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Thread: What is the Meaning of life and creation. And where lies its destination.?

  1. #1 What is the Meaning of life and creation. And where lies its destination.? 
    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    I often wonder how life is supposed to work.And what is our Goal. And how education and learning are put in place to make us better people.
    So we as society can get on and move forward as a species.
    But every Day, in Every year since the beginning of Mankind all we have done is destroy one another.
    Every day you turn on the news. there are wars and destruction all across the planet. So I ask the question
    What is the Meaning of Life.? as it cannot be to Destroy Creation. We need to look very closely, not just at everybody else, But ourselves.
    to find the answers. As it seems to me, we are just going round in circles, and achieving very little. as a species.
    It seems that even Religions get in the way of progress. There must be a reason, a purpose and how do we find it.
    Do we need a World order to achieve this,I wonder. Anyone with any thoughts on this.?


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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    I often wonder how life is supposed to work.
    Didn't you get the instruction manual?

    There must be a reason, a purpose and how do we find it.
    Must there? Why do you think that?


    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    I think my manual had a few pages missing ?

    Must there? Why do you think that?[/QUOTE]

    If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist. The fact we exist states purpose But for what reason is our purpose.?
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    I think my manual had a few pages missing ?
    Seems like everybody has different pages missing (and some have more missing than others!).

    If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist. The fact we exist states purpose
    Hmmmm. I just don't see the necessity for purpose. Most things seem to exist as a simple (or not so simple) consequence of thermodynamics/entropy.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Me personally i think life is a gift to enjoy the physical pleasures thereof, i believe that we consist of 2 parts, body and spirit, when the body is no longer capable of suporting life , the spirit departs , to where ? all depends on ones spiritual beliefs , but me , for arguements sake , lets call it the "spirit world" where one has no need of physical things , such as food , plasma tv's etc , so there is peace and harmony , this is cool , but its just not the same as being able to have physical sensation , ie: riding a harley with the wind in your face , or the taste of a cold beer , or even just the sensation of physical touch , you know , all the things we love to do , so i belive the whole meaning to life , is to simply enjoy ! its unfortunate that most of the worlds problems are man made , but man can fix too , but mostly our lives are controlled by all too corrupt governments and financial institutions who run to their own agendas , the accumulation of wealth , and not the solution to the worlds problems , but untill the people take to the streets and insist on their rights being restored , and get back controll of the democratic process , i cant see any imediate change , in the democratic process politicians are elected to protect our rights and represent the whishes on their electorate , but what has happened ? our rights have been eroded and after election the elected politicians sit around and make up there minds on what to do , nationalizing the financial system would be a start , but now im raving , apologies , back to original Q. Enjoy ! Experience ! and most important of all , Be Excellant to one another !
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    What is the Meaning of Life.? as it cannot be to Destroy Creation.
    Agreed. Our world is but a mote of dust on the cosmic tapestry, a small fraction of creation as you call it. We are not about to destroy creation. Far from it. In fact, even if you're one of the most careful of individuals, creation will ultimately destroy you instead.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    [QUOTE=kleinton;317497 back to original Q. Enjoy ! Experience ! and most important of all , Be Excellant to one another ![/QUOTE]

    we consist of 2 parts, body and spirit, when the body is no longer capable of suporting life , the spirit departs , to where ? all depends on ones spiritual beliefs , but me , for arguements sake , lets call it the "spirit world.

    So are you saying. within us now, is a form of Energy, which leaves its biological host after time.
    And experience is the reason we are put on the Earth.

    I think understanding is the purpose of life. Gained through experience. I believe we are all connected with every thing in the Universe. And when we have finished
    with our Host we move on. and try to find a new experience, (Learning). maybe we need to start researching bio energy patterns on Earth. To see what we find.
    Kirlian photography may be a good stating point as its images capture certain energy fields after death. anyway drifting back to the question.
    Could understanding be the meaning of life.?
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    as it cannot be to Destroy Creation.
    Actually we and all other animals are heterotroph....so yes we destroy "creation" and couldn't survive without doing so.
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    To Quote you "So are you saying. within us now, is a form of Energy, which leaves its biological host after time.
    And experience is the reason we are put on the Earth. " pretty well bangs the nail on the head ! Eactly , its god's (divine force, supreme being , hell , whats in a name) GIFT to us , to define our own destiny , so take charge of our lives , to learn from experience , and most importantly , make mistakes and to learn from them. i personally dont believe that god intevenes in our lives , part of the gift as i mentioned is to control our own lives , unfortunately i believe , evil people rule , but me personally take a bit from probably all religions , raised catholic , strong buhdist tendancies , believe in re-incarnation , maybe we have lessons ,decided from a previous kama , to learn , i'll know one day , lol ,
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    I'd say that we are just a rare form of planetary disease or cancer that will probably destroy this planet eventually. If that's the way it really is, then I suppose our "purpose", in a philosophical sense, could be to make sure that this planet isn't harmed by our existence. Not that it matters if our planet "lives" or "dies", but at least if it lives, we couldn't be considered "malignant".

    My other theory is a bit more farcical. I think the universe we live in could have been created by some scientist/businessman type of being, who wanted to get ideas for a book, a movie, or perhaps just for copies of our patent databases.

    He set the big bang in action inside some form of computer-like device, waiting for life to build on a planet somewhere. His plan was to observe until we'd make advancements in technology, so that we would create the Internet for conveniently handing over whatever information he'd need.

    I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Google was created for the purpose of collecting all earthly information and transferring it to the "Creator". That would mean Sergey and Larry are just puppets enlisted by "God".

    If that's the case, then our "purpose" is to create as much intellectual content as possible in order to satisfy the "All Knowing". Actually, the more I think about it, this all seems like pretty much trouble for just one being ― maybe the "King of Kings" is actually some form of corporation that creates universes, in order to generate collections of data, created by simulated lifeforms?

    No way to know is there?
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    I see you are in a time in your life in which you are realising the world and what it is. This is a time of great questioning for you, and the only advice I can give you at this point is to be aware that your mind has been programmed to find solutions. Namely for you now to understand life, we may understand the world but the concept of life is never a given, it is too variant and personal to many people. Be aware that your questioning is not you trying to understand the world, rather trying to find a solution to your thought. You will not find the answers out here, you will find the answers in yourself.

    The Matrix once quoted perfecly. Know thyself. Good luck.
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    I'm of the opinion that humanity probably questioned the purpose or the meaning of life before any thoughts of a Creator God entered the picture.... a precursor to theism or religion for that matter. Even today I think it's quite real that people feel God gives meaning or purpose to their lives. It's a natural progression to God for those who deem life having meaning or purpose. The need to answer an otherwise unanswerable question is overwhelming, and unprovable answers are obviously the most satisfying for many people.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    We are close relatives of chimps, and we are an animal that is soposed to live in a group of 8 to 12, and wonder around being hunter gatherers. But we no longer live in the groups that natures DNA programed our species to live in.


    For all the history you speak of, we have lived and acted like chimps, hated our nieghbors like chimps, and comonly killed each other like chimps, and we have had outright leaders like chimps. And even today we still have leaders like deficit God and war starter GW Bush, and our child sex offender protector Pope. We also have dictators that rule us. our leaders are just like the idiot leaders of 1,000 - 2,000 years ago. And in America we still build monuments and buildings for our idiot male leaders, just like Romans did 1,500 years ago.

    We need to change our leaders.


    we live in a world were 10,000's of children starve to death every day
    we are using too many antibiotics in humans
    a germ like the old european plagues could hit us tommorow
    we are destroying the eco-systems of planet earth
    we are letting unthinkable amounts of carbon into the atmosphere
    huge numbers of plants and animals go extint every day
    huge numbers of humans on this planet live in poverty
    we are letting chemicals into rivers that cause cancer, and cause animals to have birth deffects
    a huge rock from outer space could hit earth soon and destroy most life on earth
    we are over populating this planet
    we are taking drugs that are causing cancer and birth defects
    and this list goes on.

    And while these above things are going on, the US republicans want to create their new world, were government leaders are (not) even allowed to feed hungry american children ex. ex. ex. ex. the laws they stand for actually increase all the horrible things listed above.

