Thread: Life: Can We Live Forever?

This is something I personal find fascinating; the idea that we could potential live indefinitely. Up until a few years ago this was a subject that I thought very little about. Although while conversing with a close friend of mind on a similar subject, second lives, he opened me up to a very interesting view on the matter.

This friend of mine is a bit on the spiritual side and a very strongly believe we all have past lives. He argues that we all have the ability to be conscious of these past lives and that experience such as deja-vu are far from coincidences. He believes that our memories and our thoughts are transmitted into some manner of universal stream of data working in a very similar manner to that of wireless communication networks. He believes this data is around us constantly, being the main cause of anomalies such as interference on radios or similar communication devices. And, when new people are born this data is transmitted unto the infant brain.

Sounds very crazy and very far fetched. I argue with him how does this data from our memories become transmitted and where are you basing your argument for the existence of this so-called 'universal data stream' that apparently holds all the collective memories of every person who ever lived. And, why does that data become so degraded to the point that when it is reinstated into the brain of an infant the person can only remember things like a smell or a certain building or place? and why they can't remember everything about themselves as if they simply went to bed on Monday and woke up again on Tuesday?

Then I read a very interesting science article on the study of our brains. The main goal of the study was to better understand the processes our brain goes through while conversing, thinking and storing memories. In all, the study showed that our brains act differently and send different signals when conversing and when thinking; the processes for conversing being more active as the brain needs to process its thoughts into words and collect the data from the ears and process that to understand what is going on. However, the most interesting thing about the study is what it showed was going on when we sleep. When we sleep our brains fire signals as if it was transmitting data; a process closely mimicking the processes our brains undergo when conversing. Where is it transmitting this data?

The study does not detail what is actually happening during these processes as it is not fully understood. The widely accepted belief is that this is indicating that our brain is taking the data it has stored in its collective or short term memory banks and is filing it away in the deeper recesses of the brain's long term memory. Although there have been other studies done to figure out this very same function. We understand how the brain 'normally' stores memories however this studies findings showed the brain working in a different manner; as if conversing and not storing. Of course we cannot make any true dictations as to what the brain is doing in this function but it does raise curiosity: are we transmitting data as we sleep to an external hub?

I am not backing my friend's theory of a 'universal data stream' however I raise the question as to can we potentially capture this supposedly transmitted data? If so, just think of what great scientific advancements and possibilities lay in wait... If we could capture this data and store it one some sort of device we could potentially 'download' for lack of a better word, this data onto a newborn; or better yet a toddler or 2 to 3 years old. Just imagine; at the young developmental age when a child is just beginning to understand speech you implement the stored memories of an already developed brain. Of course this leads to a whole world of political and ethical issues as to whether or not implementing a person with another person's thoughts is moral.

Thus, perhaps, if in the far future we have advanced to the point of creating hybrid human-like cyborgs, this would be much more a possibility.

Thoughts? I am very interested.

Cheers,

Nothing lasts forever.

Could we live substantially longer with technological augmentations to our biological systems? Probably.

Can we live forever, yes, eventually it would be possible to live for billions of years (maybe not forever unless we can go to another universe).
We might be able to extract a cell, put it in a test tube, and insure that this cell functions for a long time.
Theres a nuance between life and sentience, personally, I would prefer sentience even non living data-in-matrix "sentience" over brain-dead kept alive like a plant "life".


As for brain emissions, what you have to consider, is that even the image that reaches your retina is meaningless unless the brain has structures to interpret it, its the structure of the brain that associates the meaningless jumble of light frequencies into what is experienced as sight, but emissions from a brain are even more meaningless because outside sci-fi make believe they would most likely not form a pattern that matches your thoughts at least nothing coherent, unless you have sensors and computers to analyse and structure the data, emitted waves out of the brain into nature just like that would be imo meaningless, or trigger different thoughts depending on what (already existing) structures are triggered in the other persons brain.

Life: Can We Live Forever?

I would think that something will kill everyone , someday, someway. Even if you could cure every way to die that your body can find there's always accidents, murders, suicides and other things like snake bites and the like that will kill you. So I really wouldn't want to "live forever" myself but they seem to keep trying to find ways to do so. I just do not understand why anyone would want to do so.

hi! u r post is very innovative! i've some information about this, i dont know is it false or true. i'd heard the news that, a scientist in pune, Maharashtra, India, recorded the conversations of the pandavas and kauravas . he made a device to record those. He also thought that if we speak, the sound waves travel through a medium, that is air, so, all the conversations must be there , somewhere trapped in the air, so he made a device which can capture those conversations present in air by using modern telecommunication tools.

Originally Posted by Beyondthought

This friend of mine is a bit on the spiritual side and a very strongly believe we all have past lives. He argues that we all have the ability to be conscious of these past lives and that experience such as deja-vu are far from coincidences. He believes that our memories and our thoughts are transmitted into some manner of universal stream of data working in a very similar manner to that of wireless communication networks. He believes this data is around us constantly, being the main cause of anomalies such as interference on radios or similar communication devices. And, when new people are born this data is transmitted unto the infant brain.

The world is full of cranks.

Originally Posted by pratiksha

hi! u r post is very innovative! i've some information about this, i dont know is it false or true. i'd heard the news that, a scientist in pune, Maharashtra, India, recorded the conversations of the pandavas and kauravas . he made a device to record those. He also thought that if we speak, the sound waves travel through a medium, that is air, so, all the conversations must be there , somewhere trapped in the air, so he made a device which can capture those conversations present in air by using modern telecommunication tools.

See previous comment.

i'd heard the news that, a scientist in pune, Maharashtra, India, recorded the conversations of the pandavas and kauravas

Thankfully real scientists cannot do this so I'm thinking he isn't a real scientist but only a con man.

