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Thread: Never mind a tree in the woods.

  1. #1 Never mind a tree in the woods. 
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    If a 50,000 megaton cobalt bomb, airburst one mile above Central Los Angeles, would there be any noise?


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    depend on the state of the person, if he/she is insane then no, if the person in question is sane, then the answer is yes


    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Honored at your refinements, Sir.
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    Well... There would and would not be noise...

    Yes the bomb will make the sound -
    but the people who heard this sound, are propably killed
    by the explosion, thermo/pressure-wave, disease caused by radiation,
    the rising dust blocking the respiratory organs etc...

    So we would not have "eye-witnesser" (or must we say "ear-witnesser")
    to proof this statement true.

    Of course we got all kinds of satellites and other devices but they
    might be interrupt by magnetic waves so I wouldn't trust them much.
    Machina multa minax minitatur maxima muris

    Carminis Iliaci libros consumpsit asellus. O Fatum Troiae! Aut ecus aut asinus!

    Vita regit Fortuna, non sapientia!
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    Depends on the definition of noise, the sound wave is there of course regardless of the lack of a receiver.
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    The problem here is 'be'. What is existence? It's more refined than 'Die Fledermaus' in that it might be defined in different philosophies.

    Some philosophies argue that things only exist as social constructs, and that Antartica does not exist until we have been there.. In this case, existence is very relative and the primary question is more difficult to answer.

    I think the best, unified answer would be: Fnord.

    Mr U
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    things exist even when you havent been there, atoms exist even thoe we cant see them
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  9. #8  
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    That is an unproven statement, having the characteristics of an axiom.

    Please demonstrate, though I doubt you can, that the statement is true.

    I would even except a demonstration that it is probably true.
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    Zelos wrote
    things exist even when you havent been there, atoms exist even thoe we cant see them



    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    That is an unproven statement, having the characteristics of an axiom.

    Please demonstrate, though I doubt you can, that the statement is true.

    I would even except a demonstration that it is probably true.
    So with all due respect Can we ask you to prove that it is untrue :wink:
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  11. #10 gamma ray bursts 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    Sound can only propagate in an atmosphere whether it be air water methane etc. if the air burst did not complete destroy the atmosphere , then yes, there would be a large sound, to say the least! However, astronauts in the space station would see a blinding flash but hear no sound (except when a shock wave hit the space stations outer hull).

    Fifty thousand megs is a huge explosion, however , consider a small solar storm which will produce an "explosion" with energy in the trillion megaton range. A solar mass ejection is orders of magnitude larger than the biggest solar storm, amazing! Don't even think of a Nova or super nova. And yet there are things more powerful still lurking in our universe, like the gamma ray bursts emit more energy than an entire galaxy from a region smaller than a star!

    Nature has never failed to wonder me with her power , and so the ability to humble me.

    : } >
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    So with all due respect Can we ask you to prove that it is untrue :wink:
    With or without respect, your request is meaningless. I have made no claims either way. You are the one who is making a claim, therefore the burden of proof lies on you. I shall ask the same of someone who takes the contrary view also.
    This is a science forum: it seems appropriate to ask for evidence for any contentions that are made.
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    can't we say that based apon the nature of sound felled trees will make sound.

    otherwise its like saying that if light is unmeasured will it still travel at a constant rate?

    or saying that any physical law is invalid unless complete measurement of everything everywhere is measured.
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    hmm.. if you light up a candle... will the candle still burn if you close your eyes?
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  15. #14 I left out a important thing or two 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    hmmmm', I left out a important thing or two, if there are no ear drums to indicate to a nerve that would transmit a signal to a brain that can recognize compressed air... non compressed... air compressed air (i.e. "sound waves") or other medium as relate to in my first response) .....as what we call sound then the question would no sound is produced in the brain. However sound waves would be produced.

    Secondly the question about a tree falling in the woods is not a question of physical sound! it was postulated to illustrate what part a sentient observer players in the nature of reality, and that kids is a whole another scientific discipline.

    BTW If a tree falls in the woods... is classic Debate and a very good question 50000 meg airburst and all the rest.
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  16. #15 if humans were were gone, would the universe exist? 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    hmm.. if you light up a candle... will the candle still burn if you close your eyes?

    The chemical process that we call burn would occur eyes open or shut.

