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Thread: Mortal or Immortality

  1. #1 Mortal or Immortality 
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    Please just give me your thougts and ideas Wheather you would want to be immortal or not, i don't want to hear if it's impossible or possible.

    It's appealing to be immortal, i mean never dying, never finding the last question, the only question that will only be answered upon our death, whats after?

    Would you give it up?
    And being immortal time would seem useless, the beauty of living would be meaningless, as mortals for us any moment could be our last and we see beauty in it but would not exist.
    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    there is only 1 catch, you will never ever and i mean quite litterly ever die even when the universe implodes, you will exist for all eternety oh and you cannot forget anything at all, even after Quadrillions of years floating in nonthingness.


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  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    An unlimited supply of life would (in my opinion) imply that it cannot be appreciated.
    Beyond all achievements and beauty and knowledge, immortality would (in my opinion) result into a pointless existence.

    This video of Ted-Ed might be interesting:
    If superpowers were real: Immortality - Joy Lin


    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; March 19th, 2014 at 06:26 AM. Reason: YouTube video added.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  4. #3  
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    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    Well that's not gunna happen. Individuals don't evolve, groups or whole species do.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Mortal. I already hate seeing friends and loved ones die so I do not relish the thought of seeing more of them die as time passes by.
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; March 27th, 2014 at 05:04 PM.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    Well that's not gunna happen. Individuals don't evolve, groups or whole species do.
    asked if you would take immortal or not.
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  7. #6  
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    This isn't really a scientific answer, more of a personal or philosophical opinion. But when I look at pictures in my family photo album of my grandmother as an infant, a young girl of 17, an old lady of 86, I'm always perplexed by the question - is that really "the same" person? Am I the same person I was 10, 20, 50 years ago? Is there truly some "core me" that hasn't changed since I was born, even though I look different, have different thoughts, attitudes, interests, abilities and have probably forgotten a large percentage of what I experienced?

    So, although the idea of dying tomorrow or even in a few years is still frightening, I also think that if I could live to be 500 or 3000 years old, the person I ended up becoming would be so different from the identity I started out with, that it ultimately wouldn't matter. I don't think "you" could live forever, even if you never died.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    This isn't really a scientific answer, more of a personal or philosophical opinion. But when I look at pictures in my family photo album of my grandmother as an infant, a young girl of 17, an old lady of 86, I'm always perplexed by the question - is that really "the same" person? Am I the same person I was 10, 20, 50 years ago? Is there truly some "core me" that hasn't changed since I was born, even though I look different, have different thoughts, attitudes, interests, abilities and have probably forgotten a large percentage of what I experienced?

    So, although the idea of dying tomorrow or even in a few years is still frightening, I also think that if I could live to be 500 or 3000 years old, the person I ended up becoming would be so different from the identity I started out with, that it ultimately wouldn't matter. I don't think "you" could live forever, even if you never died.
    that is rather interesting point of view, in fifth grade we made a letter to ourselfes, where the teachers gave us it back in ninth grade, when i read mine i was shocked how much i had changed, i wrote my ideal's, what i think of the world, myself and how i wanted to turn out.
    Make a letter to yourself and open it in 5 years or even 10 years and read it. then make a new one when you've read it and say what have changed and write the topic's above.
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  9. #8  
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    Immortal for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    Immortal for me.

    Why did you choose that?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Please just give me your thougts and ideas Wheather you would want to be immortal or not, i don't want to hear if it's impossible or possible.

    It's appealing to be immortal, i mean never dying, never finding the last question, the only question that will only be answered upon our death, whats after?

    Would you give it up?
    And being immortal time would seem useless, the beauty of living would be meaningless, as mortals for us any moment could be our last and we see beauty in it but would not exist.
    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    there is only 1 catch, you will never ever and i mean quite litterly ever die even when the universe implodes, you will exist for all eternety oh and you cannot forget anything at all, even after Quadrillions of years floating in nonthingness.
    What would be the point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Please just give me your thougts and ideas Wheather you would want to be immortal or not, i don't want to hear if it's impossible or possible.

    It's appealing to be immortal, i mean never dying, never finding the last question, the only question that will only be answered upon our death, whats after?