A real scientist wouldn't assume - if we speak, the sound waves travel through a medium, that is air, so, all the conversations must be there , somewhere trapped in the air,
It's self-evident that the assumption is false.

My husband was recently telling me that some people think that the walls in a house record all the words that were said in the house. I know that is the opposite of science, but it seems that the ideas come from a related source. I'm mentioning this as someone who is interested in culture and mythology.

My walls would have a lot of swear words embedded in them...

My walls are padded!

Originally Posted by Alec Bing

My husband was recently telling me that some people think that the walls in a house record all the words that were said in the house.

Now wouldn't THAT make life somewhat simpler for all the intelligence agencies around the world...

Uhm I agree with your friend more or less. I think that we do live forever. Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy... It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body and just goes into another form... Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life...
Back to our subject: It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures...
I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.
Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved, so it sustains your friend`s theory.
Now, going against: deja-vu experiences can be kind-of explained scientifically: if you ever saw a picture, for 1 sec only, somewhere, it can stay in your brain even tho you are not conscious of it`s existance, and if you ever go in that place, you can have a deja-vu.

Originally Posted by missarane

I think that we do live forever.

Why?

Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy.

Why do you think this?

It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body and just goes into another form.

What's a "spirit"?

Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life.

Previous life?

It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures.

Source please. I'm not entirely sure it's been "proven".

I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.

And the ONLY way that could happen is because of "electromagnetic field interaction", right?
No.

Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved

Please, don't get your "science" from pop-science TV documentaries. It most certainly has NOT been proved that there is a "universal consciousness" (or conscience - but I don't think that's what you meant).

wtf, so ppl suffer on purpose according to this? yeah, it's a sound theory for the minority living off of them in wealth.

What?

Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life...

that, amongst others.

I think that we do live forever.
Why?

Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy.

Why do you think this?
Because. This is an answer I`m not going to give, not because I do not have the arguments for that, but I do not find it necessary to expose my faith on forum on my first day here.

It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body and just goes into another form.

What's a "spirit"?

Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life.

Previous life?
Yups.

It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures.

Source please. I'm not entirely sure it's been "proven".
I`ll look into it and post it as soon as possible, it`s 4:30 AM in my country and I`m really tired.

I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.

And the ONLY way that could happen is because of "electromagnetic field interaction", right?
No.
Ok, please tell me how else.

Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved

Please, don't get your "science" from pop-science TV documentaries. It most certainly has NOT been proved that there is a "universal consciousness" (or conscience - but I don't think that's what you meant).

Oh well, call me stupid, but I believe in it. Why? Because.

Originally Posted by missarane

Because. This is an answer I`m not going to give, not because I do not have the arguments for that, but I do not find it necessary to expose my faith on forum on my first day here.

Ah, okay. Faith. Not knowledge or fact.

Previous life?
Yups.

Er, no.

I`ll look into it and post it as soon as possible, it`s 4:30 AM in my country and I`m really tired.

OK.

Ok, please tell me how else.

Body language. Pheromones. Eye contact, or lack of. Etc.

Oh well, call me stupid, but I believe in it. Why? Because.

Don't. You learn more that way.

it's funny that all the ppl who claim they lived before either were or knew a known historical figure, yet, more than 50% of world population live in poverty. did that informational energy got split on more than one average person? wtf you believe in?

I`ll go to sleep after this post yet:
1. Body language: Im pretty sure nothing obvious changes into your body language while you`re walking by a scary dog...
2. I`m not a biology-chem expert but I think it takes more than 5 seconds for chemical reactions that would make the dog feel your fear
3. how many times have you walked by a dog and made eye contact?

No historical people were poor?
Damn, I should'a been born years ago.

Originally Posted by missarane

I`ll go to sleep after this post yet:
1. Body language: Im pretty sure nothing obvious changes into your body language while you`re walking by a scary dog...

Does it not?
You don't approach it.
You don't advance toward it saying "Wow! Nice dog".
You tend to sidle past...

2. I`m not a biology-chem expert but I think it takes more than 5 seconds for chemical reactions that would make the dog feel your fear

So if you're not an expert why do think it takes more than 5 seconds?
Your heart rate goes up, respiration increases, you start to sweat... Dogs have a phenomenal sense of smell.

3. how many times have you walked by a dog and made eye contact?

Huh? I make eye contact with ALL the dogs I meet. And ALL the people I meet. AND the cats...

Well,the idea of living forever, [for me at least] comes because I`m afraid of endings. I believe that this applies to everyone, even tho some people insult me for that. So I constantly feed my fear with the beliefs that even after I die, I go somewhere.

Originally Posted by missarane

Well,the idea of living forever, [for me at least] comes because I`m afraid of endings. I believe that this applies to everyone

Nope.
Evidently, since some people actively seek an end.

Originally Posted by missarane

Well,the idea of living forever, [for me at least] comes because I`m afraid of endings. I believe that this applies to everyone, even tho some people insult me for that. So I constantly feed my fear with the beliefs that even after I die, I go somewhere.

yep, 6" unda xD

Darn. I have to learn to use the forum -.- I lost all I wrote.


@Duck: YES IT APPLIES to everyone THAT BELIEVES that we have many lives. I do not think the ones that seek an ending believe in that. Show me one and I`ll change my mind.

Originally Posted by missarane

Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy...

What is this energy? How do you measure this energy? Inventing beliefs off the top of your head is not how you find answers.

I could say I believe we turn into Unicorns and frolic in the golden meadow. That's no kind of an answer- it's pure fantasy.

