Notices
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 139
Like Tree96Likes

Thread: The "meaning" of death.

  1. #1 The "meaning" of death. 
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,274
    If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.

    Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.

    If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

    Thus, death itself is not innately "evil" or "wrong", it's merely returning a loan - the life the Universe has temporarily granted you for the duration of your existence.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    305
    You're making the Universe anthropomorphic, the universe doesn't 'give' anyone anything.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Leaving out religious ideas; death is an intricate part of life in the sense that death is indispensable as one of the reasons you get to live in the first place. As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself. So in that sense, you don't get granted anything by the universe, rather you are one stage, one aspect of the universe itself.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Masters Degree LuciDreaming's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    660
    Since we are all made from stardust as Carl Sagan and Neil DeGrasse Tyson point out - in my opinion we are specific configurations of matter in the universe that gets configured into something else once this particular configuration has reached its end. To misquote Joseph Barker - Its chemistry all the way down.....
    "And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh" Nietzsche.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,274
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself.
    Delenn from Babylon 5?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    As a famous person once said, human life is a way for the universe to observe itself.
    Delenn from Babylon 5?
    Haha, think he stole it from someone else.

    Edit: Carl Sagan: “We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”
    LuciDreaming and umbradiago like this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dogbox in front of Dywyddyr's house.
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivium View Post
    You're making the Universe anthropomorphic, the universe doesn't 'give' anyone anything.
    Anthropomorphizing is not necessary to give. We acquired life, acquiring necessitates that something be either (A) Taken (B) Received. It was received, a gift without a conscious giver and/or sentiment is still a gift.
    precious siraj likes this.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    52 degrees North
    Posts
    159
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    LuciDreaming likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Live your time here to the fullest.

    Laugh
    Love
    experience sorrow and joy

    we have a one way ticket people

    TRY to not have regrets
    umbradiago likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    A star is dead.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    A star is dead.
    SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

    AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

    sobbing
    umbradiago likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    A star is dead.
    SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

    AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

    sobbing
    You shine with a different kind of light though.
    RedPanda, babe, umbradiago and 1 others like this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    A star is dead.
    SOBBING!!! KALSTER I AM A STAR!! Are you telling me I am DEAD?

    AND I didn't even KNOW IT!

    sobbing
    You shine with a different kind of light though.
    chuckle...thanks darling.... I am laughing
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.
    Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.
    If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.
    But the Universe is NOTHING!
    What our senses pick up is a model of reality. The Universe is composed only of matter and force particles - none of which have ever been seen directly. We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.
    It leaves us to ask the ultimate question as to why there is something rather nothing. Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
    For me everything points to the so called Multiverse. The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.
    If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.
    I think that's a common notion among people. It's just a different version of "there must be more than this".

    No. There doesn't have to be more. There's already more than any one person can fully comprehend.

    Take the time, make the effort, to really see (or perceive some way or another) what there is in the world you're lucky enough to be in has to offer. And luck, pure chance, is one really big aspect of your life - whether you made it into the world at all and at this particular moment in time and that you've made it this far.
    babe likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
    Um, because if there truly was nothing we wouldn't be thinking at all?

    For me everything points to the so called Multiverse.
    How so?

    The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.
    Wild guess...

    If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.
    I find it something, but not spooky.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.
    Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.
    If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.
    But the Universe is NOTHING!
    What our senses pick up is a model of reality. The Universe is composed only of matter and force particles - none of which have ever been seen directly. We can see and feel the forces but we do not experience the true nature of reality.
    It leaves us to ask the ultimate question as to why there is something rather nothing. Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
    For me everything points to the so called Multiverse. The Universe is constantly replicating (like genes and memes) and forming new copies of itself. This means that the buildings, the clouds, the flowers and the people are just one copy of an infinite set. The parallel worlds are all around and every person is the set of copies. In other words there is more than one YOU, and when that particular copy dies there will still be copies elsewhere.
    If you don't find that spooky then I think you miss the point.
    EVERY GIVE BIRTH?

    That is REALITY!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Better to ask, why do we think there is NOT NOTHING?
    Um, because if there truly was nothing we wouldn't be thinking at all?
    What makes you think that it is you only that is thinking, and your thoughts are not the average of a myriad of copies of you?
    Compress the matter and force particles in your body and you will be reduced to less than a pinhead. Compress the whole Universe and it will reduce to about the size of the Earth. At about 90 billion light years across it means that you and the Universe are effectively nothing. Try finding a body the size of Earth in that immensity of space. There is plenty of space in the Universe for more than just itself.
    Then to ask what exactly is life? The best answer we have is that life is based on replicators, to include genes, memes and even computer viruses. Death is not the extinction of a colony of cells and thought processes but the extinction of replicators. If replication is made in the Multiverse, as should be the case, then death would need redefining.
    Stargate likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    What makes you think that it is you only that is thinking
    Could you highlight the portion where I indicated that it was just me thinking?

