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Thread: Limit of thinking

  1. #1 Limit of thinking 
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    hi people!
    i try to think in the llimits of the human mind. But i just cannot think beyond space, materia, energy and then life. Even if i think of a multiverse it consists of the named elements, could even be 2 dimensional or just colors without life. So is anyone stuck in this limit too or is there the thought beyond.
    thx for replies!


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  3. #2  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindpower View Post
    hi people!
    i try to think in the llimits of the human mind. But i just cannot think beyond space, materia, energy and then life. Even if i think of a multiverse it consists of the named elements, could even be 2 dimensional or just colors without life. So is anyone stuck in this limit too or is there the thought beyond.
    thx for replies!
    I take it you're suggesting that there are things of which we cannot comprehend, totally unrelated to our universe, that we cannot possibly describe within our scope of knowledge. Are you saying that once we figure out everything there is to know that there might just be a whole lot more beyond that we cannot reach or even consider? I suppose with that in mind I would say we are limited, that which is impossible for us will forever remain impossible. To me it's like reality, you can't go to another since once you're there you're still in yours.

    Then again there is the possibility that there isn't anything beyond knowing all there is to know. I think religion is the closest we'll ever get to thinking beyond our limit of understanding. Maybe this is why I don't bother with it. Can't describe something you can't know anything about.


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Forum Freshman Prudentibus's Avatar
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    There might be no limit at all. However, to think there's no limit, is a limit itself; thinking that you can never know it all is a limit. I'm contradicting myself here. Honestly, we can't really answer that question (i think; who knows?) but we may deal with it. Such a question (like many others), leaves large gaps in our understanding. Now people either fill those gaps with religion (any type of spiritual thought), with science (gathering empirical evidence to try to understand more about what it is all) or a mixture of both
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Define limit in the context of this thread please.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Mathematics might be the appropriate tool for extending the limit of what we can think about.

    Someone who learns the mathematics of multi-dimensional manifolds, for example, can work with concepts that would be impossible to visualise and think about otherwise.
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
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    I assume you are asking the limits to which the human mind can perceive reality. You would have to accept the three basic assumptions:

    1. Reality exists objectively.
    2. Reality can be understood rationally.
    3. The human mind is able to perceive reality.

    Without acceptance of all of these assumptions, everything may be false.
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    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindpower View Post
    hi people!
    i try to think in the llimits of the human mind. But i just cannot think beyond space, materia, energy and then life. Even if i think of a multiverse it consists of the named elements, could even be 2 dimensional or just colors without life. So is anyone stuck in this limit too or is there the thought beyond.
    thx for replies!
    Is there a multiverse inside the mind, or is the mind inside the multivierse? If we are talking about the limits of the mind, than what does a multiverse have to do with it? Or, are you talking about the limits of the mind's ability to comprehend nature (which in this case means everything regardless of our comprehension of it).

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Define limit in the context of this thread please.
    this~thread: limit...
    Thinking...
    error... no limit was found.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  9. #8  
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    perception begets conception begets perception begets conception... ad infinitum(?)
    which is both an expanding spiral and a limit

    do wales contenplate climbing everest?
    were our really distant ancestors aquatic?
    nothing is but what is not and the only constant is change
    but we operate through evolutionary blinders which obscure some of that which is and that which will be.
    until we create structure(internal and external) within which that which could not be is now obvious

    limits are just fences, when you find one, climb over it, or walk around it
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindpower View Post
    hi people!
    i try to think in the llimits of the human mind. But i just cannot think beyond space, materia, energy and then life. Even if i think of a multiverse it consists of the named elements, could even be 2 dimensional or just colors without life. So is anyone stuck in this limit too or is there the thought beyond.
    thx for replies!
    I would try not to think when you talk about outside of space, but rather to feel. Names are not important when it comes to sound, or perception, one side of ourself is concerned with tangible and the other side is about feelings. When one thinks in terms of spirit, dimensions does not appear in the form of questions because all dimentions are present, some phenomenon we sense and other we do not. There is a connection between the outer and the inner of any thing I would think the detection capabilities change with such capabilities, the question is, are we conscous of the possibilities.