Originally Posted by missarane

It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body

Show evidence of this "energy" and of "Spirit."
Explain why it is that any alteration to the brain alters the person and refute the physical brain as the operating system for a human and then demonstrate how this "energy" you speak of causes a person to LIVE without a brain.

Originally Posted by missarane

It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures...

Provide the source of this "Proof."
You clearly do not know the meaning of the word, "Proof."
"Proof" means to be made certain 100%. To put this in perspective, you don't know that you're not imagining all this and locked in a padded room somewhere drooling on yourself... YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.
So it's not even proven that your life, as you perceive it, is real. "Proof" is very, very hard to come by. As it is for now, proof only exists in mathematics.

I recommend you try using other words to make yourself clear. Such as, "There is strong evidence to support this conclusion."

Originally Posted by missarane

I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.

This is a pheromone response and I can give a great many examples. There is no mysterious "energy" involved.

Originally Posted by missarane

Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved, so it sustains your friend`s theory.

There's that word "Proved," again... and you have no idea what you're talking about. You really need to do better at providing evidence for your asserted "Absolute Certainties."

Originally Posted by missarane

Now, going against: deja-vu experiences can be kind-of explained scientifically: if you ever saw a picture, for 1 sec only, somewhere, it can stay in your brain even tho you are not conscious of it`s existance, and if you ever go in that place, you can have a deja-vu.

Yes, this is accurate and I commend you for showing critical thinking to achieve an actual answer.

Originally Posted by missarane

Uhm? I still think it takes more that 5 seconds for the smell to get to the dog.

Does it take more than 5 seconds for you to smell an orange if someone opens a bag with one in it?

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by missarane

Uhm? I still think it takes more that 5 seconds for the smell to get to the dog.

Does it take more than 5 seconds for you to smell an orange if someone opens a bag with one in it?

depends on distance... if it is near me, nope, but if it is 10m in front of me [ the distance I suppose the dog is], I certainly can`t smell it.

Originally Posted by missarane

depends on distance... if it is near me, nope, but if it is 10m in front of me [ the distance I suppose the dog is], I certainly can`t smell it.

Ah, a disadvantaged person.
I can smell oranges from another room.
Pity, because I hate them and the smell makes me feel ill.

Originally Posted by missarane

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by missarane

Uhm? I still think it takes more that 5 seconds for the smell to get to the dog.

Does it take more than 5 seconds for you to smell an orange if someone opens a bag with one in it?

depends on distance... if it is near me, nope, but if it is 10m in front of me [ the distance I suppose the dog is], I certainly can`t smell it.

Look up Brownian Motion.

someone who fears dogs, sends out signals towards a dog as soon as he spots one. it's a 1 second job.

Originally Posted by curious mind

someone who fears dogs, sends out signals towards a dog as soon as he spots one. it's a 1 second job.

An interesting sidenote:

The "fear" response includes Adrenaline and a few other pheromones that just happen to have the same scent as "anger."
A dog can literally smell your fear and various other emotions as well. The problem is, fear and aggression have the same scent.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

fear and aggression have the same scent.

So long as it's not the same smell as oranges I don't care.
Um, or coffee with milk in it.
And I'm not that partial to the smell of vodka, either ¹.


1 Yes, I know. Some people claim vodka doesn't have a scent. But that's usually teenagers trying to get away with under-age drinking.

it might not have a scent, but it clearly has a taste. i don't understand why ppl like that stuff it tastes like crap.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

1 Yes, I know. Some people claim vodka doesn't have a scent. But that's usually teenagers trying to get away with under-age drinking.

Vodka has a scent.
It's slight, but there.

I agree- it is crap. I'm not a drinker, though... so maybe I am biased.
Like Beer- I don't like the taste of beer. Normally.
But once in a blue moon, on a hot day after working hard- beer tastes good. If it's quality beer and not BudCrap or Miller... or Coors...

We're weird.

Originally Posted by missarane

I think that we do live forever.
Why?

Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy.

Why do you think this?
Because. This is an answer I`m not going to give, not because I do not have the arguments for that, but I do not find it necessary to expose my faith on forum on my first day here.

It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body and just goes into another form.

What's a "spirit"?

Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life.

Previous life?
Yups.

It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures.

Source please. I'm not entirely sure it's been "proven".
I`ll look into it and post it as soon as possible, it`s 4:30 AM in my country and I`m really tired.

I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.

And the ONLY way that could happen is because of "electromagnetic field interaction", right?
No.
Ok, please tell me how else.

Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved

Please, don't get your "science" from pop-science TV documentaries. It most certainly has NOT been proved that there is a "universal consciousness" (or conscience - but I don't think that's what you meant).

Oh well, call me stupid, but I believe in it. Why? Because.

I would suggest, that if you aren't willing to give reasons for your opinions or faith, that don't express your opinions or faith on the forum. Anything you say here, you will be asked to back up. Provide evidence that that stuff you claim is proven has been proven. If you make claims of fact, you WILL BE expected to back it up. If you are stating an opinion, be ready to explain why you hold that opinion or keep your opinions to yourself. This is a science forum. Not a faith forum. Not an opinion forum. Every last one of us is held to the same standard.

And for someone who doesn't want to divulge her faith on this forum, you sure did spew plenty about it out already. Care to back-peddle?

Originally Posted by missarane

Well,the idea of living forever, [for me at least] comes because I`m afraid of endings. I believe that this applies to everyone, even tho some people insult me for that. So I constantly feed my fear with the beliefs that even after I die, I go somewhere.

So you do understand. faith in eternal life is just a construct of your imagination created to protect you from accepting the reality that one day you will no longer exist. and eventually no one will remember you ever did, unless you do something so amazing that you make it into history books. and even then the real you will be forgotten and only a glamorized version of you will be made into legend and that is what people will actually remember.

