists did indeed have bad parents who didn't love them. But it's just as likely that this was the case for some religious people as well. The necessary causation simply isn't there, or at the very least, you simply haven't shown it. And while you may not have meant it, you made some very insulting insinuations in the process. You don't like it when people say that you're only religious because your parents brainwashed you, do you?
    I don't mind, I don't care what you say, it is meant to be if you say it.

    All you say here is your opinion and I have already said that atheism derives from childhood deprivation is an IDEA and that it MAY affect SOME, and that I have incorporated ToR's idea of force fed Bible at youth and that is still an idea too. I don;t make an ASSUMPTION, I make an IDEA. I'm not saying that childhood deprivation IS the cause of atheism, just that it MAY be. Just as I would say some find religion becuase of the same reasons. If the final result is the same of what cause to this is important? It's The LORD's will any of these things happen anyway. Where you see a branch of many spaghetti paths, never ending-I see them all joining at one end as they started at one ending 8).
    If you're going to end your arguments with, "it's the lord's will that it be so," then we're all going to give up discussing anything with you. This is a science forum. We're not here to throw up our hands and say, "Well, it might be this, it might be that, but it's all just opinion anyway and the lord will do as he pleases!" We're here to discuss things with logic and evidence. We assume that when you start an argument like, "well, all your parents MIGHT be loveless fiends," that you're going to back that up with something, and not just say "hey, don't get down on me, i'm just voicing my ideas here. They are potentially insulting ideas with nothing to back them up, but they're just ideas! I still want you all to listen to them, though."
    Ok then Paralith if its hard evidence you want, and seeing as you see a science forum as needing to have evidence with an idea then I ask you to give me your evidence for your point of view before I give mine.

    I'm sharing an idea, to discuss if its possible, not claiming it to be true or a fact, just to see if we can discuss if it is or not. So far all I've had from most and you is 'I want evidence. Your wrong. You can't make that assumption'. And sarcasm. If you want me to treat you to an adult discussion then I seriously suggest you take youreslf seriously as an adult and make a discussion based on what you think, not what you think of my ideas being rude or hence forth. Thank you.

    this is where it always end, the onus is on the believer to prove the existence of a claim, not the non believer to prove it didn't happen

    thats like a policeman taking you off the street and asking you to prove you hadn't got anything to do with a murder which happened while you were asleep
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  54. #154 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    ...we celebrate halloween, easter and christmas, how mad does that sound, but its not about the religious event in most houses, its more of a way of getting familys together and having fun
    Hmm. I have one thing to say why Brits are not as fat as Americans. What event do we not have over here? *COUGH* Thanksgiving.
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  55. #155  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    thats like a policeman taking you off the street and asking you to prove you hadn't got anything to do with a murder which happened while you were asleep
    Ey? It happens oddly enough though .
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  56. #156  
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    Fred

    I am a Brit too and I've lived all over this fine land

    Birmingham
    Worcestershire
    Scarborough
    Bishop steignton (Devon)
    Torquay
    London

    *up, down, middle*


    Friendliest place was NOT any village but that is because I am not one of them. Northerners are by far friendlier and the further North you go the friendlier they get. Must be the air.
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  57. #157  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    We've told you what we think. We disagree with your idea. Multiple atheists have spoken to say that they most certainly did not come from a home without love, and that their decision to become atheist was one they came to on their own, usually as young adults or older, through rational thought. Your original post listed all the atheists you know as being angry, unpeaceful people, and that this is one of the reasons you
    came up with your IDEA. So atheists came forward to say either that (1) no, we are not all angry and unpeaceful, or (2) for those of us you may characterize as angry, our anger is not unjustified, but it also doesn't necessarily spread to all avenues of our lives. Therefore, if this is the basis for your IDEA, your IDEA does not have a very accurate basis. This does not reflect kindly on your idea. I apologize the negative emotional responses, though I have also explained why the nature of your idea generated such a response.
    If you read my posts during the middle of this discussion you'll see that I changed my idea half way through to be a little grey.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (1) no, we are not all angry and unpeaceful
    Thats funny, I've not actually seen anyone say that, just acusations that religion causes a lot of problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (2) for those of us you may characterize as angry, our anger is not unjustified, but it also doesn't necessarily spread to all avenues of our lives
    So my point is unjustified at you? Because I can't come up with evidence?
    So your saying that its ok for you to be angry because it's 'justified'. But I can't have my IDEA because I can't justify it? Just as I can't join a club because I don't fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    ...Therefore, if this is the basis for your IDEA, your IDEA does not have a very accurate basis. This does not reflect kindly on your idea...
    It depends on how your interperet my intial IDEA, thats your assumption on it, caveman and I ended up at a different place to what we are now because of his interperetation (a good one by the way (English English alike )). Thats down to the base of the whole idea again, down to interperetation.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    I apologize the negative emotional responses, though I have also explained why the nature of your idea generated such a response.
    It's ok, its hard to express your true feelings and meanings online. I'm not falling out with you, just discussing something with my sister! :wink:
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  58. #158  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Fred

