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About LinkBacksSome religions teach that every human being is somebodies reincarnation.
There were times when only 1 million of people lived on Earth.
Currently there is over 7 billions.Who`s reincarnations those 7 billions are?
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April 28th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Some religions teach that every human being is somebodies reincarnation.
There were times when only 1 million of people lived on Earth.
Currently there is over 7 billions.Who`s reincarnations those 7 billions are?
Last edited by Stanley514; April 28th, 2012 at 06:22 PM.
Could it not be that there is only ever really one consciousness that exists in everybody. I know that sounds odd but if you take time out the equation. People acting differently due to external influences such as genetics and enviroment.Originally Posted by Stanley514
But really just one consciousness experiencing many different lifetimes.
If there really is only one consciousness, living lifetimes could be it's way of passing the time.
Or another possibility is we are all just small parts of a larger consciousness that we all return to after death.
They may reincarnations from people from other planet which is dying.
I’m certainly no scientist (layman at best!), but I’m sure reincarnation isn’t a theory. More a belief system on a faith. Were I define faith as a belief in a claim made without any evidence for that said claim.
I’m also no Hindu (So I stand corrected), but I think they believe when a human dies they are reborn again, not necessarily as another human, but born into a lesser creature like a slug if you robbed a bank or something immoral enough to warrant begin a slug (No offence to slugs). But what action would a slug have to perform to be considered an immoral/moral slug? I think reincarnation is just another speculative argument to explain away why we all exist.
Thought of the dayCould it not be that there is only ever really one consciousness that exists in everybody. I know that sounds odd but if you take time out the equation. People acting differently due to external influences such as genetics and enviroment.
But really just one consciousness experiencing many different lifetimes.
If there really is only one consciousness, living lifetimes could be it's way of passing the time.
Or another possibility is we are all just small parts of a larger consciousness that we all return to after death.
Have you considered what would happen to your consciousness/self-awareness if it were medically possible to split your brain in two separate parts without dying? Would your consciousness/self-awareness then be considered to be “experiencing 2 different lifetimes” as you put it?
Not only is it possible, it is done: Corpus Callosotomy Surgery: Uses, Effects, Recovery, and More
Thought of the dayCould it not be that there is only ever really one consciousness that exists in everybody. I know that sounds odd but if you take time out the equation. People acting differently due to external influences such as genetics and enviroment.
But really just one consciousness experiencing many different lifetimes.
If there really is only one consciousness, living lifetimes could be it's way of passing the time.
Or another possibility is we are all just small parts of a larger consciousness that we all return to after death.
Have you considered what would happen to your consciousness/self-awareness if it were medically possible to split your brain in two separate parts without dying? Would your consciousness/self-awareness then be considered to be “experiencing 2 different lifetimes” as you put it?
I think if that ever happened I'd be more worried about going schizophrenic.
The theory of Reincarnation is the method used by different Religions to teach their followers that they do not have to waste time regretting what they have done with this life, as they have an other chance waiting.
you gotta be kiddin me
Ok, then whose reincarnations are those aliens? It's endless.
If God's intent was to create perfect immortal beings then having to redesign them to die must mean that reincarnation was an afterthought, not as originally planned. Why even have souls in the waiting room if everyone lives?
Reincarnation. The passing on of a Soul. For Soul read consciousness. Awareness in another dimension. Alive and reincarnated in another consciousness.So there is a consciousness Pool. Where is this consciousness Pool? In what we commonly call the Spiritual Existance. And where is this Spiritual Existance located? Flitting about in the living consciousness pool, in the land of the living, right now, wherever their is a compatable Host Consciousness. This reincarnated consciousness, saved to assist or otherwise, the current and future generations. A grab bag of ideas and solutions if you like. Dreams and Visions give indications of this Consiousness Pool. I t exists. I have no doubt that this form of reincarnation is in action with receptive consiousness every day. And night. I believe absolutely. And believe me, I am not a complete fool. Where is my proof? In several personal encounters with this Medium. I've explained these in other Postes in these Forums. westwind.