    Compress the matter and force particles in your body and you will be reduced to less than a pinhead. Compress the whole Universe and it will reduce to about the size of the Earth. At about 90 billion light years across it means that you and the Universe are effectively nothing. Try finding a body the size of Earth in that immensity of space.
    So what?

    There is plenty of space in the Universe for more than just itself.
    Huh?


    Then to ask what exactly is life? The best answer we have is that life is based on replicators, to include genes, memes and even computer viruses. Death is not the extinction of a colony of cells and thought processes but the extinction of replicators. If replication is made in the Multiverse, as should be the case, then death would need redefining.
    What?

    I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
    Can nothing think?
    Cogito ergo sum.

    The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Live your time here to the fullest.

    Laugh
    Love
    experience sorrow and joy

    we have a one way ticket people

    TRY to not have regrets
    Babe I think we have a round-trip ticket, we can exchange it for a one way ticket though. As you say enjoy it now as intensely as you can.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Why does life or death need to have meaning?
    Maybe the questions should not be about the meaning of life or death but about your meaning in your life and death instead.
    I think life only has the meaning the person living it gives to it and that death is a part of that life.
    So if the life was meaningful then the death should be meaningful too, and if the life was meaningless the death would be meaningless.
    LuciDreaming and Stargate like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Why does life or death need to have meaning?
    Maybe the questions should not be about the meaning of life or death but about your meaning in your life and death instead.
    I think life only has the meaning the person living it gives to it and that death is a part of that life.
    So if the life was meaningful then the death should be meaningful too, and if the life was meaningless the death would be meaningless.
    Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivium View Post
    Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.
    That is true only if they are relying on others besides themselves to supply their meaning.
    It seems to me that leaving the meaning of your life for somebody else to decide is a terribly dangerous thing to do
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivium View Post
    Because if something lacks meaning it becomes a pointless (and for some bloody horrible) exercise.
    That is true only if they are relying on others besides themselves to supply their meaning.
    It seems to me that leaving the meaning of your life for somebody else to decide is a terribly dangerous thing to do
    Yes. We need to provide our OWN meaning to our personal time here.

    It is what we make of it, and what we leave behind in any even minute way. IMHO
    Stargate likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    If you consider the state of being of an individual before they're born - that person does not exist. They've not been granted anything by the Universe, and they've not had anything taken away by the Universe.

    Now, consider the state of being of an individual after they die - again, that person does not exist (anymore). While they've not been granted anything by the Universe, one could say that they've had "everything" taken away from them by the Universe. Now, one might say that that's a rather selfish way to look at things.

    If we consider "death" to not be a situation there the Universe takes away from you, but rather than life itself is merely "on loan" to you, and that when you die you simply return what you borrowed.

    Thus, death itself is not innately "evil" or "wrong", it's merely returning a loan - the life the Universe has temporarily granted you for the duration of your existence.
    Death is normal, and not evil. It's simply how life on Earth is, and no natural phenomenon has been proven to be eternal.

    Who says though that the Universe is a sapient entity?
    dan hunter likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
    Can nothing think?
    Cogito ergo sum.

    The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.
    If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like. We can't. Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum. If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking. Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
    Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like.
    Er, who said anything about control?

    Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum.
    I don't think, therefore I am? I can see that it applies to some people.

    If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking.
    Nope.

    Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
    Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.
    So what?

    You're missing the point: SOMETHING (regardless of what) is doing the thinking. Therefore there is not nothing.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Key West, Florida, Earth
    Posts
    4,789
    What meaning does death have? We know that many peoples lives do have meaning and they enjoy themselves through life as best they can.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    84
    one day each and everyone of us will find the meaning of death, when we are lying on our death bed and thinking of our lives.

    we only realize things to late
    Stargate likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    babe and Stargate like this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    zinjanthropos and dan hunter like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

    Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

    When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

    Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

    When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Well isn't that as it should be?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Well isn't that as it should be?
    No idea, like the complexity
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

    Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

    When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    I have no idea what I am supposed to say to that, I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat. I am doing my thing one day at a time, and enjoying talking to people like you, that's it. I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat.
    Too difficult, you normally pull your answers out of the other end of your anatomy. Viz.
    I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.
    Crap.
    umbradiago likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,507
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I'll try again: if there actually is nothing then not only how are we thinking but what is thinking?
    Can nothing think?
    Cogito ergo sum.

