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Thread: Humans and Animals

  1. #1 Humans and Animals 
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    Do humans and animals have the same purpose?


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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    A) What do you think the purpose of humans is?
    B) What do you think the purpose of animals is?
    C) Does A = B ?

    My answer would be yes, in general, but the details differ (e.g. bees have to pollinate flowers but we, in general, don't).


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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I don't know A or B but all animals seem to do is eat and or kill things, humans make and invent things which seems to show a difference.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    But is that our purpose or something we do to pass the time until we figure out what our purpose is.

    Or ...

    Sorry, I thought you said "porpoise".
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    But don't people figure out there purpose as they get older like what they want or think they should be doing with their lives?
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Apparently some do. I haven't yet. And I think might be running out of time ...
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    The opening question presupposes that there is a purpose for humans and for animals. Since science tneds to the view that either it will not investigate purpose, or that purpose does not exist, then the question is not relevant to science.
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    All animals, including humans, Of course have the same purpose: to have sex and reproduce, and no that doesn't take getting older.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  10. #9  
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    "Purpose" would seem to imply some sort of intelligent designer who has a purpose in mind for people's lives. In this case, if one thinks there has to be a purpose, one should seek the answer in one's favorite religious text.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeLord View Post
    Do humans and animals have the same purpose?
    I am of the opinion that humans and animals have far more in common than we may care to profess. The main difference that I observe is that humans seem to require there be a purpose for their existence while animals seem quite satisfied in pursuing existence as a goal unto itself.

    Perhaps Eric Fromm states it best:
    Man is the only animal for whom his own existence is a problem which he has to solve. Fromm, Erich
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  12. #11  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Purpose is a relative term and impossible to define universally when it comes to something like life.

    You can define what certain animals do as a part of their life cycle, but you cannot attribute that to a purpose. That implies that they were created with meaning and intended to achieve some kind of goal. While they may fill spaces in our ecological system wherein they provide a service to the whole system, you still cannot claim that is their purpose.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    To a human a cow has a purpose as food. So the question is: what does a cow see as our purpose? I'll wager it sees no purpose for us at all. Cows are pretty smart.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  14. #13  
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    All life is good at doing one thing and one thing only, convert energy/matter. The evolution of genetic organisms and the evolution of human intellect constantly increases the rate of this conversion.
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    How does life convert energy to matter?
    Last edited by KALSTER; September 23rd, 2012 at 09:09 AM.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    How does life convert energy to matter
    Photosynthesis? All other life converts matter back to energy, I suspect.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    How does life convert energy to matter
    i didnt say that it is converting energy to matter, what i said was to treat matter and energy as the same thing. Matter and energy is being converted in to a compatible organic form to become part of the biosphere or anything that supports it.
    Last edited by bulle; September 23rd, 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    How does life convert energy to matter
    Photosynthesis? All other life converts matter back to energy, I suspect.
    That's just using solar energy to rearrange matter though, rather than to create actual particles that didn't exist before. But I see bulle meant something else, so never mind.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  19. #18  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Imo theres no outworldly objective purpose for both the animals we call animals and for the animals we call humans. Purpose, like words, are human fabrications.

    If i had to invent a purpose, i would say human help increase the complexity of structured molecular/information patterns (and are a result of existing environmental structured complexity patterns).
    as opposed to hydrogen drifting in space.
    Last edited by icewendigo; September 26th, 2012 at 08:27 PM.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    'Purpose' is a concept, a term of language which is a construct of humans to fill the need to communicate increasingly more complex ideas. Language continues to evolve, to create new words to address our broadening experience.

    Humans and animals are all manifestations of life, the observable action of which appears to be to replicate and proliferate wherever there is a niche habitat with conditions that make this possible. To this end, life is demonstrably variable and frequently quite adaptable.

    As for our psychological need to contemplate a purpose for our existence, I suggest that our existence represents the law of conservation of energy in action. Where appropriate conditions exist, life arises and enjoys it's finite journey on the path of least resistance before observing the law that energy is neither created nor destroyed, merely transformed.

    No purpose, merely process.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    "Purpose" would seem to imply some sort of intelligent designer who has a purpose in mind for people's lives. In this case, if one thinks there has to be a purpose, one should seek the answer in one's favorite religious text.
    I am sure John Galt is correct when he says "the question is not relevant to science" but I believe it is perfectly rational to think that our species has a purpose, and to state what that is, without implying the need for an intelligent designer who has "put" us here for a purpose.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeLord View Post
    Do humans and animals have the same purpose?
    Yes, to evolve.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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  23. #22  
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    Purpose is an object to be attained. Intention. Aim. Design.

    Humans and other Animals have different purposes but also share a lot of the same purposes.

    Survive, be healthy, live are all purposes that we all have.


    Your purpose is your reason to act in some way.

    Humans have a lot of different purposes.

    My body can has a purpose to me, be it may also have a purpose to somebody else.
    It has multiple purposes, multiple reasons why it does what it does, multiple aims to fullfill, multiple desings to get what it wants.
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  24. #23  
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    I love threads like this.

    Just so much.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeLord View Post
    Do humans and animals have the same purpose?
    That depends, most animals just struggle to survive and this is their purpose, sadly there are many parts of the world in which humans find it also such a struggle to survive they haven't any time or energy for anything else. But this said for many of us we decide on our own purpose, we set our own goals and we try and do things that make us happy and to help others as and when we can. In this we differ and this is an important distinction because in enables us to be more than just a series of chemical reactions and enables to exercise our free will.
    “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

    Bertrand Russell
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  26. #25  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Is this sense of 'purpose' an evolutionary trait?

    Without a sense of 'purpose' would we have evolved at the same rate?

    Would we be less likely to struggle to survive without a sense of 'purpose'?

    Animals observably do not relinquish life readily. They must observe continued existence as a 'purpose', in my opinion.

    Life is it's own purpose, yet humans are frequently of the opinion that we must have a 'higher' purpose. Consider that all of our organizational structures (cultural, economic, political) all serve the function of conferring some form of advantage to those who belong to such structures.

    The sense of 'purpose' must somehow confer an advantage to my way of thinking. That these purposes may be different among us would be a logical extension of diversity increasing the odds of survival.
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