    Would you give it up?
    And being immortal time would seem useless, the beauty of living would be meaningless, as mortals for us any moment could be our last and we see beauty in it but would not exist.
    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    there is only 1 catch, you will never ever and i mean quite litterly ever die even when the universe implodes, you will exist for all eternety oh and you cannot forget anything at all, even after Quadrillions of years floating in nonthingness.
    What would be the point?
    each individual have a diffrent view if they ever gotten the question just want to know what people would do
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  13. #12  
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    I'd reject immortality. I'd see it as taking more than my fair share of the resources we have available. I should make way for other people to have the same opportunities I've had.
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  14. #13  
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    I'm still wondering what the topic, as presented, has to do with philosophy...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  15. #14  
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    If immortality means still being there when your environment isn't liveable anymore, I don't think I'd bear the grief. And what about not being able to have any stable relationships because you know they'll all die and probably be forgotten after a century or so?
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  16. #15  
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    why? I would experience art, learn, see discoveries, live in the future, hopefully participate in space exploration, and enjoy virtual worlds, create new ones. imagination helps.

    also consider all the art, from mozart to renoir, greek mythology, epic tales from odysseus to king arthur, movies, star wars, history, science, apollo moon landing, video games, telescopes, microbiology, flying on a plane, a hanglider, scuba diving, etc etc
    now imagine how a caveman would imagine it would be boring to live in the future because he is projecting his limited experiences as what living in the future would be, he would not have imagined all the stuff mentioned above, similarily there might be epic tales and facinating experiences we could hardly imagine in our own world now.

    As for ephemerial relationships i would cherish them like shooting stars. And episodes from your favorite tv series end, it doesnt prevent you from enjoying them.

    bored? no problem, i would use the sleep technique/implant available in 3128 to sleep for 68 thousand quadliion years, wake up, then crack up at Ricky Spacey formidable joke about 2 Trolondarites and a meta boron in a bar, then remember a number of interesting stuff i never knew about in 2641, then go back to sleep for eons
    Last edited by icewendigo; March 20th, 2014 at 06:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Please just give me your thougts and ideas Wheather you would want to be immortal or not, i don't want to hear if it's impossible or possible.

    It's appealing to be immortal, i mean never dying, never finding the last question, the only question that will only be answered upon our death, whats after?

    Would you give it up?
    And being immortal time would seem useless, the beauty of living would be meaningless, as mortals for us any moment could be our last and we see beauty in it but would not exist.
    if you take immortality you will evolve with the rest of humans.
    there is only 1 catch, you will never ever and i mean quite litterly ever die even when the universe implodes, you will exist for all eternety oh and you cannot forget anything at all, even after Quadrillions of years floating in nonthingness.
    What would be the point?
    each individual have a diffrent view if they ever gotten the question just want to know what people would do
    I would chose as is. You see I already think I am immortal through my children.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    why? I would experience art, learn, see discoveries, live in the future, hopefully participate in space exploration, and enjoy virtual worlds, create new ones. imagination helps.

    also consider all the art, from mozart to renoir, greek mythology, epic tales from odysseus to king arthur, movies, star wars, history, science, apollo moon landing, video games, telescopes, microbiology, flying on a plane, a hanglider, scuba diving, etc etc
    now imagine how a caveman would imagine it would be boring to live in the future because he is projecting his limited experiences as what living in the future would be, he would not have imagined all the stuff mentioned above, similarily there might be epic tales and facinating experiences we could hardly imagine in our own world now.

    As for ephemerial relationships i would cherish them like shooting stars. And episodes from your favorite tv series end, it doesnt prevent you from enjoying them.

    bored? no problem, i would use the sleep technique/implant available in 3128 to sleep for 68 thousand quadliion years, wake up, then crack up at Ricky Spacey formidable joke about 2 Trolondarites and a meta boron in a bar, then remember a number of interesting stuff i never knew about in 2641, then go back to sleep for eons
    That sounds awfully boring to me Ice.
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  19. #18  
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    to each is own
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  20. #19  
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    I'd have to say that choosing mortality is the equivalent of committing suicide. Suicide is just deciding to be more mortal than you have to be. Like maybe absent committing suicide you might live to be 80, but if you commit suicide you live to be 30. Same question.

    In this case, it's actually more severe because I'm being asked to choose between living infinity years, and living some finite number of years. Choosing 30 instead of 80 would be comparatively minor.

    Well, I'm not suicidal. (We're assuming a good quality of life here, right? Not withering to a husk and then being in perpetual pain?)
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I'm still wondering what the topic, as presented, has to do with philosophy...
    Death gives life meaning? A sense of urgency? Or death makes our actions futile? It's a big issue in Existentialism anyway.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    why? I would experience art, learn, see discoveries, live in the future, hopefully participate in space exploration, and enjoy virtual worlds, create new ones. imagination helps.

    also consider all the art, from mozart to renoir, greek mythology, epic tales from odysseus to king arthur, movies, star wars, history, science, apollo moon landing, video games, telescopes, microbiology, flying on a plane, a hanglider, scuba diving, etc etc
    now imagine how a caveman would imagine it would be boring to live in the future because he is projecting his limited experiences as what living in the future would be, he would not have imagined all the stuff mentioned above, similarily there might be epic tales and facinating experiences we could hardly imagine in our own world now.