    The fact that we DO think is a pretty good indicator that whatever is thinking exists: hence not nothing.
    If we are in control of our thoughts then we should be able to turn them off at will and blank the mind for as long as we like. We can't. Really a case of Non Cogito Ergo Sum. If we could we would then be certain that it is only us doing the thinking. Dreams are also produced which we cannot control. Some people put it all down to memes, but this is not a total answer as we should still be able to shut off the thought current. Mozart was writing concertos while still an infant, before others could even read.
    Carl Jung was a champion of this idea.
    I don't think, therefore I am? I can see that it applies to some people.

    If I did not know any better, it would seem as if you were gossiping about me.
    Dywyddyr and babe like this.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    As kalster said life is just a part of the Universe (CREATION) My advice would be, not to waste it. Enjoy it. And as you cannot die as you are just star stuff anyway. ATOMS and ENERGY
    A star is dead.
    I hope they pick Judy Garland for the role. She'll STiLL knock 'em in the aisles !
    babe likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    645
    Hey, magic is magic, Duckman. Just don't pull flowers out of that place. It would be self-defeating. AFLACK ! (Obscure reference to American advertising. Do what I do, pay no attention)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I have not reached that place where I can pull those kind of answers out of my hat.
    Too difficult, you normally pull your answers out of the other end of your anatomy. Viz.
    I am the BB and the BB is me, life and death means the same to me.
    Crap.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,274
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

    Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

    When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    [shameless self-promotion]

    That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

    [/shameless self-promotion]
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.

    Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?

    When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    [shameless self-promotion]

    That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

    [/shameless self-promotion]
    Its really easy when you want to do it. Make up anything in life and it begins to live and take on structure, the things is, it all begins with a thought, so if it did not exist before you can bring it into being. You could call that a BB if you like it would explain some thing about your view of the BB.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    [shameless self-promotion]

    That's an idea similar to another philosophical-ish thread I posted a while back where I speculated that every living entity in the Universe was like a reincarnation of the same "person" (for lack of a better word) even when you have billions of lives living simultaneously, we're all just parallel pre/re/incarnations of the same being. Everybody is the same person.

    [/shameless self-promotion]
    Sorry if I've stolen your thunder, wasn't intentional. All I was saying is that life was part and parcel of the BB. Perhaps the greatest of all spectacles did not spawn life, life came along with it. Ever present, just not always with form. Life needs a universe of matter and physical laws to manifest itself. I'm not going any further for now, the risk of sounding totally weird or mentally disturbed is a stigma attached to such ramblings and is something I find not too palatable at the moment.
    Stargate likes this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Well isn't that as it should be?
    No idea, like the complexity
    And I the simplicity *S*...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Well isn't that as it should be?
    No idea, like the complexity
    And I the simplicity *S*...
    oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Painter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Death means never having to say you're sorry.
    You are only saying that because you are alive.
    For what I'm about to say, don't think for one minute that I believe it to be true, just throwing it out there.Did the BB give birth to life or is life always going to be a component of what emerged from that event? I think we can say with confidence that life was part of the deal. If life is an innate attribute of the BB then does it ever die? Even if the universe could no longer sustain life, are the ingredients still in the cupboard? Is life just a phase in the construction of a universe or just destined to occupy a specific time slot in history?When I die, does life too? If you think of life as an all encompassing entity then I am merely a part of some large organism. Perhaps the only true creature in the universe, with tentacles that stretch out across the boundless limits of space. We think of ourselves and other creatures we are familiar with as separate life forms but what if we are all part of just one single living thing? So if I die does it really mean anything? Are we any different than dead skin that's shed from the body?
    Dang!!! You mean we are all little octopuses?
    You make it sound simple and not complex at all
    Well isn't that as it should be?
    No idea, like the complexity
    And I the simplicity *S*...
    oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P
    *smack*

    Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    And I the simplicity *S*...
    oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P[/QUOTE]

    *smack*

    Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!![/QUOTE]

    Best I can do right now Babe....since the meaning of death is at stake here ....... Your Epitaph

