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About LinkBacksWhy are we here even when we know that everthing will end and die . Everthing dies.. Give me something that can live forever
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July 28th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Why are we here even when we know that everthing will end and die . Everthing dies.. Give me something that can live forever
We are here because we don't like the alternative.
Whats the alternative ?
There are only two. Live. Or die.
No one can aswer this question for you, I'm afraid. In particular, science does not have any answer.Originally Posted by IWANTTOKNOWMORE
Very simple answer of not wanting the alternative of death.
Possibly, we are here to find out why we are alive.
The question “why are we here?” assumes there is an answer.
Why should there be an answer?
Why should there be a meaning to life?
Yes we know everything will end and die.
Everything, everyone, every star…
I think the individual’s consciousness could be considered to be alive forever, as far as that individual is concerned. This is a Solipsistic approach. The individual will never witness his own death completely. His/her death will never be properly observed.
The individual is forever alive, trapped in this forever instant, where there is the immaculate illusion of time passing, of previous days and days to come.
Science can know how...but never why !!!
George S. Patton
Ralph Waldo Emerson
For IWANTOKNOWMORE. You are here for a very good reason. This will become clear to you when you have studied all of westwinds Post(e)s. You have something to offer to the Members of Science Forum. We need your intelligent input. Think about it. What is it that you have to offer? What do you know that would be of benefit to Mankind? I can't imagine what it might be, it boggles my mind. But there it is. Now go for it. Just one other thing. Could you possibibly help paint that old lady's house just down the street, that would be nice? westwind.
Well, technically there are immortal animals around.
And as for the "why": the "why" is a human fabrication and asking "why" is akin to thinking the Universe revolves around you.
Well, I believe in God. So I believe it was because God wanted to see who would believe in Him and gain eternal life after death. This may, or may not answer your question but then again, I doubt anything could answer such a meaningful question.
In the medieval age, a monk and a soldier decided on a bet. They would race to see who could find the purpose of life first.
The soldier set out, rushing through a village asking the people if they knew. A woman in the village said her brother was wounded and sick and pleaded for help, but he had a higher purpose and ignored her. He would then rush on again through forests, mountains and rivers. He would ask everyone on the way, and in his obsession - he even started asking the trees, rivers and mighty mountains. But noone could give him an answer. Mad with obsession the soldier got his horse and decided to widen the search to the world. He crossed deserts, tundras, snowy mountains with biting cold and treatcherous swamps.
Meanwhile the monk had started the quest aswell. He would enter the nearest village and taste the fruit, smell the air and talk with the people. A boy in the village was sick and bleeding, so he helped him and took his time. The monk stayed abit longer to make sure he was out of danger, and would end up falling in love with the sister. Under a starlight sky they made love and had children. And the monk forgot all about his quest, spending his life there.
The soldier would continue the quest riding as far as he could each day, ask every person on the road and continue trough the roughest of terrain to the furthest places on the earth. Deep into uncharted territory he would brave perilous danger and fight barbarians, dangerous animals, freezing wind and scorching heat.
One day the Monk was told to come help as a wounded man had come to the village drained of energy. His hair and beard was white. He had grievous wounds, blisters and scars. His stare was empty and sad. He looked thrice his age and was a broken man both mentally and physically. The monk tried to nourish him back to life as the soldier recognized him and the village both.
"You! This village... I remember it now. We were on a quest to find the purpose of life. We started here. I have traveled the world and did not find it. Have you even been looking?"
The monk gave him water. "Im so sorry. I gave up the quest, and I never found the answer"
The soldier looked the monk in the eyes and didnt believe him. Because his eyes were filled with purpose, content and happiness. The dying soldier was lain in the soft grass by the village mill at the top of a small hill the following day. To get a last look at the stars before he died as he had wished for. He gave up the chase and accepted death. And so it happened that every breath felt wonderful. Time almost stopped as he would crawl abit to the left to place his hand in the cool river water. The wind was gentle and soothing. The wine he had been given and bread along with it, was the best thing he had ever tasted and the stars above was mesmerizingly beautiful. It took 2 more hours before he died, but when he did he thought "This day has felt longer than the rest of my entire life". When he gave up looking for meaning, he found one.
