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Thread: Mind emerges and is not responsible for creation

  1. #1 Mind emerges and is not responsible for creation 
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    Subject - Object relationships are considered now.


    Are we holistic, or independent of the universe? Naturally, the whole universe consists of a self-contained system, in which subsystems interact.

    Let's see if I can mathematically-represent this. If the universe consists of a holistic interpretation, then the universe exists as a unique system which has subsystems [1].


    Let us denote consciousness (and everything related to) as a set . Let the universe then be the set . Thus if is a subset of then I can write



    It is taken for fact that exists as a subset of that it cannot be an exact copy. No subsystem can model precisely the larger system it is made of (turns out this is conjecture). This is conjectured because I believe that can never contain all the information contained in . Though a conjecture, is still pure logic.

    A final conjecture would be, that the mind exists but the universe doesn't depend on the mind whilst the mind does depend on the universe. This should clear up, once and for all the dichotomy of whether the universe is mind-dependant or not. Taking into consideration that the mind seems to be a late low-energy phenom as well, the mind emerges from the universe not the other way around.

    This should put to rest, subjective theories which place subjective experience on equal footing with consciousness.

    [1]def. Noun, 1. subsystem - a system that is part of some larger system. system, scheme - a group of independent but interrelated elements comprising a unified whole;


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  3. #2  
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    This isn't physics.

    Personal theories is a better home for it.


    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    This isn't physics.

    Personal theories is a better home for it.

    Nicer to see it in philosophy. Makes a change.
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  5. #4  
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    Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You are most definately not alone. Check out this recent paper from Max Tegmark of MIT:

    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.1219v1.pdf

    "Consciousness as a State of Matter" Its called. It works off the idea that consciousness is how "information feels when its being processed in certain ways". So yes, conscious systems are a subset of what's out there in the universe, as you say. But the bridge to the quantum opens some new doors of insight, I wouldn't describe this work as a materialist dismissal of consciousness, its far more vital and powerful.

    In fact I think its really great science. I heard this quote earlier today from economist John Maynard Keynes: "Newton was not the first of the age of reason, he was the last of the magicians." I love that. It paints scientists as individuals trying to boldly penetrate the mysteries of existence, both personal and physical, not a group of timid existential skeptics afraid to take on any idea that might be wrong. Consciousness is a hard question, but great scientists have always taken on hard questions. Keep on with your inquiries!
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TridentBlue View Post
    Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You are most definately not alone. Check out this recent paper from Max Tegmark of MIT:

    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.1219v1.pdf

    "Consciousness as a State of Matter" Its called. It works off the idea that consciousness is how "information feels when its being processed in certain ways". So yes, conscious systems are a subset of what's out there in the universe, as you say. But the bridge to the quantum opens some new doors of insight, I wouldn't describe this work as a materialist dismissal of consciousness, its far more vital and powerful.

    In fact I think its really great science. I heard this quote earlier today from economist John Maynard Keynes: "Newton was not the first of the age of reason, he was the last of the magicians." I love that. It paints scientists as individuals trying to boldly penetrate the mysteries of existence, both personal and physical, not a group of timid existential skeptics afraid to take on any idea that might be wrong. Consciousness is a hard question, but great scientists have always taken on hard questions. Keep on with your inquiries!

    Thanks for the paper!
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  7. #6  
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    Nice quote too!
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    That's me read the paper now. I didn't realize how much it was going to correspond with the conclusions I made.

    He specifically says that subsets are features of low energy states.

    That's exactly what I concluded as well.
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    I hope its useful. I've hacking my way through it, but its pretty abstract. You might want to check out some of the many articles on it too, they make the content more appoachable. This one looks good:
    https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/5e7ed624986d
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    It will be useful, thanks.
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