Reincarnation is to have faith in this life. But don't fear the end. Many people will not accept death and go berserk, having something to look forward to (or backwards) can be comforting for those who lack the mental capacity to comprehend the truth.
Reincarnation is not possible, not theoretically, not even by magic (if it existed), what use would a cockroach have with a human conciousness, would it wash it's legs before a meal? NO.
Reincarnation is a belief based on the desire for a form of immortality by people who do want death to be the end existence.
Oh No... Scientology... Run!!!!
Reincarnation allows one to move between forms of existence as well. One may be returned as an insect, or a bird, or a mole. Therefore, if you follow the reincarnation it is possible for something originally born into a "lower form" to advance its way up (or down depending on your point of view) to the level of humanity. One then reincarnates over and over until they achieve enlightenment.
Who's counting?
To take this in the direction of Buddhism... I am not a Buddhist, and by no means do I think I've attained Nirvana.. But what is Nirvana? As I understand it is not an Existence, it is not an Afterlife, it isn't anything. But that doesn't mean it's nothing. If the goal to reincarnation for the Buddhists is too reach the Nirvana, then Nirvana must have something to do with the mindset. This is what I think Nirvana would therefore have to be: An understanding that you aren't nonexistant, but actually don't exist. Which means you are timeless, and eternal, while having never existed in the first place. So when I put that into the perspective of reincarnation. I think if it were to actually exist, we'd just be coming back as ourselves time and time again, until we reach the mindset known as Nirvana.
Edit: Sorry, I somehow expected people to know how that relates to this topic.. What I am getting at is that in such a way, the number of 'souls' and available 'vessel's becomes irrelevent.
I had always thought that Nirvana was attained with ascension. My understanding was that it was another plane of existence.
Nirvana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaI had always thought that Nirvana was attained with ascension. My understanding was that it was another plane of existence.
Ascension? Sure, but I don't think that implies a different existence in the sense that you are elsewhere - at least that doesn't seem to be the case.
Reincarnation is another something that science has to try to prove. I will guarantee you that, beyond death is death. ( I have no scientific fact for this but I can help you prove it) also, do you have any evidence to dispute the opposite? Harden up and accept the fact. A "God" which has only come from the human mind, and hence, impure, isn only but a mere person. After death is death. If ever, you take another animals life, you will purely see the GOD given aspect given to that animal.
Oh I plea to the wider community that we let these people be more informed in all of their ignorance
"Amen"
http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.c.../stalemate.jpg
^ The best possible answer to that question leads here.
The bible has an interesting theory about the human soul. Much like the comparison to an intensive pig farm. Immature souls enter the earth, ready to learn. Mature souls die and return to heaven with knowledge. If so, the planet is nothing but heavens giant pig farm (of humans ofcourse).
The return of these souls would be the apocalypse, rapture or whatever the most recent interpretation of the bible claims to be.
As of the number where the "souls" come from in reincarnation. There are zillions of bacteria on earth. Nobody would miss a few billion. All the extra humans could simply be (ex) single celled organisms, feeding on faeces, or turning leaves into minerals.
(no, i don't believe in reincarnation)
But if there is a repeating existence (probably some wacky scientific theory) we have already reincarnated as ourselves an infinite number of times, and doomed to make the same mistakes.
If things can't end, there is no need for a beginning eiter. (looking at the creation of energy in the universe)
transmigration of the soul
never being able to grasp what exactly a soul is, i can't form a concept of it's flitting about from body to body willy nilly
nor, (from buddhism), the soul, while in a quest to find perfection in balance, using our bodies for a lifetime
then trying again and again and again in an infinity of failed attempts to find perfection and end the incessent series of rebirths
does the soul animate the mind
or...
is the soul mind dependent
(leads to the mind/brain dichotomy)
Last edited by sculptor; May 25th, 2012 at 09:57 PM.