Then giant spacehamster aliens from the future, in giant fusion powered deathrobots - decended from the sky with laserguns and killed everyone. Harvested all humans for bio-organic energy to fuel their coffee machines. The leader of the space hamsters: "Zhargooth the furry death" (From alpha centauri), laughed an evil laugh while he took FIVE CUPS OF SUGAR IN THE COFFEE AND SANG THE RUSSIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM FROM THE FUTURE BACKWARDS DRESSED IN A CLOWN COSTUME.
Last edited by Raziell; August 12th, 2012 at 06:39 PM.
How do we know there is death waiting for us .
How do we know?
1. Because not one of our great-great-great-grandparents is still with us.
2. Because we are surrounded by living things other than people and it's very easy to observe that every single plant, animal, insect, bird, fish, reptile dies. Some time or another. Many of them live for only a matter of hours. A very few trees survive for 1000 years+. But they all die.
Earth is our final destination!
To test your particular combination of genes...it's that simple.
Most people don't think that way, or they'd be out multiplying like rabbits.To test your particular combination of genes...it's that simple.
I only had one kid as well....our intelligence sometimes short circuits the most basil but consistent and irrefutable reason for all life.Most people don't think that way, or they'd be out multiplying like rabbits.
So, Lynx Fox, like Spawning Salmon we come home to Planet Earth to lay our eggs for the next Generation? No, that dosen't seem likely. Well, what then?. We, like all Specie, have a strong need to procreate. We are hard at it all the time. We kill each other off, is this killing business a hang over from ancient Tribal rivalry? Selection of the fittest which no longer applies? So we have kids. We look after the kids we have. We help them on with their lives. They have Kids. We, as Grandparents are already fading into the background by this time. We resent this. I do. So Nature and everyone else knows that I will not be called on to father more children. ( I'm 78, and no picasso or charlie chaplin ), Move away Granpa, make room for the young who will parent the next Generation. Mindless, or so it seems. What is the rational behind this? Keep on keeping on. Are the best years of Mankind behind us? What further high point is ahead of us? Have we got to go on forever chasing the Rainbow? Or are we allowed by the Creators of Life to have a short time in Human Form before passing into the next Kingdom? Sometimes I think we are, in some way Harvested, Salvaging bits and pieces of us that will be useful to some bloody Alien Life form travelling around in some form or other. westwind.
Nah, the length of human life is useful for fostering the next generation of genes. The elderly frequently help out with childcare duties. Of course, there will be many exceptions as evolution is an unguided, messy process. But this trait, on average, over millions of years, has helped the species survive
edit - I also want to pick up on what you said "selection of the fittest which no longer applies". This is only true if we take 'fittest' to mean attributes such as physical strength, endurance, running speed etc. These factors, whilst enormously helpful in certain periods of our evolutionary past (when we hunted animals for subsistence), are less vital today due to technology. HOWEVER this doesn't mean selection no longer applies. Over many years, whichever traits are the best 'fit' for the current environment, in terms of passing on genes, will cause those traits to pass in greater frequency to the next generation.
In particular, a high rate of reproduction will always be selected for. That's never going to go out of style.
Your god seems so human...modelled after a king ... theres other possibilities:
Life is the universes way of reproducing themselves... as life consumes the free energy in the universe it weakens the fabric of space... and eventually life escapes the universe... creating new universes with the same natural laws as our parent universe.
Our individual lives perhaps have no personal meaning but the effect of our lives will be important to the universe
We are just like photocopiers, ready to pass over our genes for the next generation. All the thinking and other activities we pursue are unecessary added material to our lives.
alternately
as/re global warming
Over thousands of generations we were bred by great Ghia to be the lords of fire.
We are here to extend this interglacial, melt the poles, and finally end this current ice age.
(but, then again, I could be wrong?)
I don't know about you, but I'm here to have fun.
I think that when you are (old) like me, you will understand your question better.
When I was your age I would get scared sometimes, or feel as you do now.
I believe in a few years, you will be able to answer your question (yourself.)
Have fun, and take care of yourself,
Chad.
You said, Give me something that can live forever?
Maybe the human species, (if humans can get out of the control of republicans, and those on the political right.)
