Notices
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: A Human's View of the Universe

  1. #1 A Human's View of the Universe 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    9
    It seems our universe is a mathematical model. It is governed by rational laws that we can discover and comprehend. We interpret this mathematical model as a conglomeration of shapes, colours, movements, forces, etc.

    Over the years, humans have discovered the way we experience our universe is very subjective, but what we observe is a result of natural laws that do not change. Before the twentieth century, scientists mostly believed in "absolute time". What this means is that time goes in one direction, at a constant rate, and is measured the same by all observers. If one was to be able to measure the speed of light, an observer travelling towards the source would find that the speed of light would be faster than an observer travelling in the same direction as the light. Of course, the problem of what the speed of light was relative to had to be discovered. The idea at the time was that there was a substance called the "ether", which comprised all space and would not move.

    However, the idea of absolute time was put to an end by Einstein with his theory of special relativity (I believe it was 1905). Special relativity states that the speed of light is constant no matter which direction you are travelling in or how fast you are going. Each observer would have his own measure of time, which may differ from some other observer. What we experience is all from the point of view of a biological organism that was born at a finite time in the past, and will die at a finite time in the future.

    Basically, what I'm getting at is that the universe is governed by a set of rational laws, but the way we perceive it is subjective and may sometimes lead us to wrong conclusions about the nature of the universe. We can try to be as objective as we can, and have done much to eliminate any subjectiveness, but there will always be a human bias in our perception of the universe.

    What are your thoughts on this?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    927
    what einstein did was amazing. he didn't flinch when his calculations didn't match the existing laws.
    all the way through he had his ideas about how light works, and basically worked the mathematics around it, and then he bent the laws of physics into what he wanted. he never liked the idea of electron movement being random, and impossible to calculate, the model of quantum physics he worked out with the other great minds of the day, i think was probably just a temporary tool so that he could find a final solution.


    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3 Re: A Human's View of the Universe 
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    969
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosmos
    Basically, what I'm getting at is that the universe is governed by a set of rational laws, but the way we perceive it is subjective and may sometimes lead us to wrong conclusions about the nature of the universe. We can try to be as objective as we can, and have done much to eliminate any subjectiveness, but there will always be a human bias in our perception of the universe.
    Precisely.

    Perspective has a significant impact on what we perceive as "logical outcomes" in the universe. What can be accurately modeled in one frame, is complete nonsense in another.

    There is also the barrier of what we are capable of understanding, and what actually exists.
    Wolf
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    "Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you." Alan Alda
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toledo, OH
    Posts
    68
    Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind bogglingly big it is.
    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    We assume the Universe to be governed by rational laws. There is substantial evidence to support this, but it is not, IMO, conclusive. Moreover, it is not clear that these laws are necessarily unchanging. I wholly agree that our appreciation of the Universe is greatly tainted by our perception of it. I offer you one of my favourite quotes:
    "The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine, it is queerer than we can imagine."
    J.B.S.Haldane
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    969
    What we consider our "rational laws" are our -current- way of describing the problem known as the universe. All we can do is hope that we have the right viewpoint, and that if we are proven wrong, that we are intelligent enough to change our viewpoint.
    Wolf
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    "Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you." Alan Alda
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7 Re: A Human's View of the Universe 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    a reality you have all yet to properly explain
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosmos
    It seems our universe is a mathematical model. It is governed by rational laws that we can discover and comprehend. We interpret this mathematical model as a conglomeration of shapes, colours, movements, forces, etc.

    Over the years, humans have discovered the way we experience our universe is very subjective, but what we observe is a result of natural laws that do not change. Before the twentieth century, scientists mostly believed in "absolute time". What this means is that time goes in one direction, at a constant rate, and is measured the same by all observers. If one was to be able to measure the speed of light, an observer travelling towards the source would find that the speed of light would be faster than an observer travelling in the same direction as the light. Of course, the problem of what the speed of light was relative to had to be discovered. The idea at the time was that there was a substance called the "ether", which comprised all space and would not move.

    However, the idea of absolute time was put to an end by Einstein with his theory of special relativity (I believe it was 1905). Special relativity states that the speed of light is constant no matter which direction you are travelling in or how fast you are going. Each observer would have his own measure of time, which may differ from some other observer. What we experience is all from the point of view of a biological organism that was born at a finite time in the past, and will die at a finite time in the future.

    Basically, what I'm getting at is that the universe is governed by a set of rational laws, but the way we perceive it is subjective and may sometimes lead us to wrong conclusions about the nature of the universe. We can try to be as objective as we can, and have done much to eliminate any subjectiveness, but there will always be a human bias in our perception of the universe.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    If I can suggest that we focus on our "human ability" to perceive space-time and it's associated laws...........like maybe we could come across a theory on our ability of perception, of being aware of space-time, on our ability to reason space-time, a theory that is tuned, as our perception is, to the actual presentable workings of space-time. How about a mathematical algorithm of our ability of perception, that then explains the laws of space-time, how not only our perception is structured, but space-time as well?

    What I propose is a little different to how we currently use geometry and maths in the dynamic experimental way that we do...........what I propose basically applies geometry and mathematics to our ability of perception to then establish "logically" how we would perceive and thus, by the application of geometry and mathematics to the mind, how we would understand the laws of space-time.

    Without sounding too repetitive, I have achieved precisely that, with the equations to prove it...........all derived in theory, by applying mathematics and geometry to the mind, to the basic and proveable features of our perception.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,039
    I've heard it said that our universe theoretically came from a place or should I say once existed where the laws of physics and mathematics break down. Is this not our universe, regardless?

    What it is now, or was then or will be in the future matters not. It is still the universe. The egg, the larva and the adult if I use an insect analogy. Whatever form it takes, whether laws change or not, the universe will still be.

    I agree with Cosmos that human bias exists within our perception of the universe but I think it necessary to keep on philosophizing. A discovery needs a concept does it not?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •