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Thread: Reason for a multiverse

  1. #1 Reason for a multiverse 
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    This is a silly sort-of-theory I came up with when I was bored. It explains why there would be multiple universes. I think the current scientific idea is that there are an infinite number of universes instead of just one, our own. According to my pseudo theory I think there would be a definite number of universes.

    Anyway, here's the theory.
    Okay, let's say existence is a game of chess. Now originally I thought the future of existence must be uncertain, I mean if the future is known, why exist? In other words, if I already know who is going to win the game of chess, why play?

    But then I thought, okay, lets say that the outcome of existence is known, but somebody, somewhere wanted to know what happened during the time existence err existed. In other words, I know who won the game of chess, but I want to see a replay of the game, so I can see all the moves that were made and how the game began.

    Boom, multiple universes. What if there is some "thing" (NOT GOD!, I am not religious and I am not trying to push "God" on anyone) some super computer, something we can't imagine, just some "thing" out there that was curious as to "how the game began?" This thing may try to guess as to how existence went down. It would have to guess alot of different ways, or in other words, create alot of different universes. So each universe is a different guess.

    Now here's the thing. You know the neverending string of why questions that plagues any topic? For example, if a kid were to ask "why is my dog hungry?" The mom would answer, "because it wants to eat." The kid would ask in return "why does it want to eat?" The mom would reply "to survive." The kid would ask, "why does the dog want to survive?" Ect. Ect. In other words, every time an answer is found, it leads to more questions. Especially in science. why why why why, it seems infinite.

    Now in this pseudo theory, we aren't working from question to answer. We are working from answer to question. The answer is given, the outcome of the game is known. We are instead, trying to work back to the question. Now whereas an answer leads to more questions, a question, well, leads to nothing.

    So I think that at the beginning, was the end and the end was curious about the beginning so it created a near infinte number of guesses. Now the reason I think the number of universes is definite and not infinite is because the "guessing machine" (that's what I'll call it:P) may get it right. What if one of the universes actually retraces the steps of existence perfectly all the way up to the beginning? Then we will have gone from the answer to the question.

    What happens after that original question, I have no idea.

    Just for fun. Let me know what you think.


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  3. #2  
    Jon
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    I think the real reason that some scientists have this idea of ‘Multiverse’ is moreso for the following reason:

    Take any given amount of space, which can hold a finite amount of material (atoms and such) in a finite number of arrangements. Thus there are only a finite ways in which this space can be. Take into account that there is (assumed to be) an infinite amount of space with an infinite amount of matter, and we can see that our ‘space’ (Universe) is just another one of these bounded off areas with finite matter arrangements. There must be infinite such bounded off areas (with an assumed infinite space), and so they must repeat now and again; that they wouldn't seems very unlikely.

    My opinion on this, it's a sham. We have no way of knowing if the space is infinite, and even if it is, there is no reason why we wouldn't include all this extra space into one Universe, some parts of which may be similar/identical.

    Your theory about a super computer is interesting, sci-fi-y, but otherwise not very well backed by any sort of science, reasoning, or logic (no offence).




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    Rv. Jon


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    Hey Jon,
    Thanks for the reply.

    The idea I mentioned wasn't trying to say if there are or are not multiple universes. I was saying that IF there are multiple universes this could be a funny reason why. I know there is no scientific backing for my claim, otherwise I would have posted it in the cosmology forum. This is just a funny philosophical idea where I tried to use some logic.

    I've never heard of what you were talking about as reasoning for multiple universes. What I was going off of was this explination from The Mind of God by Paul Davies which says

    "The most frequently discussed theory of multiple universes concerns an interpretation of quantum mechanics. To see how quantum uncertainty leads to the possibility of more than one world, consider a simple example. Imagine a single electron immersed in a magnetic field. The electron possesses an intrinisic spin which endows it with a "magnetic moment." There will be an energy of interaction of the electron's magnetism with the external magnetic field, and this energy will depend on the angle between the direction of the imposed field and the direction of the electron's own magnetic field...What is found, and what is fundamental to the rules of quantum mechanics, is that only two values of the energy are ever observed...pointing either along the magnetic field or opposed to it...In the example considered there is equal probability for up or down. Then according to a crude version of the many-universes theory, when a measurement is made, the universe splits into two copies, one in which the spin is up, the other in which it is down" (216).