    A question that is a bit more profound....what if every observer (every living thing) were gone, would the universe exist?

    There are studies that indicate that if every self aware observer (humans for now) were destroyed, the entire universe would not exist! I tend to agree.

    : } >
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  17. #16  
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    so you throw away the big bang theory??

    ehh.. :? .. it was just an example.. if it happens, you'll see it if you want it.. or anyone will know, even for an instant it'll still happen..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  18. #17  
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    Light for all intrinsic reasons DOES have the same velocity! about 299 792 458 m / s , or about 186, 000 miles per sec.

    This is a basic tenet of the theory General relativity which has been proven time and time again. The speed of light has been measured and this measurement has been repeated many times.

    Now two observers in motion separated by space will not agree on the nature of time, and as one of the observers approaches the speed of light (c) very strange things happen to the observed.

    very strange indeed, yes time travel is real and it too has shown by empirical (laboratory) experiment as to be true.

    hmmm I would like to go on a time tripp.

    ; } >
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  19. #18 quarks, muons ,neutrinos, photons , OH MY! 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    so you throw away the big bang theory??


    This may go over like a smelly, vile, alien object in a punch bowl , I am an open theist Christian. I do believe (that) the temporal universe runs on "auto pilot or by "natural law" most of the time, I too believe everything is designed including the big bang!

    However, If you were speaking of the speed of light, read on.

    Light speed must have photons to be measured, and in the so called early inflationary period of the big bang ,they did not exist as we know them today.

    Yes , I could agree that there were times in the early universe (when it was smaller than your fist or not bigger than our solar system, still very small indeed) that strange things could not happen however, when the universe cooled enough for quarks, muons ,neutrinos, photons and other critters to exist as we know them today, light settled into its 186,000 mps speed limit that sadly we must adhere to today.

    ; { >

    sorry I did not have time to properly edit this, even on the third try!

    my basset hound tried to pee on my leg telling me that it was wayyyyy past time for my walk.

    "woof". (that means he will be back after his walk.... signed bogiebasset
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  20. #19  
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    [quote="Ophiolite"][quote="Die Fledermaus"]So with all due respect Can we ask you to prove that it is untrue :wink:
    Ophiolite wrote
    With or without respect, your request is meaningless.
    My request is a request it may be meaningless to you so I withdraw the respect bit.
    Ophiolite wrote
    I have made no claims either way. You are the one who is making a claim, therefore the burden of proof lies on you.
    What claim have I made? A previous statement and request yes


    Ophiolite wrote
    I shall ask the same of someone who takes the contrary view also.
    Quite right too.



    This is a science forum:
    Granted, but I was under the impression that we were on the Philosophical section???

    And generally although the forum is a scientific one there must be a lot of us who are not Scientists but just have an interest in science, and as such, questions and remarks will be posted that seem silly to those that have the specific training and knowledge, but they are asked in the quest for a better understanding.
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    I think that a more obvious questionto ask is: "would there be a universe if there was nobody to obsreve and imagine it?"
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  22. #21  
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    You seemed to have posted your last post here twice. I have deleted one of them. If there was a subtle difference between them I apologise if I deleted the wrong one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    My request is a request it may be meaningless to you so I withdraw the respect bit.
    Sorry, this didn't make sense to me, so I can't really comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    What claim have I made? A previous statement and request yes
    Quite right. I misread your earlier post as belonging to Zelos, who did make a claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    And generally although the forum is a scientific one there must be a lot of us who are not Scientists but just have an interest in science, and as such, questions and remarks will be posted that seem silly to those that have the specific training and knowledge, but they are asked in the quest for a better understanding
    Well, I agree completely, but that better understanding best emerges through the proper use of evidence.

    Philosophy is, as I understand it, no less attentive to evidence than is science. Remember that science grew out of philosophy. When I attended University the physics department was still called the Department of Natural Philosophy. Many of the ways in which evidence is assessed and ambiguities resolved within science were established by philosophers.

    I think some scientists, suspicious of philosophy, view it as undisciplined and permissive of wild ideas. I suggest the opposite is true. Consequently I think it is still reasonable, even in the philosophy section, to ask for evidence (or logical justification).
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  23. #22 Re: Never mind a tree in the woods. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Rascal Puff
    If a 50,000 megaton cobalt bomb, airburst one mile above Central Los Angeles, would there be any noise?
    Yeah - you'd hear the clapping as far away as New York! :wink:
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  24. #23  
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    There was a terrible ghastly silence.
    There was a terrible ghastly noise.
    There was a terrible ghastly silence.

