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Thread: Philosophical Smart Alecs

  1. #1 Philosophical Smart Alecs 
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    WOW!! I think that it is impossible for some people to grasp the idea of philosophy. I have been in a philosophy class for a few weeks now and this one guy is so... aargh. The professor asks the allmighty question: what came first, the chicken or the egg? And this guy says: Well originally we all came from a single cell organism. Then we became multicellular and needed a shell for protection so we became an egg. Then we hatched and became a chicken. So the egg came first.

    What!?!?!?! First of all he completely missed the point of the question and second he came up with the most uneducated answer in the world.

    This is just one example. This guy is soo anoying. There are a few others like him but most are smart enough to realize they probably don't understand what is really being asked.

    What do y'all think. Are some people just not born the be philosophers or at least think like them?


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    I would agree that not all are capable truely philisophical thought regardless of intellect or education.
    There will always be educated and uneducated fools who will detract from philisophical thought , whether by using misguided logic or narrow minded use of perseved truths.Why?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyfix
    truely philisophical thought
    Could you just define that for me?
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    If this person doesn't understand philosophy maybe thats why he's going to philosophy class's.
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    The problem is that he thinks he understands. Also, you can't have a philosphical argument with these people because of that same reason (they don't understand). It's like trying to argue with a child. No matter what you say they will ignore it and try to say what they said again.
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    perhaps some people just don't favour that way of looking at the world.
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    WOW!! I think that it is impossible for some people to grasp the idea of philosophy. I have been in a philosophy class for a few weeks now and this one guy is so... aargh. The professor asks the allmighty question: what came first, the chicken or the egg? And this guy says: Well originally we all came from a single cell organism. Then we became multicellular and needed a shell for protection so we became an egg. Then we hatched and became a chicken. So the egg came first.

    What!?!?!?! First of all he completely missed the point of the question and second he came up with the most uneducated answer in the world.
    The point is irrelevant. You ask a question and that is the answer and it shall not be phiosophical since such a answer aint worth anything.

    What do y'all think. Are some people just not born the be philosophers or at least think like them?
    Those biengs are born with a capability to analyse things the correct way. Philosophical people lack this ability and came with irrelevant answers to irrelevant questions and even to relevant questions.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    haha that's funny, because it seems to me that you, Zelos, are a philosopher. :wink:

    Honestly I wouldn't mind that much if he had came up with a good answer that showed he had some education in what he was talking about. The problem was that he didn't even know anything about evolution. He was just making stuff up. It just anoyed me I guess. He was wasting my class time.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    Forum Ph.D. Cat1981(England)'s Avatar
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    Just out of interest, how would you reply philosophically to the question "what came first the chicken or the egg" ?
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    I would find it likely that the dragon came first, and then it had a golden egg with a chicken inside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    haha that's funny, because it seems to me that you, Zelos, are a philosopher. :wink:

    Honestly I wouldn't mind that much if he had came up with a good answer that showed he had some education in what he was talking about. The problem was that he didn't even know anything about evolution. He was just making stuff up. It just anoyed me I guess. He was wasting my class time.
    I can be philosophical but to be honest i hate it since it gives no real value in certain questions.

    And if he make up stuff just out-smart him

    Just out of interest, how would you reply philosophically to the question "what came first the chicken or the egg" ?
    You are refering to me?
    Id obviusly say the egg since reptiles layed eggs before the chicken existed XD


    I would find it likely that the dragon came first, and then it had a golden egg with a chicken inside
    Hope that is a joke else im calling guys with white rocks to get you
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Since the question does not specify which species of Egg I nominate Zelos as having given the correct answer.
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    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Since the question does not specify which species of Egg I nominate Zelos as having given the correct answer.
    Bull. An egg is as much a human-devised category as a chicken is. There is no 'chicken'. What we recognise as the biological agents are essentially or fundamentally no different from cats as they are from another.
    It's all fluctuating energy. Heck, even if you believe in some order in the universe, to which I object, you would have to admit that evolution is movement, and that therefore no one generation is the same. The chicken we know today is different from the chicken two hundred years ago meaning that when the chicken came to exist is only quite recently, and so too the egg.. After all, when did the egg which we know today exist?

    The question is as sensible as asking where does a ring begin? Or, it is as sensible as speaking about addiction as being driven by rewards.. That is only part of a re-enforcing cycle. To view something outside of its context and to judge it as that separate entity - that is what that chicken question, methinks, is about.