The soul is a concept where humans claim to be more then mere matter. It is a transitional object that can explain how a human conciousness could traverse to another realm, using a soul as a vessle. Sola = Light, Solva = Liquid. May be a interpretation from many other words, but those two came to mind.
To me, a soul is just a tool to make easily influenced people to follow rules. A combination of feelings, morals and conciousness, that we interpret as a plasma like, multidimensional, glowing, floating blob.
And sorry to say this to you sculptor, but your increddibly hard to follow in a next post. Not that your claims are so good, but they are extremely philosophical on a poetic way. I can't grasp half of what you mean by most. But it might be just me. Your use of words make me think you are brittish or irish though.
From a logical point of view, one can surely see that reincarnation is possible. As matter exists in all shapes and sizes and is only energy (which always exists in one form or another) it is well known that energy transfers itself from one state to another. So why can not consciousness evolve from one state of energy to another form of life? Does reincarnation only mean for consciousness to move from one living being into another yet-to-be living being? What is to say that once upon death our consciousness transcends to another plain of existence as energy? Is that not reincarnation, as our awareness now exists in a separate being?
The question really remains, is consciousness separate from the body? I do not think this can ever be proven.
Moreover, is there a definition that can include reincarnation on the sub atomic level? If, for instance, our body dies, the energy used by the body (if left to natural degradation) decays to leach it's energy into it's surroundings.
This is a fascinating topic of discussion.
Also, as man is the only (as far as we know) creature capable of universal awareness does it not make sense that we are the consciousness of the universe itself? I say yes with a another thread asking the question, "Does life have a purpose?"
Perhaps the purpose of life is the conscious awareness of the universe as we are in a clear position to put into motion the ability to be able to answer such questions.
Just a thought.
If it exists, then the soul must be a carrier of information, or better yet - maybe the soul is the information itself, contained in the brain. Maybe it's the "software", and the brain is the "hardware" aspect of the biological computer that is us.
Anyway, ancient people would not have understood that concept, so they'd have to make it all mystical.
Either that, or maybe there is a good reason why humans aren't simply immortal. Maybe the mind needs a "reset" button, or it will live too long and become jaded or something.
Anyway, I'm just entertaining the idea. I don't claim to know what lies in the afterlife, if anything does.
How.....From a logical point of view, one can surely see that reincarnation is possible.
It already has been, or as least as close to proven as science ever gets; our consciousness resides in our biological brains---but like other superstitious beliefs we sometimes don't like the answer so refuse to accept it.The question really remains, is consciousness separate from the body? I do not think this can ever be proven.
He's still correct. We can't disprove it entirely, so logic dictates it's still possible. Though highly unlikely. I mean, what is reincarnation? It's not concious reposession of another being, as none of us have knowledge of anything before this life. So it has to be reposession of matter. And aren't we all simply a reincarnation of materials composed from the death of zillions of ancient beings? If so, then we are a reincarnation of their atoms and molecules. Interesting concept. Does that mean they are a part of us?
What would be the advantage of reincarnation over that of creating a new soul? The idea of reincarnation goes against evolution.
If you want to stop at the first step of logic....and dare not think about credibility, weighing of evidence and all the rest where philosophers dare not tread--the playground of science.He's still correct. We can't disprove it entirely, so logic dictates it's still possible.
The most current information, that I know of, suggests that conciousness resides within Working Memory. If remember correctly, within the central executive. I really only skimmed these links... From what I remember learning during my Attention/Memory Psych course. The central executive function of Working Memory is a control centre, allocating resources towards the phonological loop, and the visuospatial sketchpad. Now I'm really reaching back, but, I believe the available resources left for the central executive is what is considered 'consciousness'.
Consciousness
http://www.theassc.org/files/assc/2261.pdf
Baddeley's model of working memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://willcov.com/bio-consciousness...ing Memory.htm - This links seems to give the best overview.
Note: This is a conceptual model, the objects named within this model are conceptual - there is no physical central executive, or phonological loop, etc.
