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  1. #1 "nothing" 
    Forum Junior Artemis's Avatar
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    Is it possible to ‘be’ nothing? For example: if the universe would be nothing, would it exist? I know this is difficult to answer for you can question the meaning of the word existence and nothing, but please try?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Sophomore Matt Lacey's Avatar
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    Hmm. Well, existence implies something... so if the Universe existed... then it wouldn't be nothing. However, if the universe was a perfect vacuum and contained exactly nothing... would it actually be a universe if there was nothing in it?

    In that case then... so long as the universe exists, nothing is a physical impossibility.

    Now please excuse me, my brain is full


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  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Let's use ghosts as an example.
    Let's further assume they don't exist.
    But are ghosts then 'something' or 'nothing'?

    :?
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  5. #4  
    Forum Sophomore Matt Lacey's Avatar
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    Then they'd be a metaphysical possibility... I guess.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lacey
    However, if the universe was a perfect vacuum and contained exactly nothing... would it actually be a universe if there was nothing in it?
    is a vacuum sealed tuperware container something or nothing?
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  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore Matt Lacey's Avatar
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    It's something, it just has *nothing* in it. If you think of the Universe as all there is, nothing outside of it, then it's all self-contained - an absence of the Universe wouldn't be something with nothing in it, it'd be an absence of any something altogether
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    matter cant be created and cant be destroyed. this means matter has no begining no end. created=begining. destroyed=end. it is clear to see we are talking about "nothing" here. Yes, it's possible.
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  9. #8  
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    Depends on how you define
    this "nothing"...

    If "nothing" is lack of something... Then its possible
    but also must notice that "nothing" will become
    rather unstable term (since nothing is really nothing if
    there isn't something)...

    If "nothing" prefers some sort of "negative" existence
    (I mean kind of non-existing existence)...
    Then it would be harder to declare.
    We must ask if the nothing is really nothing if it exists.

    Or what if you state "nothing as reflection of existence?
    How it differs from those examples above?
    Machina multa minax minitatur maxima muris

    Carminis Iliaci libros consumpsit asellus. O Fatum Troiae! Aut ecus aut asinus!

    Vita regit Fortuna, non sapientia!
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal
    Depends on how you define
    this "nothing"...
    id say "nothing" as in "no matter"
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  11. #10  
    Forum Junior Artemis's Avatar
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    What if we assume that nothing is Zero. So: no molecules, electrons or whatever, just .... nothing
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  12. #11  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    If nothing is there will be nothing and nothing will happen. A universe with nothing doesnt exist since with nothing a universe cant be.

    Humanity is nothing
    We are borg
    We are something
    We will perfect humanity
    We will make humanity something
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    what if something and everything happened all at once? is that nothing?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealOtter
    what if something and everything happened all at once? is that nothing?
    No it's just an headache
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  15. #14  
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    PLS don't throw me out of this forum for quoting wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing

    But what do you mean by 'nothing'?
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  16. #15  
    Forum Junior Bettina's Avatar
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    To me, nothing, in its absolute meaning, is the total lack of everything seen or unseen.

    However, I don't believe there was ever nothing. There was always something even if it was only unseen radiation, or dark energy.

    If there were truly nothing then our universe would never have come into existence because there would have been nothing to cause it to happen.

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  17. #16  
    Forum Junior Bettina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess
    PLS don't throw me out of this forum for quoting wikipedia
    Why.... Wikipedia is a great source with links to even greater sources. I have used it extensively all through high school and continue with it in my first year college. I love it. :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    To me, nothing

    However, I don't believe there was ever nothing. There was always something even if it was only unseen radiation, or dark energy.

    If there were truly nothing then our universe would never have come into existence because there would have been nothing to cause it to happen.

    Bettina
    Why is it better to say there was always something and not that there was always nothing?
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  19. #18  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    what if something and everything happened all at once? is that nothing?
    its something then and something after but nothing will happen. that universe dont have a time dimension only space
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  20. #19  
    Forum Junior Artemis's Avatar
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    "nothing" is a very hard word to explain indeed. If we said nothing and we would mean "no matter" then nothing wouldn't be a useful word. "what is that over there?" "ohh, nothing". That wouldn't be true. Because we had the need of the word "nothing" nothing should mean "something", but then in a different way

    This doesn't make sense, does it?
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    "nothing" is a very hard word to explain indeed. If we said nothing and we would mean "no matter" then nothing wouldn't be a useful word. "what is that over there?" "ohh, nothing". That wouldn't be true. Because we had the need of the word "nothing" nothing should mean "something", but then in a different way

    This doesn't make sense, does it?
    i still think it can be nothing. what is that over there?? call it whatever you wanna call it... it still gonna be the same thing. and because it the same thing dont make it exist, just means its in ur reality.

    i think it is best looked at if you try to explain what was the begining of something? you just can't keep tracing it back.
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  22. #21  
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    Nothing is more an mathematical concept, than a real one. There is always something even if you made an empty space : there would be some neutrino dwelling around.
    Same go for infinite. infinite is a mathematical concept. even the universe is not infinite : people think that there is only 10 exp 80 protons in the universe
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  23. #22  
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    Nothing is more an mathematical concept, than a real one.
    I agree, at least it is easier seen that way.