    As for ephemerial relationships i would cherish them like shooting stars. And episodes from your favorite tv series end, it doesnt prevent you from enjoying them.

    bored? no problem, i would use the sleep technique/implant available in 3128 to sleep for 68 thousand quadliion years, wake up, then crack up at Ricky Spacey formidable joke about 2 Trolondarites and a meta boron in a bar, then remember a number of interesting stuff i never knew about in 2641, then go back to sleep for eons
    That sounds awfully boring to me Ice.
    when you have an all the time in the world things like learning every book by remember would not seem so boring after 10 000 years.
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  23. #22  
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    What if everyone on the planet dies but you due to a asteroid strike, what then would be the point of living?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    What if everyone on the planet dies but you due to a asteroid strike, what then would be the point of living?
    Then I'd just chose to live for a few hundred years, let's say 500, and start ageing in my early four hundreds. But that's cheating in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    What if everyone on the planet dies but you due to a asteroid strike, what then would be the point of living?
    Well, wait for moder nature to rebuild the earth, new species emerge :P
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  26. #25  
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    What if everyone on the planet dies but you due to a asteroid strike, what then would be the point of living?

    Since Im immortal under the original premise, I look around raise my sleeves and tell myself "well time to get cracking" I have several thousands years of work but I have all the time in the world. I would look for survivors, in case I was wrong about there being no survivors while also scavenging for tools and technology and taking notes about where various materials are located for future reference. If I found no survivors I would pick up human remains and take a trip to the north pole in order to preserve the dna, so that thousands of years into the future if I somehow found a way to create infrastructure I could go back there an use the dna to create humans to rebuild a civilization that would be smart enough to develop mars colony, because I would not want to work for another few thousands years to rebuild it all over again a second time
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    This isn't really a scientific answer, more of a personal or philosophical opinion. But when I look at pictures in my family photo album of my grandmother as an infant, a young girl of 17, an old lady of 86, I'm always perplexed by the question - is that really "the same" person? Am I the same person I was 10, 20, 50 years ago? Is there truly some "core me" that hasn't changed since I was born, even though I look different, have different thoughts, attitudes, interests, abilities and have probably forgotten a large percentage of what I experienced?

    So, although the idea of dying tomorrow or even in a few years is still frightening, I also think that if I could live to be 500 or 3000 years old, the person I ended up becoming would be so different from the identity I started out with, that it ultimately wouldn't matter. I don't think "you" could live forever, even if you never died.
    Contiguity. As in; Laws of Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    This isn't really a scientific answer, more of a personal or philosophical opinion. But when I look at pictures in my family photo album of my grandmother as an infant, a young girl of 17, an old lady of 86, I'm always perplexed by the question - is that really "the same" person? Am I the same person I was 10, 20, 50 years ago? Is there truly some "core me" that hasn't changed since I was born, even though I look different, have different thoughts, attitudes, interests, abilities and have probably forgotten a large percentage of what I experienced?

