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Thread: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby?

  1. #1 Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    Is bald a hair color? Is "not stamp collecting" a hobby?

    Is not playing baseball a sport?
    Is "not being an auto mechanic" a trade or vocation?

    Is a non-smoker addicted to not smoking?

    If no, then why is "atheism" so often treated like a religion?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Bachelors Degree x(x-y)'s Avatar
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    It's just that many persistent theists think that atheism is a belief system- which, of course, it isn't.

    Us atheists know that atheism isn't a religion, so don't worry!


    "Nature doesn't care what we call it, she just does it anyway" - R. Feynman
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  4. #3  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
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    Because it’s easier to attack something if you first define it as something that is vulnerable to attack rather than what it really is. It’s a version of the strawman fallacy.
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  5. #4  
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    Because the 'atheist' checkbox is under the Religion sub-heading on all the forms we fill in.

    Tongue only slightly in cheek.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

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  6. #5  
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    Buddhism, while claiming to be a religion is generally atheistic.
    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhis...fs/atheism.htm
    http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbu...dhaatheism.htm

    For some, blind faith in deity is a consideration in their decision process.
    For myself, the reasoned guess that there is no anthropic deity informs my own decision process.

    But I can see where certain people who happen to be atheistic might like to gather on a particular day of the week and drink beer or somesuch.
    Why not get a taxbreak in the deal?

    The word "Atheism" comes from the Greek and literally means; without philosophy of deity.
    So, semantically, atheism can't be considered a religion, but if people want to call it such, well, it's no real skin off my nose.
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
    -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.-
    Cat's Cradle.
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  7. #6  
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    Clearly everybody believes something. You can be agnostic with respect to the afterlife, but nobody can seriously entertain the belief that their life is not going to end at all.

    So, do you believe that :

    1) - There is an after life?

    2) - There is no afterlife, and your whole existence ends at death?

    3) - You are undecided because you don't have enough information?

    #1 is the category all religions fall into. Even if you're just some kind of weird mystic or spiritualist.

    #2 is the atheist view.

    #3 is the agnostic view.


    Everyone's view falls into one of those three categories.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  8. #7  
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    Because they keep coming onto the scientific study of religion forum and starting threads to proselytize and promote their world view, and to reinforce their beliefs with other like-minded people.

    Not stamp collecting is not a hobby, as long as you just do not collect stamps, and shut up about it.
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  9. #8  
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    I don't believe in dowsing rod. My not believing is not a hobby. But I will protest if someone try to state that successful dowsing is a fact.
    If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism
    -Albert Einstein
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  10. #9  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Because they keep coming onto the scientific study of religion forum and starting threads to proselytize and promote their world view, and to reinforce their beliefs with other like-minded people.

    Not stamp collecting is not a hobby, as long as you just do not collect stamps, and shut up about it.
    Or, some of us are interested in the sociology, psychology, and interpersonal dynamics of the situation, and so asked others what their take was on the issue.

    It was a valid and legitimate question, Harold. Sorry it got your panties in a wad.
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  11. #10 Re: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Is bald a hair color? Is "not stamp collecting" a hobby?

    Is not playing baseball a sport?
    Is "not being an auto mechanic" a trade or vocation?

    Is a non-smoker addicted to not smoking?

    If no, then why is "atheism" so often treated like a religion?
    I refuse to use the term atheism because it has become a misnomer as you described, and simply use the term secular.
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  12. #11 Re: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmounes
    I refuse to use the term atheism because it has become a misnomer as you described, and simply use the term secular.
    I touched on this here a while back: http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...=236285#236285
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  13. #12  
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    dieting is something you don't do. when you don't eat, you're dieting. but i guess technically dieting is eating less.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  14. #13 Re: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Is bald a hair color? Is "not stamp collecting" a hobby?

    Is not playing baseball a sport?
    Is "not being an auto mechanic" a trade or vocation?

    Is a non-smoker addicted to not smoking?

