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Thread: denial of reality

  1. #1 denial of reality 
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    It seems that society denies a lot of the truth, I'm talking negative things like murders, rape, starving children, war, etc. Even if they don't flat out deny it it certainly seems like their ignoring the issue; Some subjects that don't enter the dinner table. Sort of a don't ask don't tell policy, sort of like when you were in your early teens and ask your parents about sex and they punish you or refuse to talk about the subject. I just don't really get why people have to deny these things and pretend like we live in a utopia where everyone is civilized and nothing goes wrong. Ever feel this way towards the way things work in our civilization? That you can't trust anything you hear? And that we're living in a wonderland full of illusions?


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  3. #2  
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    What planet do you live on? i'd love to know maybe i could join you, here the news is always plagued with bad things happening around the world, adverts to attack the mind with your too fat or someone dies every second from aids so please give 2 pounds a month. Newspapers with absurd stories, the internet with penis enlargement ad's everywhere.

    All these things make people live in fear, so where is this wonderland that you speak about? because i certainly do not see it.


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  4. #3  
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    So far as I know only sections of societies behave this way, religious groups are notorious, internationally there may be some playing down of this to prevent damage to the tourist trade. In fact the only truth there may be in it is in the adverts for holidays, nobody say's "Come to Miami for a great holiday but be careful not to stray a mile or so inland where you could be mugged or killed" - Not just the US of course, any country in the world, every country in the world. So maybe you should your TV from the travel channels to the news channels....
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    I guess the situation described is a bit extreme, but there are certainly countries where things like swearing and discussing drugs or porn in the media are taboo. And in some countries certain symbols are prohibited, like nazi symbols in Germany and Austria. Even pronouncing the name "Adolf Hitler" will get you a lot of angry looks there. But even this could be changing, soon a comedy about Hitler will come out and it probably wont be banned in Germany and Austria.

    But this certainly differs by country. Where I live we ofcourse have several taboos as well, but much more is allowed in the media. For example we have a program called "Spuiten en slikken" on public television, just after prime time, which roughly translates into 'injecting and swallowing' in english. The hosts of that program test all kinds of drugs on television (including hard drugs like heroin and xtc, even inhaling glue) and do sex experiments (like finding out whether a male blowjob feels better than a female one). And I'm ok with that. People are often just curious about these things, but don't feel the need to try it all out themselves once they've seen someone else do it on television.
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  6. #5  
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    Sounds like a quality program!

    downloading an episode now
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  7. #6  
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    Well I live in the suburbs and I don't know, nobody seems to take anything seriously it's like you try to talk about a serious subject and they just laugh it off. Maybe it's the people I'm surrounded with. Thanks though.
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  8. #7  
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    Ignorance is bliss.
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    Some stuff is prevented in order to maintain the power of reigning over the country,
    some other stuff is because it would cause chaos (and to be more scientific, higher enthropy) in society.
    It is just more secure for people, because it would maybe cause another civil war.
    I am.
    You can't deny it.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastermind
    Some stuff is prevented in order to maintain the power of reigning over the country,
    some other stuff is because it would cause chaos (and to be more scientific, higher enthropy) in society.
    It is just more secure for people, because it would maybe cause another civil war.
    Well two points. First: you use the term 'entropy' very freely here. What we call chaos (in society) doesn't have much to do with with the entropy concept from physics. Better to restrict it's usage to the context of the second law of thermodynamics.
    Second: I don't see the link between things like not talking about sex and preventing civil war. Could you elaborate on this?

    I think we shouldn't search too much behind this. People just want to protect their children against 'traumatic' experiences, thinking this is beneficial for their development. But it probably isn't, just creates people who spend the rest of their lives in a continuous culture shock when they're adjusting their world view to reality.
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  11. #10  
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    1.I meant "entropy" not seriously. I just thought...."Hey, why not?"
    But if it confuses you, then I'll avoid it. Sorry.
    But: Actually you can apply entropy as well to the society. Environmental pollution is an example of rising entropy.
    And we should try to keep the entropy down.

