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Thread: God question

  1. #1 God question 
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    I will not get into the discussion of whether Gods' existence can be scientifically proven or not. Let us assume for a moment that there is God. Now,what do you call a person who believes that God exists but does not want Him to influence his life in any way. Before death and after death. I dont want God to judge me. I do not want to have anything to do with HIM. I want to be independent. I want to believe in the Universe and its laws(rules whatever). I am a nihilist and believe that morals do not have any intrinsic value. Morals are only conventions for propagation of justice to humans in best possible manner. I don't want to hurt anyone but in a society where rules are only meant for the other person and where one is considered moral until the secret services blow off the lid is a bit disturbing(not to mention that such organizations may themselves be involved in what one may say amoral deeds).


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    Let us assume for a moment that there is God. Now,what do you call a person who believes that God exists but does not want Him to influence his life in any way.
    Deluded.
    Irrational.
    Incapable of thinking cogently.

    If, as you have stipulated for the purposes of this exercise, god does exist then, regardless of what you want, you cannot escape his influence.

    Before death and after death. I dont want God to judge me.
    This is like saying "I know death exists but I don't want to die".

    I do not want to have anything to do with HIM. I want to be independent. I want to believe in the Universe and its laws(rules whatever). I am a nihilist and believe that morals do not have any intrinsic value. Morals are only conventions for propagation of justice to humans in best possible manner. I don't want to hurt anyone but in a society where rules are only meant for the other person and where one is considered moral until the secret services blow off the lid is a bit disturbing(not to mention that such organizations may themselves be involved in what one may say amoral deeds).
    Yeah, good luck with that.
    Given (per the conditions of this exercise) that god exists then there's f*ck all you can do about it.
    Even if you pretend (or manage to convince yourself) that he/ she/ it doesn't exist that's as "effective" as pretending that gravity has no influence on you.


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  4. #3  
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    I think people can make up whatever God they desire.
    However as to your question about what a person who believes in a non-interfering God is called I am not sure.
    It seems to me it would be one of the versions of Spinoza's God more than the watchmaker God of Newton.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I don't want to hurt anyone but in a society where rules are only meant for the other person and where one is considered moral until the secret services blow off the lid is a bit disturbing(not to mention that such organizations may themselves be involved in what one may say amoral deeds).
    I guess then that God represents the secret service.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; August 24th, 2014 at 09:36 PM.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    Let us assume for a moment that there is God. Now,what do you call a person who believes that God exists but does not want Him to influence his life in any way.
    That would make you a rebel. If this "god" being is truly all powerful, then you would be a failed rebel. Your revolution would be an act of perfect futility.

    So really the question you should ask yourself is not whether you think this god exists, but whether you truly believe he/she/it is all powerful.

    It's also possible that you'll still be happier resisting even if you lose and get tortured in hell for all of eternity, rather than meekly submitting, going to heaven, but feeling like you gave up for all eternity.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr duck
    Before death and after death. I dont want God to judge me.
    This is like saying "I know death exists but I don't want to die".

    I think most people take that position.

    In life, not all of our goals need be realistic. It's ok to have a few unrealistic ones.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  7. #6  
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    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.
    The only one who can truly hold you responsible for your own actions is you. I suggest acting accordingly to do the best for you, but remember - if it adversely affects others, that will also adversely affect you. It is not true that people who do bad things to others are really truly happy, more like they are severely deluded.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.
    And, given that the worst kind of suffering is often internal, how do you know that the rich and crime bosses do not suffer?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.
    I'm trying to figure out the connection between this and your first post on the thread. You started out by assuming that God exists, but you don't want to be held accountable by God. Now you are complaining that rich people and gangsters are not held accountable. Is there some religion that says that God does not hold rich people and members of organized crime responsible?
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  11. #10  
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    ~ A philosophy slanted question of Gods lac of fare play when it comes to dispensing punishments for un humane behaviors..
    ' Forget it ' .. It does not work like that.. Mans law and Gods Law.. might just as well be sods law.. The two are not dependent.
    If you are waiting for your God to punish or show some care for what unfolds in the lives of people.. No.. not ever.. No such case has been shown as anything but wishful thinking..
    ~ A question for you..'Parag'.. Were not the Jewish people not said to have been the chosen race.. Yet I see little fact of protections from God of them.. How do you equate with that ?
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.

    That is because the new age Christian-ish dogma of the modern world teaches that revenge is wrong.

    If people would quit holding to that absurdly stupid ideal, the rich and members of organized crime would also be held accountable for their misdeeds. The individuals whom they targeted would come back and kill them in revenge.

    As it stands, the current thinking is that you must only use violence if there is something immediately to be gained by it. If the hostage is still alive. After they kill the hostage, they can throw down their gun and demand to be treated in a civilized manner. Perhaps serving a long sentence in a (more or less) safe and comfortable prison somewhere. Or perhaps suffering no penalty at all (if they turn states' evidence and give up some of the other gangsters.)

    Really, for a poor person, becoming a gangster is a wholly beneficial proposition. They make a lot of money during their criminal career, destroying countless lives to do it, and then even after they are caught, their children still usually get to keep most of the money.

    If people would be more vengeful, this could be changed. Being a gangster would become a death sentence, or a life of continually watching for someone to come kill and/or torture you to death for the crimes you have committed against others.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.

    That is because the new age Christian-ish dogma of the modern world teaches that revenge is wrong.

    If people would quit holding to that absurdly stupid ideal, the rich and members of organized crime would also be held accountable for their misdeeds. The individuals whom they targeted would come back and kill them in revenge.

    As it stands, the current thinking is that you must only use violence if there is something immediately to be gained by it. If the hostage is still alive. After they kill the hostage, they can throw down their gun and demand to be treated in a civilized manner. Perhaps serving a long sentence in a (more or less) safe and comfortable prison somewhere. Or perhaps not (if they turn states' evidence and give up some of the other gangsters.)

    Really, for a poor person, becoming a gangster is a wholly beneficial proposition. They make a lot of money during their criminal career, destroying countless lives to do it, and then even after they are caught, their children still usually get to keep most of the money.

    So become one if you think that it is cool to you. If you would rather be a nice and decent person you could do that too. Up to you. Karma will be there for you. I personally like being a nice person having an interesting job with nice people I enjoy working with to make money, but well it you want to be a gangster and stuff, heck that ain't my decision, it is yours. Enjoy.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.

    That is because the new age Christian-ish dogma of the modern world teaches that revenge is wrong.

    If people would quit holding to that absurdly stupid ideal, the rich and members of organized crime would also be held accountable for their misdeeds. The individuals whom they targeted would come back and kill them in revenge.

    As it stands, the current thinking is that you must only use violence if there is something immediately to be gained by it. If the hostage is still alive. After they kill the hostage, they can throw down their gun and demand to be treated in a civilized manner. Perhaps serving a long sentence in a (more or less) safe and comfortable prison somewhere. Or perhaps not (if they turn states' evidence and give up some of the other gangsters.)

    Really, for a poor person, becoming a gangster is a wholly beneficial proposition. They make a lot of money during their criminal career, destroying countless lives to do it, and then even after they are caught, their children still usually get to keep most of the money.

    So become one if you think that it is cool to you. If you would rather be a nice and decent person you could do that too. Up to you. Karma will be there for you. I personally like being a nice person having an interesting job with nice people I enjoy working with to make money, but well it you want to be a gangster and stuff, heck that ain't my decision, it is yours. Enjoy.
    Actually most criminals are not getting rich.
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  15. #14  
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    Certainly not your local dope peddlars.
    http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alysis2000.pdf
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  16. #15  
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    The error you are making is to define the universe yourself (theologically), instead of trying to investigate the way the universe actually is.

    From your premise: "God exists", it is reasonable to assume that if God exists, and God is love, then choosing to reject God right up to the end of life may cause a person to end up in a place where there is no love.

    That is a very bad choice.

    It would be more logical to investigate and get to know God, to understand what He is really like before making such a profound choice.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I am raising this issue about God is because I find it is only the common man who suffers for his sins(read mistakes whichever and wherever applicable). The rich and those who are into organised crime hardly suffer. Therefore I have defined common man as such:One who is held responsible for his every action or in some circumstances even actions of others is a common man.

    That is because the new age Christian-ish dogma of the modern world teaches that revenge is wrong.

    If people would quit holding to that absurdly stupid ideal, the rich and members of organized crime would also be held accountable for their misdeeds. The individuals whom they targeted would come back and kill them in revenge.

    As it stands, the current thinking is that you must only use violence if there is something immediately to be gained by it. If the hostage is still alive. After they kill the hostage, they can throw down their gun and demand to be treated in a civilized manner. Perhaps serving a long sentence in a (more or less) safe and comfortable prison somewhere. Or perhaps not (if they turn states' evidence and give up some of the other gangsters.)

    Really, for a poor person, becoming a gangster is a wholly beneficial proposition. They make a lot of money during their criminal career, destroying countless lives to do it, and then even after they are caught, their children still usually get to keep most of the money.

    So become one if you think that it is cool to you. If you would rather be a nice and decent person you could do that too. Up to you. Karma will be there for you. I personally like being a nice person having an interesting job with nice people I enjoy working with to make money, but well it you want to be a gangster and stuff, heck that ain't my decision, it is yours. Enjoy.
    Actually most criminals are not getting rich.
    That makes it even worse, not better. They're truly ruining other peoples' lives for nothing then.

    It bothers me that the law prohibits the use of any kind of aggressive self defense. Some gangster with 24 henchmen threatens you, and all you're allowed to do is buy a gun and stay up all night guarding your house. You can't just go to his den, and kill him to ensure he doesn't carry out the threat.

    So basically this guy can extort anything he wants from anyone, so long as he doesn't actually get caught in the act of carrying out his threats. Even if one of his henchmen gets caught, that henchman is all the law has. The other 23 are still free to try again.

    Obviously the police can't offer protection from that in any meaningful measure. They can't even realistically take revenge for you after the crime, except on the very small chance the henchman they catch decides to flip (which is in turn dependent on the small chance they even catch a henchman.) The best hope you have to survive is if you witness something impressive enough to get into witness protection, and even then we're talking about uprooting your whole life and living on the run.

    All to spare a single life, while that life continues ruining many others?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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