And at the end of all ends, none of our lives will have mattered beyond the time of our own existences.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Vodka has a scent.
It's slight, but there.

Pfft, ANOTHER disadvantaged person!
Someone once handed me a drink at a party.
I turned it down after one look and a sniff on the grounds that I don't like orange juice, I quite liked blackcurrant (yes, it was one of those late-teens/ early 20s things where whatever fitted into glass was PUT into a glass) and I didn't want vodka.
I could smell the vodka OVER the orange.

pfft
it rages, and it dies

You may have been smelling the alcohol. Alcohol, with it's lower evaporation temp, reaches the nose more quickly than other compounds in the glass. It's why they use it in making cologne and perfume...
But yes, I am glad to say I am nasally disadvantaged.

Mister duck, it`s not us disadvanteged, you just have superpowers

Originally Posted by curious mind

someone who fears dogs, sends out signals towards a dog as soon as he spots one. it's a 1 second job.

Ever entered a classroom after the previous occupants have been taking an important exam?

I can smell fear, and I'm a measly human.

Originally Posted by Alec Bing

Originally Posted by curious mind

someone who fears dogs, sends out signals towards a dog as soon as he spots one. it's a 1 second job.

Ever entered a classroom after the previous occupants have been taking an important exam?

I can smell fear, and I'm a measly human.

We often smell things that our brains simply exclude from making a bid deal about. Another common example:
You're walking down a hallway in a building that is occupied on a daily basis by many people that are there daily.
As you pass by a person you've never really interacted with or paid any attention to at all, you happen to meet their eyes with yours.
Not long after, you feel your face flush. Your heart-rate increased noticeably.
What the heck was that?
Answer is... That person has a crush on ya. Your body reacted to the flood of pheromones they suddenly spewed out. Handy for evolution, not so convenient in the school or office.

Another is hearing. A person who has been blind for a very long time can learn how to echo locate. Often they use clicks.
Yet, they do not have better hearing than the average. So if I try clicking to hear the echo and make use of the technique- I don't notice the echo... Unless I practice it for a while... This is because my brain filters out the echo's normally (Leading some people to the misnomer that deaf people suddenly develop better than average hearing to compensate for loss of sight- A bit like the ten percent myth.)
Also, the smell of your own home... You don't notice it anymore. The brain filters it out. But a guest may notice it.

Wow what a tangent this thread went off on...

Well,the idea of living forever, [for me at least] comes because I`m afraid of endings. I believe that this applies to everyone, even tho some people insult me for that. So I constantly feed my fear with the beliefs that even after I die, I go somewhere.

Well, I confess I never thought about it when I was your age.

I'm the opposite now. Though I acknowledge that my feelings on this are probably coloured by the fact that my family is very long-lived, if you drop off the perch before you're 85 then you have simply not tried. My mother is now 88 and has only recently started to show signs of physical decline, and no mental or intellectual decline at all. So the idea of my own death still feels quite remote and a long time yet.

I like to see the flow of life and growth and experience from generation to generation. I like owning things that belonged to my great-great-grandparents who I never met and I'm content to think that those items will one day enhance the life of a great-great-grandchild of my own who I will never meet. It causes us grief as family members die, but that is the one price we sometimes have to pay for love. No matter how awful the grief, no matter how much or how long it blights your existence, the life filled with love is worth it.

I do not understand the fear of non-existence. Maybe I'm just crazy- but there is nothing about my existence ceasing that bothers me.

Originally Posted by missarane

Darn. I have to learn to use the forum -.- I lost all I wrote.


@Duck: YES IT APPLIES to everyone THAT BELIEVES that we have many lives. I do not think the ones that seek an ending believe in that. Show me one and I`ll change my mind.

Just be certain you keep BELIEFS and FACTS separate in your travels.

He's not Mr. Duck....he's Daffy!

Yes, what a tangent in deed...

I will add this for food for thought. The only way I believe we could potential live forever, or as long as we wished, is if we had the ability to store our memories and later implant them into a new body; may that body be cyborg or human.... However, this is my friends view on 'proof' for a past life:

He thinks he has lived several time before and can slightly remember bits and pieces of those lives. Like someone mentioned above he does not think he was ever a famous figure; quiet the contrary. He thinks he was once a farmer, then a scholar, a blacksmith, a trader (merchant) and a servant. He also believes he died very young at least twice. All his past lives span from ancient Egypt, middle-age Italy, Nazi Germany and pre-industrial France. I will say his stories are quiet intriguing; although to stay on tract this is what he offers as his 'proof': He, nor I, nor my mother nor most likely yourself can physically remember being two years old. Although it is without a doubt you were 1 and 2 years old. You can look at a picture from when you were that small and begin to build memories from that image. He believes the same is true for past lives. You see something or smell something and begin to conjure images and memories that can't possible be yours. But he argues they are. Ill give one example he told me:

As a kid he lived in an old house. He was an average kid who likes sports and playing outside and never thought much about anything else. However the house had an old shed which was full of old farming tools and boxes of old nails. He said that once he found those tools and nails he became fascinated by them and wanted to know how they were made. He said from that point on he would have memories of being a blacksmith. He could remember working in the forge. He could remember the small village he lived in. It was in the mountains He says every time he saw the nails he would smell coal and pine. Beyond that he does not remember much about his life as a mountain blacksmith until it came to an end when Nazi rolled through his town and killed all the men in the village.

Could this be his overactive imagination. Could be, but he is very dull. I personally don't know what to believe on that subject but then again we have no true way of knowing if for a certainty when we die its ....

Could be, but he is very dull. I personally don't know what to believe on that subject but then again we have no true way of knowing if for a certainty when we die its ....

