Thread: Existing forever

Heres a question for you guys... if it's already been asked i apologyze. Personally, if you had to pick would u rather when you die, go to heaven (a place with so sin) and be there for eternity or would you rather not exist.

Personally, i am about 80% sure i would choose non existance. If you are going to a place with no choices because you can only do what is "right" then your not really existing to begin with. Secondly i do not want to be in a place for "eternity", however long that may be.

Originally Posted by coolaak

Heres a question for you guys... if it's already been asked i apologyze. Personally, if you had to pick would u rather when you die, go to heaven (a place with so sin) and be there for eternity or would you rather not exist.

Personally, i am about 80% sure i would choose non existance. If you are going to a place with no choices because you can only do what is "right" then your not really existing to begin with. Secondly i do not want to be in a place for "eternity", however long that may be.

Lets see, you wouldn't be happy being in a place full of good people forever? A place where you don't have to worry about death, murder, rape, torture, bombings, etc. ???

Bee

yes... when you point out only the good things your right it does sound good... however when the fact that i would be in a place in which i would have no choices and the fact that i would be there for an infinite amount comes into play i dont think i would want to be there.... another similar questions thats has some relevance to this question... if there was a certain chair that when you sat in it made you the most comfortable you have ever felt and it fed you and you were very satisfied in this chair however... there was one stipulation to sitting in it, you could never get up for all eternity, would you sit down?

id like to live for ever, a eternal existens

Fact is you allready are doing it, you just don't know enough to understand it yet. All this physics is clouding your sences and objective.

You want to live forever, but fact is you can live after not being alive since you were born, else you lived all the time. If you did not live before you were alive, where were you? If you were not in any certain position, how could you not become what you are directly (when you are not, either you can do something or you can't, i don't think it changes) and if you couldn't all the time, how can you be here?

The solution is that you must live forever, cause you cannot die since then you wouldn't live, and if you don't live you cannot become alive cause you can't do anything, cause then you would be alive (since if you change, the YOU in the you changed would still be, and if it wasn't, you would not have changed to become you hence you were alive all the time). So if you were not alive before you lived then you never would have lived.

i dont get this. everybody sins. when u go to heaven what changes? God is ALL ABOUT choices so what changes in heaven?

anyway it sounds like u be get bored but that not the case. u might not.

Fact is you allready are doing it, you just don't know enough to understand it yet. All this physics is clouding your sences and objective

no, it shows us how things are.

but fact is you can live after not being alive since you were born

thats bullshit, my body can theoreticly repair all the damage my cells gain throu out my life perfectly but its not a evolutionary profitble therefor they dont. So as in aging i could live for ever. Damages caused by outside phenomena(such as a car) can also be repaired to perfection with advanced technology, so a eternal life is indeed possible even thou i were born. I could even digitilize my brain(in the future) and become a perfect machine were i will live for ever

If you did not live before you were alive, where were you?

i didnt exist, i as i know it came to be by biological processes that hadnt been initiated until 9month ago when the egg were fertilized. And i as a person is the result of outside stimuli on the biological processes inside my body and alot more. My existens werent before i were born and it isnt after i die

how can you be here?

see previus

The solution is that you must live forever,

no, the solution is to stop smocking opium/mariujana and get back to reality

i die becuase of my body insuffient capability of perfect repair of standard biological processes or the failure of repairing major destruction of my body. If both this are eliminated biological7mechanical my existens wont end

Originally Posted by coolaak

yes... when you point out only the good things your right it does sound good... however when the fact that i would be in a place in which i would have no choices and the fact that i would be there for an infinite amount comes into play i dont think i would want to be there.... another similar questions thats has some relevance to this question... if there was a certain chair that when you sat in it made you the most comfortable you have ever felt and it fed you and you were very satisfied in this chair however... there was one stipulation to sitting in it, you could never get up for all eternity, would you sit down?

This is the same thing....

If you lived in a "chair world" full of good and bad chairs and you went to "chair heaven" after you died, I would be happy to spend eternity in a good chair never having the choice of sitting in a bad one.

