Notices
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Death; virtue or vice?

  1. #1 Death; virtue or vice? 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    24
    Since the beginning of Humanity, the concept of death has been present. A quite unpleasant concept one. The idea of the nothingness. The whole reason for there to be an afterlife, because the idea of nothing doesn't give a nice feeling.

    But what if the whole concept is wrong, if we look at ourselves, us organisms you could say that we're ever changing beings. Every second that has past cannot be reclaimed. But with the concept that every situation is unique. Therefore something that can never happen again, as it is unique.

    With that concept in mind can't we say that with every second that has passed we become new beings (as the mind & body are just mechanism designed to react to the environment around us) as we can never return to our old selves, as they only exist in the past. That can only bring us to the concept that our minds/spirits are being wiped out by the sands time of time. Essentially the person we think about when we think about ourselves, has existed in a previous life time and has already passed on.

    What I'm trying to say is; we must not fear death, as we have already experienced it. We are merely shells containing the memories of our previous actions.


    I don't expect anyone to believe my words, no, I hope they won't, as I believe this to be a quite dangerous concept about our state of mind. Nonetheless, it could bring salvation to those who fear death.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    So, the idea is that we are locked into the present, and the past "presents" and previous "nows" have all resulted in some sort of death of self anyway... Each moment, we become new... highly overlapping with the self which existed in the previous moment, but a new self with new components, and hence different in the current moment. You extend this logic to suggest that since we are dying each moment, that final death should not be something feared. We will have experienced it countless times already?

    Is that a fair representation of the OP?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    So, the idea is that we are locked into the present, and the past "presents" and previous "nows" have all resulted in some sort of death of self anyway... Each moment, we become new... highly overlapping with the self which existed in the previous moment, but a new self with new components, and hence different in the current moment. You extend this logic to suggest that since we are dying each moment, that final death should not be something feared. We will have experienced it countless times already?

    Is that a fair representation of the OP?
    Yes, quite a fair representation.
    The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is inefficiency. Eugene McCarthy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    Cool, but then there still remains one key difference. That final death is not followed by a new self... There is no "another me," and there are no more "present moments" or "nows" in which we exist after that one death... So, perhaps the fear people have is not of death itself, but of the lack of new nows and what that ultimately means.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Cool, but then there still remains one key difference. That final death is not followed by a new self... There is no "another me," and there are no more "present moments" or "nows" in which we exist after that one death... So, perhaps the fear people have is not of death itself, but of the lack of new nows and what that ultimately means.
    Bravo, yes I was aware of this. Although I linked them to memories.
    But if the thing was that every time you change you become a new person you could say that one only has to fear death on the time of dieing, as nobody knows when one's time of dieing is, he or she should not worry about it. If that would be the case then one should not fear death, because he/she will not experience it. And if one still fears death, the best thing to tell himself would then be.. "the story is over, time for bed" (as most of us are not afraid of falling asleep, even though the possibility is there of never waking up again)


    The reason why I think this ideology would be a dangerous one, is because, if people live their life by the moment they do not live so they have a better future. They become "sinners", they will not care about society only about having fun. This is obviously bad because having fun is essentially nothing more then the brain getting knocked up with hormones and chemicals.. And we know how to do that.

    We could only get rid of this threat if we upgrade this ideology to the point that people have to care what happens to the "personalities" that lie on the person's pad. This is the same as getting people to care what happens to others, being more part of the group. I don't think this will happen in the society we live in now, which is tormented by individualism. Which is of course societies biggest threat.
    The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is inefficiency. Eugene McCarthy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    Interesting. It's also rather possible that it's more about the fear of the unknown. Regardless, there are very good evolutionary reasons for a fear of death. Those organisms which did not try to avoid (or fear or feel anxious about) death tended to engage in behaviors which were more likely to lead to death, and hence they selected themselves out of the gene pool. Whereas those animals which did exhibit a healthy fear of death were more likely to avoid behaviors which led to it, and hence probably were better at survival and hence reproduced more often.

    In short, regardless of what is being feared or why it's something we should not fear, there is very good reason in place for that fear to exist.

    I'm not generally afraid of death, myself. When it happens, I won't be around to respond to it, so I may as well stop worrying and enjoy life. I'm also not a religious guy, so I don't spend a lot of time fretting about whether I'll go to hell or heaven since I believe in neither. I wonder if that plays a role... Hmm...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    482
    Buddhists hold a very similar perspective in their impermanence doctrine - except that death is followed by reincarnation (though they don't believe in a soul - never could understand that).

    Tibetan Buddhists spend a lot of their religious practice preparing for death so it isn't a fearful experience (which would taint their rebirth). But fear of death isn't easily overcome, even with such training.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

    Fancy a game of chess?
    http://www.itsyourturn.com/
    Challenge me, Delphi, and join the Pythian games.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    Buddhists hold a very similar perspective in their impermanence doctrine - except that death is followed by reincarnation (though they don't believe in a soul - never could understand that).

    Tibetan Buddhists spend a lot of their religious practice preparing for death so it isn't a fearful experience (which would taint their rebirth). But fear of death isn't easily overcome, even with such training.
    When reading that, the only thing that comes to mind is that the whole preparing for death thing is precisely what the fear of death is all about. They're not less afraid of death (total nothingness) they just don't believe in it. Like most religions.
    The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is inefficiency. Eugene McCarthy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinholt
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    Buddhists hold a very similar perspective in their impermanence doctrine - except that death is followed by reincarnation (though they don't believe in a soul - never could understand that).

    Tibetan Buddhists spend a lot of their religious practice preparing for death so it isn't a fearful experience (which would taint their rebirth). But fear of death isn't easily overcome, even with such training.
    When reading that, the only thing that comes to mind is that the whole preparing for death thing is precisely what the fear of death is all about. They're not less afraid of death (total nothingness) they just don't believe in it. Like most religions.
    I Dunno. I've been with a lot of people as and when they died and fear was always there, regardless of their religion. Always makes me wonder if people actually really believe in this professed afterlife.

    The thing with palliative research is it's still built on anecdotes such as this as it's a notoriously difficult field to study.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

    Fancy a game of chess?
    http://www.itsyourturn.com/
    Challenge me, Delphi, and join the Pythian games.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •