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Thread: Free Will vs Scientific Method vs My definition of the Scientific Method

  1. #1 Free Will vs Scientific Method vs My definition of the Scientific Method 
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    This is the current definition of science.


    The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

    Here is my definition of science I F L C H R S it , but it might still be wrong though.


    Science is a way of explaining cause and effect.


    F L C H R S


    False :

    I do not think so.

    Logic :

    practical
    activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior
    This would be explaining.

    observation
    This would be to recreate cause and then observe the effect.

    The entire statement would be to obtain a cause.

    Comprehensiveness :

    Yes I think so.

    Honesty :

    I feel like I am being honest.

    Replicate :

    Yes I think you can replicate my definition.

    Sufficient:

    I think the definition is sufficient.




    Here is the definition of free will.


    The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.


    The problems :


    Free Will can not be constrained by a prior cause and therefore is scientifically impossible.



    The solution :


    My definition is wrong.


    I did F L C H R S wrong.


    I did something else wrong.


    I am not human and do not have free will. Is the explanation of why I can not understand this. This is hopefully a joke.


    Science can not explain free will because it is not explainable by science. This is circular logic though. I think.



    My MISC. Questions and Comments:



    Can science not explain science because science is derived from Free Will?


    So what makes somethings have cause and some other things not to have cause?


    Does this mean Free Will has a cause that is not natural or physical?


    Sorry about getting mad in the other post, I thought science was explaining cause and effect.


    I guess I know nothing about science, but like in the movie Thor now maybe I can ask the right questions.


    Why is science not explaining cause and effect?


    Last edited by deepblah123; August 19th, 2014 at 05:45 PM.
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  3. #2  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    I'll chip in just this once.
    Something you have neglected to consider in your list of "solutions" is "We really do not have free will".
    You appear to be assuming a priori that we incontrovertibly do, and that any argument showing we don't is automatically wrong.

    Edit: I have no idea where you got "F L C H R S", regardless you're applying it incorrectly: not one step is genuinely a response to the parameter given.


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  4. #3  
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    So then my other forum post was correct?


    I thought the free will problem was the only reason it did not make sense to anyone.
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  5. #4  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepblah123 View Post
    So then my other forum post was correct?
    Which one?

    I thought the free will problem was the only reason it did not make sense to anyone.
    It probably didn't make sense because the vast majority of your posts don't make sense.
    You misuse and misapply the tools of science and rational thinking and consistently fail to realise - even, or especially, when it is pointed out to you - that you are doing so.
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  6. #5  
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    The one named Determinism, Morals, and God.


    Also is this right?


    Science can not explain science because science is derived from free will.


    I have no idea where you got "F L C H R S", regardless you're applying it incorrectly: not one step is genuinely a response to the parameter given



    I got it from pavlos.


    The link is to this forum. and it stands for. and I quote "The six rules of evidential reasoning are Falsifiability, Logic, Comprehensiveness, Honesty, Replicability, and Sufficiency. Thus FiLCHeRS. Apply these six rules to the evidence offered for any claim, and no one will ever be able to sneak up on you and steal your belief. You'll be filch-proof."



    Also I am now in the philosophy section, so you can not be mean to me about science.
    Last edited by deepblah123; August 19th, 2014 at 05:47 PM.
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  7. #6  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepblah123 View Post
    The one named Determinism, Morals, and God.
    Your prevalent, and numerous errors, were pointed in that thread.

    Science can not explain science because science is derived from free will.
    1) The fact that science CURRENTLY can't explain 1 doesn't mean that it is inherently capable of so doing.
    2) You are STILL assuming a priori that free will exists.