    Now I'd be a liar if I said I completely understand what he's saying, but there is some scientific proof that multiple universes is a possiblity and my post was just a silly (yet sort of logical) reason for why that might be.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatTron
    Hey Jon,
    Thanks for the reply.

    The idea I mentioned wasn't trying to say if there are or are not multiple universes. I was saying that IF there are multiple universes this could be a funny reason why. I know there is no scientific backing for my claim, otherwise I would have posted it in the cosmology forum. This is just a funny philosophical idea where I tried to use some logic.

    I've never heard of what you were talking about as reasoning for multiple universes. What I was going off of was this explination from The Mind of God by Paul Davies which says

    "The most frequently discussed theory of multiple universes concerns an interpretation of quantum mechanics. To see how quantum uncertainty leads to the possibility of more than one world, consider a simple example. Imagine a single electron immersed in a magnetic field. The electron possesses an intrinisic spin which endows it with a "magnetic moment." There will be an energy of interaction of the electron's magnetism with the external magnetic field, and this energy will depend on the angle between the direction of the imposed field and the direction of the electron's own magnetic field...What is found, and what is fundamental to the rules of quantum mechanics, is that only two values of the energy are ever observed...pointing either along the magnetic field or opposed to it...In the example considered there is equal probability for up or down. Then according to a crude version of the many-universes theory, when a measurement is made, the universe splits into two copies, one in which the spin is up, the other in which it is down" (216).

    Now I'd be a liar if I said I completely understand what he's saying, but there is some scientific proof that multiple universes is a possiblity and my post was just a silly (yet sort of logical) reason for why that might be.

    I've heard that theory, and I dislike it, in fact, it makes me want to vomit and cry that anyone calling themselves a scientist would come to write such stuff. We cannot see the split, so we don't know it's happening, and we cannot see the electron in its other position once we see it in the current one... which means: we have NO IDEA that anything special is even taking place! There is no evidence that observing the electron causes a new universe to form, because we can never see the ‘other’ universe that it is supposed to create... which means: this ‘theory’ is non-falsifiable—un-testable—and therefore not scientific.

    Even philosophically, it is so far from anything that will ever effect us that there is simply no reason to even bother discussing it or understanding it—especially since it's all just made up :? . This theory also fails to take into account that QUANTUM phenomena do not exist in the macroscopic world; elephants are just too damn large to suddenly switch positions.

    Anyway, sorry for my rant. I realize that your idea was just a fun little time, but I thought maybe we could talk into this a little more seriously


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    Rv. Jon
    :-)
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    I didn't realize multiple universes was such a sensitive subject for you...

    Have you seen Horizon's (It's a british science documentary program) "Parallel Universes?" You can find it on tv-links.co.uk under documentaries. It discusses string theory and M theory and then ties it all together with the idea of multiple universes. There is also a thread in the cosmology forum on this website called "10 dimensions" and it has a link to a cool little video that I think eventually gets around to multiple universes. The video discusses why we can't see the other universes.

    Scientists say in the "Parallel Universes" program that scientists may one day may actually be able to create big bangs and other universes.

    And nobody really knows what they are talking about when it comes to these kind of issues. Not you, not me, nobody. The guy who tells you "I am sure it was this or that way before the big bang" is a liar. Nobody is sure. So I think there could be mulitple universes or maybe not, nobody knows. None of us really know why we are here either. So yeah, I made a fun little post because if I took this stuff too seriously, I would go nuts.
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    It's okay; I'm not really that strong-felt about the subject, but there is just something about otherwise reasonably-minded science folk going about putting so much faith in something that they cannot observe or test.

    I like what you're written here, and I'm going to do some more research on it, and perhaps set up a post in the cosmology forums.


