Thread: The "meaning" of death.

If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.

Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.

If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

Thus, death itself is not innately "evil" or "wrong", it's merely returning a loan - the life the Universe has temporarily granted you for the duration of your existence.

You're making the Universe anthropomorphic, the universe doesn't 'give' anyone anything.

Leaving out religious ideas; death is an intricate part of life in the sense that death is indispensable as one of the reasons you get to live in the first place. As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself. So in that sense, you don't get granted anything by the universe, rather you are one stage, one aspect of the universe itself.

Since we are all made from stardust as Carl Sagan and Neil DeGrasse Tyson point out - in my opinion we are specific configurations of matter in the universe that gets configured into something else once this particular configuration has reached its end. To misquote Joseph Barker - Its chemistry all the way down.....

Originally Posted by KALSTER

As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself.

Delenn from Babylon 5?

Originally Posted by Daecon

Originally Posted by KALSTER

As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself.

Delenn from Babylon 5?

Haha, think he stole it from someone else.

Edit: Carl Sagan: “We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”

Originally Posted by Trivium

You're making the Universe anthropomorphic, the universe doesn't 'give' anyone anything.

Anthropomorphizing is not necessary to give. We acquired life, acquiring necessitates that something be either (A) Taken (B) Received. It was received, a gift without a conscious giver and/or sentiment is still a gift.

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

Live your time here to the fullest.

Laugh
Love
experience sorrow and joy

we have a one way ticket people

TRY to not have regrets

Originally Posted by Genesis

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

A star is dead.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by Genesis

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

A star is dead.

SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

sobbing

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by Genesis

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

A star is dead.

SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

sobbing

You shine with a different kind of light though.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by Genesis

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

A star is dead.

SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

sobbing

You shine with a different kind of light though.

chuckle...thanks darling.... I am laughing

Originally Posted by Daecon

If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.
Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.
If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

But the Universe is NOTHING!
What our senses pick up is a model of reality. The Universe is composed only of matter and force particles - none of which have ever been seen directly. We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.
It leaves us to ask the ultimate question as to why there is something rather nothing. Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
For me everything points to the so called Multiverse. The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.
If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.

We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.

I think that's a common notion among people. It's just a different version of "there must be more than this".

No. There doesn't have to be more. There's already more than any one person can fully comprehend.

Take the time, make the effort, to really see (or perceive some way or another) what there is in the world you're lucky enough to be in has to offer. And luck, pure chance, is one really big aspect of your life - whether you made it into the world at all and at this particular moment in time and that you've made it this far.

Originally Posted by ox

Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?

Um, because if there truly was nothing we wouldn't be thinking at all?

For me everything points to the so called Multiverse.

How so?

The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.

Wild guess...

If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.

I find it something, but not spooky.

Originally Posted by ox

Originally Posted by Daecon

If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.
Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.
If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

But the Universe is NOTHING!
What our senses pick up is a model of reality. The Universe is composed only of matter and force particles - none of which have ever been seen directly. We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.
It leaves us to ask the ultimate question as to why there is something rather nothing. Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
For me everything points to the so called Multiverse. The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.
If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.

EVERY GIVE BIRTH?

That is REALITY!

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by ox

Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?

Um, because if there truly was nothing we wouldn't be thinking at all?

What makes you think that it is you only that is thinking, and your thoughts are not the average of a myriad of copies of you?
Compress the matter and force particles in your body and you will be reduced to less than a pinhead. Compress the whole Universe and it will reduce to about the size of the Earth. At about 90 billion light years across it means that you and the Universe are effectively nothing. Try finding a body the size of Earth in that immensity of space. There is plenty of space in the Universe for more than just itself.
Then to ask what exactly is life? The best answer we have is that life is based on replicators, to include genes, memes and even computer viruses. Death is not the extinction of a colony of cells and thought processes but the extinction of replicators. If replication is made in the Multiverse, as should be the case, then death would need redefining.

Originally Posted by ox

What makes you think that it is you only that is thinking

Could you highlight the portion where I indicated that it was just me thinking?