You pose me a question that no man may answer, IWANTTOKNOWMORE, for there is none who can define or demonstrate 'forever', therefore my reply is nothing more that the best theory or concept that I can put forth based on my own experience to date and the thoughts of others. The question you ask, "Why are we even here..." is perhaps as good an example as any of an idea that seems to have the potential to 'live' forever.
Life is it's own riddle. A question without an answer and the answer to the question at the same time, yet no two answers are quite the same. We may allow ourselves to be frustrated and perplexed or we can accept that we were born knowing the answer yet by the 'rules of the game', though we bleat the answer, none can hear us.“Man is the only animal for whom his own existence is a problem which he has to solve”
“There is only one meaning of life: the act of living itself.”
Erich Fromm quotes (German born American social Philosopher and Psychoanalyst, 1900-1980
It is something that each of us must discover for ourselves.
There really isnt any reason to fear death.
As Epicurus put it: Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.
There is another good quote (Dont remember author) that goes something like "Peasant or king, they both rot the same beneath the sun". Looking at it at short term; we are so many people that one life doesent matter. Looking at it on the long term, earth cant survive the universe in the long run - so in the end all we do in life is ultimately futile as we are soon all gone and forgotten.
Therefore, fearing not being alive - OR - fearing death, are both illogical in my opinion. Point being: Enjoy life, in the end it wont matter. As for the "Why are we here", noone knows. But why is it important? You dont need a purpose in life to enjoy it. Infact - not having a purpose at all means total freedom. People who dedicate themselves to something in life to give it purpose, may enjoy life because they feel they have a purpose. But that doesent change the fact that there is no inherent purpose. You can also approach it by asking "Why not?" life is free, just do what you want with it. People who need a purpose to justify living depresses me. Those are usually living in some delusional idea that they are valuable. In a world where your life, your planet and the very universe is finite - there is no value to anything imo. Because as you say - if it doesent last forever then being in stage 1 of progress or stage 100 is equally meaningless.
If a glass is falling towards the floor, it doesent matter if its empty or full.
I beg to differ. Cleaning up broken glass (empty) is a lot easier than cleaning up a glass that is full of red wine when it breaks.
Then again, if you are referencing only the state of falling and not the impact, then I suppose it is of less concern unless the orientation changes and one has a falling spill or splash transpiring.
Just messing with your analogy. Good post.
Oh well, if we are messing with the analogy, it also depends which half of the glass is empty: Glass Half Empty
Good one, Strange, lol...
Soul, is as light, and as such is not subjected to time: And in like, functions in time but is not of time; This being the case forever has no say, it excists outside of it
Does that then mean if a soul is not subjected to time it could occupy multiple people that are alive at the same time? Or in your book is the soul a one shot deal with no reincarnation?
Have you seen the movie Star Wars? The Good the Bad the Ugly? Braveheart? Why did you bother since you know any movie you watch will end?
We are here for no reason; the product or total chaos. Everything dies and nothing can live forever. Your brain has been trying to solve answers to these questions when all you need to do is accept the reality of them, that there is no truth behind this question. It just is the way it is and you have to accept that.
I can find an answer to questions I have in life as they have been asked by me, nobody else will be satisfied or understand but I hope that for me when I am old and dying and knowing I am reaching the end, that I answered questions, some of them and more importantly realise that some of the questions I asked never had an answer to begin with. Truth just is, and so are we at least for a while. That kind of makes me feel better about myself. All of reality is you.
Supposition: Quantum Causality exists and there are 3 types of fundemental causal entities: simple, recurrent, and evolutionary.
For now, ignore all the other relationships that can form let's say string theory or Higgs Field and focus on evolutionary.
Everything observable is in a state of change; i.e. eveolutionary.
We evolved as a natural product of quantum causality; i.e. why we exist.
But quantum causality lives in a continuum; nothing does not exist relative to our observations. Nowehere in our causal universe does nothing exist.
If other universes exist, than an infinite number of other universes may exist as part of a continuum. Therefore, our universe has some probability of being finite.
If our universe is finite and exists unrelated to time (forever), then at some point every finite state will repeat.