    And this US republican party (who's Fox news leaders are spreading to europe and asia) is a think controled propaganda group/ cult, that is controled by corporate think tanks, they have told the US republicans 100s of seperate increadable lies, to get them to love tax cuts for the very rich. And it worked, and today american republican men will stand up and say "I do (not) want my government leaders feeding hungry american children, I just want my leaders to lower taxes on the rich and large corporations.

    These men do (not) want their leaders to feed hungry american children, these men do (not) want their leaders to help suffering american womem, these men are no longer men, and these idiots need to be stopped.




    There are many scientists who thinks like us. Green Peaces chairman thinks like us, members of the green party think like us, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates thinks like us. Clinton and Gore think like us, and the person who wrote greendays "American idiot" think like us. So many people think like us, but we are not in a group, and many of us do not even vote.

    Some one should tell Warren Buffet and Bill Gates to fund a website called "save the world." (they would do it, Bill Gates lives to save people from dieing)

    And all the people I listed above should join this group. Theres millions of us and we should be a group, and make a strong stand against these chimp like idiots.

    And from my ((dreams)) I personally would say, they should have 2 well known rules.
    1.) there is no dictator or king, every one votes, and there are term limitations for all politicians, and you only need 1 cent to run for publuc office, instead of $750 million dollars.
    2.) only respectful, inteligent, and honorable, and charitable people could be our leaders. And our leaders should be DNA tested, and psycologically tested to be sure they dont hide bad things about themselves.


    And today we have all these conserative idiots, who have us scared and embarressed, to talk about some kind of world government.

    But in reality, men that want their leaders, to (not) feed hungry children, and men who want their leaders to (not) help suffering women, should not even be talking. we let these non-men idiots make us scared to talk, they should be the ones scared to talk.


    These idiots would call me a communist, but I love creating new business' more than your avarage person, and I hate kings and dictators more than your avarage person, I am not a communist, I am just a human who wants to stop our species present path of destruction and utter waste.




    I think we need (some) form of world government, and we all need to read that above list, and think about this planets present path. It makes me remember even the host of Nova on pbs feels like us. He thinks aliens from other planets, could look at us threw a telascope and see how stupid we are, just by seeing all the carbon in our atmosphere.


    Heres how I personally think, (the following is a very rough draft) and out of order, but I dont have the time to edit.

    but I hope it shows the way i think.



    I do not want these things for myself, I want these things to fix the problems above.


    I learned when I was in my early 20s, that 32,000 children starve to death everyday, and I could never understand why every one did not care about them.

    And my suroundings caused me to realize what woman in South America, India, Africa, and asia are like. And me being a non-homosexual man, I feel the desire for (all) woman on earth, to be happy, healthy, and safe.

    Its just when woman in Africa are dieing, from lack of water, call me crazy, but I want to drop everything to save them.



    And in documentarys I watch, I see men around Tanna and in Africa, that live traditionally, as you say natives, and these men love and respect us (americans). They would give us water and food if we were hungry. They have increadable amounts of respect for us, and they would save our lives if they could.


    And these men ask nothing from us, they just love us. And being the way these men respect us, I would like to give them, anything that would make them healthy and happy. They would help me, and I want to help them.



    I would like to take this thing called free market capitalism, and forget about it. We should realize that free market capitalism is a primative chimp like way, to run a planet. Like very old traders and their routes.


    I think the worlds governments should take (massive) steps to stop the destruction of this planets, plants, animals and eco-systems. and break away from this chimp like behavior were we dont care about our nieghbors.

    We would all still have jobs, and their would still be colleges.
    .
    But when a scientist says things like, we are using antibiotics to much, there should be a big group of scientists who come into our government, and make rules to stop this.


    And for all the horible things I said on the above list, scientists and government leaders should take instant steps to stop them.



    In our bussiness controled world there is so much waste, just think if we all drove the same car, that got 100 miles to a gallon. It would eliminate so much wasted man hours designing new cars, and looking for oil.

    In a world like this so many jobs in insurance, sales, marketing ex.ex.ex. could be eliminated.



    And we could use these saved work hours to build a space craft, to goto that moon with frozen oceans and look for life. And instead of following free market capitalism, we could follow honorable hearts, and work to make all people on this planet happy.

    Me personally I would rather use human work hours to build a self sustaining colony on the moon and mars, rather than waste time building primative cars that get 40 miles to a gallon, we can make cars so much better, but our free market leaders will not let us.



    But I am not your avarage man, I do not want a BMW to impress my male nieghbors, and I feel the need to impress no one besides my mate. I like to sleep late, and I love any talk with men about having less work. But I always do my share, and do a good enough job.

    I do not care if there was no such thing as money, or privately owned bussiness, or patents, (but if government ever took these things from people they should compensate the owners.) as long as their is no dictator or king, everyone votes, and honorable and inteligent people are our leaders, its all good. Let me sleep late, and avoid un-needed work.


    I want a complex caring inteligent government, that has a government worker in my house 2 minutes after I call 911, when family members of mine are having heart attacks. I want my government to fight cancer and heart desease in massive ways.



    I think most people would be happyer in my kind of world, they could still design clothes, and make art. They could build things, and goto college.


    The only thing difference is, all the stupid insane bad things on earth on the above list would be stopped, and we could all sleep more.


    we could focus human energy and time on science, charity, and happyness, instead of every one serving the one, with the most gold.






    And i want every one to realize that we are stuck on this planet, and at this moment we are powerless little animals stuck on planet earth. (The earth is our protector and mother, and we can not survive with out her.) And untill we have self sustaining human colonys on the moon and mars, we should not be teraforming earth with carbon, letting cancer/ birth defect causing polution out ex. ex.


    And we should not be over perscibing antibiotics, untill there is a self sustained human colony on the moon and mars, that will be seperated from the super resilint germs these idiots are trying to create.

    Instead of wasting human man power making primative cars, and doing sales and marketing, I would rather people build a huge under ground shelter, so many people, plants and animals would survive a big astoroid hit. I think Steven Hawkins ideas made me think like this.





    I am no communist, I just want to stop all the things on the above list, and I dont want honorless idiots being my leaders.
    Last edited by chad; April 6th, 2012 at 04:58 PM.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist."
    Since when does something need a purpose to exist? (and isnt a purpose kind of subjective?)
    How can there be a purpose to existence itself btw? By definition, if there's no existence there cant be a reason or purpose for anything because there's nothing, and the second existence exists, it exists, its too late, whether you like it or not, regardless of any reason or lack of it, there's nothing you can do about it, so imo there's no purpose or reason to existence itself. And if everything can exit without a reason, why should any part of it require an official 'purpose certificate' to exist?
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Chad - calm down. You are acting like a chimp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Chad - calm down. You are acting like a chimp.


    Chad calm down, --- NO.


    10,000s of thousands of children will starve to death in the next 24 hours
    1,000s of women in different countrys will die tomorow, and their deaths could have been avoided
    and 1000s of men who respect (you), will also meet the same fate tommorow



    Let us see, who is acting like a chimp?


    Chimps have no love for chimps, in nieghboring groups, they do not care about those nieghboring chimps in any way.

    John you do not care, when women, children, and men who respect you, (in your nieghboring countrys die), your behavior of not caring at all, is just like a chimp.


    How am I acting like a chimp ??


    with all deserved respects,
    Chad.
    Last edited by chad; April 4th, 2012 at 05:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Chad - calm down. You are acting like a chimp.
    An angry teenager, maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    all I want is to stop all the things on the above list of earths problems.
    And what if someone else wants a different list of things to stop?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Chad - calm down. You are acting like a chimp.
    An angry teenager, maybe.



    I apolagize, I had no idea, you were a teenager, I thought you were a older man. (If I knew, I would not have been so rude, sorry)




    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    all I want is to stop all the things on the above list of earths problems.
    And what if someone else wants a different list of things to stop?


    I assume you are near 18, and a (man.)



    But before this old man gives you your space, I ask you this,



    What things do you want to stop??




    I am sorry for my rude tone, I thought I was talking to a old man, (like myself.)
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    Chad, John was just making fun, no need to go and accuse him of not caring that children are dieing of hunger? Of course we all want things to change, but it is not going to happen overnight. All we can do is to spread a good message and hope society someday evolves in that direction.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    I think I may have in some way, confused you with John, then assumed John was saying, he was a angry teenager.


