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Thread: is god an alien ?

  1. #1 is god an alien ? 
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    if you asume time is infinite than everything that has happend or will happen can happen again.
    and if the singularity is plausible,(a certain point in time that the evolution of science will increase so fast that in a single second more will be invented/discovered since the beginning of men)
    then you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe, so the only thing to do is to recreate certain situations but just a bit different

    if my assumption is correct then this could have already happend and god is just another alien ?


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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if you asume time is infinite
    Why would we assume that?
    Is there any particular reason to so assume?

    and if the singularity is plausible,(a certain point in time that the evolution of science will increase so fast that in a single second more will be invented/discovered since the beginning of men) then you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe
    Why?

    if my assumption is correct then this could have already happend and god is just another alien ?
    To decide that "god" is an alien you'd firstly have to show that he exists.
    And what do you mean "another" alien?
    We haven't found any so far.

    Your speculation/ question is predicated on far too many unsupported "ifs" to be considered philosophy.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe

    Is it not impossible to know everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if my assumption is correct then this could have already happend and god is just another alien ?

    Your final assumption is preceded by a reasoning that does not justify it:
    1. Assumption: Time is infinite and circular.
    2. Assumption: Singularity is possible.
    3. Omniscience will be reached.
    4. Therefore, god is an alien.
    This is an example of non sequitur.
    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; August 7th, 2013 at 06:26 AM. Reason: Omniscience, not omnipotence.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if you asume time is infinite
    Why would we assume that?
    Is there any particular reason to so assume?
    we do not know wether or not time is (in)finite, thats why i make an assumption that it is infinite in this hypothetical question
    because when it is infinite, than you can find a "parallel universe" further in time, (i mean a point in time when everything just happens again)

    and if the singularity is plausible,(a certain point in time that the evolution of science will increase so fast that in a single second more will be invented/discovered since the beginning of men) then you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe
    Why?
    it is the principle of singularity, technology excels exponentially, the only thing to do when you know everything(about the universe) is to create a situation where you dont know a thing about .

    if my assumption is correct then this could have already happend and god is just another alien ?
    To decide that "god" is an alien you'd firstly have to show that he exists.
    "god created the universe", if you create a universe doesn't that make you god(by definition) ?
    And what do you mean "another" alien?
    We haven't found any so far.
    nope we haven't but we dont know they dont exist either, dunno why i typed another,
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  6. #5  
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    I’ve tried my own hand at philosophy and failed. However, from my cut short experience, I soon learned the difference between Philosophy and Speculation
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    we do not know wether or not time is (in)finite, thats why i make an assumption that it is infinite in this hypothetical question
    So it's just empty speculation. Okay.

    because when it is infinite, than you can find a "parallel universe" further in time, (i mean a point in time when everything just happens again)
    With another speculation piled on top.

    it is the principle of singularity, technology excels exponentially, the only thing to do when you know everything(about the universe) is to create a situation where you dont know a thing about .
    No, I meant why do you assume "you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe "?

    "god created the universe", if you create a universe doesn't that make you god(by definition) ?
    Does it?
    Please define god - most "definitions" sorta cover omniscience, omnipotence and that sort of thing.
    One act of creation does not a god make.
    Plus, of course, "knowing everything" might, possibly, include the knowledge that creating a universe isn't possible.
    Or, maybe, possible in theory but not possible in practise.

    nope we haven't but we dont know they dont exist either, dunno why i typed another,
    Ah, another "we don't know that they don't so let's take it that they do"...
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  8. #7  
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    Non sequitur, yeah, but it is kinda true for another reason: God is unearthly, in other words extraterrestrial.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  9. #8  
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    ok, let me retry

    if time is infinite and singularity is possible

    if time is infinity everything that happens has already happend before and will happen again,
    at a certain point everything will happen again, (like throwing a dice, at a certain point you will roll the same number)

    the connection i make between singulartiy and "god"(by difinition, the creator, or whatever you may call him/her/it) is one i've read/saw before.
    when you reach singularity, you could recreate every situation, and thus revive everyone that has died in the past, (so you create a form of "heaven" )
    and if you find this to far fetched, see it then as a computer simulation of the universe , and then they copy the memory everyone that dies into a clone/robot in our universe

    now to my point, if time is infinite, this situation has already happened , and this is just the "simulation" and our creator("god") is just an alien(or human) life form.

    anyway, it was just something random i tought about
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if time is infinity everything that happens has already happend before and will happen again
    Assumption. AGAIN.

    at a certain point everything will happen again, (like throwing a dice, at a certain point you will roll the same number)
    With a die there are only 6 possible outcomes [sup]1[sup].
    Once you start talking about an entire universe then you're talking about combinations of outcomes, and the number of possibilities rises massively.

    the connection i make between singulartiy and "god"(by difinition, the creator, or whatever you may call him/her/it) is one i've read/saw before.
    Yet you can't be bothered to explain it here for those of us that haven't seen it.

    when you reach singularity, you could recreate every situation, and thus revive everyone that has died in the past, (so you create a form of "heaven" )
    Really?
    How do you know?

    and if you find this to far fetched, see it then as a computer simulation of the universe , and then they copy the memory everyone that dies into a clone/robot in our universe
    What about the people that died long before we got to the "singularity"?

    now to my point, if time is infinite, this situation has already happened
    Not necessarily. See above.

    and this is just the "simulation" and our creator("god") is just an alien(or human) life form.
    Doesn't follow.

    anyway, it was just something random i tought about
    Yeah. Unfortunately philosophy is, or at least should be, rather more disciplined than "random thoughts".

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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Non sequitur, yeah, but it is kinda true for another reason: God is unearthly, in other words extraterrestrial.
    Rubbish.
    God is not only not "unearthly" he's human.
    English, in fact.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if you asume time is infinite
    Why would we assume that?
    Is there any particular reason to so assume?
    I don't believe time is infinite and I certainly don't believe God is an alien.
    Given the fact, however, that several knowledgeable posters, on this forum, have said, at various times, it is very possible the Universe is infinite in extent, and given that space and time are so closely linked, that might provide some kind of justification for assuming time could be infinite.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    My speculation that time is a banana, therefore God is an invisible pink unicorn
    Your Mickey Mouse is one big stupid dope!
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  14. #13  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    I don't believe time is infinite and I certainly don't believe God is an alien.
    Given the fact, however, that several knowledgeable posters, on this forum, have said, at various times, it is very possible the Universe is infinite in extent, and given that space and time are so closely linked, that might provide some kind of justification for assuming time could be infinite.
    Weird... I was sure there was a post referring to the fact that, since we know our universe had a beginning, time isn't, therefore infinite.
    (Being "infinite" cyclically is a different thing).
    Nevertheless, that's my take on it.
    As for "infinite in extent" consider this:
    We know that the "universe" was once pretty small.
    We know it expanded at less than an infinite speed.
    We also know that infinite time hasn't passed since it was was small.
    Ergo: it's still a finite size (extent-wise).
    (Just a thought...)
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    Just watch animal behaviour towards humans. Most animals dont consider humans as their natural prey. (I am not including microbes here because they just consider humans as host for procreation). As to the existence of GOD as alien well there are arguments. I wonder how the angels of yesteryears have become extinct with progress of humans. We also attribute most of human behaviour to GOD. example kindness, morality etc. On the whole the notion of GOD is coercing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    As to the existence of GOD as alien well there are arguments.
    But are there any good ones?

    I wonder how the angels of yesteryears have become extinct with progress of humans.
    What?
    Basically angels became "extinct" because we became more critical of, and less ready to believe in, fairy stories.

    We also attribute most of human behaviour to GOD.
    When you say "we" who, specifically, is included in this "we"?

    On the whole the notion of GOD is coercing.
    Unless you're able to think clearly.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    Just watch animal behaviour towards humans. Most animals dont consider humans as their natural prey.
    Take a walk in the African savannah and tell me if your ideology holds water. We may not be their common food, but we are an easy meal without our technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    As to the existence of GOD as alien well there are arguments.
    My cousin has many arguments as to why Pokemon is better than Beyblades.

    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I wonder how the angels of yesteryears have become extinct with progress of humans.
    As we gained knowledge, we became able to attribute reality to the dark areas on the fringes of our knowledge. Angels no more became extinct with the progress of humans than Thor became extinct with the understanding of lightning.

    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    We also attribute most of human behaviour to GOD. example kindness, morality etc.
    We? I attribute our behavior to neurochemistry and biology.

    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    On the whole the notion of GOD is coercing.
    To you, perhaps. I find it irrational and am no more drawn to it than to skydiving without a parachute.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    As for "infinite in extent" consider this:
    We know that the "universe" was once pretty small.
    We know it expanded at less than an infinite speed.
    We also know that infinite time hasn't passed since it was was small.
    Ergo: it's still a finite size (extent-wise).

