
Originally Posted by
sigurdW
[COLOR=#0000cd]If you have any rational comments then please post them.
Why? So you can ignore them again?
OK.
Lets pretend you are not an annoying troll who likes to argue for the sake of it, and imagine you want to make a fresh start and have a rational discussion.
Definition: If x is the cause of existence then x is god.
...
The only way a common definition can contradict my definition is
if the common definition claims god is NOT the cause of existence
because that is ALL my definition claims.
And that is part of the problem. It is too limited. For example, Hawking claims that the laws of physics are the cause of the universe. Does that make "the laws of physics" God? I'm not sure many theists would accept that. And how do "the laws of physics" respond to prayer or send their son to Earth. Or whatever people expect of their God.
So then we have your "logic":
1 For every x, x has a cause.
2 There is existence.
3 There is a god.
1 is an unsupported assertion. There is some evidence it is not true. You have been given at least one example (and you only need one to disprove it).
But this is also irrelevant to your argument. This is very common in arguments based on petitio principii (begging the question). Presumably because it helps mask the circular nature of the argument.
2 Well, yeah.
3 Back to begging the question: God is that which causes existence. Existence is. Therefore God exists. This is a circular argument.
You can equally well say:
- The soul is that which allows us to think. We think. Therefore the soul exists.
- Boojums are that which causes rain. It rains. Therefore Boojums exist.
- The moon is made of cheese. The moon is up there. Therefore cheese exists.
I assume your response to this will be along the lines of, "My logic is perfect. This is not begging the question. If there are no rational objections, I win."
I would therefore like to call an expert witness, You Honour. I call "Rational Wiki" on the subject of begging the question.
Mr Rational Wiki, could you tell us your first example of "begging the question".

Originally Posted by
RW
We shall prove that God exists.
1. The order and magnificence of the world is evidence of God's Creation.
2. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Begging the question - RationalWiki
This is identical to your argument:
1. Existence is evidence of God (because God is
defined as that which creates existence)
2. Therefore, we know God exists.
I rest my case.