    But I now think you are saying, that I am acting like a angry teenager.


    But from a human stand point, I have the right to be angry, because of all the horrible things on that list.



    I truely apologize for my rude behavior, and the way I speak to you all (but look at the list, dont you think its natural to get mad about those things??)


    I just want to point out, that you and John Galt, started talking to me, I did not start this conversation.


    But I would love to see (your) list, of the things that upset you.


    I wish you and John, both to be very well,
    Chad.
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    I think you have me and Strange mixed up now.

    Anyway, yes, I can't blame you for feeling passionately about injustices in the world. In fact, I feel the same way, as I am sure both John and Strange do.

    I wish you well too chad.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Chad, John was just making fun, no need to go and accuse him of not caring that children are dieing of hunger? Of course we all want things to change, but it is not going to happen overnight. All we can do is to spread a good message and hope society someday evolves in that direction.




    I am a person who does not like large crowds or giving any form of public speaches. And I guess I am not good at communicating in places like this.

    I do not really want to upset or hurt any of you.


    And I say this to any person who has ever spoken to me in this forum, thank you for your professionalism and putting up with me.



    And I want to thank you all, for letting me know, that people are not as bad, as I sometimes think they are.


    And after looking back, on the proffesionalism and respect, of the comments posted by Kalster, Strange, and John Galt. I can say that this world is in better hands than I thought.
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    Chad,
    Many of the problems on your list is shared by most of the human population living on earth in that we all wish we lived in an utopia idealogical environment. The reality is we would require a much bigger planet with unlimited resources in order to eliminate all those items on your list. Competition of those resources has been a problem of all species since the beginning of life and that is why we cannot eliminate the powerful and greedy individuals that have acquired a great deal of power over our lives in their position they have in society.

    As your thinking we were created for a purpose only exists in the minds of our species who have been educated by their religious faith to believe that they do. The reality of the natural world is we are born to struggle with survival and live hopefully long enough to produce the next generation and then die. A continuous recycling of energy of life and death that ended up being sufficient enough to continue this cycle as long as the planet is capable of supporting this web of living and recycled energy.

    We give ourselves purpose for our existance but the problem is we haven't figured out yet how it should be defined. Religions created a definition of purpose that has such high standards of how we should behave that are unrealistic on a planet that must compete for survival. We all may envision a better world of a Garden of Eden but it is not possible on this planet.
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    [QUOTE=Barbi;318141]Chad,
    The reality is we would require a much bigger planet with unlimited resources in order to eliminate all those items on your list.






    I dont think this is correct.

    The problems I speek of, can be fixed with water wells, water filters, tractors, simple vitamins, chicken breeding, and modern american farm methods.

    And with Greenparty like leadership. Also all the scientists I speak of would ((love)) to help governments solve those problems.


    If 75% of the energy/ resources that is used by the US Military, was used to fight the things on that list, those problems would be gone. And perhaps you did not catch my whole post, but I spoke of people not wasting resources, my ideas to fix those problems, would cause humans to use much, much, much less resources.








    that is why we cannot eliminate the powerful and greedy individuals that have acquired a great deal of power over our lives in their position they have in society.







    I have these 2 satalite tv channels link and freespeach tv, and they have taught me many things most people dont know.

    The trueth is america has always knocked out, and taken out the greedy individuals you speak of above.
    Early american president Thomas Jefferson used to kick those mens butts, and all of americas politicians and news papers have always kicked those mens butts.

    These men you speak of were in their place, untill Reagan fully let them out, so they could control our government.




    And all of us forget, that socialist countrys in Europe like Switzerland, Norway, and Finland. These people have it going on.

    They have lower deficits and debt than the rest of us. They have better standards of living and scientificly tested happyer people.They have normal drug laws and less addicts. And the rich and poor respect each other. These people are living like inteligent/moral people, and we dont even notice.





    The reality of the natural world is we are born to struggle with survival and live hopefully long enough to produce the next generation and then die.






    This is what animals are destined for, humans deserve more, and humans can do better than this.


    I think we could make a world like the Garden of Eden, only it would be better, because we would have electricity, better food, insect protection, and great medical care.

    Chad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Chad - calm down. You are acting like a chimp.

    How am I acting like a chimp ??
    Chad, you obviously know something of chimp behaviour. You know that they can be very single minded animals. When they do not get what they want they become agitated, emotional and often aggressive. If they are lower in the heirarchy and and are being thwarted in their wishes by a chimp of higher status they will often lash out at 'innocent bystanders'.

    With that knowledge and a modicum of introspection please tell me in what way you are not acting like a chimp.

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Let us see, who is acting like a chimp?


    Chimps have no love for chimps, in nieghboring groups, they do not care about those nieghboring chimps in any way.

    John you do not care, when women, children, and men who respect you, (in your nieghboring countrys die), your behavior of not caring at all, is just like a chimp.


    How am I acting like a chimp ??
    You will have to demonstrate how you came by this knowledge that I do not care about these deaths. Alternatively you could retract the statement.

    Kalster suggested that I was just poking a little fun when I suggested you stop acting like a chimp. While the observation was intended to be witty, its intent was much more serious than some brief humour.

    Unless you have the gifts of a great orator then emotionally charged pleas come across as nothing more than hysterical ranting. This defeats the very goals you wish to achieve right at the outset. People respond much more to reasoned argument accompanied by commitment and passion. So I say again Chad, stop acting like a chimp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    I assume you are near 18, and a (man.)

    But before this old man gives you your space, I ask you this,

    What things do you want to stop??

    I am sorry for my rude tone, I thought I was talking to a old man, (like myself.)
    Well, I was going to say I envy you your youthful enthusiasm, but I guess that is inappropriate.

    My point was not about what I want to stop but more about how do you run a diverse society with lots of people with different ideals and different priorities. One consequence is that you will sometime have to put up with money being spent on things you don't think are important, or governments prioritizing other problems above the ones you think are most important, etc.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    With that knowledge and a modicum of introspection please tell me in what way you are not acting like a chimp.









    How am I not acting like a chimp? I am talking and writing, but so are you.


    Maybe its more accurate to say, I am acting like a particular kind of chimp. A chimp that lives on the outskirts of the pack, and does not patrol with the other males to attack harmless tresspassing chimps from other groups. ex. ex. ex.

    Like maybe you said, we are both like chimps, we just have different personallitys.

    .







    You will have to demonstrate how you came by this knowledge that I do not care about these deaths. Alternatively you could retract the statement.









    It seems like you do care in some way.
    And I am sorry if I insulted you.
    I also retract that statement.








    Unless you have the gifts of a great orator then emotionally charged pleas come across as nothing more than hysterical ranting.








    Hysterical ranting ??


    10,000s of children will starve to death tomorow, and US government peanut butter and bottled water could save them.

    I dont even know who you are.



    Do you care more about football and basket ball than matters like these ??


    In the next year millions of children will starve to death, that could eazyly be saved with US government peanut butter, and large US government bottles of water.

    and the US government is not saving them.

    I should be much more hysterical, thank you for bringing this to my attention.








    So I say again Chad, stop acting like a chimp.[/QUOTE]





    Its very ironic, you are telling me to stop acting like a chimp, when (you) are acting 1,000,000,000x more like a chimp than me.
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    Chad,
    emotional outbursts do nothing to address the very real problems you highlight. The emotion distracts from the message. All the casual passerby sees is the raw emotion, few stop to consider the content of the message. I've told you this once, you chose to ignore it. That's sad since it directly contributes to the continuance of the situation you deplore. So, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go about doing something constructive to address these issues rather than engage with a well meaning, but overly emotional ranter.
    JG

    P.S. Can you tell me on what dates you emailed, wrote or petitioned your congressman and state senators to use supplies of peanut butter and bottled water to save starving children? Can you direct me to the newspapers to whom you wrote tightly argued propositions in favour of such action? Can you briefly describe the talks you have given to local community groups requesting support for such action, or seeking financial contributions for aid?
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    The emotion distracts from the message. All the casual passerby sees is the raw emotion, few stop to consider the content of the message.
    That's probably particularly true with this group of scientifically minded people, where facts, quantification and good reasoning, tend to speak louder than emotional arguments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Chad,
    emotional outbursts do nothing to address the very real problems you highlight. The emotion distracts from the message. All the casual passerby sees is the raw emotion, few stop to consider the content of the message. I've told you this once, you chose to ignore it. That's sad since it directly contributes to the continuance of the situation you deplore. So, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go about doing something constructive to address these issues rather than engage with a well meaning, but overly emotional ranter.
    JG










    I guess it was an emotional outburst, I personally have come to call them political exposions. I am sorry, I cant help myself. Part of me says to hell with it, I will just do what I do. But is this forum a place for such long emotional outbursts? maybe not.

