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Thread: What is the meaning of life?

  1. #1 What is the meaning of life? 
    Forum Sophomore jakesyl's Avatar
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    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce? Is it something else entirely, is there a meaning to life at all, after all animals have no meaning and they continue to reproduce with no hope for a better life or a better life for their kids.


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce? Is it something else entirely, is there a meaning to life at all, after all animals have no meaning and they continue to reproduce with no hope for a better life or a better life for their kids.
    There is no evidence of a "higher power", nor evidence that one is required.
    Reproduction is not a meaning.


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    Forum Sophomore jakesyl's Avatar
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    Then what is the meaning, what is the purpose to live, if there is nothing to live for? Should we live for enjoyment: but in this case we should all be reckless and in the words of a 21st century teenager "YOLO it".
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    Life is what you make of it.

    Cliche, sure, but apt. We're here simply because we came to be. If you want to dedicate your life to improving the condition of the human race, go for it. If you want to drink your liver into oblivion, rob candy stores, and chase tail, go for it.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Then what is the meaning, what is the purpose to live, if there is nothing to live for?
    Is there nothing to live for?
    Why is "meaning" required?
    Why is "purpose" required?

    Should we live for enjoyment: but in this case we should all be reckless and in the words of a 21st century teenager "YOLO it".
    And the consequences would be...?
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    the meaning of life is what each individual choses to make with their time on this earth.......not that difficult
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Reproduction is not a meaning.
    It is in the natural meaning of the word, I.e. non-linguistic.
    The only natural reason we have to exist is to continue, it is the way of all life. So to that degree life has meaning.
    However we as humans, being a sapient species can give it more purpose individually.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Reproduction is not a meaning.
    It is in the natural meaning of the word, I.e. non-linguistic.
    What is a non-linguistic meaning?
    The only natural reason we have to exist is to continue, it is the way of all life.
    That is not a reason. It is just a condition, or fact of existence.
    So to that degree life has meaning.
    No, it doesn't
    However we as humans, being a sapient species can give it more purpose individually.
    How does one go about giving something a purpose?
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce? Is it something else entirely, is there a meaning to life at all, after all animals have no meaning and they continue to reproduce with no hope for a better life or a better life for their kids.
    Animals have no meaning? If you suggest that the human race can achieve meaning, and the human race depends directly upon food/resources from other animals, do not other animals have meaning as well? You're also positing that no other animals are capable of producing similar thoughts "I.E, Why do dolphins engage sharks that are attacking humans? Why does a gorilla cradle a human toddler and protect it from other gorillas instead of taking the easy way and just letting it die?" Perhaps it's merely animals following some sort of instinct, or perhaps they are consciously weighing the options in the situation. Also, human beings are animals, don't be anthropocentric and try to apotheosis our species above other animals "Sorry if you were including human beings in (animals)". As for the meaning of life? You've got me. Could I contribute to humanity's understanding of nature? Sure, but in the long run my infinitesimal contributions are inconsequential to the point of meaningless. Could I save someone's life? Sure, but in a few seconds someone else will die. Could I have children? Sure, but they will likely lead average lives and also inherit numerous hereditary traits that make life difficult from me. Could I discover something amazing? Unlikely, but even if I did, someone else would have discovered it in a few years or less. In the large scheme, unless you somehow advance the human race several years further "something few...if any have ever done", the single individual contributes such a marginal amount as to be dismissible. So, what can we live for? For the enjoyment of consciousness. Jovial conversations with friends, to discover things for ourselves, to indulge in the things that human culture has to offer "arts, science, literature, etc".
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce?
    A somewhat disingenuous question, since what prompted this thread was your claim and my question in a different one:
    You: Why? Without life after death life has no purpose (and no the continuance of the species does not count as a reason to live.
    Me: (And your claim that "without life after death life has no purpose" is nonsense: what purpose is there to life if there's an afterlife?)


    How does an "afterlife" give meaning to this life?
    Please explain.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Life is what you want it to be and what you make out of it. Enjoy what you have but remember to try and be as respectful to others as you would want others to respect yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Reproduction is not a meaning.
    It is in the natural meaning of the word, I.e. non-linguistic.
    What is a non-linguistic meaning?
    Not relating to language, natural.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    The only natural reason we have to exist is to continue, it is the way of all life.
    That is not a reason. It is just a condition, or fact of existence.
    Exactly, I suppose I should have said natural condition, but if you wish me to kill for using the wrong word go ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So to that degree life has meaning.
    No, it doesn't
    It does a natural meaning, a non linguistic one. Sorry to repeat it. but it is clear it is above you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    However we as humans, being a sapient species can give it more purpose individually.
    How does one go about giving something a purpose?
    By living it.

    Why does there have to be such a profound meaning to life, humans have as much meaning to their life as any other animal on this planet.
    It's a human failing to look for meaning in everything. That kind of mentality comes from the arrogant religious belief that humans, are somehow special.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Then what is the meaning, what is the purpose to live
    Sex, puppies and chocolate (separately, not at the same time).

    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Should we live for enjoyment: but in this case we should all be reckless and in the words of a 21st century teenager "YOLO it".
    If you live too recklessly you tend to not live so long.
    But, yes - a little recklessness goes a long way.

    And, even if you believe in a god, you still only live once.
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    I don't believe you GIVE a purpose, I think you choose a purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't believe you GIVE a purpose, I think you choose a purpose.
    You choose, to live your life as you wish, and as such you give it purpose.
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    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Nicely summed up here I think....... (well someone had to )
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    "And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh" Nietzsche.
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    *laughing....I love it! Monty does it best! I wonder why my return key function does not work in this forum!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I wonder why my return key function does not work in this forum!
    I don't know, but I had to switch from Internet Explorer to Google Chrome to make my return key work.
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    Mahalo Harold 14370....I guess I shall type without then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce? Is it something else entirely, is there a meaning to life at all, after all animals have no meaning and they continue to reproduce with no hope for a better life or a better life for their kids.
    Life does not require a higher power, unless there is some mystery still to be explained as to how life got going from inanimate material, but this is very unlikely and belongs in a 'God of the Gaps' argument.
    There is no meaning to life for any species on earth and that includes us. Our bodies and even our minds have been built by hereditary molecules called genes for their survival and replication in the incredibly long process of evolution by natural selection.
    More specifically the mind has actually been programmed to give reproduction every possible chance. Humans are a bit different to other species because they have a highly developed consciousness and have evolved the option to cheat their genes to some extent and decide whether or not to reproduce. As far as I'm aware this choice is not available to any other animal.
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    Question, not to be disrespectful, but are you saying that life has no meaning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Question, not to be disrespectful, but are you saying that life has no meaning?
    Correct.
    Unless you decide on one for yourself.
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    One would hope that is the case. *S*
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Question, not to be disrespectful, but are you saying that life has no meaning?
    But we can still enjoy our walk in the sunshine in our brief moment of space-time. Make no mistake, we all came out of the darkness and sooner or later we will all return to it.
    If you are looking for meaning then please try and understand the process of evolution which has been taking place on earth for 3 to 4 billion years and has produced all the wonders of the natural world.
    By existing at all you have won the lottery of life, so what more do you need? Most people that could be people have never made it into this world. I was brought up as an only child and I find it hard to contemplate that I could have had siblings.
    Human bodies, like all other life forms, are just one solution (among billions of possibilities) that genes have found for their survival, and what's more they have built our brains and minds also. I find this is so much more satisfying than believing in the myths that surround religion.
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    By existing you have work to do to make the little insignificant part of your existence a tiny bit of matter on this earth, the sense of having purpose to your life. Having a purpose to your life I believe gives your life meaning.

    I am not talking god, or religion, I am talking about one little set of feet on the earth making a difference in someone's life.

    I believe my life has a meaning and a purpose, but it is my responsibility to make sure it makes that little set of feet in the sand happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Question, not to be disrespectful, but are you saying that life has no meaning?
    Correct.
    Unless you decide on one for yourself.
    hey babe , it looks like you are playing flute before ......... Humans are not meaningless entities in universe, and this is not easily understandable to everyone.
    Last edited by Precious part II; June 11th, 2013 at 09:24 AM. Reason: gramatical errors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Humans are not meaningless entities in universe
    Are we not?
    Support this please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Humans are not meaningless entities in universe
    Are we not?
    Support this please.
    prove this, prove that BLAH BLAH. and you make your every logic out of science, which is not true 100%. and every person is not scienceman. i cant prove my above statement, as i only believe it. i dont need logic. i feel happy and have my purpose of life, and dont live in darkness of uncertainty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Humans are not meaningless entities in universe
    Are we not?
    Support this please.
    prove this, prove that BLAH BLAH. and you make your every logic out of science, which is not true 100%. and every person is not scienceman. i cant prove my above statement, as i only believe it. i dont need logic. i feel happy and have my purpose of life, and dont live in darkness of uncertainty.
    Moderator Comment:This sub-forum deals with the Scientific Study of Religion. We respect your choice to live your life based upon faith. However, in this sub-forum we insist that the discussion revolve around logical and scientific approachs to and assessments of religion. Unless you wish to follows those requirements please cease from posting. If you do choose to follow those requirements your future posts will be most welcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    Humans are not meaningless entities in universe
    Are we not?
    Support this please.
    prove this, prove that BLAH BLAH. and you make your every logic out of science, which is not true 100%. and every person is not scienceman. i cant prove my above statement, as i only believe it. i dont need logic. i feel happy and have my purpose of life, and dont live in darkness of uncertainty.
    Moderator Comment:This sub-forum deals with the Scientific Study of Religion. We respect your choice to live your life based upon faith. However, in this sub-forum we insist that the discussion revolve around logical and scientific approachs to and assessments of religion. Unless you wish to follows those requirements please cease from posting. If you do choose to follow those requirements your future posts will be most welcome.
    how can anybody prove purpose of life?! Can you prove that "it is unscientific to have purpose of life". and dont get angry or tell me rules. i know them. i am not here to convert you or preach religion for you. i just put my opinion. and i am sorry for being unscientific.
    sir , what is problem with phdemon?
    Last edited by Precious part II; June 12th, 2013 at 10:23 AM.
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    What is the meaning of life?

    Hullmon I don't even know why there are 2 poles in pole dance competitions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Sorry, I'm out of troll food today...
    you dont know how respect other people opinions. thats a big characteristic of being a TROLL. look yourself in mirror
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Hullmon I don't even know why there are 2 poles in pole dance competitions.
    North and south?
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    This sort of Pole dance, then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=083lKbZIv0s
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    how can anybody prove purpose of life?! Can you prove that "it is unscientific to have purpose of life".
    I don't think anyone on this thread has said we have to prove anything. The duck asked you to support your claim that humans were not meaningless entities. He did not ask you to prove it. Providing support would mean giving evidence to support your view, or delivering a well reasoned argument. You did not do this. you offered an opinion as if it were proven fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    and dont get angry or tell me rules. i know them.
    I did not get angry. Indeed, I took care to show you respect. What makes you think I was angry?

    As for the rules, you say you know them. In that case why did you disregard them. My role as a moderator is to take action when someone breaks the rules. I presumed you did not know them and so I explained them to you. Since you know the rules please follow them in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    i just put my opinion. and i am sorry for being unscientific.
    Fine, but you did not present it as an opinion, but as a fact. That is what generated the other responses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    This sort of Pole dance, then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=083lKbZIv0s
    Not, exactly, what I had in mind.

    pole dancing vs dancing poles
    dancing poles reminds me of a scene from a movie that absolutely terrified me as a child.
    The sorcerers apprentice from fantasia

    The Sorcerer's Apprentice (Fantasia) - YouTube

    metaphore for the "global warming" debate?
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    I used to wonder about it, but lately I don't really see the point of searching for meaning. When I start scrutinizing every move I make or thing I do or stupid TV show or movie I watch in the context of a rather short lifespan I sink into a depression. You know how people, after watching a bad movie, will say I'll never get those 2 hours back? I have a really hard time relating to that, because I don't see how anything you decided to do or even fell into doing could be a complete waste. Any time when I'm alive and breathing is awesome and beautiful to me because it is so accidental. No time is ever wasted even if it wasn't enjoyed wholeheartedly. I guess I have this view because I live for analyzing things and fitting things into my giant framework of understanding. You can't always expect to be having a blast, to be entertained, to be full of a sense of purpose, because the world doesn't exist for us. It doesn't exist for anything. It just is.
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    or, not
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    I do not live in darkness or fear.. I may not.. no. 'I do not have a religious faith.'

    I do not need or want for one. I am atheist. Not nearly, not almost, 100%. true.

    Having the manor not to wish to offend I am very tolerant of those who do not share my view.

    Until this diminishes my freedom to say and do.. whatsoever pleases me..

    With the respect to not hinder the lives of those around me.

    It's not a unreasoned view. Like most atheists I have studied and enquired.

    I came to these conclusions myself and would suggest that a education of life has drawn me to this view..

    At times I will confess a deep disappointment in my fellow man. I am often appalled by actions reported and seen.

    But that the Human spirit will and often prevail is pleasing.

    I encourage this sort of enquiring question; " What is the Meaning of life... ( liff ).

    My answer is; The will to live., and live well.
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    two contestants....*FLASH*
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesyl View Post
    Does life require a higher power, or is it simply to reproduce? Is it something else entirely, is there a meaning to life at all, after all animals have no meaning and they continue to reproduce with no hope for a better life or a better life for their kids.
    i have two thought about life.
    1st is "Life is to expressing your self, go to your favorite filed and prove your self. But the question is again rises "why to prove your self?" and the answer is because it gives us confidence and reputation in life, but the reputation and confidence have no relation with death.
    really think for a sec life is haven for somebody and it may be worse for somebody, but the reality is everybody want to make it joyful. The question is rises again "why to enjoy in life?" and the answer is, enjoyment is the need of our brain. again question "Why enjoyment, why we want to enjoy and want to be calm. answer is because it is rule of nature. Think for just a second if human being hat calm then their will be war everytime and with in few days all the human civilization gone away.

    2nd thought:
    life is a struggle, but the most interesting thing is you will get the same award like other "Death". so let not talk about this death and just think for life that we have before death. then my definition will be same "Life is a struggle, you have to set a aim, and be ready to face all the challenges in your way.

    What i finally think:
    Life is to love, Life is to be calm, Life is to achieve something that is your desire, Life is like traveling through a highway.
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    Life is exploring the world and evolving without hurting the sentiments in public or private.
    believer in ahimsa
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    Life is exploring the world and evolving without hurting the sentiments in public or private.
    Rubbish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    Life is exploring the world and evolving without hurting the sentiments in public or private.
    Rubbish.
    this is life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precious part II View Post
    this is life
    Nonsense.
    Are plants alive?
    Do they explore the world?
    Do they have sentiments?
    What evidence do you have for your claims?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Then how to you explain mountain lions killing other animals if all lie is "Life is exploring the world and evolving without hurting the sentiments in public or private."?
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    what are you calling sentiments? I know what the dictionary says, but I have a feeling you are using an invented definition here.
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    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    what are you calling sentiments? I know what the dictionary says, but I have a feeling you are using an invented definition here.
    Good question. I missed that!
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    The meaning of life is to give it a meaning. It only depends on you , but after all why there has to be a meaning of life? For someone meaning of life is just to survive it, or to live it to the fullest, or to be happy all the time, or to be famous and rich, or to find a profound silence and harmony etc... It is all subjective.
    Last edited by HB3l1; August 5th, 2013 at 05:59 AM.
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    It's prema facie that the meaning of life is between our legs, to reproduce our collection of genes just like all other life on the planet (and others). Whatever we make of it beyond that is ours as societies and individuals to make.

    Considering moving this to philosophy.
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    The question " What is the meaning of life" Imposes the the question of 'Does life have any meaning' ?

    and that a clear and absolute NO. Can be the only answer except able.

    That what is. Is because it can be, and requires no reason or directive. No purpose or goal.

    So go and enjoy every nuance of it before something changes the perimeters and disqualifies life.
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    I've often thought if there were to be just one "meaning" to life...it would be to use your life to help others. To use your tragedies to console another. To use your joy to bring someone up. To use your money to feed the homeless. To use your time to be a good friend to someone. To use your talents to benefit others. I read a book that changed a lot in my life. It is titled, "A Man's Search for Meaning," by Viktor Frankl.He survived the holocaust and teaches that in even our darkest of moments...life has meaning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often thought if there were to be just one "meaning" to life...it would be to use your life to help others. To use your tragedies to console another. To use your joy to bring someone up. To use your money to feed the homeless. To use your time to be a good friend to someone. To use your talents to benefit others. I read a book that changed a lot in my life. It is titled, "A Man's Search for Meaning," by Viktor Frankl.He survived the holocaust and teaches that in even our darkest of moments...life has meaning.
    I must see if that book is available. Do you still have it?
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    My meaning to life?

    Doing the best that I can to fulfill my dreams.

    Watching my children flourish and grow, and knowing they are great people.

    Be as kind to people as I can be and helping when able and not wanting anything in return.

    Compassion.

    Knowing that I am loved, and that those I treasure know how loved they are.


    Meaning to life has many facets.

    For some, they are achievements in different areas of life. Home, work, love, children, success.
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    I can not see that you extract the same question as do I from those words; "What is the meaning of life.. ?"
    What you have so eloquently done is describe your goals of life.. aspirations and wish list.
    The question I feel requires of you a answer to why ? I would advise a return to understanding the words used.
    What, ~ makes it a question.
    Is ~ further defines the quest.
    The meaning, ~ implies a what, why, how, reason.
    of life ~ .. what is life ? to be of... Hmmm... confusing...
    I might look at the DNA molecule and ask it if we are just it's tool for reproduction.
    As much fun as it is. It's not likely to be the answer we seek., or want to hear.
    Life does not require a reason to.. Just a mechanism found to be tolerated in a environment tolerant of and resources to
    for fill the necessities of 'life'.. No reason is required for life is the conclusion I can not get past.
    It does because it can.
    That Astronomers have now a list of over one thousand Exo., planets. It seem very probable that given time we will find life..
    and we will ask again why, how, where... and even when.
    The meaning of life is because it can.
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    @ astromark

    Yes! I see what u mean now. And the "meaning" of the OP. I answered it subjectively.Suppose one believes in a Creator behind all of the universe? I do.

    I'm not speaking about religion, but rather I believe that a Creator is behind the scenes, and the meaning of "life" is yet to be understood. Perhaps, a topic for another thread and time.:-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Suppose one believes in a Creator behind all of the universe? I do.
    I'm not speaking about religion, but rather I believe that a Creator is behind the scenes
    So, essentially "religion" without the "organised" bit?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Suppose one believes in a Creator behind all of the universe? I do.I'm not speaking about religion, but rather I believe that a Creator is behind the scenes
    So, essentially "religion" without the "organised" bit?
    Well...not really a "bit," lol...But...yes. I only share this because if one believes in a Creator, the answer to what is the meaning of life...might coincide with that.Ok carry on
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Well...not really a "bit," lol...But...yes. I only share this because if one believes in a Creator, the answer to what is the meaning of life...might coincide with that.Ok carry on
    So, as far as you're concerned the "higher power" (mentioned in the OP) is there.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Well...not really a "bit," lol...But...yes. I only share this because if one believes in a Creator, the answer to what is the meaning of life...might coincide with that.Ok carry on
    So, as far as you're concerned the "higher power" (mentioned in the OP) is there.
    Of course, I can't prove this...but it is a belief I have. I think science and faith can work together or "live" together nicely...From a scientific perspective, I don't believe the universe is uncaused. What caused the Big Bang?We only have information based on a few seconds "after" the BB happened.Obviously, scientists can speculate but without certainty.I speculate there was/is a Creator, but likewise without certainty. (without evidence to test my belief, I mean)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often thought if there were to be just one "meaning" to life...it would be to use your life to help others. To use your tragedies to console another. To use your joy to bring someone up. To use your money to feed the homeless. To use your time to be a good friend to someone. To use your talents to benefit others. I read a book that changed a lot in my life. It is titled, "A Man's Search for Meaning," by Viktor Frankl.He survived the holocaust and teaches that in even our darkest of moments...life has meaning.
    I must see if that book is available. Do you still have it?
    Yes, check amazon.com... It's an unforgettable book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Well...not really a "bit," lol...But...yes. I only share this because if one believes in a Creator, the answer to what is the meaning of life...might coincide with that.Ok carry on
    So, as far as you're concerned the "higher power" (mentioned in the OP) is there.
    I speculate there was/is a Creator, but likewise without certainty. (without evidence to test my belief, I mean)
    So disregarding you not being able to prove a creator, how do you even justify belief in one, it is clearly nonsensical. Think about it!
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Probably sounds that way. LolBut, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.This isn't the reason I believe...faith is subjective.I don't have an interest here to convince anyone of this; it just is something I attach to the original question of the thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I think science and faith can work together or "live" together nicely.
    Only if faith is content on squeezing into ever smaller gaps...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Probably sounds that way. LolBut, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.This isn't the reason I believe...faith is subjective.I don't have an interest here to convince anyone of this; it just is something I attach to the original question of the thread.
    Why? Discomfort with the real answers as the evidence suggest? Too egocentric to admit humans aren't special? Too unwilling to separate the feelings for our loved ones from the superstitious they cling to? All those were reasons I once harbored during my transition from Catholicism to rationalism.
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    cause and effect which causes another effect which causes another effect...................etc...ad infinitum

    many(most?) causes are so minor, and the effects occur over such long timespans as to make linking cause to effect somewhat difficult/problematic.
    but
    know that everything in nature and in your own mind follows the cause and effect rule without fail.
    ..........
    (but, then again, I could be wrong)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Probably sounds that way. LolBut, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.This isn't the reason I believe...faith is subjective.I don't have an interest here to convince anyone of this; it just is something I attach to the original question of the thread.
    Why? Discomfort with the real answers as the evidence suggest? Too egocentric to admit humans aren't special? Too unwilling to separate the feelings for our loved ones from the superstitious they cling to? All those were reasons I once harbored during my transition from Catholicism to rationalism.
    Well, we are two different people...what led you to or away from faith is your own decision.Respectfully, Catholicism (and I grew up in that religion too) isn't what drives the bus for me.What drives my faith is a number of things, but one is...why can't science and faith coexist?If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical? It is not scientifically provable but it is not "non sense." But, I'm not a zealot out to change minds.Faith is a path that is personal and it makes sense in my life. I do see the chaos and lies brought about by organized religion. But that is a man made problem.Not enough hours in the day to explain all of this I guess. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical?
    Because it is not based in logic.

    Logic tells us that there is nothing which supports a creator. The reason science struggles to accept a religious mindset (though I do believe religious people can function in a scientific environment, as I've said before) is because faith requires that you accept a fundamental ideology in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You're violating a basic principle of science by accepting God.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    why can't science and faith coexist?
    Because science requires evidence.
    Faith relies on there being none.

    If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical?
    Because the belief in a creator is itself illogical.
    Everything predicated on an unsupported belief is illogical.

    (For given values of "logic").
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    Is there really any difference between assuming that we had a creator, or assuming that all of our shared co-evolutionary biom is the result of random events?

    How are these not alike?
    Can either be proven? or disproven?

    (defining a "creator" remains problematic. Words are shadows of expressions and thoughts on a good day.
    We could use GOD TAO YHWH or the great driving wheel of the universe-and always come up short.)

    Creation--(meaning all of the real world universe, etc...,) however becomes almost manageable-----calls for a unified theory of everything?
    and for understanding that "creation" science is a very valuable tool.

    (justapassingthought)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Is there really any difference between assuming that we had a creator, or assuming that all of our shared co-evolutionary biom is the result of random events?
    Inasmuch as there's nothing at all to indicate there's a creator while "random events" are viewable every day?
    (Oh, and I think you mean biome, despite it being the wrong term anyway).

    and for understanding that "creation" science is a very valuable tool.
    There is no such thing as "creation science".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    There is no such thing as "creation science".
    As much as I find his post tedious to read, I think sculptor meant it the following way.

    "and for understanding that "creation"; science is a very valuable tool."

    @ sculptor, I'd like to ask if English is your first language. Because, if it isn't, it may explain a lot as to why your posts are written the way they are.
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    Ah, that's a possibilty.
    On re-reading I see that could well be what he meant.
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    I don't care to get into any real depth about my faith. :/


    I'm aware of how it (my beliefs) sounds; I love science and think pragmatically as well.

    I just don't care to debate my beliefs. I know all the rebuttals; I have four dear friends who are atheists and we discuss it a lot.They accept me for me and don't judge me based on my faith beliefs. At the end of the day, you will post something then I will then you will...it's a rather tiring game of intellectual checkers with no winner. Lol

    That's all I hope for....Going to stick with the science math and "fun" threads ...me thinks.
    Last edited by wegs; August 8th, 2013 at 02:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I can not see that you extract the same question as do I from those words; "What is the meaning of life.. ?"
    What you have so eloquently done is describe your goals of life.. aspirations and wish list.
    The question I feel requires of you a answer to why ? I would advise a return to understanding the words used.
    What, ~ makes it a question.
    Is ~ further defines the quest.
    The meaning, ~ implies a what, why, how, reason.
    of life ~ .. what is life ? to be of... Hmmm... confusing...
    I might look at the DNA molecule and ask it if we are just it's tool for reproduction.
    As much fun as it is. It's not likely to be the answer we seek., or want to hear.
    Life does not require a reason to.. Just a mechanism found to be tolerated in a environment tolerant of and resources to
    for fill the necessities of 'life'.. No reason is required for life is the conclusion I can not get past.
    It does because it can.
    That Astronomers have now a list of over one thousand Exo., planets. It seem very probable that given time we will find life..
    and we will ask again why, how, where... and even when.
    The meaning of life is because it can.
    Yes, I did approach this from a different perspective.

    As I read the other replies, I noticed that others approached the question differently.

    I understand your answer also. Thank you.
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    If life is so prevalent in the cosmos then I think it kind of lessens the importance of placing some type of meaning to life, knowing that we are as common as ants at a picnic.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    If life is so prevalent in the cosmos then I think it kind of lessens the importance of placing some type of meaning to life, knowing that we are as common as ants at a picnic.
    Two things. 1. We don't know how abundant life is within the universe. 2. I don't see how that influences purpose. It doesn't matter if every galaxy has 1,000 sentient civilizations, we won't cross cultures with them at any point, and therefore they mean nothing to us. I believe our species is too infinitesimal in comparison to the size of even just our galaxy to have any ultimate purpose. Throw in our inevitable extinction and our grasp on any sort of cosmic purpose loosens to slippage. You can live for either A: Assisting mankind. B: Beer and titties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Well, we are two different people...what led you to or away from faith is your own decision.
    I didn't make a decision to struggle with those things--they were consequences of leaving faith behind and being open with myself and my family. In many experience talking with others who've drifted way, they were rather common as well.

    You are of course right, that each person, will have their own journey, or perhaps you just haven't crossed those paths yet--the later seems rather likely given your post indicate you're still clinging to your old views; or unwilling to face the answer to your question about "why cant' science and faith coexist." Your own befuddlement to that question suggest as much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Well, we are two different people...what led you to or away from faith is your own decision.
    I didn't make a decision to struggle with those things--they were consequences of leaving faith behind and being open with myself and my family. In many experience talking with others who've drifted way, they were rather common as well.

    You are of course right, that each person, will have their own journey, or perhaps you just haven't crossed those paths yet--the later seems rather likely given your post indicate you're still clinging to your old views; or unwilling to face the answer to your question about "why cant' science and faith coexist." Your own befuddlement to that question suggest as much.
    I want you to know...for whatever it is worth...that I don't dismiss this. I care about where people are coming from. I'm very open minded. I have had to reconcile a lot of 'truths' against...non truths. For example, Genesis, I feel is not a literal story. (adam and eve) Then, can we can say...well what else isn't?

    I question a lot. I have come to terms with my faith not being attached to any religion, anymore.
    Everyone goes through a journey of sorts...that is so true.

    And what you say here, I take to heart. I'm not a very ....um...good debater. lol I don't like conflict. Or debate. I don't know why. It isn't so much the topic of faith, it is more having to 'defend' a position...

    So, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it. lol
    But, I just wanted to show a different perpsective, to the original question posted.

    thank you for taking the time to write back.
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    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
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    As I too can see the tortured soul 'Wigs' and find some amusement at the last part of that post..
    I post, you post and on it goes... Yes, but you did come here.. and I do see the fun of it.
    Nothing I say should be taken as so serious as to drive anyone away.. That would not be my intention.
    I hope to not be the only person who comes here for the conversations...
    As for the meaning of... I pull myself up right there as it seems to imply that there might be a meaning.
    I reject that very notion.
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  83. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    If life is so prevalent in the cosmos then I think it kind of lessens the importance of placing some type of meaning to life, knowing that we are as common as ants at a picnic.
    Two things. 1. We don't know how abundant life is within the universe. 2. I don't see how that influences purpose. It doesn't matter if every galaxy has 1,000 sentient civilizations, we won't cross cultures with them at any point, and therefore they mean nothing to us. I believe our species is too infinitesimal in comparison to the size of even just our galaxy to have any ultimate purpose. Throw in our inevitable extinction and our grasp on any sort of cosmic purpose loosens to slippage. You can live for either A: Assisting mankind. B: Beer and titties.
    I only said what I did because I really can't see much of any meaning to life at all. Just thought I'd pretend to appear cultured & civilized. B is a good choice, however I've managed to somehow stop drinking booze altogether since my cancer scare last year and I tell ya, the second part of choice B seems even more outstanding & available now. So if my life were to have a meaning then I would say that because I only have one, that it's to experience the reality of the universe sober. More disposable income and women seem to like guys who don't slobber all over them.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  84. #83  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    As I too can see the tortured soul 'Wigs' and find some amusement at the last part of that post..I post, you post and on it goes... Yes, but you did come here.. and I do see the fun of it.Nothing I say should be taken as so serious as to drive anyone away.. That would not be my intention.I hope to not be the only person who comes here for the conversations... As for the meaning of... I pull myself up right there as it seems to imply that there might be a meaning.I reject that very notion.
    I like this. :-)It made me smile...thank you.Lol Nothing you said bothered me. At the end of the day, we are all works in progress.
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  85. #84  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    You can live for either A: Assisting mankind. B: Beer and titties.
    You seem to be assuming that we're all straight males or gay females.
    Regardless, neither choice sounds particularly appealing given the unstated options...

    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    For example, Genesis, I feel is not a literal story
    Hmm, the universe being formed by a spoken word, light when there's no stars, a talking snake, a woman being made out of a man's rib...
    What was your first clue that it may not be literal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    You can live for either A: Assisting mankind. B: Beer and titties.
    You seem to be assuming that we're all straight males or gay females.
    Regardless, neither choice sounds particularly appealing given the unstated options...

    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    For example, Genesis, I feel is not a literal story
    Hmm, the universe being formed by a spoken word, light when there's no stars, a talking snake, a woman being made out of a man's rib...
    What was your first clue that it may not be literal?
    The apple.
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  87. #86  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Probably sounds that way. Lol
    It does most certainly.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    But, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.
    Ah but you do; Your creator.
    However you should just say 1 don't know, adding a god just makes it more complicated, it expands the question base, not answer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    why can't science and faith coexist?
    Because the former is factual and the latter fantasy, the two are mutually exclusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical?
    Because you are assigning a creator, without assigning his creator, and his creator etc.... You are assigning an uncaused cause as the cause of the universe. Which is nonsensical.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is not scientifically provable but it is not "non sense."
    Oh yes it is. Do try and think about it. Please!

    And I'm not judging you for holding those beliefs, All I suggest you do is not tell anyone other than another believer, else you will feel like you are being judge (yet you are not) As was said by Adelady “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.” - Ben Goldacre. So nobody is trying to reason you out of your position they are trying to understand it. It is a quandary to us.

    You are the only person who can change your mind, not us.
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    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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  88. #87  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    You can live for either A: Assisting mankind. B: Beer and titties.
    You seem to be assuming that we're all straight males or gay females.Regardless, neither choice sounds particularly appealing given the unstated options...
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    For example, Genesis, I feel is not a literal story
    Hmm, the universe being formed by a spoken word, light when there's no stars, a talking snake, a woman being made out of a man's rib...What was your first clue that it may not be literal?
    Lol You know, it isn't that I had thought it was literal all of my life, it was more that I didn't want to look under the hood of the car so to speak, to get to the real problem. The real problem being why was/is this story being "passed off" as though it is literal?:/I know the reason ...but, that to me is probably more the truth if it than ppl taking the story as literal. That, is probably the hardest of the ''truths'' to accept, when starting to look at your faith or religion, closer. You have to come to terms with, that an entire lifetime of attending church, and believing a particular dogma, was built on fabrications and lies. That is harder to 'accept' than the uncovering of the lie, itself, if this makes sense. I said, I wasn't going to talk about this...hmmm...but here I am. lol I've done a lot of reading on Darwin, and how he 'systematically' went through first, the OT, and renounced it, and then the NT. He was a believer for a long time. He studied the faith during his college years. It was comforting to read that he didn't just wake up one day and tell himself...'this is bs.' He really systematically approached the bible, and his religion, to see if what he was feeling, matched up with the facts.
    Last edited by wegs; August 9th, 2013 at 07:30 AM.
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  89. #88  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Probably sounds that way. Lol
    It does most certainly.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    But, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.
    Ah but you do; Your creator.
    However you should just say 1 don't know, adding a god just makes it more complicated, it expands the question base, not answer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    why can't science and faith coexist?
    Because the former is factual and the latter fantasy, the two are mutually exclusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical?
    Because you are assigning a creator, without assigning his creator, and his creator etc.... You are assigning an uncaused cause as the cause of the universe. Which is nonsensical.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is not scientifically provable but it is not "non sense."
    Oh yes it is. Do try and think about it. Please!

    And I'm not judging you for holding those beliefs, All I suggest you do is not tell anyone other than another believer, else you will feel like you are being judge (yet you are not) As was said by Adelady “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.” - Ben Goldacre. So nobody is trying to reason you out of your position they are trying to understand it. It is a quandary to us.

    You are the only person who can change your mind, not us.
    I will come back to this later, as you bring up insightful points. And I appreciate the dialogue. Yesterday, I commented that I'm not a good debater. I think what I meant was that I'm not comfortable, debating. lol On any topic. I think that is something that I need to change, because 'running away' from tough subjects, even though I know how to discuss them...isn't the answer, and it doesn't solve anything. Thank you for your comment, I look forward to replying later.
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  90. #89  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    What was your first clue that it may not be literal?
    For me it was the notion that the people of the time could explain the creation of all existence, but thought headaches were caused by demons.
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    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  91. #90  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Probably sounds that way. Lol
    It does most certainly.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    But, I don't believe there is an "uncaused" reason behind the universe.
    Ah but you do; Your creator.
    However you should just say 1 don't know, adding a god just makes it more complicated, it expands the question base, not answer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    why can't science and faith coexist?
    Because the former is factual and the latter fantasy, the two are mutually exclusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If I believe that a Creator used evolution as a catalyst for everything...why is this illogical?
    Because you are assigning a creator, without assigning his creator, and his creator etc.... You are assigning an uncaused cause as the cause of the universe. Which is nonsensical.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is not scientifically provable but it is not "non sense."
    Oh yes it is. Do try and think about it. Please!

    And I'm not judging you for holding those beliefs, All I suggest you do is not tell anyone other than another believer, else you will feel like you are being judge (yet you are not) As was said by Adelady “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.” - Ben Goldacre. So nobody is trying to reason you out of your position they are trying to understand it. It is a quandary to us.

    You are the only person who can change your mind, not us.
    I've had various conversations over the years, up to recent times, with atheists, and not a one ever said...'you are assigning a cause to something uncaused.' key words being 'you are assigning.' Honestly, I have never heard of this, before. I will say that it gives me entirely new perspective, in a potentially positive way. At least in a way, I've never pondered. I believe for many, faith is a personal thing. And to 'prove' one's faith and the logical reasons behind it, are not possible. But, faith is taking perhaps a leap of 'trust' despite it being/seeming illogical, that what you may believe, could possibly be true. It is not enough for some, but for some, it is. That is just my personal 'take' on faith, of course, a nutshell version. lol I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts on this; you've said something no one else has...or at least not phrased as such. Definitely given me food for thought.
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  92. #91  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Is there really any difference between assuming that we had a creator, or assuming that all of our shared co-evolutionary biom is the result of random events?
    Inasmuch as there's nothing at all to indicate there's a creator while "random events" are viewable every day?
    (Oh, and I think you mean biome, despite it being the wrong term anyway).

    and for understanding that "creation" science is a very valuable tool.
    There is no such thing as "creation science".
    Actually, dywyddyw, biom is commonly used in american(english)
    how so the wrong phrase?
    You might gain if you could divorce concepts like "creation" from your distaste for all things religious. (justathought)

    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    There is no such thing as "creation science".
    As much as I find his post tedious to read, I think sculptor meant it the following way.

    "and for understanding that "creation"; science is a very valuable tool."

    @ sculptor, I'd like to ask if English is your first language. Because, if it isn't, it may explain a lot as to why your posts are written the way they are.
    American("english") is my only language-----but, I do not always think in language----mostly, I think in pattern, then; images, sensations, motion, etc... more often than in the pattern of the language. (I've actually spent a fair amount of time trying to rid my thoughts of the inherent limitations imposed by language)Sometimes, I trip all over my concepts trying to find the correct(most appropriate) phrase which would accurately offer the recipient the insites gained from my pattern recognition. (when I dream there is almost no language involved)
    When I was a lad, my mother set a 5 inch thick unabridged dictionary down in front of me and
    instructed "read this" so, I have a reasonable vocabulary, but ofttimes, the pattern and semantics of the language seem alien to me. And, then, my spelling really sux, and microsoft spell check really sucks on this site.

    Thanks for seeing beyond my descriptor limitations.
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  93. #92  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Actually, dywyddyw, biom is commonly used in american(english)
    Citation please.
    I Googled - even despite the overwhelming Americanisation of the intertubes entering the word "biom" ONLY gave references to "biome".

    how so the wrong phrase?
    It's quite simple (as noted in that link) - Biomes are climatically and geographically defined as similar climatic conditions on the Earth

    You might gain if you could divorce concepts like "creation" from your distaste for all things religious. (justathought)
    Ah, you missed. I have a distaste for falsehoods.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  94. #93  
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    Yes, of course Biom references Biome ( a brother from another mother)

    interestingly, my 1968 websters unabridged does not have "biom", nor "biome" as a stand alone word, nor does the 1950 version which my mother set in front of me almost 60 years ago--------they both have biomagnetic, and biometric, citing the root as "bio"---also, no "biosphere" which may be a better word for "our shared co-evolutionary biosphere" but "biom" seemed to offer a better flow to the phrase.............(does this really bug you? or are you just picking nits? (if so, then thanx for the grooming)(if it really makes you feel better, I'll try'n remember to include the 'e')

    Yes---------on the earth---and i would add, within the climate(s) on the earth------ "similar"---shared dna similar enough>

    as/re falshoods
    the phrase: "Eye of the beholder" comes to mind.....
    A salesman once told me: "I have an incredible offer for you!" I said, "Incredible?": "Well, thanx for the advance warning,......we're done here".
    (you shoulda seen the look on his bewildered face)

    "Super interglacials" were "incredible" 3 short years ago. Things change.
    The only constant is change.
    How can the center hold when there are no edges?

    I am always aware that what I do not know far exceeds what "I do know"......so, I eschew negative limiters.(while maintaining silent rephrasing to more closely fit my thought patterns)

    eg
    When anyone says/communicates "GOD" or "the Creator", part of my thought goes to the christian and abrahamic concepts famed in song and story and pictures too...part of me seeks to an understanding of the intent of the person communicating that word, while another part of me rephrases to "proclivity(or tendency) towards pattern"-------and, I feel no conflict, just different perspective(s).

    but, then again, I am prejudiced in/by(?) my personnal proclivity toward seeing pattern as a means of understanding.

    If you head south from here in central Iowa, what we call a bucket, suddenly becomes a pail. But, the intent remains the same.

    (I ain't completely confused yet, but I am working on it)
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  95. #94  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Yes, of course Biom references Biome ( a brother from another mother)
    No, what I meant was that there is NO page/ definition for the word "biom" ALL links go straight to "biome".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  96. #95  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    American("english") is my only language-----but, I do not always think in language----mostly, I think in pattern, then; images, sensations, motion, etc... more often than in the pattern of the language. (I've actually spent a fair amount of time trying to rid my thoughts of the inherent limitations imposed by language)Sometimes, I trip all over my concepts trying to find the correct(most appropriate) phrase which would accurately offer the recipient the insites gained from my pattern recognition. (when I dream there is almost no language involved)

    Thanks for seeing beyond my descriptor limitations.
    It isn't my place to interfere with how you wish to realign your thought patterns for inner monologue, but if your efforts stands in the way of an effective two-way communication (you and us), perhaps it might be better to switch back to old self when engaging us in conversation. Just a suggestion.
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  97. #96  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    American("english") is my only language-----but, I do not always think in language----mostly, I think in pattern, then; images, sensations, motion, etc... more often than in the pattern of the language. (I've actually spent a fair amount of time trying to rid my thoughts of the inherent limitations imposed by language)Sometimes, I trip all over my concepts trying to find the correct(most appropriate) phrase which would accurately offer the recipient the insites gained from my pattern recognition. (when I dream there is almost no language involved)

    Thanks for seeing beyond my descriptor limitations.
    It isn't my place to interfere with how you wish to realign your thought patterns for inner monologue, but if your efforts stands in the way of an effective two-way communication (you and us), perhaps it might be better to switch back to old self when engaging us in conversation. Just a suggestion.
    I do try dad
    and, upon occasion, have been said to have seemed quite lucid, but 'tain't no constant thing (yet?)
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  98. #97  
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    Foolish answers, simple question. Life exists because life was created, the big bang was created in time(future) by life (humans possibly) so that life can be made better. Every strand of time has to go through the exact same thing that us humans and every other living thing in the universe. Imagine the universe in 4000 years time where the big bang has been created by man and it is used as an unlimited amount of energy so that anything can be done in life, everything we're talking about now seems like nothing and we are considered stupid just as we consider those who live 2000 years to be lesser as well even though it is all so simple as modern technology. My granddad has a hard time understanding a touch screen phone imagine what it's going to be like in even 200 years compared to what modern tools and equipment is like now.
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    Our, ( that's yours and mine ) thought patterns are our's. This is a good thing.
    I do like the way 'Sculptor' phrases the written words. It is not compelling to except all as true,
    As I came to the English language later in my life I often reach for explanations of a dictionaries text to get me through...
    I am in full agreement with the Genius Duck.. and fall woefully short of a spell check mentality..
    Often in the discussions of belief doctrines answering the question is simply redirected to a question of faith
    and unquestioning the words as understood by some group other than yourself.
    I came to this conclusion because I was ejected and rejected from a bible study group
    because I asked too many questions. I learned to trust my own process. Question, and test.
    I call this science and the scientific method.
    As a almost mischief and often not well understood method of understanding the world I live in..
    I demand a better explanation than often offered. I will not believe. A want for a greater scrutiny than faith.
    Reading the words as I struggle to see what I think is being said is a result of many years of conditioned thinking.
    It would be a boring world if we all were to think the same., but is it good that we are so different ?
    I have made the same observation of others as myself.. That a surprising number of people go through life without ever questioning what they have been told. I have issues with that.
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  100. #99  
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    It is all science though, maths english and everything exists for us now like it does because we are yet to create the universe. Without myself thinking like it now and you thinking like you do now it would not have happened but obviously it does because we are thinking like that in the first place, it doesn't matter when it happens for us how was the universe which is infinite created from nothing? It wasn't the only thing that doesn't matter because it isn't measured is time. I feel the same but me being who i am stay with thoughts that make me feel good and mean the most to me because that's the way i am. I do not see what you mean by agreeing with the Genius Duck because he does not seem to make his own points simply play it safe and try to pick holes in others who are proud to air their own beliefs to others because the feel that's what they have to do. Positive and negative, ying and yang, it is philosophy but in science it is the way everything works so we can experience and create life i think in the first place.
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  101. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Yes, of course Biom references Biome ( a brother from another mother)
    No, what I meant was that there is NO page/ definition for the word "biom" ALL links go straight to "biome".
    the internet ain't "the word of god"
    on a good day it seems an idiot savant
    take it with a grain

    see: "The computerized model BIOM" (from Bolivia---another "american" nation)
    Redirect Notice

    and if you know what I mean when I use the word:
    Does the 'e' really matter?
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