We know we do not return back here, our bodies decay away or are cremated which leaves no trace that we were ever here. We just decompose into the atoms we are made up of and those atoms are released back into the universe to once again form something new. So in a way, we do live forever as those atoms that keep on becoming something new over and over.

Originally Posted by Beyondthought

Could this be his overactive imagination. Could be, but he is very dull.

Or, more probably, his "dullness" combined with reading/ hearing too many ¹ crank claims.

1 With crank subjects like this, especially when coupled with "dullness", "too many" is mathematically defined as "at least one".

I'm immortal myself, in all honestly, it's kinda overrated. I miss the days when men could wear tons of make-up and wigs, go plunder other countries without being questioned, and could decapitate thousands because they were witches. Those days are gone now, but I am still here.

You can still wear tons of make up and a wig, if you want...

no.

Originally Posted by mat5592

no.

How else could I have procured such limitless wisdom and knowledge that I post on these forums?

because...well, you're just that good.

Originally Posted by mat5592

because...well, you're just that good.

No you fool. Us immortals have evolved to use the google bar.

that was my second guess.

Originally Posted by shlunka

Originally Posted by mat5592

because...well, you're just that good.

No you fool. Us immortals have evolved to use the google bar.

you mean "we immortals" not "us"..... all that age and wisdom and still can't speak properly lol

Sorry shlunka, just giving you a hard time.

Originally Posted by shlunka

Originally Posted by mat5592

no.

How else could I have procured such limitless wisdom and knowledge that I post on these forums?

Turtles

Originally Posted by missarane

Uhm I agree with your friend more or less. I think that we do live forever. Oh well, I believe that we are a form of energy, and when we die, we just change the shape of that energy... It`s like after we die, our spirit leaves the body and just goes into another form... Yet we`ll be influenced by the things we did and how we were in our previous life...
Back to our subject: It has already been proven that our brain and heart have an electromagnetic field that constantly interracts with other fields of other living creatures...
I think your friend is right, more or less, because: u ever passed by a dog and you were afraid, and it just felt it? That is an information exchange between you and that dog.
Plus of that, from what I saw in a Through the wormhole documentary, the existence of universal conscience has been proved, so it sustains your friend`s theory.
Now, going against: deja-vu experiences can be kind-of explained scientifically: if you ever saw a picture, for 1 sec only, somewhere, it can stay in your brain even tho you are not conscious of it`s existance, and if you ever go in that place, you can have a deja-vu.

I seem to like this argument mainly because it contains continuum, however I want to take another angle. I see the continuum of everlasting life through the eyes of the offspring. We create the children and they are made of all the essence of ourselves. They inherit the knowledge of our blood cells, and they live until the matter that made them begins to digress into other possibilities of change. An evolutionary process coincides with the life span of the parents and continues after the death process of the parents is completed. I have repeatedly read that the children inherit the DNA from the parents that would indicate that the DNA lives on through the children. If the bloodline were cut off, meaning no children, then the branch of that bloodline would wither away as we observe on trees.

When someone dies the memories of that person comes to reside in you. All that you have known about that person is now embedded into your memory bank and you keep that until you pass on and delivers your memory into someone else’s memory bank.

Not forever but if theoretically warp drive is possible then fucking shit becoming supercentarian and beyond is possible.
I'll tell you what, "human brains in a robot bodies."
The answers is: Probably. (Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.)

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing. What do you say.

Originally Posted by Therapy

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Two errors here:
1) merely because energy is transformed does not mean, or even imply, that a man will continue (at all).
Most energy gets transformed into heat, unusable heat.
2) you seem to arguing from the premise that humans, at least as far as personality and identity, are nothing more than (some form of) energy, this is unsupported, possibly unfounded.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing.

So what?
Simply because the matter that was once a teacup is still around after being smashed and ground to dust does not mean that the teacup still exists.

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing. What do you say.

Stick to one goal. Are you looking to exist forever or live forever. they are not exactly the same thing.

I found an interesting article on this topic and it makes good sense to me.

Immortality IS NOT a Human Possibility

Immortality IS NOT a Human Possibility | Rightly Understood | Big Think

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing. What do you say.

Stick to one goal. Are you looking to exist forever or live forever. they are not exactly the same thing.

You are right, I don't think we can live forever but exsist forever. If we can see where we are coming from but do not know where we are going, that would give us a problem in determing the end.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Therapy

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Two errors here:
1) merely because energy is transformed does not mean, or even imply, that a man will continue (at all).
Most energy gets transformed into heat, unusable heat.
2) you seem to arguing from the premise that humans, at least as far as personality and identity, are nothing more than (some form of) energy, this is unsupported, possibly unfounded.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing.

So what?
Simply because the matter that was once a teacup is still around after being smashed and ground to dust does not mean that the teacup still exists.

Are you sure most matter changes into heat? What about dark matter? When you say unuseable heat, are you refering to the use by humans or the cosmos or what.

Ok, give me your definition of what the human changes into other than heat.

So what?
Simply because the matter that was once a teacup is still around after being smashed and ground to dust does not mean that the teacup still exists.

Well I would say the tea cup has lost its form it has now been transformed into dust particles

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing. What do you say.

Stick to one goal. Are you looking to exist forever or live forever. they are not exactly the same thing.

You are right, I don't think we can live forever but exsist forever. If we can see where we are coming from but do not know where we are going, that would give us a problem in determing the end.

It also leaves you with defining what "you" actually are. Are you your body? Are you your mind? Are you "you" without one or the other?

The possibilities of perpetual existence depends on that definition.

Originally Posted by Therapy

Are you sure most matter changes into heat?