But what if reincarnation is part of evolution. If you look at it Reincarnation is evolution. You have a spirit or soul etc. that evolves to a higher state of being.
This is to the dear Mr Lynx_Fox.
You state in a lot of your posts about the scientific approach. I, too, understand that way of reasoning and I believe I have not fallen outside of such reasoning in regard to my attempt to explain how I think reincarnation can be achieved, such as to have a theoretical perspective on the subject. My disadvantage, however, is that on this subject is I have no means personally to either prove or disprove my statements, and so they were said out of opinion. I know for good that opinion has no place in the scientific community (and you had pointed that out to me when I first joined this community).
It is all good and true that if you come up with a theory on something then you should try to prove (or even disprove that theory) to advance the learning of others. I accept your 'evidence' of biological brainwaves. I never discarded it, though I did know it existed.
Understood that, relatively, our biological brainwaves house a consciousness. Yet you fail to take in the complexity of my 'opinion' in that I also stated in a later post, "Also, as man is the only (as far as we know) creature capable of universal awareness does it not make sense that we are the consciousness of the universe itself? I say yes with a another thread asking the question, "Does life have a purpose?"
Perhaps the purpose of life is the conscious awareness of the universe as we are in a clear position to put into motion the ability to be able to answer such questions.
Just a thought."
Spirituality is not just for the faint hearted but is another way of looking at the world from a scientific view point. To close your mind off to this is to close your mind off to speculation and hence, a possible truth.
Well. First of all, this is Philosophy. Secondly, because of the lack of scientific evidence, the criteria of the concept of reïncarnation have not been set. Out of this matter you can not state, that reïncarnation is not possible in the slightest way. As, i'm constructed out of atoms, once posessed by wheat, corn, pork, potatoes, olive's. Though this directly does not make me a potatoe, but in philosophy, i am a little bit.
If you set direct standards on where reïncarnation has to follow, and i can tell you if it follows. For now, to me, it's fantasy. Or maybe i'm part potatoe.
Well at least your admit here that this is the first stumbled step out of many in the logical process.If you set direct standards on where reïncarnation has to follow, and i can tell you if it follows. For now, to me, it's fantasy. Or maybe i'm part potatoe.
(We're both part potato from a genetic point of view--both sharing some protist ancestor some 2/3rds or so on the evolution chain of life on this planet . hehe)
Yeah, it's kind of the same as Nessie, or Bigfoot. There is no way of proving they don't exist, apart from not finding them EVER. Same thing with reïncarnation. Only way to know for sure, is to die, reïncarnate, and know enough to tell about it. Still, nobody with any brain cells would believe you.
shades of the mind brain dichotomy?
I ain't no cannibal, i don't want the nourishment of your brain, just that of your mind.
if god is really female, i wanna be reincarnated as her sex toy (nearer my god to thee)
(edited as/per request from ms A.)
Last edited by sculptor; May 31st, 2012 at 07:03 AM.
Hehe, if god is female, then a male and a female made her. God can't be god and have a gender. Though if she was female, and reïncarnation was a thing, and you could become an inanimate object and be concious. Then i don't think you want to be bent trough an extruder to become some rubber toy.
Oh please Lynx_Fox & Zwolver, you both are blinded by either old age or dogma! This, being the place of philosophy means there is always a home for speculation. After all, that is pretty much what philosophy is and also science, might I add!!. (Correct me if you think I am wrong?!)
Here is another piece of philosophy/history for you, regarding reincarnation.
"Reincarnation is the religious or philosophical belief that the soul or spirit, after biological death, begins a new life in a new body that may be human, animal or spiritual depending on the moral quality of the previous life's actions. This doctrine is a central tenet of the Indian religions and is a belief that was held by such historic figures as Pythagoras, Plato and Socrates. It is also a common belief of pagan religions such as Druidism, Spiritism,Theosophy, and Eckankar and is found in many tribal societies around the world, in places such as Siberia, West Africa, North America, and Australia."