    We only know that the observable universe was small. If the universe is infinite (spatially) then it was always infinite (it was just denser back in the day).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Weird... I was sure there was a post referring to the fact that, since we know our universe had a beginning, time isn't, therefore infinite.
    (Being "infinite" cyclically is a different thing).
    Nevertheless, that's my take on it.
    As for "infinite in extent" consider this:
    We know that the "universe" was once pretty small.
    We know it expanded at less than an infinite speed.
    We also know that infinite time hasn't passed since it was was small.
    Ergo: it's still a finite size (extent-wise).
    (Just a thought...)
    I don't believe time is infinite or that space is infinite, in extent, so I agree with you. I also accept the BB Theory.
    As far as space is concerned I was simply saying that several reputable posters, on this forum, and other reputable Internet sources declare that the Universe might be infinite in size. These sources also accept the BB Theory.
    As far as time is concerned the BB theory makes no comment about the instant of the BB or anything that may have happened "before". Without, hopefully, sounding too pompous I find the idea the Universe, we see around us, had a beginning, philosophically pleasing, but I sometimes find it difficult to accept the BB was the first ever event.
    Surely it is not unreasonable to suggest, or speculate, that if something existed before the BB, even if we may never come close to finding out about that state of affairs, then, it is possible, time may also have existed.
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  20. #19  
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    as/re
    "Is GOD an alien"
    I had a friend who certainly thought so---he would read me passages from his bible describing "angels with silvery wings" etc... which he took to be air tanks or jet packs......
    but
    then
    again
    he was bipolar manic, and, upon occasion, prone to flights of fancy
    ezek 24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters
    etc.
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  21. #20  
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    Seems like a biblical interpretation as probable as any other I've seen.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    I think some responders here have misinterpreted what the OP is trying to ask.

    He is not typically trying to wangle stuff so that he can justify belief in a god, he is simply posing an interesting question where if it is taken that certain, currently unknown, things are true, if a certain condition could be possible.

    Think of Arthur C Clarke's famous saying that, and I'm paraphrasing: "Sufficiently advanced technology is equal to magic".

    I happen to think it is a perfectly valid and interesting question. Personally, I can't imagine ever thinking of any kind of creature as being anything other than an advanced alien, no matter how advanced that might be or how apparently "magical" it may be. But at the same time, I am sure the same can not be said of a very large percentage of humans.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumstig View Post
    if you asume time is infinite than everything that has happend or will happen can happen again.
    We don't need that assumption. It would be sufficient if time were very long, but not quite infinite.

    and if the singularity is plausible,(a certain point in time that the evolution of science will increase so fast that in a single second more will be invented/discovered since the beginning of men)
    It needs to be more than plausible. It needs to be likely. And..... I'd say it's fairly likely.

    Even falling short of that, we could settle for assuming that technology will progress a lot further than it has already.

    Also we'd need to assume that humanity's path to development is somewhat typical for evolution driven life systems, and that the evolution process can start on worlds outside of ours. (Both very likely to be true.)

    then you would reach a point when we know everything to know about our universe, so the only thing to do is to recreate certain situations but just a bit different
    We'd never reach a point where we knew absolutely everything, but maybe we could reach a point where we know quite a lot more than we do now.


    if my assumption is correct then this could have already happend and god is just another alien ?

    It works if we allow that God isn't absolutely all knowing, nor absolutely all powerful. Just so very knowledgeable and powerful compared to us mere humans that for all intents and purposes his knowledge and power are indistinguishable from absolute in a human's perspective.

    Of course then we'd have to either.

    A) - Reject the bible, since in that book God claims to be absolutely all knowing and all powerful.

    B) - Accept that God lies to us sometimes.

    C) - Accept that God fibs a little if he thinks we wouldn't understand the truth (making him seem very condescending.)
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    ~ Given the imagination of humanity, it is of little surprise that all sorts of facts that are far to often thought of as real
    Which are proven to be not so... by scientific inquiry..
    The insertion that 'God' might be of alien origin might be pivotal to excepting a God does or ever did exist.
    I find this all as facts UN supported.. That there once was a great expansion is evidently supported by the expansion as yet witnessed as real. A high factor of probability is excepted.
    That a God might now or ever did have any part of this is not a proven fact.,
    and that we are hardly ever likely to know everything is made clear by the things we forget...

    I find agreement with 'Kojax' post #24.
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    There are no aliens.wake up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    There are no aliens.wake up.
    Evidence?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    There are no aliens.wake up.
    Evidence?

    Disproving the existence of an entity is quite impossible, thus I am curious about the reasoning used that leads to the assumption that alien life does not exist.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    thus I am curious about the reasoning used that leads to the assumption that alien life does not exist.
    My mum told me!
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    I'm confident that alien life exists. The numbers for it are too good. I'm also confident we won't get to meet it anytime soon, if ever.
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    Personally I think it's more interesting to think about if we are in a simulation or not. Just as a side note. I'm sure it's been discussed many times before in the forum in different threads. I think it's fun to imagine just because the nature is so matemathical. From fractal patterns in nature to constants of the universe. It seems a lot of the stuff in our reality has blueprints, and are generated with some variety created by a random factor of surrounding parameters affecting it. Like a tree for example would have a mathematical blueprint of how it should grow but the shape of the individual tree is affected by other trees, amount of nutrition etc. And so if everything has a foundation in maths, would it not be possible to create a simulation of reality with the right parameters? I don't think it would take a supernatural beeing, but a much higher intellect and technology than we have. I don't claim to scientifically beeing able to prove this in any way, but it's just an interesting thought.
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    Is God an alien? From my perspective, nothing else could be closer to the truth.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    interesting: the way you phrased that
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    interesting: the way you phrased that
    The OP author never defined it. Thus I am free to make an alien anything I want, even something like a thought.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Is God an alien? From my perspective, nothing else could be closer to the truth.
    ~ I look at this as interesting but as yet a unconfirmed set of thoughts... Is there proof of any alien = no., and it's Tested.
    Is there a substantial point of difference between animals and man = no. I invite you to challenge that. Tested.
    Then from where do ideas like this come from = Imaginations.. Tested.
    That now we can say that the word 'alien', when used as this does, means more than the original concept..
    That a ' Not of this Earth' is attached to this then it gains momentum as the question then can be posed;
    Is it possible, probable or even likely that This Earth has had a alien visitation, and that a no answer is likely the ONLY option available given the weight of there being not a single case of any alien as yet known.
    You must except that the probability of life existing away from this planet is more than just probable. Has it been here = No.
    Could it be that 'God' or the concept of one is born from and of a 'Alien' visitor and or race..
    I would like to put up a NO answer, but can not. For as thin ( non existent ) as it is.
    It must remain as a possible explanation.
    Is a explanation required. No. The fact that humanity must want for alien contact and even turns to a belief structure of 'Gods'
    For some proof of alien visitations is of itself, interesting.. is it part of our history.
    and a small voice from deep within screams at me. This I can not brush aside. I want to. Can you ? should I ?--- yes Until...
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  35. #34  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Thus I am free to make an alien anything I want, even something like a thought.
    I've met a number of people to whom thought is apparently completely alien.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  36. #35  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Is God an alien? From my perspective, nothing else could be closer to the truth.
    ~ I look at this as interesting but as yet a unconfirmed set of thoughts... Is there proof of any alien = no., and it's Tested.
    Is there a substantial point of difference between animals and man = no. I invite you to challenge that. Tested.
    Then from where do ideas like this come from = Imaginations.. Tested.
    That now we can say that the word 'alien', when used as this does, means more than the original concept..
    That a ' Not of this Earth' is attached to this then it gains momentum as the question then can be posed;
    Is it possible, probable or even likely that This Earth has had a alien visitation, and that a no answer is likely the ONLY option available given the weight of there being not a single case of any alien as yet known.
    You must except that the probability of life existing away from this planet is more than just probable. Has it been here = No.
    Could it be that 'God' or the concept of one is born from and of a 'Alien' visitor and or race..
    I would like to put up a NO answer, but can not. For as thin ( non existent ) as it is.
    It must remain as a possible explanation.
    Is a explanation required. No. The fact that humanity must want for alien contact and even turns to a belief structure of 'Gods'
    For some proof of alien visitations is of itself, interesting.. is it part of our history.
    and a small voice from deep within screams at me. This I can not brush aside. I want to. Can you ? should I ?--- yes Until...
    My friend, you missed my point. From my perspective, any thought of mine that includes a God is absolutely alien. I have long ago dismissed any thoughts of a God and thus, if I were to have one creep in there, then it would be totally alien. And that's the truth.

    I've met a number of people to whom thought is apparently completely alien.
    OUCH!
    astromark likes this.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  37. #36  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
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    ~ Yes I had considered that just the process of thinking is alien.. but not to you. The fact you are here is testament to that..
    and that I would be content with the same label.. Thinking might not be my strong point.
    But I do reject the very idea that a god or any gods are a part of human history at all..
    A concept of human construct is not a reality for me.. and I will argue the right of others to have and express whatever they find as true.. just leave it out of schools...
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  38. #37  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    With all the rest of the crap taught in schools, what's one more bit of miserable misinformation?
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  39. #38  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
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    " " As we navigated our ship to draw along side the massive alien craft a attempt at communication was established..
    "Congratulations Earthlings you have joined your gods." and then silence.. " "

    Now that I would find amusing.. but do not imagine it true.
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  40. #39  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    My mum told me!

    If this explanation does not result into a Nobel Prize, then I do not know what does.

    Sidenotes:
    If god is an alien, then where did those aliens come from?
    It seems like we are discussing the concept of Prometheus (2012).
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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