    And we were nomore
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  25. #24 Re: if humans were were gone, would the universe exist? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by REV ROSWELL
    There are studies that indicate that if every self aware observer (humans for now) were destroyed, the entire universe would not exist! I tend to agree.

    : } >
    U must be joking...
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  26. #25  
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    There are studies that indicate that if every self aware observer (humans for now) were destroyed, the entire universe would not exist! I tend to agree.
    Illogical. The universe is independed of sentiel biengs
    Conclution: Probebility of Rev bieng mad: 75% Probebility of Rev had a lobotomy 25%
    Action: Shutdown Drone
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    There are studies that indicate that if every self aware observer (humans for now) were destroyed, the entire universe would not exist! I tend to agree.
    Illogical. The universe is independed of sentiel biengs
    Conclution: Probebility of Rev bieng mad: 75% Probebility of Rev had a lobotomy 25%
    Action: Shutdown Drone
    i think the borg have finally gotten to Zelos.
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  28. #27  
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    nha, rather have watched it to much
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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    Hehehe, good one. There sure would be noise, but I'm sure everyone would be dead before they heard it.

    Well... maybe not. A few hundred miles away you would probably still be able to hear it.
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  30. #29  
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    ERROR!!!!!!
    Miles is a unaccepteble unit.
    Target locked.....htmlmaster
    FIRE
    *DEAD*
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    ERROR!!!!!!
    Miles is a unaccepteble unit.
    Target locked.....htmlmaster
    FIRE
    *DEAD*
    now if a zelos fires a super sonic weapon at htmlmaster in the woods does the fact that htmlmaster will never hear it coming mean that it does not exist. ie does it still make a sound.
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  32. #31  
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    Scanning.....
    ...Scan Complete

    Mechanical waves detected
    Conclution: Sound was made
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  33. #32  
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    My answer to this question is another question,

    "If a trees falls in the middle of the woods and hits a mime does anyone care?"
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  34. #33  
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    Scans complete
    Subject: Mime
    Species: 4258 humans
    Conclution: useless organism
    Action: disposal
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    ERROR!!!!!!
    Miles is a unaccepteble unit.
    Target locked.....htmlmaster
    FIRE
    *DEAD*
    now if a zelos fires a super sonic weapon at htmlmaster in the woods does the fact that htmlmaster will never hear it coming mean that it does not exist. ie does it still make a sound.
    You better believe it baby cause Zelos is a lousy shot and missed by a mile [ha ha] a real old country mile and htmlmaster was nearly deafened by the BB. :wink:
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  36. #35  
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    ERROR!
    We dont miss by a mile. Since its a none-allowed unit. Therefor we wont miss with a mile
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    ERROR!
    We dont miss by a mile. Since its a none-allowed unit. Therefor we wont miss with a mile
    You are in wrong Xverse, Mile is legitimate, delete Zelos delete delete. 8)

    if you require proof
    Zelos wrote
    On the eights day zelos said, "Let there be darkness" and the light were never seen again.

    Result= another miss, another mile
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  38. #37  
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    Mile is a primetive and unaccepteble unit of measurement
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  39. #38  
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    if he says mile you can easily convert it to ~1.6km without any mental struggle.

    but personally i think one mile sounds a lot better than 1.6km, superficially.
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  40. #39  
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    its becuase of those illogical units that billion dollar probes was lost.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  41. #40  
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    lets say 1 mile = 1.6 kilometers. just for fun.

    if i properly convert all measurements of miles into kilometers then i come up with the same magnitude.