    And you are not the only person, who feels this way about my posts, Lynx_Fox and others also feel the same.


    In all I have ever said, I still feel I am 99% correct, and you are 99% wrong.



    But I must say, and I am glad to say, I cant call any of you a bad person.


    And after realizing the accuracy of your emotional outburst comments, I do not have the energy or desire to post reply attack you, for certain things you said above.

    But I would like too.










    P.S. Can you tell me on what dates you emailed, wrote or petitioned your congressman and state senators to use supplies of peanut butter and bottled water to save starving children? Can you direct me to the newspapers to whom you wrote tightly argued propositions in favour of such action? Can you briefly describe the talks you have given to local community groups requesting support for such action, or seeking financial contributions for aid?









    I can almost smell, the use-less trivial republican style, in your above try to change the subject arguement.



    You want dates when I emailed congress men?

    I will not even respond to these requests, because it has nothing to do with the facts. Whether I have sent letters to government officials has nothing to do with anything.

    If you wish to question my integrity, ask me a real question.


    At first, (and at times), during these posts with you in this thread, I have really enjoyed myself, but when I realize what you are actually saying, the enjoyment just goes away. But its still enjoyable (at times.)

    I hope for some moment, you had that same joy, in writing your posts to me.

    Chad.
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    [QUOTE=chad;318177]
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbi View Post
    The problems I speek of, can be fixed with water wells, water filters, tractors, simple vitamins, chicken breeding, and modern american farm methods.
    Won't happen. Since I was a teenager, I've personally seen attempts at which you speak of and, without revealing too much of who I am or what I do, I have come to think that there are no instant fixes. As much as I deplore many of the things Chad listed, I don't really think much of any kind of fixing is possible for many reasons. For example, something as simple (or complex) as cultural differences can be a gigantic roadblock.

    Briefly speaking.......Digging wells is great except now you have to deal with things like landowners (or territorial chiefs) and paying tributes. You can dig wells one year, go back 2 years later and people are still in need of water. No one wants to pay so the well ends up contaminated or backfilled. Things like water filters and machinery gets stolen, sold off or put to some other unintended use. Brand new tractors can be found a year later in the middle of a field where they broke down or ran out of gas, just sitting there collecting rust. Many other items never reach the poor, black marketeers have it all.

    I've seen this with my own eyes. I talk with others similarly involved and the feelings of hopelessness are more or less mutual, although it's tough to admit. I've tried to make sense of it and I've come to the conclusion that people (nations) if left to their own devices will eventually figure it out or die trying. Let them come to us instead of us interfering with someone else's traditions and customs, some we as North Americans can't fathom. Our only agenda should be to help when someone in need asks. It's not an easy road and never has been. It sounds callous and maybe it is but I've grown a tough exterior against what I perceive as the enabling of corruption and hidden agendas. I've already said too much so I'm stopping here.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; April 6th, 2012 at 10:24 AM.
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    whoops.. I double posted in error..sorry
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    If there is something behind this thing then we are not meant to understand this. I believe that there is a more powerful thing that can help us with dealing with our mind. I think all is like it's supposed to be, we just don't and will never understand these things. We might understand other things but not this.
    My oppinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    I can almost smell, the use-less trivial republican style, in your above try to change the subject arguement.
    You post an anti-Republican rant on a thread about the meaning of life, and then accuse someone else of trying to change the subject?
    Is this what gives meaning to your life, Chad?
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    When a not so simple question deteriorates into what we have just witnessed What can we Learn. But before a reply, remember Respect.
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    [QUOTE=zinjanthropos;318523]
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbi View Post
    The problems I speek of, can be fixed with water wells, water filters, tractors, simple vitamins, chicken breeding, and modern american farm methods.
    Won't happen. Since I was a teenager, I've personally seen attempts at which you speak of and, without revealing too much of who I am or what I do, I have come to think that there are no instant fixes. As much as I deplore many of the things Chad listed, I don't really think much of any kind of fixing is possible for many reasons. For example, something as simple (or complex) as cultural differences can be a gigantic roadblock.













    From a documentary called "the best government money can buy" I learned that US politicians spend most of their time planing, and going to lunch partys, that cost $50,000+ a plate. It cost $750 million dollars to be able to run for president, and only a fool would trust these money hunting politicians with anything, other than raising campain money.


    But you do make some good points, and put some holes in my ideas. You are correct that leaders like the Korean dictator, will not allow help like I speak of, but this is the exeption, and not the rule. In most areas of the world, no one would fight america for bringing clean water to their children. Only certain insane dictators and republican minded people (and corporate news zombies) will fight bringing clean water to children.

    You claim there are no quick fixes, but heres one, place a normal human being like Mother Teresa in power.














    Briefly speaking.......Digging wells is great except now you have to deal with things like landowners (or territorial chiefs) and paying tributes. You can dig wells one year, go back 2 years later and people are still in need of water. No one wants to pay so the well ends up contaminated or backfilled. Things like water filters and machinery gets stolen, sold off or put to some other unintended use. Brand new tractors can be found a year later in the middle of a field where they broke down or ran out of gas, just sitting there collecting rust. Many other items never reach the poor, black marketeers have it all.











    This is the exception and not the rule. All you said above is only 10% true. Only insane dictators and republican minded people, will fight against bringing clean water to children.













    I've seen this with my own eyes. I talk with others similarly involved and the feelings of hopelessness are more or less mutual, although it's tough to admit. I've tried to make sense of it and I've come to the conclusion that people (nations) if left to their own devices will eventually figure it out or die trying. Let them come to us instead of us interfering with someone else's traditions and customs, some we as North Americans can't fathom. Our only agenda should be to help when someone in need asks. It's not an easy road and never has been. It sounds callous and maybe it is but I've grown a tough exterior against what I perceive as the enabling of corruption and hidden agendas. I've already said too much so I'm stopping here.











    This is not correct either, look at american republicans they are going backwards, and you cant just sit back and watch.

    The republican tradition and custom, is to give billionaires a 0% tax rate, and give americans who make 60,000 a year a 30% tax rate. While at the same time trying to end all government assistance to poor people.

    These traditions are insane and evil, and must be interfered with.
    Last edited by chad; April 6th, 2012 at 04:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    I can almost smell, the use-less trivial republican style, in your above try to change the subject arguement.
    You post an anti-Republican rant on a thread about the meaning of life, and then accuse someone else of trying to change the subject?
    Is this what gives meaning to your life, Chad?




    If you actually read the titled post "what is the meaning of life and creation. And where..."

    You would see that I am more on subject than you.


    Its nice to speak to you again Harold, and I wish we were more friendly to each other.



    Chad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    When a not so simple question deteriorates into what we have just witnessed What can we Learn. But before a reply, remember Respect.






    I deleted my original post here, because I think I may have saw your remarks the wrong way.

    sorry,
    Chad.
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    So the meaning of life and creation is ranting on a science forum.....?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    So the meaning of life and creation is ranting on a science forum.....?
    No because it serves no purpose, We have to move beyond this as one ( COMPROMISE) to get closer to the meaning of life
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    Chad said:
    Only certain insane dictators and republican minded people (and corporate news zombies) will fight bringing clean water to children.
    If the meaning of life is to attain power and control the masses then how can you begrudge those that manage to achieve it? Hence, your words carry little weight. Don't worry, you're not alone, life's like a sporting event with 50000 referees in the arena but only the one on the field has the power to arbitrate.

    By giving us lists of remedies and such you are behaving like the very same people you rant against. One exception, you have no power. If the meaning of life is to rant against those in control then you have succeeded.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    If there is meaning to life, I would hope that most don't agree that having power to control the masses by the corrupt methods for which is done is a acceptable meaning to life.
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    The following is from wiki


    The meaning of life is a concept that provides an answer to the philosophical question concerning the purpose and significance of life or existence in general. It can be expressed through answering a variety of related questions, such as "Why are we here?" "What is life all about?" and "What is the meaning of it all?" It has been the subject of much philosophical, scientific, and theological speculation throughout history. There have been a large number of theories to these questions from many different cultural and ideological backgrounds. Even so, the meaning of life could manifest that question itself: "what is the meaning of life," or life seeking the meaning of itself.
    The meaning of life is deeply entrenched in the philosophical and religious conceptions of existence, social ties, consciousness, and happiness, and borders on many other issues, such as symbolic meaning, ontology, value, purpose, ethics, good and evil, free will, conceptions of God, the existence of God, the soul, and the afterlife. Scientific contributions focus primarily on describing related empirical facts about the universe, exploring the context and parameters concerning the 'how' of life. Science also provides its own recommendations for the pursuit of well-being and a related conception of morality. An alternative, humanistic approach poses the question "What is the meaning of my life?" The value of the question pertaining to the purpose of life may coincide with the achievement of ultimate reality, or a feeling of oneness, or even a feeling of sacredness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    The following is from wiki


    The meaning of life is a concept that provides an answer to the philosophical question concerning the purpose and significance of life or existence in general. It can be expressed through answering a variety of related questions, such as "Why are we here?" "What is life all about?" and "What is the meaning of it all?" It has been the subject of much philosophical, scientific, and theological speculation throughout history. There have been a large number of theories to these questions from many different cultural and ideological backgrounds. Even so, the meaning of life could manifest that question itself: "what is the meaning of life," or life seeking the meaning of itself.
    The meaning of life is deeply entrenched in the philosophical and religious conceptions of existence, social ties, consciousness, and happiness, and borders on many other issues, such as symbolic meaning, ontology, value, purpose, ethics, good and evil, free will, conceptions of God, the existence of God, the soul, and the afterlife. Scientific contributions focus primarily on describing related empirical facts about the universe, exploring the context and parameters concerning the 'how' of life. Science also provides its own recommendations for the pursuit of well-being and a related conception of morality. An alternative, humanistic approach poses the question "What is the meaning of my life?" The value of the question pertaining to the purpose of life may coincide with the achievement of ultimate reality, or a feeling of oneness, or even a feeling of sacredness.
    The point is we define the meaning of life and are currently the only known species that does.
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    [mee-ning]
    noun 1. what is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated; signification; import: the three meanings of a word.

    2. the end, purpose, or significance of something: What is the meaning of life? What is the meaning of this intrusion?



    I am confused by words "the end" in 2. above.




    In my mind I feel the 2. definition above is conflicting, "purpose and significance" seem to (me) to go togeter, but the words "the end" to me seem to conflict with them.



    2. the end,


    Does this imply there is a end?

    What is going to end?





    What is the meaning to life?




    I need to find out what the word meaning means, in the 2. definition above.


    What is the meaning of the word meaning, in 2. above?
    Last edited by chad; April 9th, 2012 at 07:17 AM.
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    In the 2. in the above post.



    Are religous people, that have end of the world thoughts, and thoughts the world will end.


    Are they the reason people are partly confused about this?


    And are these end of the world religous thoughts, the reason many people are so negative?











    My best guess at this moment,

    I would say the question, what is the meaning of life? has 100's of different answers. We are all different and each of our meaning of life will be different. And I strongly believe that our cultures, can make what will be the meaning of our lives.


    but what is the most common, meaning of life? I would say to be confortable and happy, (and also realize people have different ways of being happy, One persons pleasure is another persons pain.)


    Who does not want to be confortable and happy?



    What is the meaning of life? I think theres 100's of answers,
    but I say its "for every one to be conforatable and happy."

    after all it is the most common meaning of life, stated.
    Last edited by chad; April 8th, 2012 at 12:15 AM.
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    To be comfortable and happy what details must in place for that to occur that would apply to everyone?
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    There is a clockmaker who sits on a stool. He is building an infinite clock. Every second he must add another cog to the clock.

    We are cog number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736

    The meaning of life is to be cog number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736.
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    Who does not want to be confortable....
    Quite a few people find strength and value in asceticism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbi View Post
    To be comfortable and happy what details must in place for that to occur that would apply to everyone?



    I dont know, but I wish I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbi View Post
    If there is meaning to life, I would hope that most don't agree that having power to control the masses by the corrupt methods for which is done is a acceptable meaning to life.
    Neither do I but the whole reason I mentioned it was to show that the meaning of life could be anything to anybody. There's no true answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    I think my manual had a few pages missing ?
    Seems like everybody has different pages missing (and some have more missing than others!).

    If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist. The fact we exist states purpose
    Hmmmm. I just don't see the necessity for purpose. Most things seem to exist as a simple (or not so simple) consequence of thermodynamics/entropy.
    IMO, the answer is contained in Strange's avatar. What was the purpose for this broccoli to have a perfect fractal structure? As does a fern and almost everything in nature, including the brain, neural and arterial systems. Perhaps even the very structure of the universe.
    Perhaps the answer lies in the ability and flexibility of CDT (causal dynamic triangulation) to build complex structures from the selfreplication of a simple fundamental building block.

    The purpose is defined by natural selection. That which survives the test of time has "found' its purpose within its environment. What is the purpose of a bee? It survives through a symbiotic relationship with flowering plants. In turn the flowering plants compete for the bee's attention with brilliant colors and aromatics. A vulture has found its purpose as cleaner of diseased carcasses. In turn vultures are blessed with a remarkable immune sytem.

    As to man? In spite of our intelligence we are newcomers and still developing our purpose as humans. So far we have failed miserably. But time will inevitably define our purpose. If not, we will most likely go the route of billions of previous organic species, extinction. Nature has no preferences. It only rewards those who successfully withstand the test of time.

    Consider this, if I build an ant-farm, does that change the purpose of the ants?
    Last edited by Write4U; April 9th, 2012 at 12:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    I can almost smell, the use-less trivial republican style, in your above try to change the subject arguement.
    I recommend you have your olofactory system checked out. I was once accused by my American boss of being a communist. I replied that I was not, but that I did consider that Lenin was dangerously right wing. In other words my sympathies do not lie with the general Republican ethos. Members who have any feel for my outlook will have recognised that I am a socialist, with a small 's', in the European sense.

    I have not changed the subject. You are decrying what you see as the heartless disregard for the plight of the starving, the poverty stricken and the exploited of the world. You accuse - yes you have the sel-righteous gall to accuse - persons you do not know, of being indifferent to this situation simply because they refuse to jump on your emotional bandwagon. You choose to criticise me - it is fair that I criticise you.

    I charge that you are making yourself feel less guilty by attacking others in emotional rants, rather than by doing something constructive to try to change matters. Emotional rants will not do that. Letters to your congresmen and senators may. Fund raising efforts will. Calm, rational appeals to friends and local community groups can.

    If your intent is to improve the lot of those you speak so emotionally about, then I have assuredly not changed the subject, but zeroed in on the heart of the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    I think my manual had a few pages missing ?
    Seems like everybody has different pages missing (and some have more missing than others!).

    If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist. The fact we exist states purpose
    Hmmmm. I just don't see the necessity for purpose. Most things seem to exist as a simple (or not so simple) consequence of thermodynamics/entropy.
    IMO, the answer is contained in Strange's avatar. What was the purpose for this broccoli to have a perfect fractal structure? As does a fern and almost everything in nature, including the brain, neural and arterial systems. Perhaps even the very structure of the universe.
    Perhaps the answer lies in the ability and flexibility of CDT (causal dynamic triangulation) to build complex structures from the selfreplication of a simple fundamental building block.

    The purpose is defined by natural selection. That which survives the test of time has "found' its purpose within its environment. What is the purpose of a bee? It survives through a symbiotic relationship with flowering plants. In turn the flowering plants compete for the bee's attention with brilliant colors and aromatics. A vulture has found its purpose as cleaner of diseased carcasses. In turn vultures are blessed with a remarkable immune sytem.

    As to man? In spite of our intelligence we are newcomers and still developing our purpose as humans. So far we have failed miserably. But time will inevitably define our purpose. If not, we will most likely go the route of billions of previous organic species, extinction. Nature has no preferences. It only rewards those who successfully withstand the test of time.

    Consider this, if I build an ant-farm, does that change the purpose of the ants?
    IMO, the answer is contained in Strange's avatar. What was the purpose for this broccoli to have a perfect fractal structure?


    The universe is most likely a fractal, but that isn't really a meaning of life. It is a creation of all things with no real meaning. Each fractal is a cog, we are cog number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736. The only meaning to it is identity.

    Your thinking of purpose has given me an idea to add to this...

    The bee pollinates the flowers, we identify all things. We give them a name, and a number, and then put them together in different ways. I suppose we would be called builders, and our purpose would be to build. Our enemies would be other builders, and we would want to destroy their buildings.

    So if there was a purpose beyond building structures it would be a final structure.. and the final structure would probably be another universe. And that's exactly what I am building.
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    So before the big bang we had Zero?
    Now we are at number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736
    so every time we destroy something we take a number out of the Fractal cog
    Mother nature decides to create a new strain virus so we add a number back in which destroys other numbers
    So do we need to get back to Zero again, for the answer . or is Zero the answer
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    We are close relatives of chimps, and we are an animal that is soposed to live in a group of 8 to 12, and wonder around being hunter gatherers. But we no longer live in the groups that natures DNA programed our species to live in.

    For all the history you speak of, we have lived and acted like chimps, hated our nieghbors like chimps, and comonly killed each other like chimps, and we have had outright leaders like chimps.
    I should like to bring your attention that the Bonobo Chimpanzee is a very peaceful speciation of the "Common Chimpanzee".
    They live peacefully in large groups (sometimes 100) and welcome members of other gropus. When food is abundant, they even tolerate unrelated species in their territory.
    They may well be the most peaceful hominid. Apparently they have a unique genetic adaption where anger does not trigger aggressive and violent responses, but rather sexual arousal. It is a matriarchal society and perhaps this has resulted in a more gentle and nurturing society.

    From Wiki,

    Behaviour
    Primatologist Frans de Waal states that bonobos are capable of altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience, and sensitivity.[3]

    Peacefulness
    Observations in the wild indicate that the males among the related common chimpanzee communities are extraordinarily hostile to males from outside the community. Parties of males 'patrol' for the unfortunate neighbouring males that might be travelling alone, and attack those single males, often killing them.[43]
    This does not appear to be the behaviour of bonobo males or females in their own communities, where they seem to prefer sexual contact over violent confrontation with outsiders. In fact, the Japanese scientists who have spent the most time working with wild bonobos describe the species as extraordinarily peaceful, and De Waal has documented how bonobos may often resolve conflicts with sexual contact (hence the "make love – not war" characterization for the species). Between groups social mingling may occur, in which members of different communities have sex and groom each other, behaviour which is unheard of among common chimpanzees
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    I can almost smell, the use-less trivial republican style, in your above try to change the subject arguement.
    I recommend you have your olofactory system checked out.


    (It works fine.)



    I was once accused by my American boss of being a communist. I replied that I was not, but that I did consider that Lenin was dangerously right wing. In other words my sympathies do not lie with the general Republican ethos. Members who have any feel for my outlook will have recognised that I am a socialist, with a small 's', in the European sense.



    (Then I was very wrong of my labeling of you, thanks for the lesson.)




    I have not changed the subject.



    (Then you asked meaningless questions in the style of US republicans.)



    You are decrying what you see as the heartless disregard for the plight of the starving, the poverty stricken and the exploited of the world. You accuse - yes you have the sel-righteous gall to accuse - persons you do not know, of being indifferent to this situation simply because they refuse to jump on your emotional bandwagon. You choose to criticise me - it is fair that I criticise you.





    (Jump on my emotional bandwaggon? I am smart enough to know that most people dont really care about anything.)

    When Hitler first started killing Jewish people it did not even make the front pages of US newspapers, and there are Nazi like dictators in Africa at this moment doing things like Hitler, and the masses do not care.

    Trust me I do not expect more than 1 out of 100 people to side with me.

    (criticise me as hard as you can, I love it.)




    I charge that you are making yourself feel less guilty by attacking others in emotional rants, rather than by doing something constructive to try to change matters. Emotional rants will not do that. Letters to your congresmen and senators may. Fund raising efforts will. Calm, rational appeals to friends and local community groups can.



    (I am just being myself.)




    If your intent is to improve the lot of those you speak so emotionally about, then I have assuredly not changed the subject, but zeroed in on the heart of the matter.


    You are very hard to read Sir, and I am very sorry I upset you like this. I am sorry. I am sorry.
    Last edited by chad; April 9th, 2012 at 04:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    So before the big bang we had Zero?
    Now we are at number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736
    so every time we destroy something we take a number out of the Fractal cog
    Mother nature decides to create a new strain virus so we add a number back in which destroys other numbers
    So do we need to get back to Zero again, for the answer . or is Zero the answer
    You can't destroy a cog, only change it into something else. If we are builders, we are tying to fit infinite cogs into a computer, which is the most likely end result. A simulated universe that works just like a real universe. And we might be in one now, because it might have happened before.
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    Pincho Paxton,

    W4U,
    IMO, the answer is contained in Strange's avatar. What was the purpose for this broccoli to have a perfect fractal structure?
    The universe is most likely a fractal, but that isn't really a meaning of life. It is a creation of all things with no real meaning. Each fractal is a cog, we are cog number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736. The only meaning to it is identity.
    I am sorry if I was not clear in my conclusion.

    The point I was trying to make is that Nature selects our purpose. The evolution (natural selection) of species seems to slow down, except for refinement of particular survival skills, when they have found a niche in their environment, which gives them the ability to successfully procreate.

    Perhaps our very ability to control our environment also brings the danger that unwittingly we destroy that which we need for survival along with untold other species which are unable to adapt to the changes we create.

    As Hellstrom observed, there are only two macro species which are increasing in fertility. Humans, because we can control our environment (we think), and the insect, which can adapt to any change we throw at them (witness DDT).

    In spite of our intelligence, the greatest flaw in the evolution of man is in the area of critical thinking and the lack of wisdom in considering the natural consequences of our actions. The emergence of a smart ape (homo sapiens) in nature was a lucky accident of a single genetic mutation.
    Unfortunately it did not make us wiser, just smarter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    So before the big bang we had Zero?
    Now we are at number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736
    so every time we destroy something we take a number out of the Fractal cog
    Mother nature decides to create a new strain virus so we add a number back in which destroys other numbers
    So do we need to get back to Zero again, for the answer . or is Zero the answer
    You can't destroy a cog, only change it into something else. If we are builders, we are tying to fit infinite cogs into a computer, which is the most likely end result. A simulated universe that works just like a real universe. And we might be in one now, because it might have happened before.
    That seems to be a problem in a fractal universe, it would require a computer whith infinite memory capacity. Then again the universe itself might be a virtual computer, who knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    So before the big bang we had Zero?
    Now we are at number 20436721187623542976383535616728773972987459874957 93495798496749698109586872736
    so every time we destroy something we take a number out of the Fractal cog
    Mother nature decides to create a new strain virus so we add a number back in which destroys other numbers
    So do we need to get back to Zero again, for the answer . or is Zero the answer
    You can't destroy a cog, only change it into something else. If we are builders, we are tying to fit infinite cogs into a computer, which is the most likely end result. A simulated universe that works just like a real universe. And we might be in one now, because it might have happened before.
    That seems to be a problem in a fractal universe, it would require a computer whith infinite memory capacity. Then again the universe itself might be a virtual computer, who knows.
    There are maths with no ends like Ring Mathematics, and knot mathematics. If you programmed a computer to use those, you don't require infinite memory capacity. I could write the program on my home computer. and it could handle 60000 cogs, and the same program on a NASA computer would handle a trillion cogs, but the program would be the same, because it's a fractal, and fractals are always the same.
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    I mentioned elsewhere in this forum, but I believe it bears repeating. Renata Loll (among others) is the author of the theory of CDT (Causal Dynamic Triangulation)

    Causal dynamical triangulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    From Wiki
    The disadvantageous aspect of this theory is that it relies heavily on computer simulations to generate results by Monte Carlo simulation. Some feel that this makes CDT a less "elegant" solution to the problem of creating a completely successful quantum gravity theory. Also, it has been argued that discrete time-slicing may not accurately reproduce all possible modes of a dynamical system. However, research by Markopoulou and Smolin[citation needed] demonstrates that the cause for those concerns may be limited. Therefore, many physicists still regard this line of reasoning as promising
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method

    It is very easy to create a small set of fractals, however it is an exponential function and the data generated becomes staggeringly large very quickly. Especially when theoretically you can reduce the size of individual fractals down to Planck scale (in 3D), which you would have to do to simulate the universe (as we know it).