    Here lies the body of a theatre whore
    Sold herself to the Hollywood lure
    Not for money, drugs or sex
    Just a simple role, not too complex

    edit: where I live whore rhymes with poor but in case it rhymes with pore where you live. then substitute lore for lure. Works either way
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; March 29th, 2014 at 01:13 PM.
    Stargate likes this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    And I the simplicity *S*...
    oh, alright mate , if we make it to simple, everyone will think science is easy, they need to understand the vast complexity of something, in my opinion of course :P
    *smack*

    Chuckling....you have to have the simplicity for those, such as I who are not scientist....just lowly theatre whores!![/QUOTE]

    Best I can do right now Babe....since the meaning of death is at stake here ....... Your Epitaph



    Here lies the body of a theatre whore
    Sold herself to the Hollywood lure
    Not for money, drugs or sex
    Just a simple role, not too complex

    edit: where I live whore rhymes with poor but in case it rhymes with pore where you live. then substitute lore for lure. Works either way[/QUOTE]

    Laughing ...this is more like it

    Here lies the dust of a theatre whore
    She left Hollywood and slammed the movie door
    Her heart was in laughter and music and more
    Thus there she remains, a poor theatre whore.
    Last edited by babe; March 31st, 2014 at 12:58 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    On a more serious note.....after centuries of observation on a global scale, death has been linked directly to living. It has been determined that death is more likely to occur after something living dies. Scientists at the Dusseldorf University for Mortal Beings are satisfied that death means life has ended. "There is a correlation that exists between life and death, in that life must precede death in order for the latter to take place". This according to Professor Dee Mize, the leader of Project Dark Angel.
    babe likes this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    On a more serious note.....after centuries of observation on a global scale, death has been linked directly to living. It has been determined that death is more likely to occur after something living dies. Scientists at the Dusseldorf University for Mortal Beings are satisfied that death means life has ended. "There is a correlation that exists between life and death, in that life must precede death in order for the latter to take place". This according to Professor Dee Mize, the leader of Project Dark Angel.
    Zin, I think there is also the angle that life cannot be experienced without death, much the same as light without dark. If we have no experience of death while we live, how could we die? When I look at it from that angle, there can only be change. I strongly think it is a matter of how we want to see things. I encompass I, and all my I's, I query things as I perceive them to be, the answers I get from the questions I ask, I accept, until they change.
    astromark and ByAccident13_7 like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #52  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    ~ I find myself wanting to add to this ponderous subject with my own twisted logic. To have a meaning to death there needs to be a 'alive' state. Not just not alive but dead requires that there was a life to end. Death is not the absence of life, but the end of one. I will add that as life does not seem to require a meaning but is a opportunity to be not dead.. Interesting. That to want to define death I can only say that at the termination of a life we have a death. Only by the process of death can we have a dead what was previously alive.
    babe, Stargate and dan hunter like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #53  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    38
    Good old Mr. Hawking.

    And apparently Carl Sagan! I also heard Stephen Hawking say: "We are the universe contemplating itself" in one of this documentaries.

    To add to what some people are saying, I have read over at least 90% of these, and if my memory serves me correctly I am seeing that most of us seem to be edging toward the notion that life is of extreme importance, and death is of little importance; however, sprinkled throughout this discussion is a light-hearted discomfort with the possibility that it is true. By that, I mean to say that people seem to be unsettled by the fact that death may not be as important as some have learned to believe.