Bee

imagine heaven exists...if only good exists, than good as we know it on earth changes to an absolute...we have no bad to compare with the good so good becomes all we know and threfore takes on not a form of being a positive or negative thing but rather a state of singularity so to speak...maybe one can even call it a void...i think we all do live forever but not physically...i dont know what i would want...i think immortality would make life boring, think about it

i think immortality would make life boring, think about it

with a eternal life you could take over the world, then destroy it and take humanity back to stone age and see how it evovles for a second time you can keep yourself entertained for quite sometime with teh continius destruction of civilization

that would be fun, yes, but eternity is a loooooooooooong time, i am sure destroying and bringing back humanity will get boring after the 10005th time....realistically speaking...eternity is quite a commitment

at that point you begin to geneticly manipulate humanity to become 2 different specieses and see how they evovles toghater and as that get boring you keep changing it, you could have fun for a infinity since there is a infinite amount of ways you can manipulate the human genome

If you can become alive, then ipso facto you are not alive before you were alive.

How can you become you if there is no you to become you, and if you can become you without being you why shouldn't you be able to do it again.

LeavingQuietly, i told you to stop smocking, it aint good, enither for your body or your brain.

How can you become you if there is no you to become you

becuase everything has a begining, i began when the egg were fertelised and thats the most primetive i you can get

and if you can become you without being you why shouldn't you be able to do it again.

becuase im greater than the sum of all my parts and experiences and this sum wont exist again. And even if you manish to get the exact same experiences and biomatter and genetical composition it wont be another me since that brain/body will take another development.

This kind of thinking and discussion is irrelevant and useless. Its a waste of time and energy. Use your brains power for something constructive instant of useless trash.

You are just a silly kid, i don't listen to such remarks.

I am certain that it can't be that impossible to become you again if you have done so once before from not being alive. Surely it isn't required that you would have an identical future, that is outer circumstances. And really, how could you keep something when you are dead that makes it impossible for you to live again? I don't think that you even have to have an identical inner (that sound quite religious, after all you change all your life), cause then you could be anyone who is exactly like you. You have to be a certain machine we call you, else anyone could be anyone. If you are only a machine, what is happiness and how can you sence it? If you are not a certain machine as you are when you die, then you could become anyone couldn't you?

When you are not even yourself, then you are not anything that anyone can point at, just like you were before you were born. You would not be a certain machine, hence you can become anyone, that would explain how you despite being "so advanced" could even be created in "perfection"

And really, how could you keep something when you are dead that makes it impossible for you to live again?

aslongest my mind isnt digitlised i wont live again since I is my synapotic pathways in the brain and they are destroyed and by that i am dead, my body can be recreated but the mind isnt me

I don't think that you even have to have an identical inner (that sound quite religious, after all you change all your life), cause then you could be anyone who is exactly like you

if you clone my mind in a identical body and we go out form the machine looking at each other its still 2 different persons, we share common genetic/biological structure and a common past but since there is a time before we reconise and see each other it isnt the same person since we have experienced thigns different and analysed them different. We are 2 different person since we also have 2 different brains defining us in 2 different ways. There is a part in the brain telling you what is you and if it malfunctions you dont know whats you or whats a part of you or anything.

If you are only a machine, what is happiness and how can you sence it?

its my mind analysing information and drawing conclution its good and reward itself by making my councius mind feeling happiness wich will stimulate it to repeat what ever caused this happiness and by that often increase your survival rate in one way or an other. I sense it simply by my mind analysing the info and stimualting it in certain ways, it can be reproduced in a machine when its processing power begin to match our brains.

just like you were before you were born.

this concept is irrelevant and useless since my talking about somethigns existens before its existens started is foolish and idiotic.

I am me since im made up by a genetical and biological structure that exist in such a way that it cant be reproduced in anyway without instantanesly not bieng me by the fact it accumilate different experiences than i do and analyse it

now stop smocking. And stop babbeling about this its useless and irrelevant. it serves no purpose

Originally Posted by Zelos

And really, how could you keep something when you are dead that makes it impossible for you to live again?

aslongest my mind isnt digitlised i wont live again since I is my synapotic pathways in the brain and they are destroyed and by that i am dead, my body can be recreated but the mind isnt me

I don't think that you even have to have an identical inner (that sound quite religious, after all you change all your life), cause then you could be anyone who is exactly like you

if you clone my mind in a identical body and we go out form the machine looking at each other its still 2 different persons, we share common genetic/biological structure and a common past but since there is a time before we reconise and see each other it isnt the same person since we have experienced thigns different and analysed them different. We are 2 different person since we also have 2 different brains defining us in 2 different ways. There is a part in the brain telling you what is you and if it malfunctions you dont know whats you or whats a part of you or anything.