    I am a Brit too and I've lived all over this fine land

    Birmingham
    Worcestershire
    Scarborough
    Bishop steignton (Devon)
    Torquay
    London

    *up, down, middle*


    Friendliest place was NOT any village but that is because I am not one of them. Northerners are by far friendlier and the further North you go the friendlier they get. Must be the air.
    fred, now your getting cheeky


    Im northamptonshire so kinda in the middle but still a small large town
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  59. #159  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    thats like a policeman taking you off the street and asking you to prove you hadn't got anything to do with a murder which happened while you were asleep
    Ey? It happens oddly enough though .

    no i mean them taking a complete stranger off the street and putting the onus on them to prove it wasn't them
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  60. #160  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (1) no, we are not all angry and unpeaceful
    Thats funny, I've not actually seen anyone say that, just acusations that religion causes a lot of problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    well, sorry to bust your bubble svwillmer, but my boyfriend and I are atheists and I think we're pretty peaceful people. At least, we're happy and friendly much more often than we are angry and aggressive.
    Third post in the thread, svwillmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (2) for those of us you may characterize as angry, our anger is not unjustified, but it also doesn't necessarily spread to all avenues of our lives
    So my point is unjustified at you? Because I can't come up with evidence?
    So your saying that its ok for you to be angry because it's 'justified'. But I can't have my IDEA because I can't justify it? Just as I can't join a club because I don't fit in?
    The anger you were referring to was that of a personality trait - thus the whole "you weren't loved as a child" theme. When you set specific cases of becoming angry in context, such as atheists becoming frustrated and angry because theists treat them unwavering condescension, then you see the anger is not the result of a personality trait but of the situation, in which any reasonable person would probably get a little hot under the collar.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    It depends on how your interperet my intial IDEA, thats your assumption on it, caveman and I ended up at a different place to what we are now because of his interperetation (a good one by the way (English English alike )). Thats down to the base of the whole idea again, down to interperetation.
    i guess i'm not up to date on your current interpretation. if it weren't so late here i'd try to catch up. until then i guess i haven't much else to say at this point.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  61. #161 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Hmm. I have one thing to say why Brits are not as fat as Americans. What event do we not have over here? *COUGH* Thanksgiving.
    The Brits also hold a Thanksgiving ceremony. The date is different. We celebrate ours on July 4th.
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  62. #162 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Hmm. I have one thing to say why Brits are not as fat as Americans. What event do we not have over here? *COUGH* Thanksgiving.
    The Brits also hold a Thanksgiving ceremony. The date is different. We celebrate ours on July 4th.
    WHAT!!! I've never heard of it!
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  63. #163  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (1) no, we are not all angry and unpeaceful
    Thats funny, I've not actually seen anyone say that, just acusations that religion causes a lot of problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    well, sorry to bust your bubble svwillmer, but my boyfriend and I are atheists and I think we're pretty peaceful people. At least, we're happy and friendly much more often than we are angry and aggressive.
    Third post in the thread, svwillmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    (2) for those of us you may characterize as angry, our anger is not unjustified, but it also doesn't necessarily spread to all avenues of our lives
    So my point is unjustified at you? Because I can't come up with evidence?
    So your saying that its ok for you to be angry because it's 'justified'. But I can't have my IDEA because I can't justify it? Just as I can't join a club because I don't fit in?
    The anger you were referring to was that of a personality trait - thus the whole "you weren't loved as a child" theme. When you set specific cases of becoming angry in context, such as atheists becoming frustrated and angry because theists treat them unwavering condescension, then you see the anger is not the result of a personality trait but of the situation, in which any reasonable person would probably get a little hot under the collar.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    It depends on how your interperet my intial IDEA, thats your assumption on it, caveman and I ended up at a different place to what we are now because of his interperetation (a good one by the way (English English alike )). Thats down to the base of the whole idea again, down to interperetation.
    i guess i'm not up to date on your current interpretation. if it weren't so late here i'd try to catch up. until then i guess i haven't much else to say at this point.
    I win again! mwhwhahahahaha! Ok though seriously I see your point, your responses have been based on early discussions at the beginning and so I have replied with the new predications of recent posts.