    If no, then why is "atheism" so often treated like a religion?
    My knowledge of maths is (to put it kindly) pretty basic, but I think I am still able to get some understanding of the wonders of the universe as revealed by science.
    These insights mean far more to me than anything I got from religion.
    Nowadays, though, I sometimes pass the time by not composing "militant atheist" posts.
    Lastly about the church-in this case the Christian (Roman Catholic) Church-any institution which encouraged, and supported, the work of composers such as Giovanni Perluigi da Palestrina must deserve some praise!
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  15. #14 Re: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday
    Nowadays, though, I sometimes pass the time by not composing "militant atheist" posts.
    I'm not sure of your intention with these words, nor how they apply here. Will you elaborate?
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  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore MiguelSR1's Avatar
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    Perhaps because atheism presents such strong counter balances against religion. Such strong force that many call it a religion just like the other strong force which is religion.
    Imagination is key to the logic of thought, a greatest eternal truth.

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  17. #16 Re: Is "Not Stamp Collecting" a Hobby? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday
    Nowadays, though, I sometimes pass the time by not composing "militant atheist" posts.
    I'm not sure of your intention with these words, nor how they apply here. Will you elaborate?
    Maybe my post was not directly relevant to this thread and perhaps I am guilty of reading some threads too quickly. We all have other things to do, after all, so if I have got your views, on religion, wrong I do apologise.
    I said before, on another thread, that I was happy to see an attack on anyone who tried to use their religious beliefs to deny the validity of well-established scientific theories. It seems to me, however, that you want to attack individuals simply because they believe in religion. Of course you have a perfect right to do that, but I find that view annoying because I do not believe conflict between science and religion is necessary or inevitable.
    Also you appear to accept that a belief in God is totally absurd. I would call myself a strong atheist but I do believe there were solid reasons why people, living in the past, might believe, in a supernatural entity, as they tried to make sense of their existence. Even today, I can understand why some are convinced that the universe was formed, at the very "beginning", by some form of intelligence we call God.
    Put it this way-if I stated there were living creatures floating around in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, and went on to describe their make-up and then produce a 3D model of these animals, an astronomer, who knew a little bit about statistics, would, quite rightly, offer massive odds against my ideas being correct.
    You appear to put religious beliefs on a par with that example. It is that attitude and the "militant atheist" posts of others that I object to.
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  18. #17  
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    I suspected that was your stance, and do appreciate you taking a moment to come back and clarify. I take some issue with the term "militant." I treat religious claims the same as I would people who think that unicorns exist, and it's because their claims rest on exactly equal footing... make believe.

    That's not militant. That's consistent. I'm avoiding being hypocritical, avoiding the double standard, and not allowing my responses to be altered due to special pleading just because a large segment of the population accepts this woo.

    Militant, though? No. Sorry, but no. I'm not out with RPGs killing believers. I'm not burning churches or firing on unarmed theists. FFS... You're stretching the meaning of the term militant so much that it loses its utility if you apply it to people like myself who merely refuse to show deference where none is deserved or earned.

    ----------------
    AC Greyling laid this out recently in an interview better than I can, where he suggested that being a "militant atheist" is like "sleeping furiously":


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...ism-philosophy
    It's only in the past decade that these three strands of thought have developed into a public campaign against faith – but it wasn't the atheists, according to Grayling, who provoked the confrontation. "The reason why it's become a big issue is that religions have turned the volume up, because they're on the back foot. The hold of religion is weakening, definitely, and diminishing in numbers. The reason why there's such a furore about it is that the cornered animal, the loser, starts making a big noise."

    Even if this is true, however, the atheist movement has been accused of shooting itself in the foot by adopting a tone so militant as to alienate potential supporters, and fortify the religious lobby. I ask Grayling if he thinks there is any truth in the charge, and he listens patiently and politely to the question, but then dismisses it with a shake of the head.

    "Well, firstly, I think the charges of militancy and fundamentalism of course come from our opponents, the theists. My rejoinder is to say when the boot was on their foot they burned us at the stake. All we're doing is speaking very frankly and bluntly and they don't like it," he laughs. "So we speak frankly and bluntly, and the respect agenda is now gone, they can no longer float behind the diaphanous veil – 'Ooh, I have faith so you mustn't offend me'. So they don't like the blunt talking. But we're not burning them at the stake. They've got to remember that when it was the other way around it was a much more serious matter.