    For example, the inner sound is not the same when it comes out, it changes its color, tone, and many other features. The only way to capture the inner sound on the outside is to change its structure, (maybe not the right word) what I mean is, you have to listen to it in a different form. To move acroos distances like space where infinity is the borders one cannot use mind.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman IWANTTOKNOWMORE's Avatar
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    wow
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Mathematics might be the appropriate tool for extending the limit of what we can think about.

    Someone who learns the mathematics of multi-dimensional manifolds, for example, can work with concepts that would be impossible to visualise and think about otherwise.
    I really like this response. The huge majority of our (modern) knowledge started as a mathematical model that explained something we could not yet comprehend physically or practically. In a modern sense, theoretical physics is entirely based on this (M-Theory, string theory, GUT, etc.) I think the study of dark matter/energy falls into this category. It is still a hypothesis based on a mathematical necessity, but we have been making vast improvements in our understanding of it physically (we have already done quite a few physical experiments and gathered empirical data).

    It is just interesting to think about how most of the "unknown" (at the time) is "understood" (for lack of a better word) through mathematics, then shortly after, we begin to develop physical models with empirical data that agree with the mathematical model.
    Last edited by ccoale427; August 1st, 2012 at 05:26 AM.
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  13. #12  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    The other important tool is abstraction.

    For example, when designing a semiconductor manufacturing process all sorts of details of chemistry and quantum physics have to be considered as these determine the characteristics of the substrate, doping, oxide layers, etc. This determines how a transistor on that process will work and so various transistor parameters can be determined theoretically and experimentally.

    When designing a transistor to work on that process, all the details of chemistry and quantum physics can be forgotten. Instead the derived parameters are used to design the transistors needed. These are then used to create logic gates, memory cells, etc.

    When designing a complex logic circuit, such as a CPU, you don't need to know the details of how each individual transistor works. You just need to know the logic function and some basic parameters such as drive strength, timing, etc. of the gates, memory cells, etc.

    When writing a compiler for the CPU, you don't need to know the details of all the logic blocks it is built with, just some details of the registers, instruction set, etc.

    When programming a CPU, you don't need to know anything about the internal microarchitecture, just the C++ (or whatever) language.

    When using your phone, you don't need to know anything about semiconductors, transistors, CPUs, compiler or C++. You just have to type "OMG!" followed by Send.

    In the same way, abstraction allows us to understand the cosmos in immense detail without having to worry about what every single electron, neutrino or photon is doing.
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  14. #13  
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    I was thinking about this issue some time ago and concluded that there is a limit to our thinking/imagination/knowledge.
    It was triggered by thinking about limit of digital pictures!

    Let me explain.

    When you "Think" you are arranging neurons in your brain in a certain pattern. Each neuron have a finite number of distinctive states. (Limited by quantum physics if not anything else).
    There is a finite number of neurons in your brain. (It is a large number, but still finite)
    So the total permutations of the number of patterns that your neurons can make is a finite number.
    That defines an upper bound to our thinking!

    It is like limit in number of distinct pictures you can take from a digital camera.
    Each pixel has a number of limited colors it can make. Picture is made of lets say million pixels (1 Meg camera)
    There is limited number of distinct patterns you can make limited permutations of the different pixels.
    If we get a computer to generate all the possible permutations, your yet to be born great-great grandsons picture will also be in that computer!
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  15. #14  
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    thx for the replies, the reply from BmanSG was exactly my way of thinking as i currently rearrange energy in space, in the thinking that everything is made of energy even matter as the newly found higgs-part shows, to shape a futurous better world. Maybe one day when humans survive we will be able to shape everything on our own, even life.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    For example, the inner sound is not the same when it comes out, it changes its color, tone, and many other features. The only way to capture the inner sound on the outside is to change its structure, (maybe not the right word) what I mean is, you have to listen to it in a different form.
    Not sure what is meant. But listening to a recording of my voice then it sounds different from what I hear. Suppose one fiddles a liitle with the recording then the recording could be changed to sound like it sounds in my head. then listeners can compare the two. I wonder which voice they like the best? And ...are they ,sort of, looking into my head?
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