Er, what did I actually write?
Oh, this:

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Most energy gets transformed into heat

When you say unuseable heat, are you refering to the use by humans or the cosmos or what.

By the cosmos?
The heat is dissipated into the surroundings - unrecoverable.

Ok, give me your definition of what the human changes into other than heat.

Apart from the mistake (your mistake) about what changes, how about "dead body"?
And rotting organic material.

Well I would say the tea cup has lost its form it has now been transformed into dust particles

In other words it's no longer a cup. The cup, as a cup, has ceased to exist.
There is no cup any more.
QED.

basic rule:Everything that has a beginning has an end(atleast for life forms). so the conclusion is obvious isnt it?

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Therapy

Are you sure most matter changes into heat?

Er, what did I actually write?
Oh, this:

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Most energy gets transformed into heat

When you say unuseable heat, are you refering to the use by humans or the cosmos or what.

By the cosmos?
The heat is dissipated into the surroundings - unrecoverable.

Ok, give me your definition of what the human changes into other than heat.

Apart from the mistake (your mistake) about what changes, how about "dead body"?
And rotting organic material.

Well I would say the tea cup has lost its form it has now been transformed into dust particles

In other words it's no longer a cup. The cup, as a cup, has ceased to exist.
There is no cup any more.
QED.

I am sorry, I seem to be having a hard time following your thread. I have noticed you are repeating most of what I am explaining, and yet you don't seem to agree.

In other words it's no longer a cup. The cup, as a cup, has ceased to exist.
There is no cup any more.
QED.

The cup has been transformed from a shape to a non shape, it cannot be named a cup in the final stage of its transformation.

Originally Posted by Therapy

I am sorry, I seem to be having a hard time following your thread.

Obviously.

I have noticed you are repeating most of what I am explaining, and yet you don't seem to agree.

tell me, how does any of what I have said agree with your contention:

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

The cup has been transformed from a shape to a non shape, it cannot be named a cup in the final stage of its transformation.

In other words it's no longer a cup: EXACTLY the same way that, after death, a human is no longer a human.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Originally Posted by Therapy

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

No one can live forever
Yes if souls exist and if there is law regarding soul like law of conservation of energy and mass
than soul may be forever
But a man can not live forever

If one cannot come to a final conclusion about the transformation of energy, then how can we say man cannot exsist forever.

Matter changes, so much we have experienced, but it does not evoprerate into nothing. What do you say.

Stick to one goal. Are you looking to exist forever or live forever. they are not exactly the same thing.

You are right, I don't think we can live forever but exsist forever. If we can see where we are coming from but do not know where we are going, that would give us a problem in determing the end.

It also leaves you with defining what "you" actually are. Are you your body? Are you your mind? Are you "you" without one or the other?

The possibilities of perpetual existence depends on that definition.

Wow, I love where this is leading. Now the question is, are we the totality of what we cannot define, which is ourselves. I will never be able to answer any question in totality, so what remains is the part of the whole that I think I know. If I stretch my thoughts, then death is a continuum. So would you say living for ever is within the limits of this continuum.

Originally Posted by Therapy

If I stretch my thoughts

Please, tell us how to "stretch our thoughts".

then death is a continuum

Why do you think this follows from the previous statement?

So would you say living for ever is within the limits of this continuum.

Even IF there were a "continuum" there's nothing to suggest that that is true.

Originally Posted by parag29081973

basic rule:Everything that has a beginning has an end(atleast for life forms). so the conclusion is obvious isnt it?

I guess it is the begining and the end that we are interested in. Everything that has a begining and end is stored in the subjective mind. We also have an objective mind that does not give us totality. Do you see it that way.

We appear on the planet at a point in time, so we preceive life to be begining for us.

yes may be in a thousand year we could make ourselves immortal...but will the government of various nations allow such technology to be invented? i dont think so...the moment that humans stops to die would mark the death of our civilization

Originally Posted by sudheep8531

yes may be in a thousand year we could make ourselves immortal...but will the government of various nations allow such technology to be invented? i dont think so...the moment that humans stops to die would mark the death of our civilization

If you append the words "as we know it" to your last sentence I'd agree.

My own little opinion on this (With little to no proper scientific facts to really back it up, so I realise that I might get torn into a little) is that we certainly cannot, as physical beings, live forever. However, consciousness is another matter.

Perhaps when one dies, a being that is capable of having such a consciousness (Humans, dogs, cats and such,) their consciousness will, for want of a better word (It's almost 2 in the morning where I am, give me a break.) join up with the rest of consciousness, assuming that consciousness is itself a dimension. I realise that there are only eleven dimensions, but other dimensions existing are somewhat feasible, although extremely unstable. Through consciousness, we can, in a way, live forever (Again, assuming consciousness is something that exists outside universes but inside the Multiverse.)

But please, feel free to correct me with proper facts and such, I'm here to learn a little more, after all!

Oh, so much in there needs "correcting".
On the other hand, kudos and my personal congratulations for the way you expressed your "speculations/ thoughts".

Tearing up commencing:

Perhaps when one dies, a being that is capable of having such a consciousness (Humans, dogs, cats and such,) their consciousness will, for want of a better word (It's almost 2 in the morning where I am, give me a break.) join up with the rest of consciousness

It's a nice comforting speculation, but we have zero evidence to support it.

assuming that consciousness is itself a dimension

Misuse of the word "dimension" - or rather this use isn't (although consciousness isn't a dimension any more than, say, "speech" is) your other uses are misuses. Slapped wrist. Again, there's no evidence that "consciousness" (whatever it is) can exist "outside" of the body.