Therefore, we never die. We repeat an infinite number of times.
Happy Birthday.
What are you talking about.Supposition: Quantum Causality exists and there are 3 types of fundemental causal entities: simple, recurrent, and evolutionary.
Ok, lets ignore everything we know about the universe that will make your theory more credible won't it.For now, ignore all the other relationships that can form let's say string theory or Higgs Field and focus on evolutionary.
So we recount evolution and then embrace it? What are you talking about you are contradicting yourself and not even aware of it.Everything observable is in a state of change; i.e. eveolutionary.
Well this is true.We evolved as a natural product of quantum causality; i.e. why we exist.
What has the observation of nothing or not observing nothing have to do with reasoning behind our existence?But quantum causality lives in a continuum; nothing does not exist relative to our observations. Nowehere in our causal universe does nothing exist.
Alternate univeres or other universes per se are the function of other dimensions, dimensions have magnitude and direction and eventually have an end as well. Everything is fintite.If other universes exist, than an infinite number of other universes may exist as part of a continuum. Therefore, our universe has some probability of being finite.
Well no not at all, some models have predicted the longest possible time the universe can exist or that time can exist as we know it, so there is a finite end to a finite number of interactions that will happen, they will not repeat; they are done.If our universe is finite and exists unrelated to time (forever), then at some point every finite state will repeat.
Hogwash which is based on more hogwash.Therefore, we never die. We repeat an infinite number of times.
Indeed, lay off the cake.Happy Birthday.
I'd like to correct you on that one.
We don't kill ourselves because we are afraid of the alternative. We know what is in this world, whereas we don't know if there is a cruel afterlife.
You can think about when you die your body reverts back to what it's made from, atoms. Those atoms fly away and one day could become a part of a new sun, planet, rock or mineral somewhere in the universe. So imagine that your recycled over and over, becoming part of something new forever because people die but atoms just keep on truckin'!
[smartass mode] To learn to not end sentences with a preposition. [/smartass mode]Why are we even alive for.
Spoken like a true believer. Sorry there is no afterlife, at least I haven't seen any proof that there is. The process of life and death is natural and I have no fear of dying. However I do have a fear of living when the quality of life is no longer worth living. So when I do go I hope it will be quick rather than a lingering painful death.I'd like to correct you on that one.
We don't kill ourselves because we are afraid of the alternative. We know what is in this world, whereas we don't know if there is a cruel afterlife.
But this is the philosophy section. Science may eventually be able to answer all the "how and why" questions, just not today's science.
Life accordingly at one time evolved from non-life for no ultimate reason or purpose. Each human has but one life. It's the individual's choice to live his life wisely for his own decided purposes, or to squander or throw it away. One's own life is the only way that one might provide both a degree of happiness for himself, the satisfaction derived from achieving one's goals, while during its span, to help others achieve their goals while contributing to society.
We are simply here. We are simply alive. And that's a really great thing.
The individual's life is its own purpose. Don't ask for a justification for your life. Your life is its own justification. The fact that you can go out there and live an amazing life is the reason to live.
You only get one life. Make the most if it. Every second you waste is a second you don't get to do again when your time is up.
And don't let anyone tell you that you have a purpose bigger than yourself, such as service to the human race or service to a god. It's just you. It's your life. Do with it what you will. Accomplish something great with it because that's what -you- want for yourself. Not because someone thinks you should serve.
Actually I'm really dead. This is an afterlife. Trouble is no one else except maybe a small few know this is life after death. When I was alive, I lived in a totally different reality to this one. So don't worry about anything, there's another afterlife after this one. That's all it is, an endless succession of afterlifes, I think I'm on my 987,456th one so far. Each one very similar to the next. This one's been Ok so far but looking forward to moving on. Getting bored. My first life was kind of strange, sort of like some wispy spirit thing but it really smelled bad. Gradually improving, believe it or not. I've given up trying to meet the Supreme Being. What I've learned from all this is that nothing really matters. You can't prove me wrong but take it from me, I'm dead proof that this is the afterlife, at least one of them. Oh by the way, there are a scant few here that are on their first life, didn't know that huh?
I forgot to mention that I have joined the Religious Order of Knutters (The Knutterites). I just love religious sects.