    Whatever someone believes, whether it's in an afterlife or no afterlife, our bodies came from the earth and back to the earth they will go. I suppose that Zin is thinking of the "big-picture" and not just the Big Bang.
    Last edited by ByAccident13_7; April 5th, 2014 at 02:28 PM.
    Stargate likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #54  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #55  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think I have seen of death.
    Some one obviously never had a family pet...
    babe likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #56  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    My first best friend was a dog. Long gone physically but not in memory. I am not the maudlin sort. Sure of course the physical born bodies will return to the stardust they were bore from, but I don't think of that as death.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #57  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    but I don't think of that as death.
    Then you should get hold of, and read, a dictionary.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #58  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.
    I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #59  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Reading a dictionary? Really? OK, let me talk it over with woofy the stardust dog. According to woofy, human ducks are ok, and not as grumpy as say sometimes sound. On Earth woofy was a pretty smart dog, but according to woofy, smart stardust is less of a constrained speaking place. Dogs, huh?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #60  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Reading a dictionary? Really?
    Yes.
    Because you appear to be using a different definition of the word "death" than everyone else in this thread.
    If you're going to use your own idiosyncratic definition then it's up to you to make sure we know what you mean.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #61  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.
    I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.
    Yeah, I understand that viewpoint. Dawkin's selfish genes and all that is part of that viewpoint. Individuals can die but life goes on without them, etc.Most people are far more self centered than that and as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Last edited by dan hunter; April 5th, 2014 at 06:23 PM.
    astromark and babe like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #62  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
    Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #63  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    The termination of a life. Death and the dieing.. we can be strong and just move on, mentally. You have brought many things to me and this has drawn me to remember.. ~ I have been witness to the deaths of too many.. sat with and talked it through.. " Hold my hand I am scared.." It should not be cast aside as easy or light, and is always a very sad moment.. but, that we must climb out of the grief and continue for our own mental stability and that we never forget. What has been seen can not be unseen. Helping where you can.. We all have stories to tell. You do not need to die to understand what death is. Some experience of it is enough. I use this simerly; When the flame of life is extinguished the memory of it remains strong. The lifeless body remains as a tomb until consumed by the Earth it rose out of. It's a disquieting subject to experience. Talk with a undertaker regarding the dignity offered.. The meaning of death is a personal issue we all must deal with at some time.. If you can avoid it, do so..
    babe likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #64  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,274
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
    Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.
    He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.
    Dywyddyr and babe like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #65  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
    Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.
    He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.
    A PEKING DUCK AT THAT!!! *laughing*
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #66  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Or even the medical or generally accepted - dictionary definition - meaning of the word.
    Regardless of whatever the f*ck happens to the atoms of my body when I kick the bucket I die. I cease to exist.
    He's not pining for the Fjords, he's pushing up daisies. He's an ex-Duck.
    The duck will be daisies someday? Daisies may be easier to talk with. Ain't evolution grand?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #67  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    I subscribe to the viewpoint that we all continue on in some nature even after we die. However, the reconfiguration and recycling of the elements which make us up does not indicate immortality. It just demonstrates that you are a small piece in an ever-changing system. Simply because the carbon in my body will go on to be something else does not mean that I will go on to be something else. I will be dead.
    Cogito Ergo Sum likes this.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #68  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I subscribe to the viewpoint that we all continue on in some nature even after we die. However, the reconfiguration and recycling of the elements which make us up does not indicate immortality. It just demonstrates that you are a small piece in an ever-changing system. Simply because the carbon in my body will go on to be something else does not mean that I will go on to be something else. I will be dead.
    I don't think it is all that cut and dried. The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #69  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think it is all that cut and dried.
    And you're wrong.

    The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.
    Regardless, they won't be Flick.

    Daisies may be easier to talk with.
    I imagine you'd be quite happy to find intellectual equals...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #70  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #71  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think it is all that cut and dried. The you that has died may have made a difference in the world that still exists and maybe always will. Your contributions to the world are not to be overlooked.
    You're grossly overestimating my impact on the world.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #72  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?
    Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
    All of which put him in a different category from you.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #73  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I best enjoy Flick while is here then! He does has something about him to enjoy. right?
    Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
    All of which put him in a different category from you.
    Maybe, but I still like him.
    dan hunter likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #74  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    3,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    You're grossly overestimating my impact on the world.
    Well he's coherent, capable of making reasoned arguments and has my respect.
    All of which put him in a different category from you.
    Maybe Flick's genetic matter will be naturally selected so that in the future, reason dominates the world
    babe likes this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #75  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    38
    I mean, honestly, in a world of around 7 1/2 billion people, the death of one person may be tragic to those locally experiencing the death of that person; but if we zoom out and imagine every human being to be a part of just one big organism as Zin was saying - it's really like a skin cell dying. The organism to whom that skin cell belongs will remain, humans will remain, life in general will remain. In fact, the death and shedding of skin cells is a normal, healthy process. So, to liken a human death to that a skin cell's death, one could say it's a normal, healthy process not for the individual, but the greater whole.

    One's "impact" on the world (as in, one's influence on those around him) I suppose then is dependent strictly upon how much in love with themselves one really is; or how in love with someone the surrounding people are; or how in love someone is with those around them; or possibly some balanced combination of these.

    I'm sure if the universe was a sentient being, then it probably wouldn't even notice a human dying, just like we wouldn't even notice a skin cell dying. All we would notice are the flakes of skin shedding, and each flake we see represents hundreds of thousands of dead cells. So, if the human race suddenly became non-existent, we would simply be flakes of skin falling off the universe.

    Death is meaningless. Life is the most important thing to consider. We are alive, and therefore contribute to life; we die, and therefore contribute to life.