    I got it from pavlos.
    The link is to this forum. and it stands for. and I quote "The six rules of evidential reasoning are Falsifiability, Logic, Comprehensiveness, Honesty, Replicability, and Sufficiency. Thus FiLCHeRS. Apply these six rules to the evidence offered for any claim, and no one will ever be able to sneak up on you and steal your belief. You'll be filch-proof."
    Yeah I realised later.
    I wonder why you didn't bother using FILCH: it would have been more easily recognisable.
    Regardless, the way you applied each step makes an utter nonsense of any claim to be using the process. You apparently haven't understood it (and, very possibly, haven't read the linked-to page where it was thoroughly explained).

    1 In fact - at the moment - science can't say definitively whether we have free will or not. It's existence has to be established before we "explain" it.
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  8. #7  
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    1) The fact that science CURRENTLY can't explain 1 doesn't mean that it is inherently capable of so doing.
    2) You are STILL assuming a priori that free will exists.

    Yes this is good that you understand this.



    It was about why God is beyond the scope of science, whether we have free will or not and that is why there is faith.



    Which I learned today is common knowledge.



    Because then this also means that atheism is not scientifically possible and will never be.



    So you have chosen to not believe rather than believe.



    So you will be waiting for God to be proved wrong till the day you die, wow.



    The Bible says trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not in your own understanding.
    Last edited by deepblah123; August 19th, 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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  9. #8  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    This isn't a site for religious garbage.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  10. #9  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepblah123 View Post
    Yes this is good that you understand this.
    This is an admission that you aren't doing science and aren't genuinely using logic.
    All you're doing is attempting to justify your pre-existing belief.

    It was about why God is beyond the scope of science
    As soon as you mention "god" the subject stops being scientific.

    , whether or not we have free will

    You've already admitted that that you're working from the assumption that free will exists, and, given that when your first attempt at "logic" showed there isn't you immediately decided that it was an error I doubt you'll come up with any answer except "Yes it does".
    By misapplying whatever you can get hands to support your fixed pre-formed conclusion.
    Hardly rational...

    and that is why there is faith.
    And this is inane drivel.


    Because then this also means that atheism is not scientifically possible.
    If you truly think this is anywhere near true then you're more delusional than I had supposed.
    I am an atheist.
    I know many other atheists.
    Therefore atheism exists.

    We will never be able to completely understand something that is infinite because we are finite.
    Irrelevant.

    For instance ten can not completely go into one.
    Meaningless with regard to the topic.

    So you have chosen to not believe rather than believe.
    Wrong again.
    I didn't "choose".

    Which I learned today is common knowledge.
    Then you haven't learned anything, since it is NOT common knowledge (presuming you're referring to : chosen to not believe).

    So you will be waiting for God to be proved wrong till the day you die, wow.
    Since there is no evidence that "god" exists I have zero requirement for "him" to be proved wrong.
    You really have no idea what "atheist" means, do you? (Along with all the other things you have no idea about).

    The Bible says trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not in your own understanding.
    Then you have a head start, because every time you've displayed YOUR understanding you've shown it to deficient AND defective.
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  11. #10  
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    The definition of atheism.

    disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
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  12. #11  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    This thread is not Philosophy.
    Regardless of the OP's (obvious) agenda his posts are neither framed according to practices of philosophy nor argued in any manner accepted in philosophy.

    Could a mod shift it to... if not the far side of the Moon then Trash, please.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  13. #12  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepblah123 View Post
    The definition of atheism.
    disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
    So why do think I'd be "waiting for God to be proved wrong" at all?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  14. #13  
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    People can not understand everything, especially something that is infinite because our minds are finite.

    God can never be scientifically proved.


    You and a bunch of other people told me why God is not real the entire time I have been on these forums.



    All you're doing is attempting to justify your pre-existing belief.


    Is seems to me that you all were doing this and it was driven by fear and it created only hate.



    This only strengthens my faith because it is what the Bible says.



    My faith gives me love and compassion and the peace that passes understanding.



    This only strengthens my faith because this is what the Bible says.
    Last edited by deepblah123; August 19th, 2014 at 07:33 PM.
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  15. #14  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    And, therefore, "god" is not a subject for scientific discussion.
    Keep "god" entirely out of it.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  16. #15  
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    Science does not allow you to understand anything only explain it.