    "And besides, really," he adds with a withering little laugh, "how can you be a militant atheist? How can you be militant non-stamp collector? This is really what it comes down to. You just don't collect stamps. So how can you be a fundamentalist non-stamp collector? It's like sleeping furiously. It's just wrong."


    and here...

    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/6...h-a-c-grayling
    ‘Militant’ is a term used by religious people who wish that they could continue to enjoy the status and privileges which the now-lost ‘respect agenda’ (‘I think weird thoughts so respect me, I am a man of faith’) once protected for them. My friends Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens do not burn people at the stake for holding opposite views, but criticize them by speaking frankly and bluntly; and I have done the same in other places. There are three areas of debate: metaphysics (does the universe contain supernatural agencies? Answer: No; learn some science) secularism (what is the place of religion in the public square? Answer: it has every right to have its say, but no greater right than anyone else – yet for historical reasons it has a massively over-amplified voice there) and ethics (do you need a ubiquitous invisible policeman watching everyone for people to be good? Answer: No.

    If you really need to label me, perhaps you can call me a candid advocate of the non-belief position instead of calling me militant?
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by x(x-y)
    It's just that many persistent theists think that atheism is a belief system- which, of course, it isn't.

    Us atheists know that atheism isn't a religion, so don't worry!
    Theists look upon atheism as a sort of 'religion' because a lot of atheists have strong beliefs on being atheist and address the topic of religion with vigor, more than they would not believing in ghosts for example and theists relating to that feeling assume it is the same sort of belief, a non-belief therefore in a theists eyes is a belief, which then sort of translates as a religion. (My old way of looking at atheism before becoming atheist, to which I can now see as an atheist as now I am agnostic).
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime
    My old way of looking at atheism before becoming atheist, to which I can now see as an atheist as now I am agnostic.
    One can be both agnostic and atheist or agnostic and theist. Skinwalker has written rather well on the topic recently over here:



    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...r=asc&start=45

    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    I'm an agnostic-atheist.

    The terms are not mutually exclusive. One describes a position of knowledge; the other is a label that references an aspect of my worldview. One is an adjective, the other a noun.

    I live my life without the belief in gods. I do not believe there are any supernatural deities that need to be answered to, appeased, or pleased in this universe -I see no good evidence to think otherwise. Therefore, I'm an atheist (without god).

    I also admit that I cannot know, with all certainty that my position on supernatural deities is true. It almost certainly is, given the lack of good reason to believe in them, but I've not examined all corners of the universe, or tested the entire universe. Nor have I the ability to do so. I, therefore, take an agnostic (without knowledge) stand that allows for a possibility that I'm wrong.

    <...>

    I know, without a doubt, that I'm an atheist. But my agnosticism isn't about my knowledge of my own worldview. It's about my knowledge of the existence of a god. To that knowledge, I remain agnostic.

    I'm an agnostic-atheist.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    the popular usage of the term "agnostic" refers to the position that a truth claim about something is inherently unknowable or untestable. This is the case with many of the claims of religions and other superstitions. We can test them to a certain degree, the more specific the claims, the more they seem to lend themselves to testing. But when you get down to very general and "feel-good" claims like that of "all-knowing" and "all-powerful" deities, we simply reach a point where testing isn't possible. Mostly due to the obstacles of information storage limitations, size, scope and accessibility of the cosmos to our senses, etc.

    Therefore, the only logical and honest stance one can take with regard to the existence of a deity in the universe/cosmos is that of agnosticism. It's simply unknowable.

    Yet, that same person can be an atheist, living their life with a complete lack of any god-belief. Just because you recognize that the universe is currently untestable for the claim, doesn't mean you find good reason to accept the claim. Indeed, quite the opposite must be true for the honest and rational mind.

    Therefore, I am an agnostic-atheist. I have have no god-belief (and I'm almost certain that no gods exist), but I recognize the limitation in my ability to know for sure.
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