    Further, escaping the cycle of life and death (Samsara, as it is known in Buddhist philosophy) isn't talking about a literal cycle of death and reincarnation (that is, if you were to consider that there is no empirical evidence for reincarnation or any afterlife, and therefore approached Buddhist or any religious text with the presupposition that they are allegorical by nature, as written work requiring some tough literary analysis). I argue that Samsara - the cycle of life and death - is in reality the cycles of interpersonal change, personal change, cultural change, etc; as well as the attachment humans have with life and death, specifically our fear of death and our desire for longer or different lives, or the same lives anew.

    Enlightenment wouldn't then be some magical release from a world in which people die and are reincarnated as goats but somehow have no memory of their former lives all based on their actions in a previous LIFE, as the result of meditation and thought of words like "Ohm" for a long time; it is the extreme acceptance of reality as it is presented before us in the current moment, and it is the broadening of our personal perspective and the inexhaustible drive to understand the nature of this reality, that ultimately extinguishes our fears and desires and thus releases us from this "cycle of life and death" to which humans have culturally subscribed.

    (For the record, I don't consider myself a Buddhist; I just like to read a lot and I'm using familiar concepts to describe what I'm thinking).

    - That is what I think the meaning of death really is... or isn't. Does anyone have any thoughts?!
    Last edited by ByAccident13_7; April 6th, 2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Final thoughts.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #76  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Quote Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7 View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts?!
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #77  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    38
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children
    I would agree. I also think that calling it "immortality" in that respect is a bit misleading, because even generational story-telling in families will have it's limits in recent history - it's oldest stories - and nothing more than that (lost because they've been forgotten or overshadowed by some other story); and "immortality" would not be achieved genetically because it is not entirely you that is being passed genetically, rather fragments of genetic material that you shared from a previous generation and merge with another family of a different genetic makeup to make up a child.

    Hmmm.... Many religious texts do discuss the importance of lineage and merging families. Could there possibly be a connection?
    dan hunter likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #78  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.
    we are all important in our own ways but after 4 generations or so we will be forgotten unless we contribute to human civilization in larger than life manner. people like Einstein Maxwell Newton (scientists) Gandhi Buddha Jesus Christ. these people will be remembered as long as there is human civilization. (unless there is a break due to a world catastrophe) they contributed in a manner that we can not. i do not believe the rest of us are less important but we will not be remembered too long because our contributions although important are not large enough. look at famous silent film actors. even they are now almost forgotten. but no one should feel inferior to those i mentioned. we are all important for the now. as long as you try hard to better world you have done your important part.

    sorry. it is hard to express thoughts like these.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  80. #79  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Baby, take off your coat, real slow, leave your hat on, there is some thinking to do. What say you, baby?


    Ok, here is what I say. Samsara is metaphorical for a cycle of discontent. To me, and yeah, I dig Buddhism too, it isn't about escaping from human life form, it is about escaping from cycles of thinking that cause you recycling unhappiness. <That place SUCKS! :-)
    ByAccident13_7 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #80  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.
    we are all important in our own ways but after 4 generations or so we will be forgotten unless we contribute to human civilization in larger than life manner. people like Einstein Maxwell Newton (scientists) Gandhi Buddha Jesus Christ. these people will be remembered as long as there is human civilization. (unless there is a break due to a world catastrophe) they contributed in a manner that we can not. i do not believe the rest of us are less important but we will not be remembered too long because our contributions although important are not large enough. look at famous silent film actors. even they are now almost forgotten. but no one should feel inferior to those i mentioned. we are all important for the now. as long as you try hard to better world you have done your important part.

    sorry. it is hard to express thoughts like these.
    I totally agree with you.

    Ok, here is what I say. Samsara is metaphorical for a cycle of discontent. To me, and yeah, I dig Buddhism too, it isn't about escaping from human life form, it is about escaping from cycles of thinking that cause you recycling unhappiness


