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Thread: right?/wrong?

  1. #1 right?/wrong? 
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    how do we as people judge (right?/wrong?) by morals that contradict those of others?


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  3. #2  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    this is rather a broad question - could you be more specific ?


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  4. #3  
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    what is the basis for judgement? can any judge truy be without bias
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  5. #4  
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    We were discussing this on another thread. My opinion so far is that right and wrong are decided on the basis of what behaviors create the best environment for us to live in.

    A nation where stealing was completely unpunished, for instance, would be a horrible place to live.

    Imagine a nation where pedophiles were allowed to just walk around and molest children. Would you want to live there?

    We all have to cooperate in some ways if we want life to be livable, and it is "wrong" not to participate in the cooperation, or at least it's "wrong" to work against it.
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  6. #5 reply 
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    whos morals/judgement desides what's best?
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  7. #6  
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    It's not about who decides what. Some moral systems are inherently better than others. We know this, because many have failed.

    It stands to reason that there must exist a one greatest moral system, by which I mean a system that would be the most successful when applied to the widest variety of situations.

    Now, just because it exists doesn't mean we know what it is, but it does exist, and it's not defined by God or anyone else. It's just a fundamental aspect of reality.
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  8. #7 Re: reply 
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothy182
    whos morals/judgement desides what's best?

    mine
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  9. #8 Re: right?/wrong? 
    Forum Bachelors Degree charles brough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothy182
    how do we as people judge (right?/wrong?) by morals that contradict those of others?
    Morals is "the means to the ends." If you are a Christian, you follow the Christian moral system to achieve Christian ends, that is, to achieve "heaven" and "salvation" thru "the Return of Christ."

    I am an atheist, and I am very critical of the Christian moral system because it is so old and we have outgrown it. We need something better. Still, it is the best we have in common now and the Ten Commandments is really quite good. We who are Free Thinkers still live by "The Christian Ethic" because we were trained in it as children and it shaped our consciences.

    But even though every religion-society has different goals, their moral systems are still very similar. I lived 3 yrs in Muslim Indonesia and 2 yrs in Singapore and I would say people in both places were more moral than people here.

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
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  10. #9  
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    the Ten Commandments is really quite good.
    yes, apart from that, thou shall not covet thy neighbours wife thing. what a copout, telling me who i can or cannot covet
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  11. #10  
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    What about the self, the ego and the ID. Would you want to define yourself by a negative experinece that would/could: cause more problems than it is worth? Then define your character by it, and make it your identity? Aligning what is right against what is wrong, refines our character, and keeps the peace.




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  12. #11  
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    So it is! The purpose of right is to release large amount of energy into space while the other monads laugh "their butts off".
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  13. #12  
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    Right and wrong (at least in my opinion) are man made concepts that don't actually exist. My reasoning behind this is that whether something is right or wrong depends entirely on the perspective of the observer.
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  14. #13 Re: right?/wrong? 
    Forum Sophomore Pikkhaud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothy182
    how do we as people judge (right?/wrong?) by morals that contradict those of others?
    Right and wrong is constantly changing. The majority of the society you live in decides what moral standards you should uphold.

    You can see this in the change of society, In the 60s gays where lynched. In some countries today the there is a Gay parade throgh the capital city once each year.

    And there is a lot of other subjects that can be looked at the same way.
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  15. #14  
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    I agree with this ......








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  16. #15 Re: right?/wrong? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothy182
    how do we as people judge (right?/wrong?) by morals that contradict those of others?
    The concepts (which they are) of "right" and "wrong" are subjective to the perspective of those who hold them. What may be wrong to one, can be right to another.

    The question is, do your views of right and wrong correlate with those around you? Often right and wrong are designed by the society in which they exist.
    Wolf
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    "Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you." Alan Alda
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  17. #16  
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    One cannot be entirely right, unless be as god. And to be entirely wrong, is to be as pure evil, and to sit on the fence, it is claimed those who do that are heaped into hell.

    To choose to be right without being God is to also accept one has faults, a cross one carries.

    To judge right from wrong is to accept one's own infallability compared to the ultimate possibility, while still knowing everyone has their own different mix of good and bad traits.

    If God were to judge this planet though, his judgement would be akin to ensuring not just the basic ongoing survival of a people who refused him, but that of nature, which would never refuse him.
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  18. #17  
    Jon
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothy182
    what is the basis for judgement? can any judge truy be without bias

    I would like to post this snippet from EvC by a member named Omnivorous:

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnivorous at EvC
    I modestly prefer Omni's Three Laws of Human Behavior:

    1. People tend to act in what they see as their own best interest.
    2. People are not very good at determining their own best interest.
    3. Me too.
    The post can be found here:

    http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.c...4&t=1970&m=1#4


    I think it is the best way to explain how people judge right and wrong. Even if the 'best interest' is the warm feeling received when helping others, people always act selfishly. That which is 'right' is always something that serves in what that person sees as their best interests, even if they are not their best interests, and even if those interests do just include a warm feeling from helping someone.




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    Rv. Jon
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  19. #18  
    Forum Sophomore Pikkhaud's Avatar
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    This is very much true. Most of us want to act as to serve others but, no matter what you do it benefits yourself some way or another. Conscious deeds is always selfish deeds.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikkhaud
    This is very much true. Most of us want to act as to serve others but, no matter what you do it benefits yourself some way or another. Conscious deeds is always selfish deeds.
    That's also why there is no right and/or wrong. But in the human world we seem to look at right and wrong as "necessity and unjust." Greed ultimately judge if you're good or bad. Many humans have more then they need, and others don't have anything at all. The quest of the philosophy of right and wrong is to create balance in the human world where everyone live equally good. Even though we all know that such idealism is impossible because of our lust for power...
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  21. #20  
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    This takes me back to another point of view. If man can't do one Conscious deed that is un-selfish then I would say that all of mankind are egoists.
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  22. #21  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikkhaud
    This takes me back to another point of view. If man can't do one Conscious deed that is un-selfish then I would say that all of mankind are egoists.
    Surely the point being made by several posters is that even the consciously unselfish deed (of which I believe we have many examples) is subconsciously selfish.
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  23. #22  
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    Thanks for simplifying, But you can agree that all of mankind ,subconsciously, are egoists.
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