    When you say third post, you still don't say 'not all are angry or unpeaceful, just that you and your boyfriend are less angry than peaceful, which is paradoxical of the statement 'not all of us are angry' because you refer to yourselves in this context, but actually it does not apply. For instance: You say: 'Not all of us are angry and unpeaceful', then you refer me to 'Me and my boyfriend are more happy and freindly than we are angry'. That is yourselves not others. On the same topic, why do you say "my boyfriend and I"? What has he to do with your opinion? And why do you put him first if he is not in this discussion? Are you only nice more than angry when collective with each other? Just curious.
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  64. #164 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Hmm. I have one thing to say why Brits are not as fat as Americans. What event do we not have over here? *COUGH* Thanksgiving.
    The Brits also hold a Thanksgiving ceremony. The date is different. We celebrate ours on July 4th.
    WHAT!!! I've never heard of it!

    its a joke
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  65. #165 Re: Atheism, derives from childhood privation? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Hmm. I have one thing to say why Brits are not as fat as Americans. What event do we not have over here? *COUGH* Thanksgiving.
    The Brits also hold a Thanksgiving ceremony. The date is different. We celebrate ours on July 4th.
    WHAT!!! I've never heard of it!

    its a joke
    It's when the brits finally got rid of the Yanks 8)
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  66. #166  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    When you say third post, you still don't say 'not all are angry or unpeaceful, just that you and your boyfriend are less angry than peaceful, which is paradoxical of the statement 'not all of us are angry' because you refer to yourselves in this context, but actually it does not apply. For instance: You say: 'Not all of us are angry and unpeaceful', then you refer me to 'Me and my boyfriend are more happy and freindly than we are angry'. That is yourselves not others. On the same topic, why do you say "my boyfriend and I"? What has he to do with your opinion? And why do you put him first if he is not in this discussion? Are you only nice more than angry when collective with each other? Just curious.
    It's grammar, svwillmer. When you refer to yourself and someone else, you say "fred and I," not "I and fred" or "me and fred." That's just the correct way to say it. There's no significance to it. Also, I mentioned him simply as an additional example of a non-angry atheist. Again, no particular significance other than that. Let me also repeat that there is a difference between being angry sometimes when the situation warrants it, and being a generally angry person. Nobody is peaceful 100% of the time, even if they don't express their anger all the time, they feel it. So I felt it was disingenuous to simply say, "We're never angry!" Because that's simply not true.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  67. #167  
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    I know. Your final assumption is now just as basic as mine and cavemans, I mean Cavemans and I's, ey? That don't make sense! Myself and Caveman's assumption. :wink:.
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  68. #168  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I know. Your final assumption is now just as basic as mine and cavemans, I mean Cavemans and I's, ey? That don't make sense! Myself and Caveman's assumption. :wink:.
    how did my assumptions get bundled in with yours?
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  69. #169  
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    That thing about religion being not the same as whatever we were on about. The simplcity of it all.
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  70. #170  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I know. Your final assumption is now just as basic as mine and cavemans, I mean Cavemans and I's, ey? That don't make sense! Myself and Caveman's assumption. :wink:.
    That should be, Caveman's and my assumption. Makes perfect sense.

    I don't think I've made a final assumption yet. I'm still working off of the original version of your idea. Yes, I know it's changed now.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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