If you are only a machine, what is happiness and how can you sence it?

1.its my mind analysing information and drawing conclution its good and reward itself by making my councius mind feeling happiness wich will stimulate it to repeat what ever caused this happiness and by that often increase your survival rate in one way or an other. I sense it simply by my mind analysing the info and stimualting it in certain ways, it can be reproduced in a machine when its processing power begin to match our brains.

just like you were before you were born.

this concept is irrelevant and useless since my talking about somethigns existens before its existens started is foolish and idiotic.

I am me since im made up by a genetical and biological structure that exist in such a way that it cant be reproduced in anyway without instantanesly not bieng me by the fact it accumilate different experiences than i do and analyse it

now stop smocking. And stop babbeling about this its useless and irrelevant. it serves no purpose

1. But it ends up with, as you say, a stimuli. a stimuli is an accelerating motion. If it was merely memories, you could get almost infinite amount of stimuli if you as much as ate a cookie. It wouldn't even be a reaction.

But I insist that the stimuli must be merely a reaction, an accelerating motion. Try the rolercoaster yourself. And there is no possible way that the body could read a such any better then a burning stone for instance. It is clear that the synapses in the brain merely swing a bit possibly as a result of the chemical reaction. If that is joy, then what is banging your head? After all, if it is the accelerating motion that is the happiness, since that is all there is to it (i can hardly believe that momentum is happiness, since it only leads to a momentum in a particle, and I imagine that it gives just as much as it gets, it is the release of the photon that is the only reall change, and I don't see why if it is happiness, why it would take a person to read it, after all it is in the particle were the change is.)

Originally Posted by coolaak

Heres a question for you guys... if it's already been asked i apologyze. Personally, if you had to pick would u rather when you die, go to heaven (a place with so sin) and be there for eternity or would you rather not exist.

Personally, i am about 80% sure i would choose non existance. If you are going to a place with no choices because you can only do what is "right" then your not really existing to begin with. Secondly i do not want to be in a place for "eternity", however long that may be.

I don’t like the idea of eternal life. If you live forever, life is not something special anymore. You have al the time to do something, so people would get lazy. There’s nothing like “Carpe Diem” anymore. So I think it might be quite boring to live forever, even under perfect circumstances.

I don’t think afterlife is very different. There is not really something you have to do. You’re just feeling useless etc. Why would you want to achieve something in life? There will be life after it, which won’t end. That’s the kind of spirit you would get with afterlife. No need for good jobs, school and so on.

So if you ask me, I’d prefer “dying”

Originally Posted by Zelos

And really, how could you keep something when you are dead that makes it impossible for you to live again?

aslongest my mind isnt digitlised i wont live again since I is my synapotic pathways in the brain and they are destroyed and by that i am dead, my body can be recreated but the mind isnt me

Then who is the mind?
Before you lived you were not alive, hence you were dead. Your body was created afterwards with your mind in it. As far as i am concerned, you (atleast what will become you) stand infor the same situation again when you are dead again. There couldn't possibly be any difference. Your mind is a part of your body. It is not a holy ghost or something. If your body can be recreated, your mind can be recreated. Don't be such a priest.

There is no difference between being dead and not yet being alive. Dust is dust.

(i can hardly believe that momentum is happiness, since it only leads to a momentum in a particle, and I imagine that it gives just as much as it gets, it is the release of the photon that is the only reall change, and I don't see why if it is happiness, why it would take a person to read it, after all it is in the particle were the change is.)

the acceleration stimulate certain cells wich is intepritated with the adrenaline rush created in the situation as fun. The brain analyse all the information it has about the situation and draw conclutions from it. The same acceleration in a unwanted situation will result in you getting afraid and preparing yourbody for running and such. The will of going there changes the bodies reaction toward the whole thing

Then who is the mind?