    Here are some examples of the creativeness that can be achieved with fractals.

    fractals in nature - Bing Images
    Last edited by Write4U; April 9th, 2012 at 01:04 PM.
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    when things tend to become so sophisticated the closest answer to reality is the simplest of answers !
    based of this quote/equation i can say that the purpose of life is life itself . the continuity and evolution of existence through us humans or through anything else it really doesn't matter those who survive are those who deserve to survive what is essential is that life or in other words this energy that floats all around the existence always finds a way to keep on floating through different variances or in other word (0101 or genetic combinations that give us dinosaurs, humans or computers) to each his role in the process of time and evolution .so just like a stream of water running down the hill when one road blocks its way it finds another and moves on ... From planet to planet galaxy to galaxy even through multiple universes . LIFE HAS NO PURPOSE LIFE IS THE PURPOSE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z@T@RA18 View Post
    when things tend to become so sophisticated the closest answer to reality is the simplest of answers !
    based of this quote/equation i can say that the purpose of life is life itself . the continuity and evolution of existence through us humans or through anything else it really doesn't matter those who survive are those who deserve to survive what is essential is that life or in other words this energy that floats all around the existence always finds a way to keep on floating through different variances or in other word (0101 or genetic combinations that give us dinosaurs, humans or computers) to each his role in the process of time and evolution .so just like a stream of water running down the hill when one road blocks its way it finds another and moves on ... From planet to planet galaxy to galaxy even through multiple universes . LIFE HAS NO PURPOSE LIFE IS THE PURPOSE!
    I agree with you that "life is the purpose" by the many different combinations of chemicals that produce all the biodiversity in a ever changing environment through time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z@T@RA18 View Post
    LIFE HAS NO PURPOSE LIFE IS THE PURPOSE!
    This is really the only kind of answer that science has to offer. Unfortunately, it is no help to people trying to figure out how to live their lives, or how to make major decisions in their lives. This is why we all have irrational beliefs. Even atheists who imagine that they do not believe anything, and mock others who have different irrational beliefs.
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    Part of us will survive in the Universe until God makes a new beginning
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag1973 View Post
    Part of us will survive in the Universe until God makes a new beginning
    If you are a survivor from an old beginning then a new beginning does not include you.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag1973 View Post
    Part of us will survive in the Universe until God makes a new beginning
    If you are a survivor from an old beginning then a new beginning does not include you.
    Noah was a survivor for a new beginning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag1973 View Post
    Part of us will survive in the Universe until God makes a new beginning
    If you are a survivor from an old beginning then a new beginning does not include you.
    Noah was a survivor for a new beginning
    What did God begin? The universe according to parag1973 is still there.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Everything, its how you define God which maters.
    I don't believe we were made in his image if that helps.
    And science may explain most of it but not all.
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    What if
    GOD was stone cold drunk when god created earth and doesn't even know or remember the act of creation of which we were(are) so dependent?

    life has no meaning nor purpose\ you are born thanks to the gift of others---and raised thanks to the gift of others(who may have made raising you their purpose)---and, one day, you will die and re-donate your atoms and molecules to the recreation that is the nature of nature

    You, on the other hand have free will
    and can create a purpose and meaning to suit you particular desires
    look within
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    What if GOD was stone cold drunk when god created earth and doesn't even know or remember the act of creation of which we were(are) so dependent?
    The idea that God created booze before the Earth is not something they teach in Theology class.

    Genesis said:
    I don't believe we were made in his image if that helps.
    And science may explain most of it but not all.
    How does you not believing something about God help and what is it helping? What is it you think science is trying to explain?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    as the story goes
    GOD made man in god's image
    but then,
    man, totally incapable of comprehending GOD made gods in man's own image

    and, still the purpose of purpose eludes the wholistic entity "man"
    is there a comprehensible gestalten?
    are "we" ever to be a conscious we
    or is there a gestaltic dictate that leads us blindly through a series of delusional activities whose ultimat purpose is beyond our comprehension?
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    The Creation of the Universe itself is the most fantastic teaching for Mankind
    Understanding through teaching, will lead Mankind closer to the answers
    There are so many things to learn and understand.Things we have never witnessed.
    Like are we alone Universe,and if we are not what would their version be.
    My belief is every thing is connected, finding the connections will take a long time.
    So the more you understand, it will bring you closer to the Answer, Creator, God.
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    Evading questions asked as in post 72 will not hold you in good stead here. When dealing with theists I find this quirk to be quite common. Maybe it deserves a thread in the Behavior & Psychology subforum? In this case however, not answering is the perfect segue to discussing your latest musings.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    There are so many things to learn and understand.Things we have never witnessed.

    So the more you understand, it will bring you closer to the Answer, Creator, God.
    There are plenty of things I've never witnessed but there is also an abundance of evidence that says they happened or exist. We understand our universe more and more each day yet there isn't a single shred of evidence suggesting we will find God at the end of the study.

    For you & I, God is one of those things never witnessed. You're saying the more you understand that God is certain to be there the more likely it is that you won't witness him/her, but the two of you will be closer in the end. That's pretty convenient, so convenient that I applaud your reasoning, albeit somewhat selfish and suspect. You seem to have delicately supported your faith insomuch that you believe it's in good shape. So will you or won't you witness God once all is said and done?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    I always wondered wether if I had a choice of knowing what the meaning of life was wether I'd want to know or wether I'd be disappointed or wether it would just create a whole new bunch of questions.

    I'm leaning to the latter, I think the answers to some questions just lead to other questions and I can think of whole bunch of questions that the answer to this would lead to.
    Why this time in history? Why this planet? Why am I human? ...........................
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    I always wondered wether if I had a choice of knowing what the meaning of life was wether I'd want to know or wether I'd be disappointed or wether it would just create a whole new bunch of questions.

    I'm leaning to the latter, I think the answers to some questions just lead to other questions and I can think of whole bunch of questions that the answer to this would lead to.
    Why this time in history? Why this planet? Why am I human? ...........................
    I dunno Chris, if you are confronted with the answer to the primary question then why inquire about it any longer?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    I always wondered wether if I had a choice of knowing what the meaning of life was wether I'd want to know or wether I'd be disappointed or wether it would just create a whole new bunch of questions.

    I'm leaning to the latter, I think the answers to some questions just lead to other questions and I can think of whole bunch of questions that the answer to this would lead to.
    Why this time in history? Why this planet? Why am I human? ...........................
    I dunno Chris, if you are confronted with the answer to the primary question then why inquire about it any longer?
    I think there is a never an end to the journey, the answer to that question would only be a rest break along the way before setting off again.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post

    I dunno Chris, if you are confronted with the answer to the primary question then why inquire about it any longer?
    I think there is a never an end to the journey, the answer to that question would only be a rest break along the way before setting off again.
    Would you start asking the same question again even if you knew the answer?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post

    I dunno Chris, if you are confronted with the answer to the primary question then why inquire about it any longer?
    I think there is a never an end to the journey, the answer to that question would only be a rest break along the way before setting off again.
    Would you start asking the same question again even if you knew the answer?
    Maybe maybe, it may even be in our nature to do that.
    It may also be that we already have the answer and don't know it or can't accept it or comprehend it. Can we even comprehend just how far 'beyond us' the answer might be. It might be like discussing quantum physics with cavemen.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Evading questions asked as in post 72 will not hold you in good stead here. When dealing with theists I find this quirk to be quite common. Maybe it deserves a thread in the Behavior & Psychology subforum? In this case however, not answering is the perfect segue to discussing your latest musings.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    There are so many things to learn and understand.Things we have never witnessed.

    So the more you understand, it will bring you closer to the Answer, Creator, God.
    There are plenty of things I've never witnessed but there is also an abundance of evidence that says they happened or exist. We understand our universe more and more each day yet there isn't a single shred of evidence suggesting we will find God at the end of the study.

