Thread: When is one dead?

I have some ideas but, when I think about them they only make sense for Humans. This may actually make sense since the point of death would likely be different among species (plant, animal, protist, etc.). Also, I would argue that the actual life form never dies but in fact it is the personality or individuality that dies. Since reproduction is simply a form of continueing the original life. I would love to add more once I hear some responses seeing as how my thoughts most likely need revisions.

What do y'all think. When are we actually dead? As humans or if you think all life dies in the same way what makes something dead? Prefer to stay on humans though so that we don't stray too far off topic.

Depends on what you qualify as dead.
As the body dies, then it is when the organs and cells are unable to sustain all the processes required to keep everything going in the body.

If you qualify your dead when you as in you as a person is gone, then its when the information stored inside the brain is destroyed somehow and it doesnt exist somekinda copy of it somewhere. With the brains loss of its information the so called souls is also destroyed and your existens end permenantly

Originally Posted by Zelos

Depends on what you qualify as dead.
As the body dies, then it is when the organs and cells are unable to sustain all the processes required to keep everything going in the body.

If you qualify your dead when you as in you as a person is gone, then its when the information stored inside the brain is destroyed somehow and it doesnt exist somekinda copy of it somewhere. With the brains loss of its information the so called souls is also destroyed and your existens end permenantly

But if you qualify dead as the self being gone, no matter what information is stored in your brain and what copies are made that you cannot really call you (in sence of self), then whatever self you have is whatever person that carries your identity. The identity is something that is long term preserved, ie. it cannot be momentum or mass, it can only be force, or possibly forcefield (but I'm not sure of that). The part self in another is proportinall to the part force in others.

If you don't believe in this, then tell me with logic why that wouldn't be so.

Originally Posted by Zelos

Depends on what you qualify as dead.

That is sort of my question.

I don't fully understand what LeavingQuietly is saying but tell me if this is similar. We die when our identity has gone. Our body may live on but we (our self) is gone. If we use the theory of evolution which, to a slight degree, is undeniable than we can say that life has never in fact died. It is only our identities that die. Our personalities. The things that only we can understand. If the body lies there but there is no personality or self acknkowledgement than I would argue that we are dead.

But, then we think about a single celled organism which probably has no self acknowledgement; does that mean it's not alive? What is needed for something to be alive? I just remembered this was a question in one of my Biology classes a while back and it was never answered. Might as well keep asking.

Maybe there are two levels of death: the mind and the body. By the mind I do not mean the physical brain but more the intangible idea of thought and identity. I am sure there have been cases where someone has gone "brain dead" and then come back, such as a coma. Are we completely asleep during a coma? By the body I would mean the matter of us discontinueing its work and decaying. I would say the cells dieing would be the death of the body but we still haven't defined what it means for a cell to be alive. :? Not a single cell in our body is self aware yet we are. Odd... what if these cells are self aware and our self awareness is the collective self awareness of our entire body. I would even argue that we could extend this awareness through tools.

Haha I get a little lost sometimes.

[quote="DaBOB"]

Originally Posted by Zelos

I don't fully understand what LeavingQuietly is saying but tell me if this is similar. We die when our identity has gone. Our body may live on but we (our self) is gone. If we use the theory of evolution which, to a slight degree, is undeniable than we can say that life has never in fact died. It is only our identities that die. Our personalities. The things that only we can understand. If the body lies there but there is no personality or self acknkowledgement than I would argue that we are dead.

I would difinitely agree with you on this one. Identity is the key - practical - element in human life. I've never understood the controversy surrounding the euthanization of patients who live only in a state of vegitation. To me, brain dead "IS" dead. They are one in the same.

But, then we think about a single celled organism which probably has no self acknowledgement; does that mean it's not alive? What is needed for something to be alive? I just remembered this was a question in one of my Biology classes a while back and it was never answered. Might as well keep asking..

Perhaps Life and Selfawareness are two different things. A single celled organism is very much alive. Yet life, by it's self, is nothing more than a mechanism. A Process.

Let me clear it up for you all - 'One is Dead' - when one spends more than 15 minutes a day on the computer ... . . Oh shit.....

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Originally Posted by Zelos

Depends on what you qualify as dead.

That is sort of my question.