    i've seen billion dollar probes and million dollar rockets go up in flames over a single loose strip of material, there seems to be no room for error in these things. so unless someone didn't double check on there calculator i don't think emperial units are to blame for rockets going awry.
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  42. #41  
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    yes there is no room for errors.
    and since science use SI units mostly imperial units will cause errors
    "How far away is it?"
    "3 feet"
    in the haste the person who asked howfar think he means 3 meters. and then its the imperial untis fault. thats why its today not allowed in science under any circumstances use imperial units. that probe was lost becuase of them and i think those units arent worth even a nickle
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    yes there is no room for errors.
    Error List in Zelos' post.
    1. No capital on yes.
    2. No comma after yes.
    3. Questionable use of plural errors.
    4. No capitalisation of and.
    5. Starting a sentence with a conjunction without any stylistic justification.
    6. Sentence meaning ambiguous and unclear because of incorrect sentence structure."and since science use SI units mostly imperial units will cause errors"
    7. No period at end of sentence.
    8. No period after 3 feet.
    9. No capitalisation of in.
    10. No quotation marks around how far.
    11. No separation between how and far.
    12. Think instead of thinks.
    13. Small numbers are written out thus, three, not thus, 3. (For maximu clarity it may be written thus - three (3).)
    14. No capital on and.
    15. No capital on Imperial.
    16. Mistyping of units.
    17. No capital on that's.
    18. No apostrophe in thats.
    19. No apostrophe in it's.
    20. Faulty sentence structure. (It should read "That's why today it's not allowed......)
    21. No commas around the phrase in any circumstances.
    22. The word to omitted before use.
    23. No capital on that.
    24. Mistyping of because.
    25. No capitalisation of I.
    26. No apostrophe in arent.
    27. No period at the end of the last sentence.

    Zelos, you have produced twenty seven (27) errors in a post of seventy seven (77) words.
    Correct use of of units is important in science. Engineering is not science. Engineering has not, as far as I know, made a complete transition to Imperial units.
    Clear communication is also important. The number of errors you routinely generate make understanding your posts challenging, and occasionally impossible.
    Do you believe it is wise to demand use of correct units, to address the mathematical side of science, while you ignore the equally important need for clarity in writing?

    (As an aside, one can make a perfectly sound case for the notion of the inch, the foot and the mile as fundamental measures.)

    You will be delighted to know this will be my last post on the subject of your writing. If you don't give a flying aardvark about how you come across, I guess I won't either.
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  44. #43  
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    let me see throu that list
    No capital, wow didnt know i was writing a report. thought this was a forum
    well the list is to long
    i dont mean to be rude, but Ophiolite do you really dont have anything more to do than looking throu a post on the internet looking for all the erros and even counting the words?

    Do you believe it is wise to demand use of correct units, to address the mathematical side of science, while you ignore the equally important need for clarity in writing?
    its not like my error here cost billion of dollars. i agree it is important on good writing. but not on forums and chats on the net.

    The number of errors you routinely generate make understanding your posts challenging, and occasionally impossible.
    if you find anything in my previus post challanging i am deeply disturbed
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    its not like my error here cost billion of dollars. i agree it is important on good writing. but not on forums and chats on the net.
    Then why the blue blazes are you harping on about people using SI units. Give it a break Zelos. For the last godamn time your sloppy writing is pain in the proverbial ass. You wish to dole out excuses such as 'this is only a forum'. Fine. Be my guest. Continue to indulge your wooly thinking, your fuzzy writing, and your nitpicking of other posters. I shall not be disturbing you on any of these points again. Wallow away.
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  46. #45  
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    Not only have I seen the quote "Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level then beat you with experience" on this forum - I have also seen it demonstrated admirably.
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  47. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    "3 feet"
    in the haste the person who asked howfar think he means 3 meters. and then its the imperial untis fault.
    no then it is the persons fault, human error.

    SI units are the more convienient units to use but imperial units still have corresponding SI values and as such if you do it RIGHT you will get the same distance.
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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billco
    Not only have I seen the quote "Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level then beat you with experience" on this forum - I have also seen it demonstrated admirably.
    Science unapplied is not science, but mere speculation.
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  49. #48  
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    no then it is the persons fault, human error.

    SI units are the more convienient units to use but imperial units still have corresponding SI values and as such if you do it RIGHT you will get the same distance.
    that error wouldnt happen if they had the same units. so then it is the eunits fault, since it exists
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    no then it is the persons fault, human error.