    I have just recently come to better understand this by talking to everyone on the forums.



    God can not be known by humans, but only believed.



    I believe the Bible is real because it teaches me God has loved me first and this teaches me how to love.



    Now it all makes sense.



    I believe to truly love someone, you would have to truly know that you were truly loved first.



    God's love conquerors everything.



    You can not really understand anything with science only explain it.



    The more knowledge you have the more faith you must also have.



    That is why it is talks about the fruit of knowledge in the Bible.



    God knows everything and therefore God is not evil and knows how to love and is all that is good.



    Love is peace.


    Peace is good.


    The unknown is fear.


    Fear is suffering.


    Suffering is evil.


    If you do not believe in God you believe that humans are evil. | because | If humans are evil you believe that humans should want to suffer.




    Does that not strike you as somewhat sadistic?


    Why do you not want to suffer?



    While I still have fear.



    God has given me the peace to understand this even when you and a bunch a people were mean to me and I want you to understand this


    because I do not want you to suffer.


    I did not come here and think that I was going to make people come to God.


    I came here to try to make myself feel better by trying the best I could to do what is right.


    I can tell you from my understanding of what I have experienced that you and other mean people seriously made me think about killing myself

    again.


    I do not like watching people when they are in pain and are suffering.


    Knowledge and understanding are not the same thing.


    I have only gotten around twelve hours of sleep since I have joined this forum trying to explain everything to you what I have can understand

    and also I learned more than I had already known.


    Hopefully I will be able to stop coming back here and find something I can enjoy doing.
    Last edited by deepblah123; August 20th, 2014 at 05:31 AM.
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  17. #16  
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    ~ Just keep right on talking... The hole is getting deeper by the minute..

    'Knowledge and understanding are not the same thing.' Is a correct statement.
    Only after the acquisition of knowledge can a understanding evolve.. I resent being told what I might think..
    That I have action's of free will and reject the very concept GOD.
    ~ By conclusions of scientific revue have I made these determinations of choice.. based on knowledge not belief.
    With a absolute denial of faith. The scientific principal must be upheld.

    ~ I see a mention of self harm and of ending one's life.. That would be the worst option available.. seek advice and knowledge. For with knowledge comes wisdom and a want to live a healthy long and joyful life.. If you find a negative aspect then seek assistance.
    Thoughts of self harm are the most heinous of options.. remove them from your thoughts and pursue a option of happiness and learning..
    The quest for betterment is a goal worthy of sharing.. ' If you do not enjoy these discussions, then stop coming here..'
    This is a forum of science and learning.. If you want for religious fundamentalism, then seek a religious forum.. but please do seek help.
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  18. #17  
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    There is no philosophy in this thread, or any other content that elevates it above the 'garbage' status;
    it should therefore be relocated to the Trash Can.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  19. #18  
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    Your thoughts.
    With a absolute denial of faith. The scientific principal must be upheld

    The definition of faith.
    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

    Your thoughts.
    That I have action's of free will and reject the very concept GOD.

    What I have said.
    The Bible says trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not in your own understanding.


    Your thoughts.
    The quest for betterment is a goal worthy of sharing.. ' If you do not enjoy these discussions, then stop coming here


    My thoughts.
    I do not like watching people when they are in pain and are suffering.


    Conclusion.

    What you said.
    'Knowledge and understanding are not the same thing.' Is a correct statement.

    What I said.
    Yes this is good that you understand this.




    It was about why God is beyond the scope of science, whether we have free will or not and that is why there is faith.



    Which I learned today is common knowledge.

    What I said.
    You can not really understand anything with science only explain it.

    What Jesus said. Luke Chapter 17 20 - 21

    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
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  20. #19  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
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    This thread belongs in trash.
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  21. #20  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Agreed.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  22. #21  
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    It's just preaching. Which is not only grounds for trashing, but I believe against the forum rules and could lead to a vacation.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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