I don't fully understand what LeavingQuietly is saying but tell me if this is similar. We die when our identity has gone. Our body may live on but we (our self) is gone. If we use the theory of evolution which, to a slight degree, is undeniable than we can say that life has never in fact died. It is only our identities that die. Our personalities. The things that only we can understand. If the body lies there but there is no personality or self acknkowledgement than I would argue that we are dead.

But, then we think about a single celled organism which probably has no self acknowledgement; does that mean it's not alive? What is needed for something to be alive? I just remembered this was a question in one of my Biology classes a while back and it was never answered. Might as well keep asking.

Maybe there are two levels of death: the mind and the body. By the mind I do not mean the physical brain but more the intangible idea of thought and identity. I am sure there have been cases where someone has gone "brain dead" and then come back, such as a coma. Are we completely asleep during a coma? By the body I would mean the matter of us discontinueing its work and decaying. I would say the cells dieing would be the death of the body but we still haven't defined what it means for a cell to be alive. :? Not a single cell in our body is self aware yet we are. Odd... what if these cells are self aware and our self awareness is the collective self awareness of our entire body. I would even argue that we could extend this awareness through tools.

Haha I get a little lost sometimes.

We are not speaking of the same identity I presume. I was talking about whatever stays the same though the body when anything in it change. What I call it identity, and the only variable it can depend on is force, since momentum etc. does not remain. Any given self might be lost, but the identity is whatever force that your self cause on any object, and any self with your identity is you. Since there is something called gravity, the identity is bigger then the self, Infact, a self might have many identities, but you only experience one. Most commonly the one you are connected to by most force. For more info on this you should read this:
http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...read.php?t=225

"The self is that which the self has incommon with itself"

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Let me clear it up for you all - 'One is Dead' - when one spends more than 15 minutes a day on the computer ... . . Oh shit.....

Megabrain: 1,464 post.


...........I think you've been dead for a very long time. :wink:

One really dies when the brain dies. The remaining metabolizing the goes on after that in the carcass is not relevant and is fleeting.

There are really no levels of death. We define the term as the end of life. By defnition, then, there can be and is no "after-life."

Of course, the death of the individual is very different than the death of a species! Also, when you die, your society continues on. We can call that society a "social organism." It has a life cycle also. Consider it a new type of you or us with its own reproductive process . . . How is that for something to think about?

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

Good good.

Originally Posted by charles brough

One really dies when the brain dies. The remaining metabolizing the goes on after that in the carcass is not relevant and is fleeting.

Does a bacteria die when its brain dies? Last time I heard bacteria have no nervous tissue, seeing as how they are only a single cell. Does this mean that as long a a single cell in your body is still alive than you are still alive.

I now think of it the other way around. Since we, with all our cells, are a whole it would almost seem that we are only alive when all our cells are. Obviously this can't be so since our skin for example is just dead cells.

Maybe it is when the cells that function as stem cells that determine life or death. If they are not working than a quick death is inevitable.

Originally Posted by charles brough

There are really no levels of death. We define the term as the end of life. By defnition, then, there can be and is no "after-life."

Hmmm "end of life"? I suppose this would mean that we would have to define life.

Originally Posted by Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Life:
existence in the physical world

Originally Posted by Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Exist:
be: to be, especially to be a real, actual, or current thing, not merely something imagined or written about

If I am correct the "after-life" is a state that, unless you are experiancing it, can only be imagined. According to the definitions I have provided there could be an "after-life" after death.

Originally Posted by charles brough

Of course, the death of the individual is very different than the death of a species! Also, when you die, your society continues on. We can call that society a "social organism." It has a life cycle also. Consider it a new type of you or us with its own reproductive process . . . How is that for something to think about?

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

Maybe this is what you meant but, if not I would like to take it another step (I may have already said this). In many definitions of life the term "self reproduction" often appears. I would likfe to analyze this term. "Reproduction" is to copy something. I would argue that when a cell divides the only thing being copied is the DNA. Everything else simply separates and/or new ones are created. This would mean that self reproduction is the copy of DNA. If this idea is fine with you than it is fine with me.

Now every cell in our body (almost) is reproducing DNA. When two people (or one these days) have a child the reproduction has never ceased. The life has never died. Since the beginning of time (of life's time that is) life has never stop living. Certain individual factories (single cell or multicellular organisms) become absolete and stop functioning in order to recycle themselves in the "wheel of life" but, the actual life never stops. What does stop, or in most cases seems to stop, is an individuals personality and/or identity. This is why I suggested that when this identity is lost is when we are actually dead. As to what this identity is? That is another topic.