    And you!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #81  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    ~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
    Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?
    ByAccident13_7 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #82  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
    Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?
    What you have just said reminds me of a story about the Buddha (and I believe this to be of one of the most significant teachings to consider). I read it in an anthology edited by Donald S. Lopez Jr., and if my memory serves me correctly it was a time when the Buddha was old aged and near dying. One of his disciples said the Buddha, "You spent 45 years of your life teaching the Dhamma, after choosing to stay in Samsara. Before you came here, we didn't have your teachings. Now we do because you are here, but you're about to leave us. What will happen to your teachings when you are gone?" The Buddha replied something to the effect of, "I spent 45 years teaching the Dhamma, the middle way, The Eightfold Path as I have come to learn it. When you attain enlightenment then you will spend your days teaching the Dhamma as you have come to learn it. But, remember that in 45 years time [after the Buddha's death] I will not have said a word."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #83  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I don't think I have seen of death. I see new things born, ants, birds, people, stars, ideas, always those new ideas... A tomato plant may appear to die, but new tomatoes grow.
    I think what we see is change. We see death as we live, as it seems life and death together is the big picture.
    Yeah, I understand that viewpoint. Dawkin's selfish genes and all that is part of that viewpoint. Individuals can die but life goes on without them, etc.Most people are far more self centered than that and as Duck says they take the meaning of death as in the strictly personal and private sense of the word.
    Dan, to some extent I do think it is personal and private, you do not think of everyone dying with you, or maybe some do.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #84  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ That we live on only as the memories of those who knew of us. Unless you make a monumental difference or leave a contribution, memorable.. Sort of like a memorial epic like the story of 'NOAH' ( I must stop watching 'Discovery channel' ) .. Having just viewed the Joanna Lumley story of the Ark.. and that it might just be a local story from India as old as that society is.. Yes it could be said he left a legacy that has grown some. That we are fools to accept historic record as truths, when the real deal is a simple story of survival .. For most of us are just going through the motions of existence.. Immortality is relative. Having a larger family is a first step. Documentations and memorials are only as firm as the ground they are on.
    Live life to the fullest. Strive to enjoy every day you live because once that life expires and your death is a eventuality you are not going to avoid. Having a great deal more birthdays to celebrate is a worthy goal.. Your death is not of greater significance to anyone but you. For how long after your death will you be thought of. ?
    You are very realistic, I am not sure how you manage to stay that way. You are not religious I am sure.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #85  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,507
    This thread needs appropriate music:
    Sparks - Mattia Cupelli - YouTube

    Anyhow, I subscribe to the view posted by member Flick Montana (post #67).
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #86  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post

    You are very realistic, I am not sure how you manage to stay that way. You are not religious I am sure.
    ~ Yes, 100% Atheist but yet aware of other views than mine.
    Stargate and ByAccident13_7 like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #87  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7 View Post
    I mean, honestly, in a world of around 7 1/2 billion people, the death of one person may be tragic to those locally experiencing the death of that person; but if we zoom out and imagine every human being to be a part of just one big organism as Zin was saying - it's really like a skin cell dying. The organism to whom that skin cell belongs will remain, humans will remain, life in general will remain. In fact, the death and shedding of skin cells is a normal, healthy process. So, to liken a human death to that a skin cell's death, one could say it's a normal, healthy process not for the individual, but the greater whole.

    One's "impact" on the world (as in, one's influence on those around him) I suppose then is dependent strictly upon how much in love with themselves one really is; or how in love with someone the surrounding people are; or how in love someone is with those around them; or possibly some balanced combination of these.

    I'm sure if the universe was a sentient being, then it probably wouldn't even notice a human dying, just like we wouldn't even notice a skin cell dying. All we would notice are the flakes of skin shedding, and each flake we see represents hundreds of thousands of dead cells. So, if the human race suddenly became non-existent, we would simply be flakes of skin falling off the universe.
    If you zoom out even further, then you can see Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" where Earth is supposed to be.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

    Everything is a matter of perspective. I'm sure my own life matters a lot more to me than it does to other people. Also old age scares me a lot more than death. When you die, you stop caring how crumby your life is.
    dan hunter and ByAccident13_7 like this.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  89. #88  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,445
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7 View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts?!
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.
    Disagree.

    Art.
    Music.
    Science.
    A place in History

    All make SOME people, in a sense immortal.
    Dywyddyr and Cogito Ergo Sum like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  90. #89  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ByAccident13_7 View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts?!
    I think the only claim to immortality a person can have is through their children.
    Disagree.

