Thread: pedronaut's general questions part 1

1. Is it ok to kill animals for food even though one could manage with vegtables?

2. Is it ok to indirectly kill humans, that is by, for example, not giving charity when you know/believe it would save lives.

1. I believe so. We've evolved to be omnivorous and there are lot's of health benefits from eating meat (iron, natural oils) and people who are strict vegan or vegetarian often require mineral supplements to maintain a good state of health, this is indicative of our omnivorous evolution (chimps also eat meat and vegetables). The majority of meat eaters (myself included) have never killed a chicken, cow or pig, or observed how it's done in the food industry; I imagine the process would sicken many to the point of turning vegetarian. On the other hand, there's nothing quite as (rather primitively) satisfying as fishing for game fish and eating your catch.

2. I think this should be re-worded, not giving charity doesn't mean you're killing humans, it means you're not saving humans. We're hard-wired to protect and provide for our own genes (kids and siblings), it's unsurprising that we put ourselves and our families first before giving to charity. Nevertheless, and this is something I too am guilty of, we certainly don't give as generously as we could.

1) - I go off the question of suffering, not life/death. Death happens anyway, but many cows would never have been raised, or fed, if they weren't destined to be meat. I think it's immoral to buy from meat providers who subject the cows to inhumane conditions during their lifetimes, however.

2) - Not doing something should never be a crime unless you've agreed to do it as part of a mutually beneficial arrangement. Why? Because you're still leaving the world as good as you found it. Had you never been born, that poor guy would have starved anyway. It's got to fall under the category of "neutral". It's not praiseworthy, but it's also not evil.

Thanks for your responses.
I think its evil.
I consign myself to this.
We literally walk over starving helpless people on our way to the aisles of luuxury goods and services we don't need.
We trample over human meat, exhuasting its last breath knowing/believing we have the power to save it.
We can't claim ignorance anymore, there are cameras all over the world communicating the plight of strangers.
I consign myself to evil. Fuck it. Humans are only animals, an organism etc.

Overly dramatic imo, but in essence true (- the evil part, it's the way we are we can't help ourselves)

Edit: - = minus

Yeah in hindsight i was being a bit dramatic.
It's an idea that always interested me.

Really i use it as a reason to illegitimatise people with high morals.
I excuse my own selfishness by accepting that i am an amoral kind of aethiest.

I'm just speaking in general but life takes a form, the lifeforms consume other lifeforms, those that avoid being eaten more than the others are going to be a life favourite until something better comes along. So I have no problem eating animal or vegetable. I'd have a problem if I was a sought after delicacy by a hungry life form I couldn't avoid on a regular basis.

If we have the means to save lives then we must. Watching those people in Somalia struggling to stay alive may seem like nature taking its course but we have the power to control it. So yes I am in a small way somewhat responsible for any deaths I could have helped prevent. I personally don't feel good doing nothing.

Originally Posted by pedronaut

I excuse my own selfishness by accepting that i am an amoral kind of aethiest.

That perty much describes me also.!!!

Ethics of killing animals for meat?

Its all relative. Relative to the alternative.
From the animal viewpoint, what is the alternative. Death.
No farmer is going to raise all those cows, goats, sheep etc if he cannot sell them. So he will kill them and do something more profitable with his land.

From the viewpoint of a cow, the alternatives are exploitation by humans or extinction. Which do you think is more ethical?

Originally Posted by skeptic

Ethics of killing animals for meat?

Its all relative. Relative to the alternative.
From the animal viewpoint, what is the alternative. Death.
No farmer is going to raise all those cows, goats, sheep etc if he cannot sell them. So he will kill them and do something more profitable with his land.

From the viewpoint of a cow, the alternatives are exploitation by humans or extinction. Which do you think is more ethical?

The animal kingdom is rough. Watch a cat play with a bird that is still alive.

Originally Posted by skeptic

Ethics of killing animals for meat?

From the viewpoint of a cow, the alternatives are exploitation by humans or extinction. Which do you think is more ethical?

Or put this way... woud it be mor ethical to fatten up humans an eat 'em or jus let 'em go extinct.???

i'd take issue with your statement that not giving to charity kills people

especially considering that there's at least 3 unsavoury things about the charity industry :
(1) too much money is absorbed in running charities and not enough ends up with the intended recipients
(2) charity creates a state of dependency, where the never-ending provision of aids kills off activities that could make the people self-sustaining
(3) i dislike the emotional blackmail implied in the sentence "it's for charity" as if that ends all need for any further explanation

most of the time when there's a humanitarian crisis, it's not just the natural events such as drought that play a role, but more often than not the crucial factor is war, civil unrest or a self-serving political elite who siphons off all the riches for their own benefit