Back to what you were saying. I think what I am talking about is different. You are saying that the society (og humans) is a living thing, in a way. It has cycles, that probably can be traced back to cycles of indivuals on a mass scale. It also depends on other life such as pathogens and food sources. I think that my idea about the continuance of life can be applied in a similar way. When the individual dies it makes room for new (and hopefully but not always better) individuals to continue the societies life.

hmm... I think that is enough for now.

But if you qualify dead as the self being gone

that falls under the information stored in your brain since that is the self

DaBOB wrote: "You are saying that the society (og humans) is a living thing, in a way. It has cycles, that probably can be traced back to cycles of indivuals on a mass scale. It also depends on other life such as pathogens and food sources. I think that my idea about the continuance of life can be applied in a similar way. When the individual dies it makes room for new (and hopefully but not always better) individuals to continue the societies life. ""


What I was saying is the the great religion-based societies of history---such as Christendom, Islam, the Egyptian Civilization, The Mesopotomian society and civilization, etc. all began, grew to maturity, and either died or are now in decline. I am saying that these are super-organisms which exist as a sort of phantom form of life, semi-life, that uses religions in place of DNA; and because of religions functioning as a sort of bonding glue to these societies, serves to hold them together by means of their inherently rigid doctrines. Some of these doctrines, the least regressive ones, survive on in the new religion and society it bonds (the reproductive process)---just as if it were DNA. Thus, evolution can occur. We can call it social evolution.

But as societies progress, they outgrow their aging doctrinology and become obsolete. Hence, they then die and have to be replaced. It has happened over and over ithrought human history..

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

hmm.. interesting. I wonder, how long do you think America has left?

Originally Posted by Zelos

But if you qualify dead as the self being gone

that falls under the information stored in your brain since that is the self

Then you could be quite a number of persons there, if you are planing to transfer the self into another borg. And for your information the information in the brain is transfered to other matter with time, just to complicate things a bit. And you could read my signature, just to make a confused borg even more so.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

hmm.. interesting. I wonder, how long do you think America has left?

Oh, I see "America" enduring. I see it changing gradually as it has been and becoming more Christian fundamentdalist, restricted, dictatorial, and very much poorer. A reasonable forecast of the time it would take has been very difficult, as you must know. In general, what I map out is an increasingly pooer, hostile, divided world into the middle of the century. Either a new society spreading across the world will begin to develop within the next thirty years or so, or we could experience the end of civilization itself before the end of the century.

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.colm

Besides, Americas only oil shake has retired, and that's bill gates (kidding)
Not to mention there soon wont be any oil, we are soon equally oil shakes in god's eyes.

Then you could be quite a number of persons there, if you are planing to transfer the self into another borg. And for your information the information in the brain is transfered to other matter with time, just to complicate things a bit. And you could read my signature, just to make a confused borg even more so.

If i transfer myself into a other bieng wich a previus person is stored it will be deleted and me will replace it. I cant have more than one person stored in a brain since i delete the previus one. Of course with somekinda super computer you could fuse 2 individuals toghater in one mind

Originally Posted by Zelos

Then you could be quite a number of persons there, if you are planing to transfer the self into another borg. And for your information the information in the brain is transfered to other matter with time, just to complicate things a bit. And you could read my signature, just to make a confused borg even more so.

If i transfer myself into a other bieng wich a previus person is stored it will be deleted and me will replace it. I cant have more than one person stored in a brain since i delete the previus one. Of course with somekinda super computer you could fuse 2 individuals toghater in one mind

What if you don't delete it? I don't see how deleting something making any difference.

What if you don't delete it? I don't see how deleting something making any difference.

download alot of movies and such and when the disc is full delete it all and you see it does make a huge differens. its no differens here. By deleting the previus person the brain becomes a empty shell where i can be stored but id rather have myself stored in something none-organic

Originally Posted by charles brough

Originally Posted by DaBOB

hmm.. interesting. I wonder, how long do you think America has left?

Oh, I see "America" enduring. I see it changing gradually as it has been and becoming more Christian fundamentdalist, restricted, dictatorial, and very much poorer. A reasonable forecast of the time it would take has been very difficult, as you must know. In general, what I map out is an increasingly pooer, hostile, divided world into the middle of the century. Either a new society spreading across the world will begin to develop within the next thirty years or so, or we could experience the end of civilization itself before the end of the century.

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.colm

Good stuff.

Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly

Not to mention there soon wont be any oil,

ha, oil... I could care less about that. Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works. I can't believe we still use that oil stuff. It's so dirty and loud and wasteful and smelly and it polutes water and kills fish etc... In other words it's garabage and that's probably has something to do with why it is so deep in the ground anyways... cuz there is no freaking logical use for the stuff (well maybe a few). If it takes running out of oil just to learn how to live without it than that is what must be done!!

haha, you like my rant. :P

The way I see it death is the cessation of all normal function.
Death could be defined as inability to independantly consume energy, as all "life" as we know it from single celled organisms through to the self aware/absorbed human infestation require the consumsuption of energy to perform any fuction.
If we confine this to the human genome and our general obsession with ones self we tend to blur the lines to suit our individual beliefs. Beyond any personal beliefs the basic definition still applies why should we attain any greater existance beyond death , that does not apply to all life forms.
Human life, lets put it into perspective, on a global scale we are just another evolutionary anomolie which will pass in time but will leave a greater footprint than all before us.
On any other celestial scale we are insignificant and will most likely remain that way.

Then the sun is alive?

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works.

Maybe you're not an American - but bicycles are not practical for most Americans in their everyday lives.

Death could be defined as inability to independantly consume energy, as all "life" as we know it from single celled organisms through to the self aware/absorbed human infestation require the consumsuption of energy to perform any fuction.

this definition lacks the ability to seperate living material from none living material.
A more specefic defintion of this is the physical death that i refered to where all biological function eequired to sustain life is terminated and is unable be resumed for some reasons.

But then again this would put into question if you were to download a person into a robotic body where it is and the biological bodies biological functions cease. Is the person then dead or alive in the robotic body?

Originally Posted by Zelos

But then again this would put into question if you were to download a person into a robotic body where it is and the biological bodies biological functions cease. Is the person then dead or alive in the robotic body?

That's the point isn't it? It's not. So if you do that Zelos, then you ain't among the living anymore.

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works.

Maybe you're not an American - but bicycles are not practical for most Americans in their everyday lives.

Probably because they aren't marked as 4x4 with a 12 litre engine...

More like the distances between the places we need to go are on average considerably further than in say, many countries in Europe.

Originally Posted by Zelos

But then again this would put into question if you were to download a person into a robotic body where it is and the biological bodies biological functions cease. Is the person then dead or alive in the robotic body?

Biologically, they are dead. This situation might require new terminology to deal with. They'd still probably be considered a person in terms of legal rights but you can't call them a biological organism any more.

That's the point isn't it? It's not. So if you do that Zelos, then you ain't among the living anymore.

But i do interact with you so aint i alive then? (assuming i did the transfer)

Biologically, they are dead. This situation might require new terminology to deal with. They'd still probably be considered a person in terms of legal rights but you can't call them a biological organism any more.

they can certainly not be called biological organisms in anyway but they are still people.

In this we get close to the question: "What gives one the rights of a human bieng?"
Id answer "Anything that shows intelligence suffient enough"

Originally Posted by Zelos

That's the point isn't it? It's not. So if you do that Zelos, then you ain't among the living anymore.

But i do interact with you so aint i alive then? (assuming i did the transfer)

No, you are dead, the new organism is alive.

but the mechanical one is me

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works.

Maybe you're not an American - but bicycles are not practical for most Americans in their everyday lives.

haha... wrong my friend. I am an American and I ride a bicycle to work and school almost every day in one of the most rainy cities in the U.S. Not a problem. In fact I can't think of a time in which I haven't enjoyed my bike rides.

P.S.
I don't even have a driver's license. We are all lazy in one way or another right.

Ok so I left out the word biological but even so this would not apply to the sun as it generates energy with aid of matter where biological life generates matter with the aid of energy.

As for having your mind downloaded into a robot well... you're still dead but now there is a robot with your memories and character. It is a robot and will always be a robot you are no longer HUMAN...unless of course you whatched Mellenium Man too many times and even then to be human the end result must be death.

you're still dead but now there is a robot with your memories and character. It is a robot and will always be a robot you are no longer HUMAN

that robot dont contain my memories and character, that robot contain ME!
of ocurse its not human its better than humans so how can it be human when tis better?