    So, although the idea of dying tomorrow or even in a few years is still frightening, I also think that if I could live to be 500 or 3000 years old, the person I ended up becoming would be so different from the identity I started out with, that it ultimately wouldn't matter. I don't think "you" could live forever, even if you never died.
    Contiguity. As in; Laws of Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Why are you frightened of dying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Why are you frightened of dying?
    What brought you to that assumption?
    I guess that you think dying is just great fun or something. I guess that you would really like to die yourself.
    Why do you want to die Stargate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Why are you frightened of dying?
    What brought you to that assumption?
    I guess that you think dying is just great fun or something. I guess that you would really like to die yourself.
    Why do you want to die Stargate?
    I want to die when the time comes, why do you want to live? yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
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    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
    I don't like the idea of having to make that kind of choice; at one end of my spectrum I see myself as living on through my children. At the other end it is now my time to die. When I think of myself dying I want to be afraid because I am going to leave my family behind, on the other hand when I think about it the only way I can live on, is through my children but I have to l eave them here. This knowledge is very comforting and I have relieved myself of the fear of dying or dead. I think there is more to worry about than death itself, the truth is we do not know what it is until we are already dead. I think to chose immortality would not be enough for me, I like the idea of recycling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarGit
    I want to die when the time comes, why do you want to live? yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
    You know what? You can take the hubris of your Depak Chopresque neo-spirituality and shove it right up your ass. Oh yeah, that's where it had come from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StarGit
    I want to die when the time comes, why do you want to live? yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
    You know what? You can take the hubris of your Depak Chopresque neo-spirituality and shove it right up your ass. Oh yeah, that's where it had come from.
    Wow, if I were like you, I would have chosen mortal + kill me now.
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    I wanna be immortal... for a while...
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    If I was immortal would I be able to withstand being sucked into a black hole? If I strapped on a nuclear bomb how would I survive when it goes off, do I somehow pull myself together? If I never eat a single thing then how do I live expending more energy than I take in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
    I don't like the idea of having to make that kind of choice; at one end of my spectrum I see myself as living on through my children. At the other end it is now my time to die. When I think of myself dying I want to be afraid because I am going to leave my family behind, on the other hand when I think about it the only way I can live on, is through my children but I have to l eave them here. This knowledge is very comforting and I have relieved myself of the fear of dying or dead. I think there is more to worry about than death itself, the truth is we do not know what it is until we are already dead. I think to chose immortality would not be enough for me, I like the idea of recycling.
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.

    Is the universe an isolated system?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.

    Is the universe an isolated system?
    All the cosmological models to date are based on considering our universe as an isolated system, using the General Theory of Relativity as valid instrument for their study and analysis. This may change in time as we learn more. There is a lot we thought correct for many many years, that turned out to be proven either wrong or incomplete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
    I don't like the idea of having to make that kind of choice; at one end of my spectrum I see myself as living on through my children. At the other end it is now my time to die. When I think of myself dying I want to be afraid because I am going to leave my family behind, on the other hand when I think about it the only way I can live on, is through my children but I have to l eave them here. This knowledge is very comforting and I have relieved myself of the fear of dying or dead. I think there is more to worry about than death itself, the truth is we do not know what it is until we are already dead. I think to chose immortality would not be enough for me, I like the idea of recycling.
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.
    That make sense to me in that I cannot see all the information I gathered in my life would be erased when I die. What I see is that the information goes to my children in the first instance and to humanity in the second instance. I think we have to account for the mortal, and, immortal part of ourselves. The other side of the mortal, immortal question is, or even more important is how each individual defines what it means to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
    I don't like the idea of having to make that kind of choice; at one end of my spectrum I see myself as living on through my children. At the other end it is now my time to die. When I think of myself dying I want to be afraid because I am going to leave my family behind, on the other hand when I think about it the only way I can live on, is through my children but I have to l eave them here. This knowledge is very comforting and I have relieved myself of the fear of dying or dead. I think there is more to worry about than death itself, the truth is we do not know what it is until we are already dead. I think to chose immortality would not be enough for me, I like the idea of recycling.
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.
    That make sense to me in that I cannot see all the information I gathered in my life would be erased when I die. What I see is that the information goes to my children in the first instance and to humanity in the second instance. I think we have to account for the mortal, and, immortal part of ourselves. The other side of the mortal, immortal question is, or even more important is how each individual defines what it means to them.
    defining immortality & mortality by each person is not that simple :/.

    my definition of immortality is Never dying, aging, invincible and actually living atleast 5000 years atleast before making any decision
    and my definition of mortality is aging, slowly dying and oblivion after death.

    some might consider their name is enough for immortality, i mean Albert Einstein is immortal even if he died, Achillies is immortal by sense of definition of course O.o
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Immortal is my choice. The mortal stuff is fun, though... Without it, where would the change and learnings and fun be?
    I don't like the idea of having to make that kind of choice; at one end of my spectrum I see myself as living on through my children. At the other end it is now my time to die. When I think of myself dying I want to be afraid because I am going to leave my family behind, on the other hand when I think about it the only way I can live on, is through my children but I have to l eave them here. This knowledge is very comforting and I have relieved myself of the fear of dying or dead. I think there is more to worry about than death itself, the truth is we do not know what it is until we are already dead. I think to chose immortality would not be enough for me, I like the idea of recycling.
    Recycling could be immortality though. Since this is a science forum, I am sure many are familiar with the idea of the conservation of energy. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time.
    That make sense to me in that I cannot see all the information I gathered in my life would be erased when I die. What I see is that the information goes to my children in the first instance and to humanity in the second instance. I think we have to account for the mortal, and, immortal part of ourselves. The other side of the mortal, immortal question is, or even more important is how each individual defines what it means to them.
    defining immortality & mortality by each person is not that simple :/.