    In Germany, for example, it is forbidden to make a Hitler salutation or the swastika, because it offends people and there are people called Neo-Nazis, who cause troubles permanently.
    If they grow (and a permission of an official display of things Hitler-like would surely do so), then people who are not so smart would easily join that group.
    Also, we have people who agree with sex on TV and they who do not.
    And above all, there are many religious people who would be enraged, and there are, on the other side, Hippie-mentalities.
    If it escalates, then Boom.

    I mean it doesn't have to be that extreme, but who knows?

    Also, we know nothing but a tiny bit of the actual politics in the country we live in. Who knows what the war in Iraq is really about? Oil resources?
    One can only speculate.
    I am.
    You can't deny it.
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  12. #11  
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    Wow, that sounds like it could be one of the best shows ever, who comes up with the material? 8)

    I used to live in Japan where they place fugitive pictures in convienence stores describing the crime which is certainly not out of the public view, I'm pretty sure every Japanese citizen goes to a Lawsons or a Family Mart at least 3 times a day. It's also legal to piss and crap on the road in public.

    When I was living in the Philippines I actually saw a dead guy in a cage, just like on the TV shows, and this was near an actual city. We passed by while taking a side car, there were naked & starving kids around and everything. Its not that uncommon to see people hit by cars in public daylight because their are no patrol cars so people don't pay attention to traffic laws, even busses overtake other vehicles on two lane roads there.. Oh yeah, pissing and crapping on the road in public is legal here too..

    China is the same way, you can piss and crap on the road in public legally. I was in China for just under 2 years and was witness to some pretty gruesome suicides (jumping). People see that all the time, not to mention that in some provincial areas they still drowned newborn baby girls in front of everyone.

    I'm not sure but I suppose the reasoning for the defication and urination anywhere is because it is a wide social practice in all of these countries to get together and drink after a work day, which means alot of people are plastered, and small school children generally walk home unchaparoned (I'm talking kids 5 years old).


    Perhaps you will find the suburban America, although as sheltered and ignorant as everyone seems to be, is a nice place to live :P
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  13. #12  
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    Entropy is an interesting term to use when discussing order/chaos. Chaotic systems tend to have very little entropy once they reach equilibrium, because everything is following its own natural course.

    An example of a very high entropy system would be communist Russia. You just can't have tons and tons of rules, and leaders who rule with an iron fist without making things pretty inefficient.

    Leaders who lie also make things inefficient over time, because they get caught from time to time and gradually destroy the trust between them and their people.
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  14. #13 Re: denial of reality 
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyValentine
    It seems that society denies a lot of the truth, I'm talking negative things like murders, rape, starving children, war, etc. Even if they don't flat out deny it it certainly seems like their ignoring the issue; Some subjects that don't enter the dinner table. Sort of a don't ask don't tell policy, sort of like when you were in your early teens and ask your parents about sex and they punish you or refuse to talk about the subject. I just don't really get why people have to deny these things and pretend like we live in a utopia where everyone is civilized and nothing goes wrong. Ever feel this way towards the way things work in our civilization? That you can't trust anything you hear? And that we're living in a wonderland full of illusions?
    Humans are like that. If they don't want to deal with it they just deny its happening. I've been telling my friends about global warming for 15 years and until recently they just laughed at me. Now in Australia we're in a serious long term drought and water is scarce. Yet, a lot of us still pretend like nothing unusual is happening. Its a business as usual attitude. Deny, deny, deny.

    Regards
    Robert
    ( http://www.priority1design.com.au )
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  15. #14  
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    level 5 water restrictions, dams running out fast and plans for a recycled water infrastructure shining in our faces on the nightly news and we're ment to run around worrying ourselves to death about it are we.

    i notice alot how we're running out of just about everything these days, running out of water, running out of oil, running out of time, and yet i know that this is not the first time we've been having to put tighter and tighter restrictions on consumption of various resources. you're right about it not being buisness as usual these days but its not so different that we should stop what we're doing and start worrying.
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  16. #15 Re: denial of reality 
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    Quote Originally Posted by p1drobert
    Humans are like that. If they don't want to deal with it they just deny its happening. I've been telling my friends about global warming for 15 years and until recently they just laughed at me. Now in Australia we're in a serious long term drought and water is scarce. Yet, a lot of us still pretend like nothing unusual is happening. Its a business as usual attitude. Deny, deny, deny.