The brain is i, But i isnt the brain since its synaptic pathways can be transfered

Before you lived you were not alive, hence you were dead.

no, death is the end of existens not the lack of it. so to be dead you have to have existed

Your body was created afterwards with your mind in it. As far as i am concerned, you (atleast what will become you) stand infor the same situation again when you are dead again

Its very different between the start of existens(birth) and the end(death) my body goes throu no trouble in noneexistens since i dont exist and ahve no trouble. my body/mind develop first in my mothers whom (spelled?) and afterwards i develop on my own but its not until i reach a certain size death as we know it can accure where the organs are developed enough to stop working. before its simply the stop of metabilic process in the cells wich makes the mother reject the featus

Your mind is a part of your body

my mind/i am information stored in a storing unit that is continiusly processed in different ways. Brain serves as storing unit and processing unit. I can exist without my body since i am only information. But as for now i am depended on my body since i cant leave it to be digitlised in anyway. My body is merly a protoype unit for my genetics wich in turn serves as lifesupport for my mind and the entire body.

If your body can be recreated,

the information my body contain can be stored in 2m DNA string

your mind can be recreated.

my mind can contain a significan extra portion of information that isnt stored in DNA and since my mind is changing more than my body its still not the same. I is not the same I as i were 1 second ago therefor 2 Minds can never be the same if they are copied. while 2 bodies can

There is no difference between being dead and not yet being alive. Dust is dust.

no tehre is a differens, if you havent existed there is nothing, while bieng dead is the failuee of your bodies of sustaining life. so tehre is a different stop wasting time on this irrelevant subject

Yeah sure. Perhaps tomorrow you will sell "alive dust" at the cost of twice as much "dead dust". That way you will eventually aford a little telescope with wich you can very well predict the future not to say find your borg friends.

But still, I think you should consider the possibility that we can and most likely will live after we die, not to say never really died but only changed. We change all our life you see, and i can tell you, I haven't died yet (for reall that is). I am the same person as I allways was. You can't go around scared of dying, you have to sort the mystery:
Alive("before alive") = Alive("after alive")?
What is the difference for an alive person between before alive and after alive?
And no more of your teenage "I know everything, i figured it out immediately" way of thinking/trying/not understanding.

Or else you will eventually become so scared of changing into not existing that you forget to live. After all, who says the new change will suffis for you to be yourself? Veery scaary.

But it will.

Yeah sure. Perhaps tomorrow you will sell "alive dust" at the cost of twice as much "dead dust". That way you will eventually aford a little telescope with wich you can very well predict the future not to say find your borg friends.

no

But still, I think you should consider the possibility that we can and most likely will live after we die

how can u be alive when your biological body can never sustain life and you as person is destroyed with the neural synapses in your brain? No you cant, u die

We change all our life you see, and i can tell you, I haven't died yet (for reall that is).

yes, but changing and dieng is different. Your body seas to function and with it you cant change. Your existens end there. Face it

You can't go around scared of dying, you have to sort the mystery:

im not scvared of dying, i have accepted i will die and live on

Alive("before alive") = Alive("after alive")?

i am not alive before i am, i am not alive after. there is no mystery except how you can be so illogical and perhaps even stupid

And no more of your teenage "I know everything, i figured it out immediately" way of thinking/trying/not understanding.

i can ensure you its not that kind, i dont know anything but i know enouch about this world, physical, biological, chemical to realise that death is the end of existens and realise that the kind of thinking before and after death is irrelevant since it has nothing to do with reality

Or else you will eventually become so scared of changing into not existing that you forget to live.

no, i am not afraid of none-existiens(death) i have accepted it and there is nothing to be afraid of, why be afraid of the inevdible? those who are afraid are those who think of a after life to satefy their need of eternal existens, i can live with my limited time. I am acctualy more afraid of getting old and senile

realise it, you will end existing, thinking about existens before your fertilisation is irrelevant, thinking about existens after death is irrelevant and pathetic and is only cause your afraid of death

Quote:
Alive("before alive") = Alive("after alive")?

"i am not alive before i am, i am not alive after. there is no mystery except how you can be so illogical and perhaps even stupid"

Then dust is dust, just as I said, and you can be again.
If before alive is equal with after alive for you, then you can become alive after you are dead since you became alive after you were not alive before.

then you can become alive after you are dead since you became alive after you were not alive before.

no, youre not capable, the slightest change in synaptic pathways isnt me and to get so exacxct is impossible

Perhaps it doesn't have to get exact. We are not very exact creatures.

"We are nothing more than a self generated contemplation of what life might be like if a universe came into existence." - Ron Jones.

The self, for instance, don't need memory or to think of something special to be conscious. I think a simple particle fullfill the requirements of being alive. It has enough memory and it thinks enough. What it thinks about doesn't matter.