Last edited by zinjanthropos; December 20th, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
January 12th, 2013, 01:49 PM
there are only two spirits that are alive one of adam and other of eve. everything was preordained. the number of souls that will be born on earth was decided the day adam and eve copulated. adam and eve are still living through every man and every woman respectively.Fate of human race was decided at the time of adam and eve. After God Almighty only adam and eve will be considered immortal
My dad once told me, "Aaron, you were an accident. But don't feel bad. Cause in the big scheme of things, all of humanity was an accident."
Now, I know your name Aaron.
Soon... very soon...
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
You know so much about this. Where did you learn all this?
Apart from the fact that none of that is demonstrable, let alone provable, let's take a look at your second-to-last sentence.
So everything was known/ pre-ordained from that time?Fate of human race was decided at the time of adam and eve.
In other words whatever "choices" we make haven't actually been choices and therefore any striving to improve our lot and "gain acceptance into heaven" is a waste of time.
We're just going through the motions so that god can... what?
Have a laugh at our expense?
He enjoys watching our futile efforts at redemption?
He likes to watch suffering and struggling?
He's the ultimate sadist?
When did God decide? Did God not determine a course of action before creating A&E?
achieve our targets and die.
Target is different for different types of people. e.g materialists, atheists, nationalists, communists, socialists, etc (there are infinite types of people.) some people have scientific approach and others prefer unscientific approach.
just for a second think if we get infinite life what will we do. are we designed by evolution to live infinite time. we will be bored.
just complete your target and die
Last edited by precious; January 17th, 2013 at 10:53 AM. Reason: spelling
I don't like the idea of dying because it seems like a waste of opportunity, there's just far to many things I want to do, I guess way to many for one lifetime. Perhaps the idea of reincarnation would be cool, give people a chance to do all the things the couldn't in this lifetime. That's why I think we are really here to experience living, anything else is a waste of life. As for something that will live forever, that's a tough one the only thing I can think of is a paradox.
It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.I don't like the idea of dying because it seems like a waste of opportunity, there's just far to many things I want to do, I guess way to many for one lifetime. Perhaps the idea of reincarnation would be cool, give people a chance to do all the things the couldn't in this lifetime. That's why I think we are really here to experience living, anything else is a waste of life. As for something that will live forever, that's a tough one the only thing I can think of is a paradox.
Q. If all people lived forever how much population do we allow before having kids becomes a crime punishable by death?
How do you put to death someone who is immortal?It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.
Q. If all people lived forever how much population do we allow before having kids becomes a crime punishable by death?
If you watch the film "Quartet" you'll find it constantly repeated. "Getting old is not for sissies."It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.
Immortal and indestructible are not necessarily the same thing here. I was thinking immortality for humans would only mean our bodies wouldn't age like we do now. We could still have fatal accidents. A very careful person could live a very long time.How do you put to death someone who is immortal?It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.
Q. If all people lived forever how much population do we allow before having kids becomes a crime punishable by death?
That's a better version of immortality, I was just thinking of bits from 'Death Becomes Her', that would be a real nightmare if you could have horrible accidents and get really messed up and then have to live with it foreverrrr!Immortal and indestructible are not necessarily the same thing here. I was thinking immortality for humans would only mean our bodies wouldn't age like we do now. We could still have fatal accidents. A very careful person could live a very long time.How do you put to death someone who is immortal?It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.
Q. If all people lived forever how much population do we allow before having kids becomes a crime punishable by death?
I wonder if someone has figured out just how many potentially life ending events we are exposed to on average over the course of a lifetime. Let's say you get to sixty and survive a couple of fairly close calls, how long would you have to live on before an event occurs that has a very high probability of ending life, no matter how careful one is?Immortal and indestructible are not necessarily the same thing here. I was thinking immortality for humans would only mean our bodies wouldn't age like we do now. We could still have fatal accidents. A very careful person could live a very long time.How do you put to death someone who is immortal?It's not the dying that bothers me, it's the getting older that bothers me.
Q. If all people lived forever how much population do we allow before having kids becomes a crime punishable by death?
If you could live that long and wanted to die it should be your right for whatever reason.
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