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Thread: Spiritualsts and materialists

  1. #1 Spiritualsts and materialists 
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    Spiritualists and materialists

    I still do not know what can be done to eliminate endless conflicts between materialists and spiritualists. But comments collected at several websites prompted me to compose a short on-line paper at:

    http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/theo_sci.html

    It can probably be used to initiate an interesting discussion here. Please share this link with those who might be interested.

    Ludwik Kowalski
    Professor Emeritus
    Montclair State University, USA


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  3. #2  
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    I couldn't get past the first 4 words. Mathematics is like theology... The statement needs qualifying more than just; it starts with axioms (self-evident truths) and uses logical derivation to justify consecutive claims.

    What self-evident truths is theology built upon - and which theology are we talking about?


    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    I couldn't get past the first 4 words. Mathematics is like theology... The statement needs qualifying more than just; it starts with axioms (self-evident truths) and uses logical derivation to justify consecutive claims.

    What self-evident truths is theology built upon - and which theology are we talking about?
    OK, the added "self evident" can be replaced by "initially accepted." In fact, I will do this, to avoid the unnecessary distraction. Thank you for the comment.

    Ludwik
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil
    OK, the added "self evident" can be replaced by "initially accepted."
    Fair enough. I do not accept such 'truths' to be the same as mathematical truths, but i will suspend belief for a while.

    This does not interfere with peaceful coexistence and mutual respect between mathematicians and scientists.
    Not sure 'peaceful' is the word but i take your point.

    No one benefits from the endless “we know better” conflicts.
    Many people have benefited from the scientific revolution.

    Are we humans able to end the undesirable confrontations?
    I am unconvinced this particular conflict in undesirable, for either side. Adversarial environments make for strong arguments.

    we humans live in two different worlds, material and spiritual.
    There's no ghost in the machine. Is this one of those 'truths' we must provisional accept to conclude its truth?

    I would appreciate it if you would clarify exactly what is meant by spiritual. For example, does spiritual necessarily have to invoke theism?

    3) Initial Statements

    You never adequately explain why science cannot verify theological claims. The analogy to maths is wanting for the above given reasons.

    4) Subsequently selected comments

    Lacks structure, not sure what you're trying to say.

    I would agree scientists get most pissed when theists make assertions of the physical world based on faith and/or scripture. I would accept, though disagree with, a definition of god completely outside of physical existence so long as no claims about that god are made what-so-ever. I am not sure most theists would be happy with this compromise.


    I like the debating style of section 3, reminds me of philosophy books.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

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  6. #5  
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    I wish I knew how to answer. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will answer some of your questions.

    Ludwik
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil
    I wish I knew how to answer.
    So do i.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

    Fancy a game of chess?
    http://www.itsyourturn.com/
    Challenge me, Delphi, and join the Pythian games.
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  8. #7  
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    Ludwik Kowalski dude your famous!
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