    For you & I, God is one of those things never witnessed. You're saying the more you understand that God is certain to be there the more likely it is that you won't witness him/her, but the two of you will be closer in the end. That's pretty convenient, so convenient that I applaud your reasoning, albeit somewhat selfish and suspect. You seem to have delicately supported your faith insomuch that you believe it's in good shape. So will you or won't you witness God once all is said and done?

    Its the connection not with one Entity, but with al,l and every thing that is how I define God, or Creation, call it what you like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Its the connection not with one Entity, but with al,l and every thing that is how I define God, or Creation, call it what you like
    Ahhhh.....The Avatar Principle. One of my favorite parts of the movie.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Humans and banana trees share about 55% of the same DNA.
    As you look farther back down the evolutionary line to things like bacteria, we share around 40% of their DNA. As you slowly get closer to humans, we begin to share more and more. We share over 60% of our DNA with insects, 75% of our DNA is identical to reptiles, most mammals have 90% of the same DNA as us, and we share 98% of our DNA with chimps, our closest relatives. So scientifically we can prove a connection.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Humans and banana trees share about 55% of the same DNA.
    As you look farther back down the evolutionary line to things like bacteria, we share around 40% of their DNA. As you slowly get closer to humans, we begin to share more and more. We share over 60% of our DNA with insects, 75% of our DNA is identical to reptiles, most mammals have 90% of the same DNA as us, and we share 98% of our DNA with chimps, our closest relatives. So scientifically we can prove a connection.
    I think that's pretty common knowledge these days. So why do you suppose it's that way? Why all the different percentages? You keep mentioning creator so I can only assume you believe he/she designed and manufactured all life forms in this way.

    My belief is every thing is connected, finding the connections will take a long time.
    So the more you understand, it will bring you closer to the Answer, Creator, God.
    If as you say the goal is to understand the creator then why is the Theory of Evolution often dismissed by Creationists? You say science can prove a connection, I take it you are both creationist and evolutionist?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    So, you are not looking for an answer? You are looking for a question. One you know the answer will be god.

    Well, i agree with you on one thing. The question is connected to the answer somehow. The only way to know god exists is to die and see him. But without eyes you can not see.

    Where the destination of life lies, into the same thing what it has done for millions of years on earth. Living, procreating, recreating and consuming.

    The meaning of life, having the most impact on others, with the least efford on your own side, while respecting the values of your community and people you respect and love.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    quote
    I think that's pretty common knowledge these days. So why do you suppose it's that way? Why all the different percentages? You keep mentioning creator so I can only assume you believe he/she designed and manufactured all life forms in this way.

    I do not understand the term He or She designed creation,, I am more interested in the route of creation and the path that connects it all together.
    you look at the word God and transpose it as religions do. That's not the way I see it.
    Try to look at the Universe as a puzzle, the more the puzzle is put together the more you understand every piece is different (Not the same) . Like a jigsaw. But some how they do fit. Their is a connection. to every thing in creation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Try to look at the Universe as a puzzle, the more the puzzle is put together the more you understand every piece is different (Not the same) . Like a jigsaw. But some how they do fit. Their is a connection. to every thing in creation.
    I don't think you're saying anything profound there. Somewhere inside you there's a scientist trying to get out.

    Call it God or whatever you want. That term means nothing in the great scheme of things. I'm so accustomed to God referred to as an entity that I gave any notion of an alternative very little thought. My bad.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    just in case your amnesia ain't ended,
    let me remind you

    You are GOD
    You are life
    You are the purpose of yourself
    .................
    It's only in the last place you look
    IF
    You remember to quit looking when you have found It.
    ......................................
    alternately:
    Ghia(our shared co-evolutionary biosphere) has bred us to be the Lords Of Fire
    so that
    We could end the ice ages
    ................................
    maybe
    Zoroaster was onto something
    long ago and far away
    @" the purpose of humankind is to seek, share, and sustain truth"
    ................
    alternately
    beauty is truth, truth is beauty
    Last edited by sculptor; May 4th, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
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    it is certainly possible to say many artisitic and philosophically soundiong things, but does it actually deliver anything of real value to the listener, or the speaker? I rather doubt it. If I were so inclined I would now say that doubt is the motive power of achievement, or something equally insipid, but I'm not, so I won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    it is certainly possible to say many artisitic and philosophically soundiong things, but does it actually deliver anything of real value to the listener, or the speaker? I rather doubt it. If I were so inclined I would now say that doubt is the motive power of achievement, or something equally insipid, but I'm not, so I won't.
    Doubt, I like that You are unique, The only John Galt with your unique Biological profile to call your own. Even cloning you would not make a difference, or in fact it would
    because you would not be the same. close but not the same. Connected yes but not the same. Now advance your D.N.A profile 1 million years what do we have. Still a connection
    but evolved. The answers will be waiting in the future but, until then, we shall have doubt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    The answers will be waiting in the future but, until then, we shall have doubt.
    Sorry, the effort is there but it isn't working. You may have trouble believing this but John Galt was trying to help you.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    It is not meant as an insult, Doubt keeps us searching for truth. J.G can has many words of wisdom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    just in case your amnesia ain't ended,
    let me remind you

    You are GOD
    You are life
    You are the purpose of yourself
    .................
    It's only in the last place you look
    IF
    You remember to quit looking when you have found It.
    ......................................
    alternately:
    Ghia(our shared co-evolutionary biosphere) has bred us to be the Lords Of Fire
    so that
    We could end the ice ages
    ................................
    maybe
    Zoroaster was onto something
    long ago and far away
    @" the purpose of humankind is to seek, share, and sustain truth"
    ................
    alternately
    beauty is truth, truth is beauty
    That seems almost poetic, like scientic poetry...

    Good effort
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    I think my manual had a few pages missing ?

    Must there? Why do you think that?
    If there is no reason or purpose then you should not exist. The fact we exist states purpose But for what reason is our purpose.?[/QUOTE]
    Preaching deleted by moderator
    Last edited by Harold14370; May 12th, 2012 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Preaching is not allowed on this forum.
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    We are not related to finite Universe enclave in a sky and earth. We are not meant for the universe. Universe is meant for us. It owes its existence because of us. It is visible to naked eye and to logical understanding of "the wise men", that the Universe is coherently structured to relate and serve us. This reflects what place do we occupy in it. We are not infinite but are not that sort of finite as the universe is.
    The kind of conduct that befits the place we occupy in the Universe is mentioned first in the address to humanity. No philosophical puzzles. Just one verbal sentence "demonstrate subservience and allegiance to your Sustainer Lord".




    Sorry its not the way I see it. Them pages are definitively missing in my manual.
    Last edited by Genesis; May 12th, 2012 at 05:01 AM. Reason: to much info
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    Allah the Exalted-the Creator of all that exists, asks this for consideration

    Preaching deleted. Please cease and desist.
    Last edited by Harold14370; May 12th, 2012 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Preaching is not allowed.
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    when religion is co-opted by the power hungry, and the words are twisted
    the path to enlightenment is obscured
    if you would understand,
    first
    throw off the yoke of vassels and lords
    breathe deeply of the life sustaining world
    and seek your own path
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazhara View Post
    Allah the Exalted-the Creator of all that exists, asks this for consideration

    Preaching deleted. Please cease and desist.
    Strange observation---there was a question to study and ponder and then answer----is it called preaching?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazhara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazhara View Post
    Allah the Exalted-the Creator of all that exists, asks this for consideration

    Preaching deleted. Please cease and desist.
    Strange observation---there was a question to study and ponder and then answer----is it called preaching?
    It is preaching when you simply paste quotes from the quran. This is a discussion forum. Pasting quotes is not discussion.
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    The thread poses a question:

    What is the Meaning of life and creation. And where lies its destination.?

    Discussion does not mean talking in vacum--making unsubstantited statements----serious discussion is the one supported by quotes from a book. Qur'aan is a well known book. Treat it as a book like anyother book of world--[why call its quote as preaching]--be on philosphy or science.


    The quote was exactly relevant to the question posed in the thread. Restore it and let it be rebutted by some arguments or quotes from other recognized books on philosophy. Thanks.
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