You don't have the same identity. A goldpiece does not become another existing goldpiece, because you modify it. If you delete one persons memory to create your memory, you are still not that person.

yes it is me since me is the information in my head and the way it is processed and since its equal (at the time of transfer) it mean it is me that is in that robotic body. All this assumes that the previus lesser suefull organic body is discarded

Originally Posted by Zelos

yes it is me since me is the information in my head and the way it is processed and since its equal (at the time of transfer) it mean it is me that is in that robotic body. All this assumes that the previus lesser suefull organic body is discarded

that is not true since all things that are equall are not the same, and besides you are not equall to yesterday so anyone could be you if that was so. That's why identity matters.

Two different gold pieces do not have the same identity.

You wanting it to has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works.

Maybe you're not an American - but bicycles are not practical for most Americans in their everyday lives.

haha... wrong my friend. I am an American and I ride a bicycle to work and school almost every day in one of the most rainy cities in the U.S. Not a problem. In fact I can't think of a time in which I haven't enjoyed my bike rides.

P.S.
I don't even have a driver's license. We are all lazy in one way or another right.

Good for you, but that's not most Americans. It's a big, spread out country and most people live further away from their work and sometimes school than you apparently do.

Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly

Originally Posted by Zelos

yes it is me since me is the information in my head and the way it is processed and since its equal (at the time of transfer) it mean it is me that is in that robotic body. All this assumes that the previus lesser suefull organic body is discarded

that is not true since all things that are equall are not the same, and besides you are not equall to yesterday so anyone could be you if that was so. That's why identity matters.

Two different gold pieces do not have the same identity.

You wanting it to has nothing to do with it.

They are the same and since i discard my previus useless body i am the only one left so i am me and the other one isnt me since the data it contained is destroyed

That's not logic, if there was 2 identical, you would not know who you are, no more then you might not be any of them.

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Besides it will give all you (not really you) lazies a chance to learn how a bicycle works.

Maybe you're not an American - but bicycles are not practical for most Americans in their everyday lives.

haha... wrong my friend. I am an American and I ride a bicycle to work and school almost every day in one of the most rainy cities in the U.S. Not a problem. In fact I can't think of a time in which I haven't enjoyed my bike rides.

P.S.
I don't even have a driver's license. We are all lazy in one way or another right.

Good for you, but that's not most Americans. It's a big, spread out country and most people live further away from their work and sometimes school than you apparently do.

I know and I understand this, not to mention the fact that I require at least 8 hours of sleep every night (because of how much physical activity I do). Although I would like to think that bicycle technology could advance and become a more standard mode of transportation, although that is probably just a dream.

What if your mind is just copied and put into the robotic body. Then as your new robot comes to "life" and you see it rise it says "discard this puny Organic body". You scream Noo, I am still here. Too late the robot picks you up and throws you into a bottomless pit.
Was the robot you? Do you "live" on in the robot?

Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly

That's not logic, if there was 2 identical, you would not know who you are, no more then you might not be any of them.

i´ll allways know i am me since i can only be at one body at one time but if the previus body is not either discarded, or the information erased there will be 2 of me wich soon becomes 2 different individuals.

What if your mind is just copied and put into the robotic body. Then as your new robot comes to "life" and you see it rise it says "discard this puny Organic body". You scream Noo, I am still here. Too late the robot picks you up and throws you into a bottomless pit.
Was the robot you? Do you "live" on in the robot?

he is everything i was until my mind was put there afterwards we became 2 different individuals and this is exacly why i say the information shall be erased just after the process is done so you wont get confusion

You are right there becomes two individuals. The robot being a new individual and you would die with your organic body. You would not know the thought process of the robot or what he is thinking.

I've been reading this thread, and doing some serious thinking regard the premise, ie your conscience being tranfered into another body, be it organic or non-organic. it would have to be done whilst the body was unconscious, and for the mind(you) to live on in the new receptacle, the old one would need to be destroyed, or kept in stasis. so zelos has the right idea. two of the same mind just does not work, in the film "the prestige" hugh jackman has just this kind of dilema with the tesla machine, as he creates a new him, he destroys the old one, so to him he just continues being. even though he know his previous incarnate dies, he knows and feels nothing.

And that's why tomorrow you will wake up as your mama.

When one is not alive.

Yes, it's called instant teleporting you see, totally logical.

I'll expand that later, right now I have to eat.

Right. It was a joke you see.

Death is the end of once existens
Death is the end of the road

Death can be avoided but you have to do sacrefises wich most humans are not ready to do. They are to locked into their programming.