    Same go for infinite. infinite is a mathematical concept. even the universe is not infinite
    Agree
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  24. #23  
    Forum Junior Artemis's Avatar
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    Then why did we even have need for words like "nothing" and "infinite" if there is no such thing?
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    Nothing is more an mathematical concept, than a real one. There is always something even if you made an empty space : there would be some neutrino dwelling around.
    Same go for infinite. infinite is a mathematical concept. even the universe is not infinite : people think that there is only 10 exp 80 protons in the universe
    So when you say "There's nothing in there you really mean it?

    Not sure I'd agree that is a maths concept.....

    In maths nothing is just 'zero' I thought..

    Artemis, infinity is required in maths as a tool to help solve problems.

    There are many things that 'do not exist' that we have words for. When was the last time you picked up a handful of 'this' ? 'tall' does not exist.
    just think of infinite that way, an aide to understanding. Damn this bottle.....
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    Two men crouch down in an open field right before dawn and look through some brush.

    What can you see? The first one asks to the other.
    Nothing, the second man answers back.

    Two different men meet back up after a foraging expedition.

    They ask eachother what they found. One man reaches into his pockets and gets out five apples. "Five apples!" he says. "You?" The other man reaches into his pockets and pulls out nothing. "Ten apples!!" he says.
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  27. #26  
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    nothing does not exist! okay, without nothing there is something so there is no beginning therefore no end. terefore there was always something...maybe nothing is somethong else...like space...ok its late, im tired and im confusing myself
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  28. #27  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    Nothing is the lack of something
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  29. #28  
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    Nothing is something and antisomething in the same place, right? But I don't think it could have begun with nothing. Very rare scenario.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Nothing is something and antisomething in the same place, right? But I don't think it could have begun with nothing. Very rare scenario.
    Does that mean you are adding nothing to this debate?
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  31. #30  
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    The debate was nothing to start with :-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Nothing is something and antisomething in the same place, right? But I don't think it could have begun with nothing. Very rare scenario.
    something+antisomething=0

    0 is the answer to everything
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    Yes, the vector sum of the universe is zero.
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  34. #33  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    there is no such thing as anti-somthing
    the opposite of something is nothing. therefor your calcualtions are all wrong
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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    Photons, masses, particles moving along other coordinates, together they all have the vektorsum 0.
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  36. #35  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    "Nothing" is what is between the ears of most tv network executives. 8)
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968
    "Nothing" is what is between the ears of most tv network executives. 8)
    true that
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  38. #37  
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    We are drifitng off topic, but it should be noted that the TV executives you mention are making a great deal of money by providing what the mass of the public considers to be good entertainment.

    Who was it who said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public"?
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    You have to be happy with what you've got. The tv for example, is better then sitting in a totaly quiet room with no light. Compared to that, most things are good. Unless you're sleeping ofcourse. The tv is ok, but then what is a good meal? Superb i guess. But you can't eat all your life and neither can you watch tv. If that is the case then talk to a parent.
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  40. #39  
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    what about silence??? will we ever truly hear nothing??? there is alsways noise or sound around us!!! i am not talking about deafness though!
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    Good question. I just repeated my sony walkman when I read what you wrote. I guess you would explode if you were in complete vacuum. Other then that, what color is black? Can you see black? Is black a color? Do all colors exist, or is there some weird magic forbidden color that god stole from the rainbow cause it was, as jesus, to crossnailed? What do you think, is silence what you hear between the sounds, and if you freeze time, isn't at any given frozen moment, your eardrum still?
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  42. #41  
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    well what exactly is in between the sounds?? the definition of sound is the movement of air particles in the atmosphere....which makes us think, things are in constant motion therefore air particles are always moving therefore sound is always being produced. we only pick up the sounds between 20hz and 20kHz on average....so maybe "silence" is our way of percieving frequencies in the frequency ranges we are not able to hear...if u freeze time...well yes i think everything no matter how miniscual is still....since motion needs time as a reference...in a way its dependanton time. asfor colour...hmmm maybe like we only hear a certain frequency range, we only see a certain spectrumof colours?? i dont know? what would another colour look like?
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  43. #42  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    The tv for example, is better then sitting in a totaly quiet room with no light.
    Millions of bhuddists, Christian monks, ascetics, amd the merely contemplative would disagree totally with your statement.
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  44. #43  
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    I accept that.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNeedles
    asfor colour...hmmm maybe like we only hear a certain frequency range, we only see a certain spectrumof colours?? i dont know? what would another colour look like?
    There are an infinite number of colours, our eyes have three basic types of colour receptors (some animals and fish have 4 types) ours are red, blue and green each colour type is 'broadband' that is the red type responds to a wide variety of reds up to yellow where the green recptor overlaps and goes on upto cyan and then the overlapping blue receptors tail off just before UV light. this represents just under an octave of the electromagnetic spectrum which has a width from 0+ to 10^43 hertz.

    Our eyes have evolved to respond to most of the light spectra emitted from the sun. Goldfish are the creatures (if I remember correctly) that have the widest optical range in nature, they can 'see' from infrared right up to ultra-violet.
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  46. #45  
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    Black is the absence of color and it exists. Obviously, so do silence the absence of movement. A particle is still compared to itself if it has no inner movement ie. photons, base particles.
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