    As for philosophy - I encounter people everyday at university, people who will end up with master degrees in psychology, who are utterly incapable of critical thought and devoid of sharp perception.
    The pre-Socratics give us Democritus and Heraclitus, the one laughed about the folly of the masses, the other wept.

    Which is more appropriate? I have been accused of being disrespectful, arrogant, narcissistic and I have laughed nor wept.

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    You've been in one of them brown cafe's again, haven't you!

    buying the old "skunk nederwiet"....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat1981(England)
    Just out of interest, how would you reply philosophically to the question "what came first the chicken or the egg" ?
    It depends completely on how you define your words. Is your defining property of the chicken egg "that which hatches into a chicken" or "that which is laid by a chicken"? Whichever definition you choose decides which came first, the chicken or the egg.
    That does of course depend on 1 creature being the initial "chicken" which as HomoUniversalis pointed out isn't really possible, but that kind of assumption is made in philosophy all the time.
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    Wheras in the real world [we know philosophers are failed engineers :wink: ] a chicken is a chicken and an egg is an egg, they mutually evolved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyfix
    truely philisophical thought
    Could you just define that for me?
    Well the way I understand it truely philisophial thought is the ability to take a question such as " chicken or egg " and then consider all possible reasonings without bias then apply logic and reason to provide clarity to to a question that seems to have no clear answer.
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    As I see it the point of the whole chicken and egg question is not to attain a difinitive answer but stimulate the mind in hope that some new possibilites may be drawn from new perspectives.

    The difinitive answer does not exist as there is no hard evidence of the first egg and whether or not a chicken produced or it produced a chicken.

    To ingore a point of view on such a question, even if it is lacking insite and knowlege, without consideration of its possibilities and merits only highlights the need for more philosphy classes.
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    No there's too much philosophy, not enough people getting their hands dirty with a spanner. It ends up with only a few people with practical skills, how many people in the western world today could survive being dumped in a forest in mid-winter?
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    To few
    Thats why i want to eliminte all the forests, all desersts, every terrain
    One global city stretching from one continent to another
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    ok if we're trading one jungle for another.

    how many people could survive being dumped in the global city run by Zelos with no money, no home, you can keep your clothes, no transport during mid winter?
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    hmmm, well i guess not many. Finally some human evolution that works
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  25. #24  
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    great, here i've gone and given him ideas.
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    Talking is silver
    Bieng silent is gold
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    No there's too much philosophy, not enough people getting their hands dirty with a spanner. It ends up with only a few people with practical skills, how many people in the western world today could survive being dumped in a forest in mid-winter?
    Interesting point of view, but you therewith deny the powerful influence philosophers have had on history. How world leaders have taken that view and used it..
    Hegel/Marx being an obvious example, but more recently, there is a definite moral relativism in European-American culture. - How will this be solved? How will we provide a lasting answer to provide a decay of our civilisation into barbarism? Is that something we want or not?

    The fact is, people are not living in a forest mid-winter today, evolution deals with the now, not the if. Indeed, in our civilisation other things than rudimentary survival skills are important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Interesting point of view, but you therewith deny the powerful influence philosophers have had on history. How world leaders have taken that view and used it..
    I agree. Great minds with great ideas have shaped our history in many ways. We stand on the shoulders of giants.

    Hegel/Marx being an obvious example, but more recently, there is a definite moral relativism in European-American culture. - How will this be solved? How will we provide a lasting answer to provide a decay of our civilisation into barbarism? Is that something we want or not?

    The fact is, people are not living in a forest mid-winter today, evolution deals with the now, not the if. Indeed, in our civilisation other things than rudimentary survival skills are important.

    Mr U
    Don't be so sure. "Alone in the Forest" was an extreme example but the basic challenge for one to confront a real life dangerous situation is, by no means, an obsolete way of life.