I realise that there are only eleven dimensions

11-ish, exact number not (AFAIK) confirmed. Regardless of the actual number the "extra" ones are curled up so small we can't get at them.

although extremely unstable.

Huh?

Through consciousness, we can, in a way, live forever (Again, assuming consciousness is something that exists outside universes but inside the Multiverse.)

IF these other "dimensions" (of the multiverse) exist we can't get at them either. If they were accessible we'd have some evidence, they'd be detectable somehow. If they don't have a discernible effect on us then to all intents and purposes they might as well not exist.

Originally Posted by TheMan76

so I realise that I might get torn into a little)

You really deserve to be.
What do you think consciousness is?

You're using a computer, right now. Is the Operating system of that computer the consciousness of the machine? Is that "consciousness" separate from the physical processes that make it appear as though a window is open with images on your screen? Is that illusion real?
Consciousness or mind- is just the operating system of the brain and nervous system, in combination to the lymphatic system and circulatory system. It is not separate from the brain in any way whatsoever. There isn't the brain- and then your mind. It is one in the same. Alter the brain and you alter the effect of the brain as we perceive it. Remove the brain from the complete system and the subject reduces in complexity (i.e. dies.)


You're referring to it as something spiritual- some ghostly 'being' that resides inside of our skulls. You would need to provide some hard evidence to support any conclusion that there is such a thing.

Originally Posted by TheMan76

assuming that consciousness is itself a dimension.

If length, breadth, height are dimensions- what is the consciousness dimension?

Originally Posted by TheMan76

I realise that there are only eleven dimensions,

26, actually... Most are contracted or "curled up" due to the rapid expansion from the big bang and inaccessible in any way, save the 26th... this is off topic.
You're misusing the word dimension, here... and there being anything beyond 4 dimensions is totally speculative.

Originally Posted by TheMan76

But please, feel free to correct me with proper facts and such, I'm here to learn a little more, after all!

Thanks for the corrections there, guys. I generally posted that due to the fact that there really isn't much properly known about consciousness beyond the usual "An evolutionary product" and other such things. It's why I'm interested in this, and why I think it might have something to do with a hypothetical "immortality". If I bring attention to the matter, then perhaps I can get more information. I'm not going to stop until I truly find out the truth, even if it takes me my entire life (Cue overly dramatic music)

Anyway, I thought that it might be interesting, and I'm happy that I wasn't laughed out of the forums for it.

Back on topic, however, it seems that the answer (Or answers) to immortality are elusive for now, beyond the already suggested putting our minds inside computers (And even that has problems.) I think perhaps that there really is no such thing as immortality, at least in our universe anyway. But say hypothetically that we got out of the universe and into others like ours, do you think that maybe in one of those other worlds we can find immortality? Or would the physics and laws of the other universes deny us the ability to find the answer to our question here?

Just chucking that out for people to think about.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by sudheep8531

yes may be in a thousand year we could make ourselves immortal...but will the government of various nations allow such technology to be invented? i dont think so...the moment that humans stops to die would mark the death of our civilization

If you append the words "as we know it" to your last sentence I'd agree.

whats the importance of as we know it? our civilisation may change but it will still abide to some rules..also i dont think very important rules wouldnt change..

Originally Posted by sudheep8531

whats the importance of as we know it? our civilisation may change but it will still abide to some rules..also i dont think very important rules wouldnt change..

Exactly.
What we call "our civilisation" now would die, but whatever it turned into would be our civilisation.

Originally Posted by sudheep8531

yes may be in a thousand year we could make ourselves immortal...but will the government of various nations allow such technology to be invented? i dont think so...the moment that humans stops to die would mark the death of our civilization

What use would technology have, if we use the same matter that life is now using as our sourse? If life was not a continuum then you would not be present. This is why I am saying that death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life.

the moment that humans stops to die would mark the death of our civilization

To some extent I want to agree with you here. However, it might be the end of civilizations as we know them, but it is certainly not the end of continuum on a cosmic level.

Originally Posted by Therapy

What use would technology have, if we use the same matter that life is now using as our sourse?

What?
Look at existing technologies that extend, or preserve life.

If life was not a continuum then you would not be present.

A continuum? This sounds familiar...
Oh yeah:
You: death is a continuum
Me: Why do you think this follows from the previous statement?
You: no reply.

You: So would you say living for ever is within the limits of this continuum.
Me: Even IF there were a "continuum" there's nothing to suggest that that is true.
You: no reply.

In other words you're repeating an unsupported assertion.

This is why I am saying that death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life.

What?

To some extent I want to agree with you here. However, it might be the end of civilizations as we know them, but it is certainly not the end of continuum on a cosmic level.

Yeah, especially as the "continuum at the cosmic level" doesn't "care" whether we live or die.

Originally Posted by TheMan76

Thanks for the corrections there, guys. I generally posted that due to the fact that there really isn't much properly known about consciousness beyond the usual "An evolutionary product" and other such things. It's why I'm interested in this, and why I think it might have something to do with a hypothetical "immortality". If I bring attention to the matter, then perhaps I can get more information. I'm not going to stop until I truly find out the truth, even if it takes me my entire life (Cue overly dramatic music)

Anyway, I thought that it might be interesting, and I'm happy that I wasn't laughed out of the forums for it.

Back on topic, however, it seems that the answer (Or answers) to immortality are elusive for now, beyond the already suggested putting our minds inside computers (And even that has problems.) I think perhaps that there really is no such thing as immortality, at least in our universe anyway. But say hypothetically that we got out of the universe and into others like ours, do you think that maybe in one of those other worlds we can find immortality? Or would the physics and laws of the other universes deny us the ability to find the answer to our question here?

Just chucking that out for people to think about.

My thoughts are that everything and no thing exist. Everything is made of everything, and is renewable. My thoughts tell me that everything and no thing exists, if I go from my convictions, there is a space for immortality in the scheme of things.

I am sure you already know all kinds of different ways of traveling into space; even you are traveling through space as we type using your body. I am sure there are some universes you can reach with your thought wave; there are others that you cannot reach. Your naked eyes can see billions of light years across space, but it can only do so in a given dimension and size.

For some reason you have landed with a question bigger than big, and you do not have a clue why this question is important to you. (I am being arrogant here) For all you know our communication are worlds and light years away. I want to try to answer your question like this.
Immortality is as real as mortality. Our consciousness is moving all the time, it is not stable, one time we are here, and another time we are there. When we are here, we ask certain questions, when we are there, we ask other questions. I think it depends on how you want to look at it. I am not preaching gospel, shedding light on how it looks to me.

In other words you're making statements that are either A) wrong or B) unsupported.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Therapy

What use would technology have, if we use the same matter that life is now using as our sourse?

What?
Look at existing technologies that extend, or preserve life.

If life was not a continuum then you would not be present.

A continuum? This sounds familiar...
Oh yeah:
You: death is a continuum
Me: Why do you think this follows from the previous statement?
You: no reply.

You: So would you say living for ever is within the limits of this continuum.
Me: Even IF there were a "continuum" there's nothing to suggest that that is true.
You: no reply.

In other words you're repeating an unsupported assertion.

This is why I am saying that death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life.

What?

To some extent I want to agree with you here. However, it might be the end of civilizations as we know them, but it is certainly not the end of continuum on a cosmic level.

Yeah, especially as the "continuum at the cosmic level" doesn't "care" whether we live or die.

Dywyddyr, I don't think you are digging deep enough, it seems you are answering to someone who is trying to translate what I am saying.

What?
Look at existing technologies that extend, or preserve life.

We are not talking about preserving life we are talking about immortality.

Originally Posted by Therapy

Dywyddyr, I don't think you are digging deep enough, it seems you are answering to someone who is trying to translate what I am saying.

No, I'm replying to what is written.
You appear to have a number of beliefs/ assumptions behind what you write, but have, so far, failed to clarify those for us.
You keep making claims and you don't support them. Please do so.

We are not talking about preserving life we are talking about immortality.

Oh, you missed the word "extend" in my sentence?

Nature itself is nothing more than a puzzle
And it is not possible to solve it
Law of nature allows non organic matters to create thinking and conciseness
If we take view what is now about 1000000 years ago, It would be surprised and unbeliable
What would be after 10000000 years , possibly it may be unbelievable for current time

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Therapy

Dywyddyr, I don't think you are digging deep enough, it seems you are answering to someone who is trying to translate what I am saying.

No, I'm replying to what is written.
You appear to have a number of beliefs/ assumptions behind what you write, but have, so far, failed to clarify those for us.
You keep making claims and you don't support them. Please do so.

We are not talking about preserving life we are talking about immortality.

Oh, you missed the word "extend" in my sentence?

Should I assume you have no such thing as beliefs or assumptions?

I am making claim to be alive, do you want proof for that. How do you want me to support that.

Originally Posted by Therapy

Should I assume you have no such thing as beliefs or assumptions?

Assume what you like.
I am, however, pointing out the difference between holding a belief or assumption and making that belief known while posting "conclusions" based on those.
Until you give us more information on HOW you arrived at your particular "conclusions" all we can do is comment on the "conclusion" as presented.

I am making claim to be alive

Plus one or two others, viz.:
death is a continuum
death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life
I am sure there are some universes you can reach with your thought wave
Immortality is as real as mortality
Our consciousness is moving all the time

All you have presented here are unsupported claims.
As such they are worthless.

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

Nature itself is nothing more than a puzzle

Yep.

And it is not possible to solve it

Assumption.

Law of nature allows non organic matters to create thinking and conciseness

Evidence please.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

Nature itself is nothing more than a puzzle

Yep.

And it is not possible to solve it

Assumption.

Law of nature allows non organic matters to create thinking and conciseness

Evidence please.

Ha ha ha
No living one exists during the early stage of earth
now yourself is a proof of conciseness

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

Ha ha ha
No living one exists during the early stage of earth
now yourself is a proof of conciseness

So what you meant to write was "Law of nature allows non organic matters to "create" organic matter which THEN starts thinking and has consciousness"?

right

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by Therapy

Should I assume you have no such thing as beliefs or assumptions?

Assume what you like.
I am, however, pointing out the difference between holding a belief or assumption and making that belief known while posting "conclusions" based on those.
Until you give us more information on HOW you arrived at your particular "conclusions" all we can do is comment on the "conclusion" as presented.

I am making claim to be alive

Plus one or two others, viz.:
death is a continuum
death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life
I am sure there are some universes you can reach with your thought wave
Immortality is as real as mortality
Our consciousness is moving all the time

All you have presented here are unsupported claims.
As such they are worthless.

Ok I am going to take it slow.

death is a continuum

I was born with death, as I live, I die.

death is not the final answer to all the question of eternal life

Death can only be total if it was eternal.

I am sure there are some universes you can reach with your thought wave

You have to be able to think of everything and nothing, which in tern means you are capable of suing your thought wave to reach places.

Immortality is as real as mortality

Depends on how you want to see it.

Our consciousness is moving all the time

One second we are conscious of this, the next second we are conscious of that. It is actually very simply.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

Originally Posted by RAJ_K

Nature itself is nothing more than a puzzle

Yep.

And it is not possible to solve it

Assumption.

Law of nature allows non organic matters to create thinking and conciseness

Evidence please.

Are you ok? you sound very strange.