Compress the matter and force particles in your body and you will be reduced to less than a pinhead. Compress the whole Universe and it will reduce to about the size of the Earth. At about 90 billion light years across it means that you and the Universe are effectively nothing. Try finding a body the size of Earth in that immensity of space.

So what?

There is plenty of space in the Universe for more than just itself.

Huh?

Then to ask what exactly is life? The best answer we have is that life is based on replicators, to include genes, memes and even computer viruses. Death is not the extinction of a colony of cells and thought processes but the extinction of replicators. If replication is made in the Multiverse, as should be the case, then death would need redefining.

What?

I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
Can nothing think?
Cogito ergo sum.

The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.

Originally Posted by babe

Live your time here to the fullest.

Laugh
Love
experience sorrow and joy

we have a one way ticket people

TRY to not have regrets

Babe I think we have a round-trip ticket, we can exchange it for a one way ticket though. As you say enjoy it now as intensely as you can.

Why does life or death need to have meaning?
Maybe the questions should not be about the meaning of life or death but about your meaning in your life and death instead.
I think life only has the meaning the person living it gives to it and that death is a part of that life.
So if the life was meaningful then the death should be meaningful too, and if the life was meaningless the death would be meaningless.

Originally Posted by dan hunter

Why does life or death need to have meaning?
Maybe the questions should not be about the meaning of life or death but about your meaning in your life and death instead.
I think life only has the meaning the person living it gives to it and that death is a part of that life.
So if the life was meaningful then the death should be meaningful too, and if the life was meaningless the death would be meaningless.

Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.

Originally Posted by Trivium

Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.

That is true only if they are relying on others besides themselves to supply their meaning.
It seems to me that leaving the meaning of your life for somebody else to decide is a terribly dangerous thing to do

Originally Posted by dan hunter

Originally Posted by Trivium

Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.

That is true only if they are relying on others besides themselves to supply their meaning.
It seems to me that leaving the meaning of your life for somebody else to decide is a terribly dangerous thing to do

Yes. We need to provide our OWN meaning to our personal time here.

It is what we make of it, and what we leave behind in any even minute way. IMHO

Originally Posted by Daecon

If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.

Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.

If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

Thus, death itself is not innately "evil" or "wrong", it's merely returning a loan - the life the Universe has temporarily granted you for the duration of your existence.

Death is normal, and not evil. It's simply how life on Earth is, and no natural phenomenon has been proven to be eternal.

Who says though that the Universe is a sapient entity?

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
Can nothing think?
Cogito ergo sum.

The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.

If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like. We can't. Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum. If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking. Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.

Originally Posted by ox

If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like.

Er, who said anything about control?

Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum.

I don't think, therefore I am? I can see that it applies to some people.

If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking.

Nope.

Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.

So what?

You're missing the point: SOMETHING (regardless of what) is doing the thinking. Therefore there is not nothing.

What meaning does death have? We know that many peoples lives do have meaning and they enjoy themselves through life as best they can.

one day each and everyone of us will find the meaning of death, when we are lying on our death bed and thinking of our lives.

we only realize things to late

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Well isn't that as it should be?

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Well isn't that as it should be?

No idea, like the complexity

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

I have no idea what I am supposed to say to that, I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat. I am doing my thing one day at a time, and enjoying talking to people like you, that's it. I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.

Originally Posted by Stargate

I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat.

Too difficult, you normally pull your answers out of the other end of your anatomy. Viz.

I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.

Crap.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by ox

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
Can nothing think?
Cogito ergo sum.

The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.

If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like. We can't. Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum. If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking. Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.

I don't think, therefore I am? I can see that it applies to some people.

If I did not know any better, it would seem as if you were gossiping about me.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by Genesis

As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY

A star is dead.

I hope they pick Judy Garland for the role. She'll STiLL knock 'em in the aisles !

Hey, magic is magic, Duckman. Just don't pull flowers out of that place. It would be self-defeating. AFLACK ! (Obscure reference to American advertising. Do what I do, pay no attention)

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Stargate

I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat.

Too difficult, you normally pull your answers out of the other end of your anatomy. Viz.

I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.