Interesting posts guys,


Tonight I was just at a residence where 4 adults of good character, no drinking, no drugs, religious beliefs that do not allow "ghosts" to exist. Each one of them claims to have heard voices, smelled odors not associated with their apartment, and to have been told to "get out" by an older woman's voice. One gentleman woke up with scratch marks on him. He has also witnessed a glowing blue ball, the size of a baseball, move through the living room and around a corner and into the hallway. Through the door. The building they live in had an old lady and an old man who died in the apartment directly below them. They are european and are well known in the local community, the apartment below theirs doesn't seem to hold tenants for more than a few months at a time. A construction worker was hired to redo the tiling in that suite and he had flat out said that the place was "haunted" without even knowing any of the history of the location. He had told the building caretaker that he witnessed his tools being pushed by an unseen forces around on the floor, in different directions.


When I was there, of course, nothing happened.


I have witnessed some paranormal things in my last year of going around with a local paranormal group. Most of the people I meet tend to come from dignified positions. A doctor, a police officer, an engineer, three small business owners, a vice-principal at a school, and a rabbi have been some of the people who have contacted us for advice on paranormal activity in their homes.


Let's assume for a second, please, that spirits are real. Now the question remains, do you reincarnate? or do you exist in heaven/hell?


I personally like to believe that as a soul, you may be able to choose where to go. After all, my belief is that the only reason why the universe exists is to experience itself. The human body is something we feel with. Chances are, we cannot interact with much in a spirit form, we might be able to go places and see things you would never be able to do as a person, but you can't taste, feel, hear, see, touch, and feel the wide range of emotions that we as human beings crave so much. Damnit, I REALLY could go for some pecan pie right now, a big cold glass of milk, all while being fed to me by my busty girlfriend. That is one of the best human experiences.


I hope that somehow we get to choose where and when we're born. All this must be hidden from us while we're in physical form, if you knew that you could just get back out and back into a body, what's stopping you from just "re-rolling" your character through suicide? Then again, there probably must be some laws in the spiritual realm as well...


Or I could just die, rot, and cease to exist completely. What's the point of even posting this then? The idea of simply ceasing to be completely just makes everything so futile.

Yes, a good question! Anyone who bothers to really think about it has to come to the same conclusion because we cannot always be happy since we cannot appreciate anything except by contrasting it with what we had before or what other people have. Also, we would grow real tired of streets of gold and always having goureme food, having everything done for us, no challenges, no struggle and then victory, nothing to aspire to, etc.

When driving through the South I grew so tired of becautiful scenery that I actually longed to see a barren desert, a slum or even an oil spill!

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

i heard it said that we have a beginning in the womb, and so our ending is when our biological body dies because that is what science tells us. well since this is a philosophical discussion section ill get a little deep here. what if i said i have memories of pre-birth, and that i have a vivid memory of being above the earth with a sphere of energy telling me i was going to be born on this planet? this memory has been with me ever since i became self aware in this life. if this happened the biological beginning is the same as the biological end. life and death are just transitional phases. also i had a very interesting childhood, with several involuntary out of body experiences i KNOW were not dreams. going by experience and not what religion or the religion of science says, the body is a vessel and nothing else. you can choose to keep your vessel in good shape, like some people choose to keep their car nice and clean, but in the end it is just a vehicle and nothing else. it dies but you go on.

If you can become alive, then ipso facto you are not alive before you were alive.

How can you become you if there is no you to become you, and if you can become you without being you why shouldn't you be able to do it again.

yeh i used to think like you when i was 7 years old. which led me to believe in the necessity for reincarnation for a while. then i realised what the problem was.

your definition of "you" is the problem. what is "you" and what makes "you" (or "I") a separate entity from every other thing, and what gives it consciousness and selfawareness. well it is the body and nothing more (brain included), and the reason that "you" are not "I" or "him" is because of the physical separation of your body from theirs leading to a separate consciousness.

now what does it mean to say that "you" came out of nothing. well it goes without saying doesnt it. and ofcourse "you" will end when you die, because "you" is nothing more than your bodies perception of itself. unless there is a physical connection (survival of brain and memory), then the "you" has effectively ended when death occurs.

"you" are not some consciousness that exists outside the body walking around jumping to another body and making that body the "you".
the body is the "you".