    my definition of immortality is Never dying, aging, invincible and actually living atleast 5000 years atleast before making any decision
    and my definition of mortality is aging, slowly dying and oblivion after death.

    some might consider their name is enough for immortality, i mean Albert Einstein is immortal even if he died, Achillies is immortal by sense of definition of course O.o
    You have just said it your self, immortality can be seen any way you want to see it, there is something there for everyone to be right and wrong.
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    Honestly, they both scare the hell out of me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Honestly, they both scare the hell out of me.
    Why? what are you expecting?
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    Death is just another part of life. We must move along and leave this planet in a good way so that others in the future will enjoy it as much as we have.
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    Death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Honestly, they both scare the hell out of me.
    Why? what are you expecting?
    A planet on the back of a giant octopus, in orbit of a giant tortoise who sings the Lord's prayer every Sunday (yes Sunday the blasphemous green son of a ....).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trivium View Post
    Death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Honestly, they both scare the hell out of me.
    Why? what are you expecting?
    A planet on the back of a giant octopus, in orbit of a giant tortoise who sings the Lord's prayer every Sunday (yes Sunday the blasphemous green son of a ....).
    I am going to have to change my password now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Death is just another part of life. We must move along and leave this planet in a good way so that others in the future will enjoy it as much as we have.
    What if someone don't want to move on
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    yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
    That's utterly mad.

    I'm not afraid of being dead and gone. But I know there are far too many horrible ways to get there. Sometimes it's horrible only for the relatives and friends, sometimes it's beyond awful - beyond bearing - for the person who is dying. And that is worth fearing. It certainly ain't any kind of fun.

    It'd be nice to think we'll all die comfortably and peacefully with our families or friends around us. Lots of lucky people do die that way. But not everyone will get that privilege.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    As Woody Allen said, "Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon," and "I'm not afraid of death; I just don't want to be there when it happens."
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
    That's utterly mad.

    I'm not afraid of being dead and gone. But I know there are far too many horrible ways to get there. Sometimes it's horrible only for the relatives and friends, sometimes it's beyond awful - beyond bearing - for the person who is dying. And that is worth fearing. It certainly ain't any kind of fun.

    It'd be nice to think we'll all die comfortably and peacefully with our families or friends around us. Lots of lucky people do die that way. But not everyone will get that privilege.
    Life seems unbearable at times but all in all its enjoyable, as I see it much the same as death because I live with it all my life and enjoy it. I think its utterly mad to worry about it since I am exposed to it much the same as I am exposed to life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Death is just another part of life. We must move along and leave this planet in a good way so that others in the future will enjoy it as much as we have.
    What if someone don't want to move on

    Too bad, we are all racing towards our death with a speed of about 72 heartbeats per minute.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Death is just another part of life. We must move along and leave this planet in a good way so that others in the future will enjoy it as much as we have.
    What if someone don't want to move on
    Too bad, we are all racing towards our death with a speed of about 72 heartbeats per minute.
    to bad lol :/
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    In my opinion we are already immortal. I dont believe in the big bang theory, in my opinion we have a finite set of matter that was always here. And since the set is finite, everything that has been created will be created again and again and again. And since you cant be conscience about being unconscience. For you it will be a flick of a finger to start all over again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrjixies View Post
    I dont believe in the big bang theory, in my opinion we have a finite set of matter that was always here.
    Why do you think the two ideas are contradictory?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Mortal! If I was born immortal I would be the greatest historian of humanity. I would live until the next big catastrophe, the sun's death, as it swallows the earth I would probably be in the red dwarf even after the explosion because of gravity, and then pain for a very long time...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homysteu View Post
    Mortal! If I was born immortal I would be the greatest historian of humanity. I would live until the next big catastrophe, the sun's death, as it swallows the earth I would probably be in the red dwarf even after the explosion because of gravity, and then pain for a very long time...
    I would live until the next big catastrophe, the sun's death,

    You are contradicting yourself if you were immortal. If you were immortal you would not have known birth. Can you be born from mortals and become immortal, interesting idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrjixies View Post
    In my opinion we are already immortal. I dont believe in the big bang theory, in my opinion we have a finite set of matter that was always here. And since the set is finite, everything that has been created will be created again and again and again. And since you cant be conscience about being unconscience. For you it will be a flick of a finger to start all over again...
    In what way would you say we are immortal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    yes I think dying is fun just as living, I am sure that is a bit too much for you but you will understand some day.
    That's utterly mad.