    Regards
    Robert
    ( http://www.priority1design.com.au )
    How easy it is for one to make such accusations. There is a bitter truth going on here and it has a lot to do with ego. As you live your life you will eventually say something or not say something, act or respond in a curtain manner or not respond at all. You will behave in way that stands in contrast to the behavior of someone else. When this happens that individual will assume that, becauses you are not responding the way they respond, you are -in fact- doing something wrong. Your behavior is the incorrect behavior. You are stupid, you are lying, you don't know how to popperly deal with the situation or .....you are in "Denial".

    People will experience something a spacific way and they will take those experiences and hold them as the standard - as the correct mindset - for which all others must share. "Out of sight - Out of mind" does not exactly equal "Denial". It has more to do with simple relativity. I am well aware that people are suffering and dying everyday all over the world. However, that is no excusse to completely throw my own personal life into some sort of Greek-tragic allegorial pathos. I'm a simple man. I deal with problems as I encounter them. If there is a problem that I can't fix, like all of the worlds suffering, than I move on to the next problem. The idea is not to think in extremes. I do not deny that bad things are happening but I am not going to sit there, at the dinner table every night, and brood endlessly over every single thing in exsistence - that is not working the way it should work.

    Be mindful before you start pointing you finger at others.
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  17. #16 Re: denial of reality 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolt
    Quote Originally Posted by p1drobert
    Humans are like that. If they don't want to deal with it they just deny its happening. I've been telling my friends about global warming for 15 years and until recently they just laughed at me. Now in Australia we're in a serious long term drought and water is scarce. Yet, a lot of us still pretend like nothing unusual is happening. Its a business as usual attitude. Deny, deny, deny.

    Regards
    Robert
    ( http://www.priority1design.com.au )
    How easy it is for one to make such accusations. There is a bitter truth going on here and it has a lot to do with ego. As you live your life you will eventually say something or not say something, act or respond in a curtain manner or not respond at all. You will behave in way that stands in contrast to the behavior of someone else. When this happens that individual will assume that, becauses you are not responding the way they respond, you are -in fact- doing something wrong. Your behavior is the incorrect behavior. You are stupid, you are lying, you don't know how to popperly deal with the situation or .....you are in "Denial".

    People will experience something a spacific way and they will take those experiences and hold them as the standard - as the correct mindset - for which all others must share. "Out of sight - Out of mind" does not exactly equal "Denial". It has more to do with simple relativity. I am well aware that people are suffering and dying everyday all over the world. However, that is no excusse to completely throw my own personal life into some sort of Greek-tragic allegorial pathos. I'm a simple man. I deal with problems as I encounter them. If there is a problem that I can't fix, like all of the worlds suffering, than I move on to the next problem. The idea is not to think in extremes. I do not deny that bad things are happening but I am not going to sit there, at the dinner table every night, and brood endlessly over every single thing in exsistence - that is not working the way it should work.

    Be mindful before you start pointing you finger at others.
    I wasn't suggesting you run around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling", or anything like that. I doubt you personally would have any chance of affecting global warming anyway. I'm refering to the fact that a lot of people will not even acknowledge that its happening.
    Recently when mentioning the problem to a friend he just said, "oh I'm sure its not as bad as they say, and if it is scientists will come up with something. Invent something to control the weather. I'm sure the government wouldn't let it happen"
    Nothing I could say to him could convince him of how dangerous the situation was. He wouldn't acknowledge it. That's what denial is. The refusal to do something about it is another matter entirely.

    I doubt that the effects of global warming can be said to be "out of sight" and therefore out of mind. When seeing images on the news of glaziers melting at a frightening rate its hard to "not see" it, except for those of us intent on not believing its happening.

    Anyway, this isn't about global warming. Its about people choosing not to see things. About people pretending certain things aren't happening so that they don't need to alter their current behaviour. Humans do this sort of thing all the time, because its human nature to.

    Regards
    Robert
    ( http://www.priority1design.com.au )
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