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Thread: Religion for Immortals

  1. #1 Religion for Immortals 
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Don't know why but this just popped into my head. Let's say there are scattered amongst the universe, intelligent life that is immortal. Maybe we even attain immortality one day, who knows? Anyways, would such beings have any use for religion? Gods? Heaven? If you can't die then is afterlife an afterthought? One of the prospects for religious life on this planet at least, is a chance provided to those who die to meet their creator. Well if dying isn't in your repertoire then the chances of hooking up with a deity in an afterlife reality is nil.

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.

    Sorry I'm rambling but I haven't had much time to dwell on this subject. So I would like to hear opinions on whether immortal beings actually require a religion or if they do have religious beliefs just exactly how would they differ from a mere mortal's?


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    They don't need it. They won't fear disease, war, murder - all factors which lead to death. Death and the fear it brings within us mortal human beings is what drives us mostly to believe in a supernatural entity.

    As an immortal being i see myself creating a universe of my own. A universe made up of mortal beings so that i can experience what it is like to be mortal. Immortal beings are to be considered as 'gods'. They have no limits - I suppose

    It's a difficult matter this one as nobody knows what it's like to be immortal..


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    No creature in our Universe could be absolutely invulnerable.With exception of God in religion.
    Even if there would be no biological aging there is no way to stop wars,murders,competition for
    resources,conflicts, etc.Any creature kill each other and will do it in the future.Universe itself is aging and will die.
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    Wow, that is a question for imortals, I am not sure we can determin that question to life if we do not know what death is or life. We know energy is transferable so death cannot be difined as definitive. If we look at life from a point of energy then we can say we are immortals. If we look at it from a point of reincarnation this I mean through our children, then we live on forever. If you were immortal in the sence you are asking I would think your aim would be to achieve mortality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Don't know why but this just popped into my head. Let's say there are scattered amongst the universe, intelligent life that is immortal. Maybe we even attain immortality one day, who knows? Anyways, would such beings have any use for religion? Gods? Heaven? If you can't die then is afterlife an afterthought? One of the prospects for religious life on this planet at least, is a chance provided to those who die to meet their creator. Well if dying isn't in your repertoire then the chances of hooking up with a deity in an afterlife reality is nil.

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.

    Sorry I'm rambling but I haven't had much time to dwell on this subject. So I would like to hear opinions on whether immortal beings actually require a religion or if they do have religious beliefs just exactly how would they differ from a mere mortal's?
    Geeze Louise! You made the font so small that I can't read it! Why would you do that?
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    Being kinda invulnerable, an immortal's worst enemy is complacency. The natural world just doesn't spur. So an immortal must seek further for a Greater Purpose in life. Where else but in the supernatural? Isn't that religion?

    This problem and solution reminds me of drug addicts, whose "purpose of life is to maximize happiness" gets totally pwned by off-the-scale happiness discovered in drugs. Rationally, a short life of suffering is still good if compensated by the insane levels of happiness certain drugs provide. Like the immortal, the addict must find a Greater Purpose. That Greater Purpose must seem irrational to outsiders, but it does the job, because it is irrational.
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    Pong, Don't you think the highest state of human presents is ballance. A state of immortality would be sort of reaching the ultimate state of conscousness, there would be no need for mind, because existence would not be based on matter. The ultimate goal for immortality would be mortality. I guess to answer such a question about immortality would leave religion behind we know not where.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    Pong, Don't you think the highest state of human presents is ballance. A state of immortality would be sort of reaching the ultimate state of conscousness, there would be no need for mind, because existence would not be based on matter. The ultimate goal for immortality would be mortality.
    I don't see how you arrive at that.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.


    Christians have been waiting for their "savior" to return for thousands of years. Jews have been waiting for their "messiah" to come for longer than that. They've all been claiming that the end is "right around the corner" since the beginning of religion. If their bible states that "god is returning at any minute", then they will believe it. So, I don't think that "waiting for an eternity" will convince them otherwise. If anything, it would make matters so much more horrible. With the advent of nuclear and chemical weapons, I'm sure they would try to fulfill those prophecies themselves. If their bible says there will be chaos, they will create chaos. (Even after the bout of chaos, they will claim that "that wasn't the one" and it will continually get worse)

    That's just my prediction in this hypothetical!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    Pong, Don't you think the highest state of human presents is ballance. A state of immortality would be sort of reaching the ultimate state of conscousness, there would be no need for mind, because existence would not be based on matter. The ultimate goal for immortality would be mortality.
    I don't see how you arrive at that.
    I myself cannot see immortality as a whole, there must be a part of the whole that is its own opposite, at least I do not know how to express that. If you take immortality to be the ultimate state, I cannot see mind being involved. Spirit would be there but mind is matter, one would not need to create aim, it would not lead to prefection, there would be no need for correction of being. If immortality was the end constant it would eliminate the cycle of life. Religion would disappear because there would be no need for renewal of any phenominon. Fear would disappear and life as we know it would disppear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccoale427 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.


    Christians have been waiting for their "savior" to return for thousands of years. Jews have been waiting for their "messiah" to come for longer than that. They've all been claiming that the end is "right around the corner" since the beginning of religion. If their bible states that "god is returning at any minute", then they will believe it. So, I don't think that "waiting for an eternity" will convince them otherwise. If anything, it would make matters so much more horrible. With the advent of nuclear and chemical weapons, I'm sure they would try to fulfill those prophecies themselves. If their bible says there will be chaos, they will create chaos. (Even after the bout of chaos, they will claim that "that wasn't the one" and it will continually get worse)

    That's just my prediction in this hypothetical!
    There is no geographical direction for heaven, we are free to find it in eternity or the infinity of space. If immortals were to come to earth they would not be successful convincing people that heaven did not exsist. More likly we would convince them that death is a must. It just goes to show that we cannot express every thing in our present state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Don't know why but this just popped into my head. Let's say there are scattered amongst the universe, intelligent life that is immortal. Maybe we even attain immortality one day, who knows? Anyways, would such beings have any use for religion? Gods? Heaven? If you can't die then is afterlife an afterthought? One of the prospects for religious life on this planet at least, is a chance provided to those who die to meet their creator. Well if dying isn't in your repertoire then the chances of hooking up with a deity in an afterlife reality is nil.

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.

    Sorry I'm rambling but I haven't had much time to dwell on this subject. So I would like to hear opinions on whether immortal beings actually require a religion or if they do have religious beliefs just exactly how would they differ from a mere mortal's?
    Hmm, I suppose this will have to depend on how you define this or these immortal(s). If they have the innate immortality of not dying of old age, not dying from wounds sustained, a combination of those two features, or any additional traits to their immortality. I like to tackle this question from a science fiction and fantasy point of view.

    If these immortals have innate immortality of not dying from old age & fatal wounds (some sort of regeneration like X-Men's Wolverine or Highlander?), I suppose it wouldn't be an unthinkable notion that they might still have some form of "religion" unlike those we are familiar with. The common take on religion means a structured belief system where there is usually a creator type deity at the top, with a sort of narrative describing the it's cosmology and origins, and perhaps an afterlife concept or ascendency towards another stage of "being". I am leaning towards the likelihood that unless these immortals have no emotions whatsoever, or have adopted an almost unhuman-like tendency for rational thought and cold hard logic, or existed at the beginning of time (probably not here on Earth since that took place much later after the birth of the known universe) they would probably have a religion of sorts. Also, while these immortals are immortal, they might not possess "super powers or magical-like powers", and will probably imagine that there exists some other being who are more or all powerful; like a deity. All that takes is a little imagination, assigning abilities that one does not have or have desired to have.

    A religious narrative detailing the birth of their accepted cosmology, and possibly an deity type entity that observes, judges or ignores their (immortals) actions rewarding or punishing them (immortals) depending on their value system (morality if any), etc. While these immortals may not share a system of morality like those that we are familiar with, assigning ad-hoc meanings to both positive & negative events (Oh, that deer escaped me, and I have nothing yummy to eat. Some"One" hates me; although I do not die, fear, or feel hunger) (That rainbow is so beautiful, and since I can't make one, some"One" must have created it, and that cheers me up) is rather likely from my perspective.

    If we understood how these immortal's mind work, what they desire or dread, the answer would be much clearer. I hope I making some sense.


    edits: Addtionally, since these immortals would have all the time in the world to think or comtemplate on stuff, some of them might have at some point in their history began questioning their origins and perhaps their purpose in their lenghty immortal life. If their psychological tendency is anything like ours, I suppose the answer would probably be yes, they would have some use for religion, and possibly adopted one at some point of their lives. We can probably look at it as god having a religion of it's own, worshipping a higher God that created god. And this higher god worshipping a HIGHER GOD, </Infinite Repeat> Haha.
    Last edited by scoobydoo1; July 25th, 2012 at 03:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Don't know why but this just popped into my head. Let's say there are scattered amongst the universe, intelligent life that is immortal. Maybe we even attain immortality one day, who knows? Anyways, would such beings have any use for religion? Gods? Heaven? If you can't die then is afterlife an afterthought? One of the prospects for religious life on this planet at least, is a chance provided to those who die to meet their creator. Well if dying isn't in your repertoire then the chances of hooking up with a deity in an afterlife reality is nil.

    However, an immortal's religion if there is one, might possibly have a provision in which a creator is prophesied as paying a visit one day. As far as heaven goes, I don't really see the need for it unless the immortals actually believe a deity resides there. But one thing an immortal being has that we don't is a lot of time on their hands. So I suppose waiting for divine visits that never occur might persuade them to acknowledge that their beliefs are bogus, at least the prophesies.

    Sorry I'm rambling but I haven't had much time to dwell on this subject. So I would like to hear opinions on whether immortal beings actually require a religion or if they do have religious beliefs just exactly how would they differ from a mere mortal's?
    They will still need energy to think and feel, and there is only a finite amount of energy in the universe so how can they be immortal after all energy is consumed? Eating each other? Leaving a last immortal braindead for eternity?
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    They will still need energy to think and feel, and there is only a finite amount of energy in the universe so how can they be immortal after all energy is consumed? Eating each other? Leaving a last immortal braindead for eternity?
    I love the science forum because it is impossible to hypothesize without some scientific logic, reason or fact pointing out discrepancies and faults. OK then, instead of immortals why not a highly intelligent mortal species that knows how to prevent death. They're so good at it that when their universe starts going down the tubes after a few eons, they just make another one and move in.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    They will still need energy to think and feel, and there is only a finite amount of energy in the universe so how can they be immortal after all energy is consumed? Eating each other? Leaving a last immortal braindead for eternity?
    I love the science forum because it is impossible to hypothesize without some scientific logic, reason or fact pointing out discrepancies and faults. OK then, instead of immortals why not a highly intelligent mortal species that knows how to prevent death. They're so good at it that when their universe starts going down the tubes after a few eons, they just make another one.
    Well I happen to believe thats why universes produce life in the first place...
    So I dont know what to say... how to attack... damn... Im outsmarted!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    Well I happen to believe thats why universes produce life in the first place...
    I can see that belief being part of of a self-made immortal universe builder's religion. However I don't know if they could describe how their original universe got there, who built the one that produced them. That lack of knowledge might produce some religious beliefs.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    Well I happen to believe thats why universes produce life in the first place...
    I can see that belief being part of of a self-made immortal universe builder's religion. However I don't know if they could describe how their original universe got there, who built the one that produced them. That lack of knowledge might produce some religious beliefs.
    I think you should explain what makes a belief religious.
    To me religion is an attitude rather than having certain beliefs.
    The attitude makes you defend certain things or beliefs without questioning if its right to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    I think you should explain what makes a belief religious.
    To me religion is an attitude rather than having certain beliefs.
    The attitude makes you defend certain things or beliefs without questioning if its right to do so.
    I dig. The core of it is having irrational Faith in something, or the capacity to. It's an attitude.

    Because we are social animals, the religiosity of others reveals an attitude and qualities we depend on. Society often requires individuals to follow blind, hold a promise... "defend certain things or beliefs without questioning if its right to do so". Stated softly, that is trust; though it may go to extremes also for the greater good of society. A society of purely rational individuals, each constantly re-evaluating his position, is weak.

    I think that humans evolved our capacity for religion because we evolved a capacity to follow blind and uphold laws, regardless of personal doubt or changing circumstances.

    I suppose the trait equally valuable to immortal societies.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    I think you should explain what makes a belief religious.
    To me religion is an attitude rather than having certain beliefs.
    The attitude makes you defend certain things or beliefs without questioning if its right to do so.
    I dig. The core of it is having irrational Faith in something, or the capacity to. It's an attitude.

    Because we are social animals, the religiosity of others reveals an attitude and qualities we depend on. Society often requires individuals to follow blind, hold a promise... "defend certain things or beliefs without questioning if its right to do so". Stated softly, that is trust; though it may go to extremes also for the greater good of society. A society of purely rational individuals, each constantly re-evaluating his position, is weak.

    I think that humans evolved our capacity for religion because we evolved a capacity to follow blind and uphold laws, regardless of personal doubt or changing circumstances.

    I suppose the trait equally valuable to immortal societies.
    Damn your eyes!
    You understood completely what I meant!
    And I hate you one and all!
    Damn your eyes...
    (Eh...its from an irish song: Sam Hall)
    (EXcept the second line above.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    ,,,
    Damn your eyes! ...

    And I hate you one and all!
    Damn your eyes...
    (Eh...its from an irish song: Sam Hall)
    (EXcept the second line above.)
    ballad of Sam Hall, highwayman killed a man(tis said) betrayed by his lover molly
    hung unrepentant

    damned if'n it ain't one of my favorite antisocial songs
    sigurdW likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdW View Post
    ,,,
    Damn your eyes! ...

    And I hate you one and all!
    Damn your eyes...
    (Eh...its from an irish song: Sam Hall)
    (EXcept the second line above.)
    ballad of Sam Hall, highwayman killed a man(tis said) betrayed by his lover molly
    hung unrepentant

    damned if'n it ain't one of my favorite antisocial songs
    #sculptor# dunno hoe to put tis
    (And I cant pretend for long, i like to express myself ? as clearly as possible: truth can kill!)
    PS Thanks for leving the empty space open. Youre good in your art.
    BTW Im very occupied at the moe them sWedes are actually beginning to like my art.
    I call it ACTION POETRYand i would define it in here
    but Im not sure your countrymen understands the difference between a "definition" and "fairy tale".
    PPS You Irish or just talented?
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    go ahead and fairy tail define action poetry, or I'll just guess wildly.

    I once sat behind a piano studying in a gay bar where my (soon to be) wife was playing the drums in an all grrlll lesbian band---and recorded(wrote down---like taking notes in a lecture) the conversations about loves pains, and life's dissapointments and counciling happening around me-------then wrote a play called appropriately enough "the bar tapes". Maybe it was a tad too "real" for it's day, maybe authors shouldn't direct their own work, maybe it really did suck?
    But i really liked it. (which made me a majority of one.)
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