This passage was taken from Wiki directly. And now I suspect that you would claim this is unworthy irrelevant information, only unless it came from a person that is renown for their science. Breakthroughs in science have a lot of the time come from those that speculate, and from that, others pay more attention.
I believe that your inherent views are nothing but opinion.
Please answer if you believe I am wrong.
Regards,
RJC
You are wrong. Philosophy is not speculation and most certainly not idle peculation as exhibited in this thread. Philosophy is a highly structured, innately logical approach to investigating phenomena, exploring solutions and posing questions. Speculation of the type being bandied around here has a place. We call such places bars. They serve alcohol, which serves to increase the quantity of speculation, lower its quality, while simultaneously making it appear ever more significant. (Though not to those on the outside.)
seriously
the main evidence for reincarnation is the almost global belief in the concept
is this a warped version of ancestral worship?
a non scientific recognition of genetic inheritance?("she is the spitting image of her grandmother")
is this a throwback to a time when there were very few of us on the planet(remnants of a mother religion?)?
I'll chunk this up. Socrates was a philosopher who believed it was were we could be going. As a philosopher he accepted the fact he could not know eiter if he was wrong or right, that's the beauty of philosophy. Druidism is dead, spiritism is dead all those other religions are extinct. And then there are still people being "reïncarnated". So, eiter believing in it, or not, has no effect on things happening.
Many religions are transitional. They slowly change, until they are outcasted by their motherreligion. I'm sure this is what happened to Islam, Christianity, Judeasm, etc. Paganism is different, as they did not slowly shape their religion to this.
You are wrong in a way, that you think i can prove your wrong, as i can not.
Nobody said that the soul, essence or spirit had to be something else then their brains. As the brain contains the soul, if it's the part that conciously tries to moralise everything.
John are you familiar with the chan school of sudden enlightenment---the splinter school founded by the fith patriach of the main chan school?You are wrong. Philosophy is not speculation and most certainly not idle peculation as exhibited in this thread. Philosophy is a highly structured, innately logical approach to investigating phenomena, exploring solutions and posing questions. Speculation of the type being bandied around here has a place. We call such places bars. They serve alcohol, which serves to increase the quantity of speculation, lower its quality, while simultaneously making it appear ever more significant. (Though not to those on the outside.)
then evolved into the zen buddhism of japan..............(equal parts buddhism, and taoism with a dash of hinduism and a pinch of shintoism--shake vigorously, then serve)
if the structure of their life appproach be deemed philosophy(which I think it is) then confining philosophy to the obfuscatory academese of some of the european philosophers and logicians may be a tad restrictive
philosophs love any form of knowledge or reason (even that which seems, on the face of it, unreasonable or illogical) or wisdom (which cannot be tought)
knowledge is a pale shadow of wisdom
some of my professors(peers and betters) went through knowledge and found wisdom, some never made it out of the paradigm of knowledge
Chan.ge no. Or, chan? Gee, no. Or change, as in evolution, of a crane, of a religion. Religion to philosophy, philosophy to religion. Victoria, all change for the Northern Line.John are you familiar with the chan school of sudden enlightenment---
And there is philosophy and there is philsophy, so the sophists say. Are we all philosophers? Of course we are. But are we all philosophers? That is less certain. (Even in brackets you seem over certain.)
Superficial, or superfacial appearances are required by law of cliche to be deceptive. No true philosopher (and I am a true Scotsman) will fail to see the underlying truth and reason and logic and gooseberry pie.
Is knowledge a pale shadow of wisdom because it shines such a bright light?
At any rate every dog has its day and every pastiche its denouement. Are you any wiser?
wiser-maybe just a bit(shades of socratic ignorance)
parallel analogy
the difference between art and craft, is that an artist knows when to be a tad less crafty
and yet, "art" without craft is no art at all
Then heed your own advice.
Philosophy is very much so based on speculation.
phi·los·o·phyn.pl.phi·los·o·phies1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
I have underlined and bolded those that I see relevant in this situation.