    I'm not afraid of being dead and gone. But I know there are far too many horrible ways to get there. Sometimes it's horrible only for the relatives and friends, sometimes it's beyond awful - beyond bearing - for the person who is dying. And that is worth fearing. It certainly ain't any kind of fun.

    It'd be nice to think we'll all die comfortably and peacefully with our families or friends around us. Lots of lucky people do die that way. But not everyone will get that privilege.
    That's utterly mad.
    Ok Adelady, You seem to think Having fun dying is crazy, however, we are born with death, there is no way to separate ourselves from the fact that as we live we die. How can we enjoy life and not death? Enjoying death is the same as enjoying life. The fear of death is ultimately the fear of life. I do not think we should equate death or life with suffering.
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    I don't like to think I won't have as much fun dying as I have had living.

    I love life as it is so sweet and wonderful
    So much more than always wonderful enough
    and I don't wish to give it up anytime soon
    but dear sweet death is always life's betrothed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't like to think I won't have as much fun dying as I have had living.

    I love life as it is so sweet and wonderful
    So much more than always wonderful enough
    and I don't wish to give it up anytime soon
    but dear sweet death is always life's betrothed
    MF, You fear death and you do not know why you fear it. If you ask yourself why you fear it, you might be able to understand, at least somewhat, what it is you are calling death. I am sure you will soon see that it has to do with your interpretation of what you are calling death. You live your life as you call it, but what is that? you cannot answer the question for life or death, yet you fear death. it is the same with religion, you cannot get rid of god, or the devil will have to go too. My take on this life and death is, I love death, as I love life, and now my fear is gone.
    people equate suffering with death, but so many people suffer and live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrjixies View Post
    In my opinion we are already immortal. I dont believe in the big bang theory, in my opinion we have a finite set of matter that was always here. And since the set is finite, everything that has been created will be created again and again and again. And since you cant be conscience about being unconscience. For you it will be a flick of a finger to start all over again...
    In what way would you say we are immortal?
    In the sense of matter. If you take a "soul" out of the equation and you believe that you being you only depends on the structure created from atoms. Within a finite set you will be created again.
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    Ok Adelady, You seem to think Having fun dying is crazy, however, we are born with death, there is no way to separate ourselves from the fact that as we live we die. How can we enjoy life and not death? Enjoying death is the same as enjoying life. The fear of death is ultimately the fear of life. I do not think we should equate death or life with suffering.
    No. I think "a good death" is a blessing to both the dying person and their family, friends and any medical professionals involved.

    On the other hand, I think death too often is absolutely horrible.

    - death in childbirth,
    - the miserable deaths of soldiers who died crying for their mothers, (today is Anzac Day in Australia - a day to commemorate the pointless deaths of many thousands of young men),
    - the unrelieved agony of people dying from cancer in the spine (or any other form of cancer which invades the nervous system),
    - the misery leading to death by suicide
    - the helpless horror of parents watching their child die from incurable illness
    - death by starvation

    - and all the other dozens of ways, avoidable or inevitable, that don't allow peace or grace or gratitude at the end.

    I think the idea that it could be an enjoyable or joyful time for many people is absolutely right.

    Saying that it should be fun is an insult to all of us who grieve or who think about the prospect of grief.

    (You might have forgotten. My husband dropped dying at my feet last year. If I and the ambos and the ER and ICU people hadn't saved his life initially with desperate CPR and other extreme measures, and then others helped him back to health since, do you really think that I - or anyone else in my position - should see that death as "enjoyable"? He wouldn't have had any enjoyment out of it. He was unconscious before he hit the floor and dying from that point on. It's offensive and insulting. )
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    The immortality described in the OP sounds like putting a brick in a river. I don't want to be that brick.
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    I should certainly like to live for at least twenty or thirty million years in order to see new subduction zones develop and new mountain ranges arise. (And to find out if Cher will still be going in 248900 AD.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't like to think I won't have as much fun dying as I have had living.

    I love life as it is so sweet and wonderful
    So much more than always wonderful enough
    and I don't wish to give it up anytime soon
    but dear sweet death is always life's betrothed
    MF, You fear death and you do not know why you fear it. If you ask yourself why you fear it, you might be able to understand, at least somewhat, what it is you are calling death. I am sure you will soon see that it has to do with your interpretation of what you are calling death. You live your life as you call it, but what is that? you cannot answer the question for life or death, yet you fear death. it is the same with religion, you cannot get rid of god, or the devil will have to go too. My take on this life and death is, I love death, as I love life, and now my fear is gone.
    people equate suffering with death, but so many people suffer and live.
    Stargate, you make a wrong take on my poem. I am not afraid of death. It is inevitable and I hope to enjoy it if I can and if I cannot, oh well, you do what you can. By the way, I don't believe in either God or the Devil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrjixies View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrjixies View Post
    In my opinion we are already immortal. I dont believe in the big bang theory, in my opinion we have a finite set of matter that was always here. And since the set is finite, everything that has been created will be created again and again and again. And since you cant be conscience about being unconscience. For you it will be a flick of a finger to start all over again...
    In what way would you say we are immortal?
    In the sense of matter. If you take a "soul" out of the equation and you believe that you being you only depends on the structure created from atoms. Within a finite set you will be created again.
    Well, I like the way you turn it and make it sound, what I really like is your ability to turn it and look again and again. I think most people do not have that ability, it transforms your version to make it antique. I think there are arguments for, and against immortality, as far as my thoughts go mortality and immortality is about degrees, you can't have one without the other. If you begin to think in ways of separating the two, you will come up with fragments of truth pertaining to life/death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't like to think I won't have as much fun dying as I have had living.

    I love life as it is so sweet and wonderful
    So much more than always wonderful enough
    and I don't wish to give it up anytime soon
    but dear sweet death is always life's betrothed
    MF, You fear death and you do not know why you fear it. If you ask yourself why you fear it, you might be able to understand, at least somewhat, what it is you are calling death. I am sure you will soon see that it has to do with your interpretation of what you are calling death. You live your life as you call it, but what is that? you cannot answer the question for life or death, yet you fear death. it is the same with religion, you cannot get rid of god, or the devil will have to go too. My take on this life and death is, I love death, as I love life, and now my fear is gone.
    people equate suffering with death, but so many people suffer and live.
    Stargate, you make a wrong take on my poem. I am not afraid of death. It is inevitable and I hope to enjoy it if I can and if I cannot, oh well, you do what you can. By the way, I don't believe in either God or the Devil.
    MF, you don't have to do anything, after all it is your choice who you want in your life. I have no problems with religion, yet I am not religious. I have no problems with god, so I do not create one, I will create one when I am at that point where I need one.

    Some people find it necessary to create bombs, yet they create a god and ask for permission to use them, and most times god give it to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I should certainly like to live for at least twenty or thirty million years in order to see new subduction zones develop and new mountain ranges arise. (And to find out if Cher will still be going in 248900 AD.)
    Well John, you must have been living for a very long time to want that. I wonder how many times you have exchanged your body to have reached here and now, and even more importantly, where are you coming from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Ok Adelady, You seem to think Having fun dying is crazy, however, we are born with death, there is no way to separate ourselves from the fact that as we live we die. How can we enjoy life and not death? Enjoying death is the same as enjoying life. The fear of death is ultimately the fear of life. I do not think we should equate death or life with suffering.
    No. I think "a good death" is a blessing to both the dying person and their family, friends and any medical professionals involved.

    On the other hand, I think death too often is absolutely horrible.

    - death in childbirth,
    - the miserable deaths of soldiers who died crying for their mothers, (today is Anzac Day in Australia - a day to commemorate the pointless deaths of many thousands of young men),
    - the unrelieved agony of people dying from cancer in the spine (or any other form of cancer which invades the nervous system),
    - the misery leading to death by suicide
    - the helpless horror of parents watching their child die from incurable illness
    - death by starvation

    - and all the other dozens of ways, avoidable or inevitable, that don't allow peace or grace or gratitude at the end.

    I think the idea that it could be an enjoyable or joyful time for many people is absolutely right.

    Saying that it should be fun is an insult to all of us who grieve or who think about the prospect of grief.

    (You might have forgotten. My husband dropped dying at my feet last year. If I and the ambos and the ER and ICU people hadn't saved his life initially with desperate CPR and other extreme measures, and then others helped him back to health since, do you really think that I - or anyone else in my position - should see that death as "enjoyable"? He wouldn't have had any enjoyment out of it. He was unconscious before he hit the floor and dying from that point on. It's offensive and insulting. )
    I still can hear remembrance of pain in your written word, however I would like to pull you a little back into reality of now.

    It seems to me you are merging pain and suffering with death, this identification blur the line of what is what, made by who, or whom. Death in itself is a part of what we call life, it is indivisible. I f we learn to understand its components we would be able to remove the pain it causes us. I f we could arrest the way we think about it and put it in a place of acceptance and beauty, we would be better served. Pain and suffering is what we create, yet we are capable of creating anything we want and don't want.