    Philosophy is a wonderful muse but practical problems need practical solutions.
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    I should like to know why the chicken crossed the road. Was it egged on by bystanders? Was it suffering shell shock? At the end of the day is the yolk on us?
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    the chicken crossed the road cause i were shooting at it
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I should like to know why the chicken crossed the road. Was it egged on by bystanders? Was it suffering shell shock? At the end of the day is the yolk on us?
    Maybe it was just winging it's way to keep abreast of things when something eggstrordinary apenned and it rhode it's way onto a traffic island where the lights were red.
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    "eggstrordinary" "egged on by bystanders" "shell shock" "yolk on us"

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Since the question does not specify which species of Egg I nominate Zelos as having given the correct answer.
    Bull. An egg is as much a human-devised category as a chicken is. There is no 'chicken'. What we recognise as the biological agents are essentially or fundamentally no different from cats as they are from another.
    It's all fluctuating energy. Heck, even if you believe in some order in the universe, to which I object, you would have to admit that evolution is movement, and that therefore no one generation is the same. The chicken we know today is different from the chicken two hundred years ago meaning that when the chicken came to exist is only quite recently, and so too the egg.. After all, when did the egg which we know today exist?

    The question is as sensible as asking where does a ring begin? Or, it is as sensible as speaking about addiction as being driven by rewards.. That is only part of a re-enforcing cycle. To view something outside of its context and to judge it as that separate entity - that is what that chicken question, methinks, is about.

    Mr U
    Excellent post.
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  34. #33  
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    Well I was gone a bit too long. Where should I start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat1981(England)
    Just out of interest, how would you reply philosophically to the question "what came first the chicken or the egg" ?
    It depends completely on how you define your words. Is your defining property of the chicken egg "that which hatches into a chicken" or "that which is laid by a chicken"? Whichever definition you choose decides which came first, the chicken or the egg.
    That does of course depend on 1 creature being the initial "chicken" which as HomoUniversalis pointed out isn't really possible, but that kind of assumption is made in philosophy all the time.
    This is one way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Wheras in the real world [we know philosophers are failed engineers Wink ] a chicken is a chicken and an egg is an egg, they mutually evolved.
    Now that makes more sense to me. Although it is not entirely philosophical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyfix
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyfix
    truely philisophical thought
    Could you just define that for me?
    Well the way I understand it truely philisophial thought is the ability to take a question such as " chicken or egg " and then consider all possible reasonings without bias then apply logic and reason to provide clarity to to a question that seems to have no clear answer.
    Perfect, I would add one thing: search for truth. All science is but branches of philosophy and all great scientists have been philosophers. We are on a search for truths. When things are understood and/or measured and then generally accepted by all (proof) it becomes a science. Although the goal of science and philosophy is the same, just different topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyfix
    As I see it the point of the whole chicken and egg question is not to attain a difinitive answer but stimulate the mind in hope that some new possibilites may be drawn from new perspectives.

    The difinitive answer does not exist as there is no hard evidence of the first egg and whether or not a chicken produced or it produced a chicken.

    To ingore a point of view on such a question, even if it is lacking insite and knowlege, without consideration of its possibilities and merits only highlights the need for more philosphy classes.
    YES!! These are the words I was searching for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    No there's too much philosophy, not enough people getting their hands dirty with a spanner. It ends up with only a few people with practical skills, how many people in the western world today could survive being dumped in a forest in mid-winter?
    I think that depends on the philosopher. I personally would love being dumbed in the forest in mid-winter. What would make it even better is if someone was dumbed with me and we could have a philosophical conversation over a hot cup of tea. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    Thats why i want to eliminte all the forests, all desersts, every terrain
    Haha, I think you missed the point on that one. So if there are no forests wouldn't we be low on air? or is that part of the plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I should like to know why the chicken crossed the road. Was it egged on by bystanders? Was it suffering shell shock? At the end of the day is the yolk on us?
    Wow, I can't stop laughing... no I'm serious, I can't!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Maybe it was just winging it's way to keep abreast of things when something eggstrordinary apenned and it rhode it's way onto a traffic island where the lights were red.
    O.K. I stopped laughing.

    Good stuff guys... (or girls if there are any :? )
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    Philosophy is only useful if you understand it. There are many people who follow easy and clearcut disciplines like math and science yet philosophy is just far beyond them because of its lack of structure and a single clear "socially acceptable" path. Ironic since these disciplines in reality are not about following the socially acceptable path either, but rather finding truth. So the people who hate philosophy so much are probably going to be pretty useless other than for making menial calculations in their field as well.

    True motivation is the limiting factor, and the more you understand philosophy yourself the more chance you have of getting through to these people. But to some degree you just have to realize that these people are willfully ignorant and will refuse to take the time to even understand what you are saying.
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