Crap.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

[shameless self-promotion]

That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

[/shameless self-promotion]

Originally Posted by Daecon

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

[shameless self-promotion]

That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

[/shameless self-promotion]

Its really easy when you want to do it. Make up anything in life and it begins to live and take on structure, the things is, it all begins with a thought, so if it did not exist before you can bring it into being. You could call that a BB if you like it would explain some thing about your view of the BB.

Originally Posted by Daecon

[shameless self-promotion]

That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

[/shameless self-promotion]

Sorry if I've stolen your thunder, wasn't intentional. All I was saying is that life was part and parcel of the BB. Perhaps the greatest of all spectacles did not spawn life, life came along with it. Ever present, just not always with form. Life needs a universe of matter and physical laws to manifest itself. I'm not going any further for now, the risk of sounding totally weird or mentally disturbed is a stigma attached to such ramblings and is something I find not too palatable at the moment.

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Well isn't that as it should be?

No idea, like the complexity

And I the simplicity *S*...

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Well isn't that as it should be?

No idea, like the complexity

And I the simplicity *S*...

oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Mr. Painter

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Death means never having to say you're sorry.

You are only saying that because you are alive.

For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?

Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?

You make it sound simple and not complex at all

Well isn't that as it should be?

No idea, like the complexity

And I the simplicity *S*...

oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P

*smack*

Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!!

Originally Posted by babe

And I the simplicity *S*...

oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P[/QUOTE]

*smack*

Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!![/QUOTE]

Best I can do right now Babe....since the meaning of death is at stake here ....... Your Epitaph

Here lies the body of a theatre whore
Sold herself to the Hollywood lure
Not for money, drugs or sex
Just a simple role, not too complex

edit: where I live whore rhymes with poor but in case it rhymes with pore where you live. then substitute lore for lure. Works either way

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Originally Posted by babe

And I the simplicity *S*...

oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P

*smack*

Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!![/QUOTE]

Best I can do right now Babe....since the meaning of death is at stake here ....... Your Epitaph



Here lies the body of a theatre whore
Sold herself to the Hollywood lure
Not for money, drugs or sex
Just a simple role, not too complex

edit: where I live whore rhymes with poor but in case it rhymes with pore where you live. then substitute lore for lure. Works either way[/QUOTE]

Laughing ...this is more like it

Here lies the dust of a theatre whore
She left Hollywood and slammed the movie door
Her heart was in laughter and music and more
Thus there she remains, a poor theatre whore.

On a more serious note.....after centuries of observation on a global scale, death has been linked directly to living. It has been determined that death is more likely to occur after something living dies. Scientists at the Dusseldorf University for Mortal Beings are satisfied that death means life has ended. "There is a correlation that exists between life and death, in that life must precede death in order for the latter to take place". This according to Professor Dee Mize, the leader of Project Dark Angel.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

On a more serious note.....after centuries of observation on a global scale, death has been linked directly to living. It has been determined that death is more likely to occur after something living dies. Scientists at the Dusseldorf University for Mortal Beings are satisfied that death means life has ended. "There is a correlation that exists between life and death, in that life must precede death in order for the latter to take place". This according to Professor Dee Mize, the leader of Project Dark Angel.

Zin, I think there is also the angle that life cannot be experienced without death, much the same as light without dark. If we have no experience of death while we live, how could we die? When I look at it from that angle, there can only be change. I strongly think it is a matter of how we want to see things. I encompass I, and all my I's, I query things as I perceive them to be, the answers I get from the questions I ask, I accept, until they change.

~ I find myself wanting to add to this ponderous subject with my own twisted logic. To have a meaning to death there needs to be a 'alive' state. Not just not alive but dead requires that there was a life to end. Death is not the absence of life, but the end of one. I will add that as life does not seem to require a meaning but is a opportunity to be not dead.. Interesting. That to want to define death I can only say that at the termination of a life we have a death. Only by the process of death can we have a dead what was previously alive.

Good old Mr. Hawking.

And apparently Carl Sagan! I also heard Stephen Hawking say: "We are the universe contemplating itself" in one of this documentaries.

To add to what some people are saying, I have read over at least 90% of these, and if my memory serves me correctly I am seeing that most of us seem to be edging toward the notion that life is of extreme importance, and death is of little importance; however, sprinkled throughout this discussion is a light-hearted discomfort with the possibility that it is true. By that, I mean to say that people seem to be unsettled by the fact that death may not be as important as some have learned to believe.

Whatever someone believes, whether it's in an afterlife or no afterlife, our bodies came from the earth and back to the earth they will go. I suppose that Zin is thinking of the "big-picture" and not just the Big Bang.

I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think I have seen of death.

Some one obviously never had a family pet...

My first best friend was a dog. Long gone physically but not in memory. I am not the maudlin sort. Sure of course the physical born bodies will return to the stardust they were bore from, but I don't think of that as death.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

but I don't think of that as death.

Then you should get hold of, and read, a dictionary.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.

I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.

Reading a dictionary? Really? OK, let me talk it over with woofy the stardust dog. According to woofy, human ducks are ok, and not as grumpy as say sometimes sound. On Earth woofy was a pretty smart dog, but according to woofy, smart stardust is less of a constrained speaking place. Dogs, huh?

Originally Posted by Mayflow

Reading a dictionary? Really?

Yes.
Because you appear to be using a different definition of the word "death" than everyone else in this thread.
If you're going to use your own idiosyncratic definition then it's up to you to make sure we know what you mean.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.

I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.

Yeah, I understand that viewpoint. Dawkin's selfish genes and all that is part of that viewpoint. Individuals can die but life goes on without them, etc.Most people are far more self centered than that and as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Originally Posted by dan hunter

as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.

The termination of a life. Death and the dieing.. we can be strong and just move on, mentally. You have brought many things to me and this has drawn me to remember.. ~ I have been witness to the deaths of too many.. sat with and talked it through.. " Hold my hand I am scared.." It should not be cast aside as easy or light, and is always a very sad moment.. but, that we must climb out of the grief and continue for our own mental stability and that we never forget. What has been seen can not be unseen. Helping where you can.. We all have stories to tell. You do not need to die to understand what death is. Some experience of it is enough. I use this simerly; When the flame of life is extinguished the memory of it remains strong. The lifeless body remains as a tomb until consumed by the Earth it rose out of. It's a disquieting subject to experience. Talk with a undertaker regarding the dignity offered.. The meaning of death is a personal issue we all must deal with at some time.. If you can avoid it, do so..

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by dan hunter

as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.

He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.

Originally Posted by Daecon

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by dan hunter

as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.

He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.

A PEKING DUCK AT THAT!!! *laughing*

Originally Posted by Daecon

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by dan hunter

as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.

He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.

The duck will be daisies someday? Daisies may be easier to talk with. Ain't evolution grand?

I subscribe to the viewpoint that we all continue on in some nature even after we die. However, the reconfiguration and recycling of the elements which make us up does not indicate immortality. It just demonstrates that you are a small piece in an ever-changing system. Simply because the carbon in my body will go on to be something else does not mean that I will go on to be something else. I will be dead.

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

I subscribe to the viewpoint that we all continue on in some nature even after we die. However, the reconfiguration and recycling of the elements which make us up does not indicate immortality. It just demonstrates that you are a small piece in an ever-changing system. Simply because the carbon in my body will go on to be something else does not mean that I will go on to be something else. I will be dead.

I don't think it is all that cut and dried. The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think it is all that cut and dried.

And you're wrong.

The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.

Regardless, they won't be Flick.

Daisies may be easier to talk with.

I imagine you'd be quite happy to find intellectual equals...

I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think it is all that cut and dried. The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.

You're grossly overestimating my impact on the world.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?

Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
All of which put him in a different category from you.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?

Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
All of which put him in a different category from you.

Maybe, but I still like him.

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

You're grossly overestimating my impact on the world.

Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
All of which put him in a different category from you.

Maybe Flick's genetic matter will be naturally selected so that in the future, reason dominates the world

I mean, honestly, in a world of around 7 1/2 billion people, the death of one person may be tragic to those locally experiencing the death of that person; but if we zoom out and imagine every human being to be a part of just one big organism as Zin was saying - it's really like a skin cell dying. The organism to whom that skin cell belongs will remain, humans will remain, life in general will remain. In fact, the death and shedding of skin cells is a normal, healthy process. So, to liken a human death to that a skin cell's death, one could say it's a normal, healthy process not for the individual, but the greater whole.

One's "impact" on the world (as in, one's influence on those around him) I suppose then is dependent strictly upon how much in love with themselves one really is; or how in love with someone the surrounding people are; or how in love someone is with those around them; or possibly some balanced combination of these.

I'm sure if the universe was a sentient being, then it probably wouldn't even notice a human dying, just like we wouldn't even notice a skin cell dying. All we would notice are the flakes of skin shedding, and each flake we see represents hundreds of thousands of dead cells. So, if the human race suddenly became non-existent, we would simply be flakes of skin falling off the universe.

Death is meaningless. Life is the most important thing to consider. We are alive, and therefore contribute to life; we die, and therefore contribute to life.

Further, escaping the cycle of life and death (Samsara, as it is known in Buddhist philosophy) isn't talking about a literal cycle of death and reincarnation (that is, if you were to consider that there is no empirical evidence for reincarnation or any afterlife, and therefore approached Buddhist or any religious text with the presupposition that they are allegorical by nature, as written work requiring some tough literary analysis). I argue that Samsara - the cycle of life and death - is in reality the cycles of interpersonal change, personal change, cultural change, etc; as well as the attachment humans have with life and death, specifically our fear of death and our desire for longer or different lives, or the same lives anew.

Enlightenment wouldn't then be some magical release from a world in which people die and are reincarnated as goats but somehow have no memory of their former lives all based on their actions in a previous LIFE, as the result of meditation and thought of words like "Ohm" for a long time; it is the extreme acceptance of reality as it is presented before us in the current moment, and it is the broadening of our personal perspective and the inexhaustible drive to understand the nature of this reality, that ultimately extinguishes our fears and desires and thus releases us from this "cycle of life and death" to which humans have culturally subscribed.

(For the record, I don't consider myself a Buddhist; I just like to read a lot and I'm using familiar concepts to describe what I'm thinking).

- That is what I think the meaning of death really is... or isn't. Does anyone have any thoughts?!

Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7

Does anyone have any thoughts?!

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children

I would agree. I also think that calling it "immortality" in that respect is a bit misleading, because even generational story-telling in families will have it's limits in recent history - it's oldest stories - and nothing more than that (lost because they've been forgotten or overshadowed by some other story); and "immortality" would not be achieved genetically because it is not entirely you that is being passed genetically, rather fragments of genetic material that you shared from a previous generation and merge with another family of a different genetic makeup to make up a child.

Hmmm.... Many religious texts do discuss the importance of lineage and merging families. Could there possibly be a connection?

Originally Posted by dan hunter

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.

we are all important in our own ways but after 4 generations or so we will be forgotten unless we contribute to human civilization in larger than life manner. people like Einstein Maxwell Newton (scientists) Gandhi Buddha Jesus Christ. these people will be remembered as long as there is human civilization. (unless there is a break due to a world catastrophe) they contributed in a manner that we can not. i do not believe the rest of us are less important but we will not be remembered too long because our contributions although important are not large enough. look at famous silent film actors. even they are now almost forgotten. but no one should feel inferior to those i mentioned. we are all important for the now. as long as you try hard to better world you have done your important part.

sorry. it is hard to express thoughts like these.

Baby, take off your coat, real slow, leave your hat on, there is some thinking to do. What say you, baby?


Ok, here is what I say. Samsara is metaphorical for a cycle of discontent. To me, and yeah, I dig Buddhism too, it isn't about escaping from human life form, it is about escaping from cycles of thinking that cause you recycling unhappiness. <That place SUCKS! :-)

Originally Posted by Chucknorium

Originally Posted by dan hunter

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.

we are all important in our own ways but after 4 generations or so we will be forgotten unless we contribute to human civilization in larger than life manner. people like Einstein Maxwell Newton (scientists) Gandhi Buddha Jesus Christ. these people will be remembered as long as there is human civilization. (unless there is a break due to a world catastrophe) they contributed in a manner that we can not. i do not believe the rest of us are less important but we will not be remembered too long because our contributions although important are not large enough. look at famous silent film actors. even they are now almost forgotten. but no one should feel inferior to those i mentioned. we are all important for the now. as long as you try hard to better world you have done your important part.

sorry. it is hard to express thoughts like these.

I totally agree with you.

Ok, here is what I say. Samsara is metaphorical for a cycle of discontent. To me, and yeah, I dig Buddhism too, it isn't about escaping from human life form, it is about escaping from cycles of thinking that cause you recycling unhappiness

And you!

~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?

Originally Posted by astromark

~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?

What you have just said reminds me of a story about the Buddha (and I believe this to be of one of the most significant teachings to consider). I read it in an anthology edited by Donald S. Lopez Jr., and if my memory serves me correctly it was a time when the Buddha was old aged and near dying. One of his disciples said the Buddha, "You spent 45 years of your life teaching the Dhamma, after choosing to stay in Samsara. Before you came here, we didn't have your teachings. Now we do because you are here, but you're about to leave us. What will happen to your teachings when you are gone?" The Buddha replied something to the effect of, "I spent 45 years teaching the Dhamma, the middle way, The Eightfold Path as I have come to learn it. When you attain enlightenment then you will spend your days teaching the Dhamma as you have come to learn it. But, remember that in 45 years time [after the Buddha's death] I will not have said a word."

Originally Posted by dan hunter

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.

I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.

Yeah, I understand that viewpoint. Dawkin's selfish genes and all that is part of that viewpoint. Individuals can die but life goes on without them, etc.Most people are far more self centered than that and as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.

Dan, to some extent I do think it is personal and private, you do not think of everyone dying with you, or maybe some do.

Originally Posted by astromark

~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?

You are very realistic, I am not sure how you manage to stay that way. You are not religious I am sure.

This thread needs appropriate music:
Sparks - Mattia Cupelli - YouTube

Anyhow, I subscribe to the view posted by member Flick Montana (post #67).

Originally Posted by Stargate

You are very realistic, I am not sure how you manage to stay that way. You are not religious I am sure.

~ Yes, 100% Atheist but yet aware of other views than mine.

Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7

I mean, honestly, in a world of around 7 1/2 billion people, the death of one person may be tragic to those locally experiencing the death of that person; but if we zoom out and imagine every human being to be a part of just one big organism as Zin was saying - it's really like a skin cell dying. The organism to whom that skin cell belongs will remain, humans will remain, life in general will remain. In fact, the death and shedding of skin cells is a normal, healthy process. So, to liken a human death to that a skin cell's death, one could say it's a normal, healthy process not for the individual, but the greater whole.

One's "impact" on the world (as in, one's influence on those around him) I suppose then is dependent strictly upon how much in love with themselves one really is; or how in love with someone the surrounding people are; or how in love someone is with those around them; or possibly some balanced combination of these.

I'm sure if the universe was a sentient being, then it probably wouldn't even notice a human dying, just like we wouldn't even notice a skin cell dying. All we would notice are the flakes of skin shedding, and each flake we see represents hundreds of thousands of dead cells. So, if the human race suddenly became non-existent, we would simply be flakes of skin falling off the universe.

If you zoom out even further, then you can see Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" where Earth is supposed to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

Everything is a matter of perspective. I'm sure my own life matters a lot more to me than it does to other people. Also old age scares me a lot more than death. When you die, you stop caring how crumby your life is.

Originally Posted by dan hunter

Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7

Does anyone have any thoughts?!

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.

Disagree.

Art.
Music.
Science.
A place in History

All make SOME people, in a sense immortal.

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by dan hunter

Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7

Does anyone have any thoughts?!

I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.

Disagree.

Art.
Music.
Science.
A place in History

All make SOME people, in a sense immortal.

But you are contradicting yourself, what about the physical part? When a person dies one part goes to the earth (the physical part) and the other part, I do not know what you want to call it, goes to memory.

Originally Posted by Stargate

But you are contradicting yourself, what about the physical part? When a person dies one part goes to the earth (the physical part) and the other part, I do not know what you want to call it, goes to memory.