    Art.
    Music.
    Science.
    A place in History

    All make SOME people, in a sense immortal.
    But you are contradicting yourself, what about the physical part? When a person dies one part goes to the earth (the physical part) and the other part, I do not know what you want to call it, goes to memory.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  91. #90  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    But you are contradicting yourself, what about the physical part? When a person dies one part goes to the earth (the physical part) and the other part, I do not know what you want to call it, goes to memory.
    The "other part" IS memory. You're stored, as observed data, in the slowly decaying hard drives in the heads of people around you. Of course, nowadays most of us are stored on YouTube servers as well...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  92. #91  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    This is called the Alaya conciousness by some.
    1. alaya consciousness
      !important]Web definitions
      • The fundamental consciousness of all sentient beings. As defined by the Yogacara School, Alaya means the "storehouse", implying that this consciousness contains and preserves all past memories and potential psychic energy within its fold; it is the reservoir of all ideas, memories and desires ...
        Buddhism Glossary
    Reply With Quote  
     

  93. #92  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    That's well outside the realm of science.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  94. #93  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    That it has taken this long for this subject to reach this point surprises me..
    ~ I am not tolerant of the discussion venturing into the realm of religious belief. No part of the mind survives death. No record of 'self' remains. Survival of the memory of some person is not guaranteed. Tokens of our existence are indicators of a life lost. Yes.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  95. #94  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    That's well outside the realm of science.
    As is the entire topic. Much closer to the realm of philosophy. But I don't think philosophy and science to at all be mutually exclusive. What would be the purpose or meaning of science, without trying to understand the mind and why it wants to do and understand science? I will see if I canot find something in science to corroborate my idea that the mind actually influences subatomic particles.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  96. #95  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I will see if I canot find something in science to corroborate my idea that the mind actually influences subatomic particles.
    Ah, doing not-science again.
    How did you get that idea?
    You don't come up with an idea and then see if there's support, you look at the evidence and note what it tells you.
    There isn't any corroboration. (Unless you go to woo sites and accept their cherry-picked - or outright lying - claims).
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  97. #96  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    This will not collaborate my idea, but I do find it interesting... What Happens Inside the Large Hadron Collider? - YouTube
    Reply With Quote  
     

  98. #97  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    Ok, this may be of help. Wheeler's delayed choice experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    We could also add Bell's theorem, and Schroeder's cat experiment to the list. I couldn't locate the quote online but it is said that Einstein also said that the outcome of any experiment it going to depend on what the experimenters are looking for.

    I think he also accepted Bell's theorem which is that quantum entangled particles are not limited by the speed of light or by distance, which he seems to have acknowledged as "spooky actions at a distance"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  99. #98  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    With regard to what?

    We could also add Bell's theorem, and Schroeder's cat experiment to the list.
    Why?

    I couldn't locate the quote online but it is said that Einstein also said that the outcome of any experiment it going to depend on what the experimenters are looking for.
    Yeah.
    And you seem to have taken the woo interpretation instead of the scientific one 1.

    You have previously claimed that the delayed choice experiment indicates that "the mind actually influences subatomic particles" and so far have failed to show how.

    1 If there's a cow in a field and I give you a tape measure, what can you tell me about that cow as a result of using the tape measure only?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  100. #99  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    That's well outside the realm of science.
    As is the entire topic.
    I don't know. I think death has important scientific significance. I wouldn't use the word "meaning", but there is a cycle which must be perpetuated and death is an integral part of that cycle. If a child were to ask, "Why do we die?" I wouldn't offer them some philosophical, meandering thought about the spirituality of it all. I would tell them that we die so generations after us can live. The stuff which makes us up will, eventually, make up another organism. And, some day, that which used to be us may travel across the universe and form a new planet or star. It's sort of poetic, for science.
    stander-j and astromark like this.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  101. #100  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,040
    @ Quacky,

    Probably overall height, length, max and min and average circumference of the overall cow and of various things like head belly, hooves and stuff. Maybe more importantly to me, how patient the cow may be. I don't see how it fits the topic but I will indulge as I grew up on a farm, so am pretty confident the cow will be comfy with me doing all that without any apparent reason to. They may not know of double split experiments and and theories of relativity and if you were a smarter duck you could quack about how there is a conflict between certain things in my links and special relativity and used an actual intelligent reply, but cows are pretty tolerant in general.

    As far as cows go, I see something about how the mind affects other living creatures too. My sis was afraid of Bulls as we grew up. Seriously, they would chase her. I liked the Bulls, and they were fine and comfy with me. Luckily I was not a cow being measured with a tape measure when around the Bulls. So, get the points Duck? I know how to deal with Bull.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 152
    Last Post: February 16th, 2014, 05:41 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: September 15th, 2012, 07:43 PM
  3. Death to "Death Panels"
    By Green Xenon in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 12th, 2012, 09:45 AM
  4. Replies: 26
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2012, 10:28 AM
  5. Kosher meat and "death hormones"
    By marcusclayman in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: September 9th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •