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View Poll Results: What is Freedom?

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  • Liberal definition

    3 50.00%
  • Socialist definition

    2 33.33%
  • Islamic definition

    1 16.67%
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: We don't have a monopoly on freedom.

  1. #1 We don't have a monopoly on freedom. 
    Forum Freshman Undecided's Avatar
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    When we think of the word freedom we usually think the ability to do what one wants, without interference from an external source. The ability to express oneself in whichever way he feels fit to do so, the ability to make an income, the ability to love who one wants, etc. This idea of freedom is not universalistic, some would consider this antithetical to freedom. Lets face one fact here the Liberal West is a capitalist system which is one which is inherently unequal, and the government is one which is based on the seperation of Church and State, what do these things mean? Well firstly a capitalist system emphasizes individualism and entrepreneurship, thus the system demands that the individual be responsible for himself, ideally the system allows everyone a chance to make money utilizing their area of comparative advantage, thus in the capitalist conception of freedom one must need the ability to exploit their area of comparative advantage but problematically it is a society which is unequal and creates interests among the classes. In a Liberal order, the emphasis is much more on democracy, a democratic system demands equality among men, in order for every man's opinion to be of equal importance, a liberal order also demands a seperation of power from entrentched powers like aristocrats, and religion which are unproductive to the utilitarian aspect of society as they contribute little to the improvement of mankind. A democratic system with vested interests is no democracy at all, thus in this conception of freeom the gov't must intervene to promote equality among men. A liberal order is a secular order as well so that civil liberities would not be constricted by arbitrary religious conceptions of morality, also to allow all members of the society to identify with the state. Thus within this system you have a grave contradiction, capitalism and liberalism reinforce each other yet contradict each other.

    This contradiction leads us to the next conception of freedom, Marx noted extensively about this contradiction in the system, and noted that the civil liberities and economic liberities in the liberal order are really a facade for the masses to be co-opted into believing that they can go up the socio-economic latter to a higher plain of being through material accumulation. Under the Socialist conception of freedom, freedom is only possible if the means of production are equally shared, and a true democracy then can be created as no one individual is greater then anyother materially. The socialist conception is called Species life, for Marx freedom would only occur once one has accomplished species life, which is producing what you want, and have a personal identification with the product, the capitialist system alternatively alienates people which is denying people their material freedom to do what they want in terms of production. The liberal capitalist system forces people to work for food and shelter like animals, also the gov't system in the liberal order is a means for the bourgeoisie to enforce their will peacefully, while keeping the illusion of "freeom" for all. The socialist argues that states and race, etc are creations by the bourgeoisie to weaken the proletariat into a workforce that can easily be mobilized against the "other" and forget about their economic position (the same criticism is present in Islam).

    The other conception of freedom is Islamic, the Islamic conception of freedom is based on the belief of God, the belief in Tawhid which the idea that God is everywhere and is everything, and without him the universe is out of wack. The criticism that Islamic scholars have of the West is that since we have given up on God in the public sphere we have alienated God and the concept of Tawhid thus we are not living in freedom, as the only freedom is the freedom to be free from the power of man over man, but to be free under the Islamic conception is to be subject to Sharia which is the law of the universe, and thus only God is the soverign over mankind, all nations would cease to exist and the creation of the international Ummah, as stated by Islamic philosopher Qutb:

    Islam came to establish only one relationship which binds men together in the sight of God, and if this relationship is firmly established, then all other relationships based on blood or other considerations become eliminated.
    Thus the conception of freedom is not monopolized by the West, or liberalism.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Junior Cottontop3000's Avatar
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    I thought I was leaning socialist.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Sophomore Elbethil's Avatar
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    I voted for the Marxist one.

    I wonder where the Indian caste system would fit into all this. I guess I'll have to research it and expand my post later.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman Undecided's Avatar
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    Elbethil

    A socialist Albertan! Watch it Ralphie may burn u at the stake....

    I wonder where the Indian caste system would fit into all this. I guess I'll have to research it and expand my post later.

    If you can eludicate on that, it would be great.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Sophomore Elbethil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undecided
    Elbethil

    A socialist Albertan! Watch it Ralphie may burn u at the stake....


    Anyway, from what I looked into the Indian caste system, the general notion held there is "that one is born into a caste depending on one's karmic influences—actions in the past life and current life" (Wikipedia). I couldn't really find any mention of "freedom"; and even if there were, it would appear to be an illusion to me.
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