    We do not have to loose people to war and horrible deaths if we don't want to. We do not have to lose people to disease if we work together.
    I know it is quite painful to see your husband lying at your feet, there is noway to get away from the initial shock that brings with it. We cannot get away from attachments without going through time, however, we can make it much simpler and acceptable. I do not think we should be grieving in terms of life or death, and since we cannot separate them, we can celebrate them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I should certainly like to live for at least twenty or thirty million years in order to see new subduction zones develop and new mountain ranges arise. (And to find out if Cher will still be going in 248900 AD.)
    Well John, you must have been living for a very long time to want that. I wonder how many times you have exchanged your body to have reached here and now, and even more importantly, where are you coming from?
    Why should I need to have lived for a long time in order to want to live for a long time? That seems an illogical expectation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I should certainly like to live for at least twenty or thirty million years in order to see new subduction zones develop and new mountain ranges arise. (And to find out if Cher will still be going in 248900 AD.)
    Well John, you must have been living for a very long time to want that. I wonder how many times you have exchanged your body to have reached here and now, and even more importantly, where are you coming from?
    Why should I need to have lived for a long time in order to want to live for a long time? That seems an illogical expectation.
    You seem to know how long it will take to see those things, I think you said about 30 million years, how else could you have known? I also see Cher, is still doing the same thing from the past and will be doing so for at least another 30 million years. John can you laugh out loud?
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    Mr. Painter, definitely not! Your whole suggestion is acutely uncomfortable, but its catch makes it downright terrifying! Remaining in existence even after the apocalypse would be unfathomably torturous. What would you be worth as an individual if there was no way to utilize any part of yourself? No human would be capable of bearing such a life. The wild irony of your idea is that continuing to live after every other trace of life has permanently disappeared reduces being alive to worthless, and therefore defeats the purpose. Stargate, you have made outstanding points. Although death itself is the end of life, the actual act of dying is part of life since you are still alive while going through it. If you are fortunate enough to die of natural causes, then it could easily be possible to enjoy the period that you spend dying if you view it as simply a stage of your life. This sounds odd, but in a way, you are right. You're looking at this from the perspective that life is life and death is death, black and white, and if you are alive and capable of showing it, then there is no reason to act dead. This is the sort of attitude that allows humans to have a centennial, so it's great that you carry it. You also sound quite cogent by saying that for some people, general living is much more difficult than dying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Please just give me your thougts and ideas Wheather you would want to be immortal or not, i don't want to hear if it's impossible or possible.

    Einstein once said something... ''those of us who believe in physics know the past and future are only stubborn illusions.''


    I already am spread throughout space immortally.
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  75. #74  
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    why not both?
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  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    You seem to know how long it will take to see those things, I think you said about 30 million years, how else could you have known?
    He probably has more than a vague understanding of how tectonic activity takes place.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I should certainly like to live for at least twenty or thirty million years in order to see new subduction zones develop and new mountain ranges arise. (And to find out if Cher will still be going in 248900 AD.)
    With future medical technology she'll look even perkier.
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  78. #77  
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    Do you belieeeeeve in life after love...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post


    Do you belieeeeeve in life after love...
    Gorgeous. Especially the little veins.
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    jgoti, love the avatar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa View Post
    Mr. Painter, definitely not! Your whole suggestion is acutely uncomfortable, but its catch makes it downright terrifying! Remaining in existence even after the apocalypse would be unfathomably torturous. What would you be worth as an individual if there was no way to utilize any part of yourself? No human would be capable of bearing such a life. The wild irony of your idea is that continuing to live after every other trace of life has permanently disappeared reduces being alive to worthless, and therefore defeats the purpose. Stargate, you have made outstanding points. Although death itself is the end of life, the actual act of dying is part of life since you are still alive while going through it. If you are fortunate enough to die of natural causes, then it could easily be possible to enjoy the period that you spend dying if you view it as simply a stage of your life. This sounds odd, but in a way, you are right. You're looking at this from the perspective that life is life and death is death, black and white, and if you are alive and capable of showing it, then there is no reason to act dead. This is the sort of attitude that allows humans to have a centennial, so it's great that you carry it. You also sound quite cogent by saying that for some people, general living is much more difficult than dying.
    Well being last living in the universe kinda counts as a winner, the last being that came out victorious from the depths of hell you might even call that person a god.

    and that is worth the pain of everything in my opinion
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