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    Rv. Jon
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  8. #7  
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    Isn't parallel universes and multiverses to different things? Like, parallel universes can be imagined to be slices of bread all next to eachother in one bread. That all the universes are pretty much in the same "bread" separated only by something called a brane? The multiverse theory (hypothesis?) suggests, if I'm not mistaking, that there are other universes outside our universe. Not as slices of bread, but OTHER universes separated by the fact that they are universes?

    I'm not sure if I explained it correctly, or if I'm correct for that manner. But I do believe there's a difference between multiverse and parallel universe :?

    And... is it more accurate to call the multiverse theory hypothesis or a theory? I'm just curious...
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  9. #8 Re: Reason for a multiverse 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatTron
    This is a silly sort-of-theory I came up with when I was bored. It explains why there would be multiple universes. I think the current scientific idea is that there are an infinite number of universes instead of just one, our own. According to my pseudo theory I think there would be a definite number of universes.

    Anyway, here's the theory.
    Okay, let's say existence is a game of chess. Now originally I thought the future of existence must be uncertain, I mean if the future is known, why exist? In other words, if I already know who is going to win the game of chess, why play?

    But then I thought, okay, lets say that the outcome of existence is known, but somebody, somewhere wanted to know what happened during the time existence err existed. In other words, I know who won the game of chess, but I want to see a replay of the game, so I can see all the moves that were made and how the game began.

    Boom, multiple universes. What if there is some "thing" (NOT GOD!, I am not religious and I am not trying to push "God" on anyone) some super computer, something we can't imagine, just some "thing" out there that was curious as to "how the game began?" This thing may try to guess as to how existence went down. It would have to guess alot of different ways, or in other words, create alot of different universes. So each universe is a different guess.

    Now here's the thing. You know the neverending string of why questions that plagues any topic? For example, if a kid were to ask "why is my dog hungry?" The mom would answer, "because it wants to eat." The kid would ask in return "why does it want to eat?" The mom would reply "to survive." The kid would ask, "why does the dog want to survive?" Ect. Ect. In other words, every time an answer is found, it leads to more questions. Especially in science. why why why why, it seems infinite.

    Now in this pseudo theory, we aren't working from question to answer. We are working from answer to question. The answer is given, the outcome of the game is known. We are instead, trying to work back to the question. Now whereas an answer leads to more questions, a question, well, leads to nothing.

    So I think that at the beginning, was the end and the end was curious about the beginning so it created a near infinte number of guesses. Now the reason I think the number of universes is definite and not infinite is because the "guessing machine" (that's what I'll call it:P) may get it right. What if one of the universes actually retraces the steps of existence perfectly all the way up to the beginning? Then we will have gone from the answer to the question.

    What happens after that original question, I have no idea.

    Just for fun. Let me know what you think.

    I am "moderator protege".

    You said it youself: silly sort-of-theory I came up with when I was bored. It explains why there would be multiple universes. I think the current scientific idea is that there are an infinite number of universes instead of just one, our own. According to my pseudo theory

    .......and yet.........have you put a lottery ticket in recently?
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  10. #9  
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    Ob,
    I was just referring to the idea of multiple universes in any sense, just more than one. I'm not sure about the difference in naming but when I wrote this I was thinking of the theory that uses the term "multiverse" a term Martin Reese came up with. I think the program, Horizons just used the name parallel universes for that episode because it sounded cool even though they were discussing Martin Reese' "multiverse."

    Max,
    Did I do something to offend you? Yes, this is a pseudo theory. I don't have any proof whatsoever for it. I just thought it was a funny, logical idea. Nobody on these forums, even in the cosmology section, seems to have hardcore proof for their theories and I posted this in the philosophy section! But whatever, if you don't like the idea, forget it, I'm not trying to force it on you as truth. I just thought it was a cool idea.
    I'm always confused.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatTron
    Ob,
    I was just referring to the idea of multiple universes in any sense, just more than one. I'm not sure about the difference in naming but when I wrote this I was thinking of the theory that uses the term "multiverse" a term Martin Reese came up with. I think the program, Horizons just used the name parallel universes for that episode because it sounded cool even though they were discussing Martin Reese' "multiverse."
    Oh, sorry then
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