But hell im going for a robotic body when ever i can i´ll be first in line

I used to think one was 'dead' when one reached 20, then 30, then 40..... now I think it's way way past 100!

Yes, every part of a feeling is a feeling since else it would not be a part of the feeling hence every change is a feeling. But since feeling good release photons containing a wee bit of someones self, we should not feel at all. Instead we should try to stop the release of photons, only then can we keep what we initialy obtained in form of sum of happiness.

So being human is really stupid, cause we are very warm, and on the very surface of the earth. Take a good look at the dust three foot down instead, the risk of it loosing its self is practically non existent. Though it ain't having much fun. Still, it is better to be happy with having been created, then to want more.

The iron in the middle of the earth ofcourse, currently has alot of advantages. But they are not the best though. Take a good look at those far away planets, with practically zero temperature. The very core of them. Sure, they are never happy, but they have had some atleast. But honestly, we'll never escape the solar expansion, and then we are all at the surface!

Etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

I used to think one was 'dead' when one reached 20, then 30, then 40..... now I think it's way way past 100!

Yup, have you been given your telegramme yet ?

Originally Posted by Megabrain

I used to think one was 'dead' when one reached 20, then 30, then 40..... now I think it's way way past 100!

youre just very old then

I am told none of the atoms in my body 10 years ago are still there, I see no sign of this when I look in the mirror, I do still seem to be around, I guess that means nobody ever even get's to 10!

Yeah, that's special. 10 you say, I've heard 70. I am guessing that there are bounds left in the body from your previous mass. For instance when you eat sugar you get happy, it is a change that release energy and leave a bound. It takes more then 1 particle to make a bound. So you are actually interconnected with your disposal. given that, you can live until your disposal destroys the bound.

Originally Posted by charles brough

One really dies when the brain dies

I'd tend to agree. Sounds like comon sense; but here's an interesting article:

'Mind and brain seem to be separate' says professor
http://thepsychictimes.com/articles/fenwick.htm

Originally Posted by redewenur

Originally Posted by charles brough

One really dies when the brain dies

I'd tend to agree. Sounds like comon sense; but here's an interesting article:

'Mind and brain seem to be separate' says professor
http://thepsychictimes.com/articles/fenwick.htm

Thank you for the link!!
Personally, I think the mind has more to do with a colective conciousness between all of our being (every cell in the body). Whereas the brain is just the command center.

Since consciousness is switched off at night, [and at some other times] I'd be wary of linking death with consciousness, seperating the mind or consciousness from the physical brain sounds to me reasonable, the brain can exist and survive without consciousness, the reverse [at least to atheists] is not true.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

the brain can exist and survive without consciousness, the reverse...is not true.

That's always a reasonable view, knowing what we know - but maybe we don't know enough, and it won't be conclusive until it's known what consciousness is. I'll keep an open mind, even though the evidence suggests that you're right.

One is dead after you perform any operation on it that causes the resulting number to not equal one!! just kidding.

You are dead as soon as you finish dying.
As soon as you are born, you receive a 100% probability of death and start dying from there.. we are all dead to begin with. Sounds like a curse

the opposite of death is life. but unfortunately, we dont have any clear definitions of life, therefore theres no definitive definition of death.

When is one dead?

....When one no longer has to pay taxes

this starts to sound a bit like those "love is ..." cartoons but wth, here goes :

death is when the cell repair mechanisms cease throughout the body of an organism

kDkeath is the complete disruption of homeostasis to the point that the brain ceases to function, or ceases to connect with other body parts. At this point, all signs of life (that we live folks can see) are gone (breathing stops, heart stops, etc.). Though it might be argued that the brain isn't completely dead yet.

Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist

kDkeath is the complete disruption of homeostasis to the point that the brain ceases to function, or ceases to connect with other body parts. At this point, all signs of life (that we live folks can see) are gone (breathing stops, heart stops, etc.). Though it might be argued that the brain isn't completely dead yet.

you are obviously referring to organisms that have brains, hearts, lungs etc. like ourselves

Originally Posted by marnixR

Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist

kDkeath is the complete disruption of homeostasis to the point that the brain ceases to function, or ceases to connect with other body parts. At this point, all signs of life (that we live folks can see) are gone (breathing stops, heart stops, etc.). Though it might be argued that the brain isn't completely dead yet.

you are obviously referring to organisms that have brains, hearts, lungs etc. like ourselves

Yah, I assumed "one" was referring to a human. 8)