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Thread: The Illusion of Free Will

  1. #1 The Illusion of Free Will 
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    Fate vs. freewill: You physically are a group of over sixty-trillion living cells that do what they do by themselves. Every second, there are trillions of things happening inside our bodies that keep us from dropping dead, and we have no control over it. Blood is being pumped, cells are being created, hormones distributed; a trillion things out of our control have to happen just for us to digest food, and we are not even aware that it is happening right now.

    People are aware of the fact that they are not in control of the inner workings of their bodies, but most people are not aware of the fact that they do not control what is going on outside of them either. Most people believe they are in control, and the exact opposite is the truth.We are under the absolute control of our environments.You get hungry you eat, need money you work, the phone rings, you answer it, get cold you put on a coat, get hot you take it off, and if you have an itch, you scratch it. Etc

    Then there is larger environmental control; where and when you are born, if you are rich or poor, educated, talent, health, looks, sex and race etc. are your life.It is easy to believe you are in control. After all, you do whatever you want. The truth is that you want to do something because something in your environment gives you a reason to do it, even if it is your mind.*Your mind was and is created by your genetics and your environment, past and present. Your mind is part of your environment, just as your body is, and it is controlled by the larger environment, directly and indirectly.

    You can say lower animals are also in control of what they do and do not do. A bear or wolf can decide what to do from moment to moment, but it is just reacting to what is happening around it. You do the things you do for the same reason a bear or any other animal does what they do.Humans do the same thing as all other animals, but in a slightly less direct way. Our minds give us a greater awareness of the past and future than lower animals. Thus, we take what we have learned in the past and where we want to go in the future into account when we react to the environment, so we react a little less directly than lower animals when we can.Science will realize that Issac Newton's laws of motion mean that the laws that govern all matter include us, because our bodies are matter. We are not in control; free will is an illusion, a delusion. It is "action-reaction" that causes the motion of all things in the universe, including us. There can be no matter in the universe that is exempt from these fundamental laws of nature. His book Principia Mathematica explains the laws of motion, and they have proven to be true. That book is the foundation of modern physics. Our bodies are governed by those same laws, because our bodies are matter in the universe. True or False?Take a closer look at the things you do and you will see the truth. There is always a reason preceding your every action.

    From the mind’s perspective, the world is a huge maze. You have choices, but a limited number of them. You always choose what you think is the best one. *Everyone is playing monkey see monkey do and blindly going around in circles, big and small.The carrot and the stick: People do everything they do to avoid pain and feel pleasure. You walk a path between these forces. It may look like some people are doing something for another reason, but it is an illusion/delusion. Example: Self-sacrificing behavior is only done if it makes the person doing it feel good to do it. To some people, it feels good to help others, or it feels good to do what you think is the right thing to do. You do everything you do for self-preservation and self-gratification directly or indirectly. Every move you make is ultimately for yourself, no matter what you may think or how it appears to others.

    The things you do may not always make you happy, but you always think they are going to eventually, one way or another, or you would not do them.The power of pain: We avoid pain and seek pleasure, and it does not take much of it to control us completely. Most people can and do accept a certain amount of pain in order to get more pleasure in the future in one way or another. They go to work in order to have pleasure later etc. Therefore, you could say that we are not under the direct control of pain and pleasure, and you would be right. People can and do intentionally take some pain and avoid some pleasure, but they still do it to avoid pain or get more pleasure at a later date. Mankind does this a lot, while lower animals are controlled much more directly by the environment. The way mankind deals with the control of pain and pleasure is just less direct and harder to see, but the truth is, it boils down to the same thing.

    The environment controls our every move.Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for insects as well as for the stars. Human beings, vegetables or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance. Albert Einstein Source - The Truth Contest | What is the Ultimate Truth? - The Present.


    Last edited by KALSTER; February 21st, 2012 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Split into paragraphs.
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    If you don't mind, I'll split your block of text into paragraphs for you. :|


    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Yeah I don't mind, I had it nicely split up into sections but it just came out like that
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllThingsMustPass View Post
    Yeah I don't mind, I had it nicely split up into sections but it just came out like that
    I have heard this before. Not sure why that happens. Anyway, do my splits match yours closely enough?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllThingsMustPass View Post
    Fate vs. freewill: You physically are a group of over sixty-trillion living cells that ......... have no control. It is determined for insects as well as for the stars. Human beings, vegetables or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance. Albert Einstein Source - The Truth Contest | What is the Ultimate Truth? - The Present.

    When was the last time you went to a Casino?

    My point for those who still find it hard to understand me?

    We need risk, even in a house of cards...........free will is all around. And Hell is happy for that, because most don't know any better. Only a few it seems play carefully. But that's another thread, right (don't want to derail the topic)...
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    I agree with the Op's post on most of what is stated in that "free will" for the most part is an illusion. It is our environment that offers choices where one can decide to partake in it or decline to participate which gives us "free will" in that area only. Our physical bodies is not in our control for the most part except in the area of choosing nutrition and exercise. There is also flexibility in how we choose to react emotionally to situations and others from our interactions in childhood that largely shapes us to react later in adult life.

    We have resources to learn to change unhealthy behavior in terms to how we think to more positive behavior in thinking that was previously programmed from earlier experience so in that their is free will if you wish to change your outlook on life.
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    People do everything they do to avoid pain and feel pleasure. You walk a path between these forces.
    A gross oversimplication of many motivations. Most things your brian decides is an expression of free will because there was even the perception of a choice, because your brain did the deciding.
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    Still, the buds have not grown.

    We need to resist hesitatiing, and go with the thirsty fruit taker.


    Point being: what's the dwell point right now?
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    Point being: what's the dwell point right now?
    Why don't you tell us O mighty master of Knowing.
    I've never met a man who was more intelligent then I was. Then again, I've never met one who was as ignorant as me either.
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    Sorry, but a thread has already been started on this paradox. And no offense to the OP, but this topic has already been replicated from the original another time before.

    Nonetheless, either all your emotions and choices are illusions caused by the mess of complex interactions of neurotransmitters and biochemicals in the brain ... or it's our free-willed spirit that God has given us.

    I'll take the former as my answer. But still, it's incredibly perplexing... I mean if you just look at people socializing and conversing, that everything they say isn't by their choice, one can be easily unconvinced.
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    everything they say isn't by their choice,
    I think I'm almost past asking how anyone gets to that position unless they think of freewill like they are some external observer that can manipulate things. The reality is they are not external --the therefore choice and hence freewill is the same as their brains internal prospections and process. Their brains made the choice = freewill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    everything they say isn't by their choice,
    I think I'm almost past asking how anyone gets to that position...
    It's a misunderstanding on how chemicals and various other triggers influence the Brain.

    Free will = the ability to choose your reaction to various triggers at a chemical level (the knowledge of those triggers is a forced reality but the reaction is not specified). I could pull up a section from the theory page and go into it further, but I'll simply leave it at that for fact of mere conjecture.
    I've never met a man who was more intelligent then I was. Then again, I've never met one who was as ignorant as me either.
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    I dont know if all our actions are guided by selfish motives of material pleasures. I also know that there is something known as sacrifice which seeks pleasures far more noble though it may be against the nature of the person.
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