To ask a question is to enquire. To come up with an answer to that question is to speculate until it is either proven wrong or right.. So Philosophy has its beginnings from such speculation. Otherwise, through logical thought and observation, how else could Galileo (though an astronomer at heart, but philosopher, none the less) think that our world was not the centre of the universe??
There always has to be a starting point as a reference, you have to ask a question in order to find an answer. So science itself, by that definition is Philosophy.
Spiritualism is so not dead, I see it around me all the time.
And so I wonder why everyone is dogmatic in my opinions that they can not even see beyond what could be possible.
For this comment I do like.
I think it is you that needs to broaden you horizons just a lot. Times have definitely changed now. Thinking is not restricted to having to conform anymore.
You bemuse me. Where have I recommended conformity. I suggested that Sculptor heed his own advice. That specific advice was, from Sculptor, "the difference between art and craft, is that an artist knows when to be a tad less crafty."I think it is you that needs to broaden you horizons just a lot. Times have definitely changed now. Thinking is not restricted to having to conform anymore.
Any one claiming to be a scientist, or valuing the scientific approach must simultaneously embrace and reject conformity. If this seems ambiguous or illogical to you, then perhaps you may be the one who needs to broaden their horizons.
Cherry picking and speculation are often bedfellows.
psst: john, they are all underlined and bold
or my computer is showing me a different picture of reality
(always a possibility)
does god reincarnate?
True, but since most of them didn't support his argument I deduced he meant the ones that were in blue. Perhaps he will clarify.
If you believe in a cyclical history- that is, the end and the beginning are exact same 'time' and we're somewhere in the middle of a constantly repeating vinyl record- then our reincarnations could very well be ourselves.
On the other hand, I am willing to suggest that pure numerology won't answer the real TOE. 1 million /= 7 million is not a disproof of the religious view: just an invitation to look deeper.
Stanley, each one teach one. For some reason we humans tend to make so much of science and technology, only it cannot answer every question. If we simply look at the reality, truth, and experience some of this guessing would not be necessary. The only reincarnation that I have experienced is in my children. That is how I answer those kind of questions because I have proof that they were made by me and are the reflection of me. Flesh of my flesh, spirit of my spirit, and blood of my blood. I do not see what difference it makes if there were ten Billion people.
RJC, If what you are saying is true, please explain spiritual science. I do not believe or know of any one way, or one thing. Philosophy as in any other topic goes anyway on any level. Galileo was not the answer to philosopy no one man is the answer to anything, we give them praise when most times they do not know what they are really saying when they do not connect it to the whole "IT" as in all things.
I listen to Coast to Coast. There are lots of stories about reincarnation. I don't believe any of them.
Jim, I can understand that you don't believe any of them, I think it is important to find a version of reincarnation for yourself and stick with it. If someone can prove that you are wrong then you can make up your mind what to believe. As I said before for me reincarnation is through my children because they are made of my genes and my ancestral DNA. They are tangeble evidence traceable through my blood. I have come to understand there are so many ways to interpret any phenomena, every one is right and wrong, although it might sound paradoxical. I have also come to learn that studying ones self is the only way to really understand the phenomena of life. I try to relate my human presents to all and every thing as long as it makes sense to me.
Jim, I can understand that you don't believe any of them, I think it is important to find a version of reincarnation for yourself and stick with it. If someone can prove that you are wrong then you can make up your mind what to believe. As I said before for me reincarnation is through my children because they are made of my genes and my ancestral DNA. They are tangeble evidence traceable through my blood. I have come to understand there are so many ways to interpret any phenomena, every one is right and wrong, although it might sound paradoxical. I have also come to learn that studying ones self is the only way to really understand the phenomena of life. I try to relate my human presents to all and every thing as long as it makes sense to me.
Ick. Duality talk isn't for me.
I find that some beliefs could be correct and others could be incorrect. While we may never have the information we need to eliminate possibilities, I am willing to rely upon my sense of reason and experience to clear the obfuscation.
eg: Scientology is a belief system. It is garbage.
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