The "other part" IS memory. You're stored, as observed data, in the slowly decaying hard drives in the heads of people around you. Of course, nowadays most of us are stored on YouTube servers as well...

This is called the Alaya conciousness by some.

1. alaya consciousness
   !important]Web definitions
   
   • The fundamental consciousness of all sentient beings. As defined by the Yogacara School, Alaya means the "storehouse", implying that this consciousness contains and preserves all past memories and potential psychic energy within its fold; it is the reservoir of all ideas, memories and desires ...
     Buddhism Glossary

That's well outside the realm of science.

That it has taken this long for this subject to reach this point surprises me..
~ I am not tolerant of the discussion venturing into the realm of religious belief. No part of the mind survives death. No record of 'self' remains. Survival of the memory of some person is not guaranteed. Tokens of our existence are indicators of a life lost. Yes.

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

That's well outside the realm of science.

As is the entire topic. Much closer to the realm of philosophy. But I don't think philosophy and science to at all be mutually exclusive. What would be the purpose or meaning of science, without trying to understand the mind and why it wants to do and understand science? I will see if I canot find something in science to corroborate my idea that the mind actually influences subatomic particles.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

I will see if I canot find something in science to corroborate my idea that the mind actually influences subatomic particles.

Ah, doing not-science again.
How did you get that idea?
You don't come up with an idea and then see if there's support, you look at the evidence and note what it tells you.
There isn't any corroboration. (Unless you go to woo sites and accept their cherry-picked - or outright lying - claims).

This will not collaborate my idea, but I do find it interesting... What Happens Inside the Large Hadron Collider? - YouTube

Ok, this may be of help. Wheeler's delayed choice experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We could also add Bell's theorem, and Schroeder's cat experiment to the list. I couldn't locate the quote online but it is said that Einstein also said that the outcome of any experiment it going to depend on what the experimenters are looking for.

I think he also accepted Bell's theorem which is that quantum entangled particles are not limited by the speed of light or by distance, which he seems to have acknowledged as "spooky actions at a distance"

Originally Posted by Mayflow

Ok, this may be of help. Wheeler's delayed choice experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With regard to what?

We could also add Bell's theorem, and Schroeder's cat experiment to the list.

Why?

I couldn't locate the quote online but it is said that Einstein also said that the outcome of any experiment it going to depend on what the experimenters are looking for.

Yeah.
And you seem to have taken the woo interpretation instead of the scientific one ¹.

You have previously claimed that the delayed choice experiment indicates that "the mind actually influences subatomic particles" and so far have failed to show how.

1 If there's a cow in a field and I give you a tape measure, what can you tell me about that cow as a result of using the tape measure only?

Originally Posted by Mayflow

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

That's well outside the realm of science.

As is the entire topic.

I don't know. I think death has important scientific significance. I wouldn't use the word "meaning", but there is a cycle which must be perpetuated and death is an integral part of that cycle. If a child were to ask, "Why do we die?" I wouldn't offer them some philosophical, meandering thought about the spirituality of it all. I would tell them that we die so generations after us can live. The stuff which makes us up will, eventually, make up another organism. And, some day, that which used to be us may travel across the universe and form a new planet or star. It's sort of poetic, for science.

@ Quacky,

Probably overall height, length, max and min and average circumference of the overall cow and of various things like head belly, hooves and stuff. Maybe more importantly to me, how patient the cow may be. I don't see how it fits the topic but I will indulge as I grew up on a farm, so am pretty confident the cow will be comfy with me doing all that without any apparent reason to. They may not know of double split experiments and and theories of relativity and if you were a smarter duck you could quack about how there is a conflict between certain things in my links and special relativity and used an actual intelligent reply, but cows are pretty tolerant in general.

As far as cows go, I see something about how the mind affects other living creatures too. My sis was afraid of Bulls as we grew up. Seriously, they would chase her. I liked the Bulls, and they were fine and comfy with me. Luckily I was not a cow being measured with a tape measure when around the Bulls. So, get the points Duck? I know how to deal with Bull.