    SI units are the more convienient units to use but imperial units still have corresponding SI values and as such if you do it RIGHT you will get the same distance.
    that error wouldnt happen if they had the same units. so then it is the eunits fault, since it exists
    thats about as accurate as saying all units are at fault for existing.
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  51. #50  
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    if i kill all americans and nobody where to see it. did i kill them?
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  52. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    if i kill all americans and nobody where to see it. did i kill them?
    Yes, because theyd realize that they then dont have anyone to blame :wink:
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  53. #52  
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    it was a natural cause they died by
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  54. #53 When tree falls in the woods, and a nuke airburst: Reprise. 
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    This thread begins with the question:
    "If a 50,000 megaton cobalt bomb airburst occurred one mile above central Los Angeles, would there be any noise?"

    Many forms of response, here, have accompanied that question.
    It is of course intended as a parody of the better known question:

    "If a tree falls in the woods, and there's no one there to hear it, would there be any noise?"

    A proper response depends on the interpretation of the word noise, and whether or not it occurs, whether or not there is anyone near enough to the event, to 'hear' it.

    Responses have ranged from agreements to disagreements about whether or not an event or condition occurs or prevails; depending on whether or not there is some sort of reception and/or measurement by a sentient consciousness.

    The tree falling in the woods proves the existence of a surrounding atmosphere. The surrounding atmosphere conducts rarfications and percussions (which are called 'noise', when someone is there to hear it), whether or not there is anyone there to hear, measure or otherwise observe the event and the ensuing, consequential vibration of the conducting atmosphere.

    An operative word here is 'event' - which occurs (rarifications and percussions of the atmosphere, for example, occur), whether or not there is any sentient being to experience, witness or otherwise measure it.

    To suggest that there wouldn't be an existential universe without sentient consciousness to witness, measure and experience it, seems comparable to the geocentric theory, where the universe is perceived as revolving around the earth.

    Existential reality at large does not depend on whether or not there is any sentient consciousness to perceive it. The stars and sun, for example, do not care a whit, whether there is anyone alive on earth to perceive them. The round earth was not transformed to flatness or a square simply because the majority of people inhabiting the round earth, insisted that it was square and/or flat. Fortunately, the existence and dynamics of universal forces and their origins is ostensibly, altogether independent of whether they are observed, measured or otherwise experienced by any sentient witness.

    Due to the observations above, the dog eared question of whether or not there is any noise when a tree falls in the woods, is not the challenging - conversation starting and stopping - question it is so frequently held out to be.

    The metaphor of the nuclear weapon burst above Los Angeles was introduced to accent the well worn controversy about whether or not there'd be any noise if a tree falls in the woods (and there's no one to hear it)...

    It is the station of this post, that the correct answer is a variant, determined by the asker's definition of 'noise'. The event, and the consequential rarifications and percussions of the conducting atmosphere occur whether there's any sentient being to hear it as 'noise', or otherwise experience or measure it, or not.

    That is to say, there's apparently no 'noise', when there's no sentient being to hear it; whereas, there is an event, producing rareifications and percussions of the atmosphere (sound vibrations, even though unheard), whether there's anyone there to hear it or not.

    The various discourses that have emerged in the consideration of this issue are certainly interesting. Of course it is still up to the reader to draw her or his own conclusions, with the option of sharing them here. Thank you for reading - and responding to - this missive.
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  55. #54 Re: When tree falls in the woods, and a nuke airburst: Repri 
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Rascal Puff
    To suggest that there wouldn't be an existential universe without sentient consciousness to witness, measure and experience it, seems comparable to the geocentric theory, where the universe is perceived as revolving around the earth.
    Of course you can compare them. You can also contrast them. That there are aspects of the two that may be compared is true, this does not mean they are identical. Your position here is to imply such an identity.
    This is either a schoolboy debating trick, or you actually think they are the same. Not so.
    Quote Originally Posted by That Rascal Puff
    Existential reality at large does not depend on whether or not there is any sentient consciousness to perceive it. The stars and sun, for example, do not care a whit, whether there is anyone alive on earth to perceive them.
    Making broad, axiomatic statements of this sort does not ensure their validity. You have offered no evidence for this position. It rather seems that in your desire to devalue the 'tree falling in the woods' question you have revealed that you did not understand it in the first place.
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  56. #55 If a tree falls in the woods, continued: 
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    Until further notice, I have no further commentary on this self evident issue. Everyone is entitled to their own philosophical, scientifically founded opinion (Ph.D = Dr. of Philosophy). Subjective innuendo, bear baiting, incipient name-calling; conclusion inferred implications - be they my own, or those of anyone else - aside.
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