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Thread: I have found the solution to make poverty history

  1. #1 I have found the solution to make poverty history 
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    That's very simple. I am not looking for any recognition or patent. The poor countries are those affected by too hot weather. Too hot weather means too harsh conditions and no water. Harsh conditions and lack of water means poverty. So the solution is to cool down the hot areas with giant space mirrors. This will bring to them the same amount of water and richness you see in the western world. Yes, giant space mirrors is the solution, what are they waiting for??


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    Are you seriously suggesting that we put giant space mirrors into orbit, precisely calculate the necessary orbital conditions needed to reflect the right amount of sun from the aforementioned areas, spend the invariable shit-ton of money required to enact said plan, all to make these countries "cooler"? at what cost to the planet? Have you even remotely thought this idea out, in practicality and relative consequence to the rest of the planet?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician


    Are you seriously suggesting that we put giant space mirrors into orbit, precisely calculate the necessary orbital conditions needed to reflect the right amount of sun from the aforementioned areas, spend the invariable shit-ton of money required to enact said plan, all to make these countries "cooler"? at what cost to the planet? Have you even remotely thought this idea out, in practicality and relative consequence to the rest of the planet?

    I leave the job to the experts, but I don't see any side effects coming up with giant mirrors, only positive effects. I know there are other ways to make poverty history (good politics, free condoms like free newspapers). But in the long term harsh weather conditions will always be a pain in the neck, so the quickest way to make poverty history I think it's in these space mirrors.
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    there are in fact negative consequences. by cooling down the area what you're actually doing is eliminating solar radiation. that is what plants use (well, about 1% of it, life isn't exactly effecient) to grow. by putting these mirrors in orbit you'll darken the place a bit and cool it down to make people a bit more comfy but you will absolutely destroy the ecosystem.

    the primary productivity of the region will fall and they will loose the ability to produce large amounts of biomass which most poor countries grow to eat and sell.

    in fact the only true solution to poverty is to provide more production capacity and stronger markets for those products. the markets would have to be taken from areas with lower poverty rates because that's where the markets are. the fixed amount of wealth which we can drain from this planet is limited, and we're heading towards that carrying capacity. space mirrors simply aren't an option.

    and, assuming you were right it would in fact cost between millions and billions. who's going to pay for it? banks won't loan a poor country that they can't be sure will be able to pay it back. rich countries aren't going to do it because they would see the social change that i outlined above would take place... and history has shown them to be good for their population in one respect: they're greedy enough not to give away their taxable income.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    you will absolutely destroy the ecosystem.
    You are just going to change the ecosystem, not destroy it. We have the knowlegde to calculate the outcome, the technology is there. You might fing spruce trees and green grasses everywhere in the world, why are you being so pessimistic?
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    Because your idea is short sighted. You're missing the proverbial forest for the proverbial trees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    you will absolutely destroy the ecosystem.
    You are just going to change the ecosystem, not destroy it. We have the knowlegde to calculate the outcome, the technology is there. You might fing spruce trees and green grasses everywhere in the world, why are you being so pessimistic?
    yes we can calculate the outcome. and that's why i was able to predict that it would destroy the ecosystem. a brief study of ecology will tell you that by reducing solar input you reduce the primary producer's biomass. this will lead to a food shortage for secondary trophic level creatures, and cause a population crash(the existing secondary trophic level's population will eat up the biomass faster than it can reproduce and faster than its own population can starve to cause less demand). this causes the tertiary trophic level to fail in the same manner. and if there is a fourth, it happens again.

    the end result is a population crash of all parts of the food web unless there is a significant intervention by man. such an intervention would probably involve killing off some of the secondary and tertiary organisms. which are largely the livestock for humanity. and in order to truely balance the food chain you have to kill off the consumers of the secondary and tertiary organisms(the poor).

    that is the worst case scenario. the best case scenario is that the tertiary levels be further decimated so that the people of the affected areas can consume at the tertiary level in their place.

    and then we've got a cooler and more comfortable environment for humans, which can no longer enjoy the pleasure of eating the foods they once could. and where is the benefit?
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    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    you will absolutely destroy the ecosystem.
    You are just going to change the ecosystem, not destroy it. We have the knowlegde to calculate the outcome, the technology is there. You might fing spruce trees and green grasses everywhere in the world, why are you being so pessimistic?
    yes we can calculate the outcome. and that's why i was able to predict that it would destroy the ecosystem. a brief study of ecology will tell you that by reducing solar input you reduce the primary producer's biomass. this will lead to a food shortage for secondary trophic level creatures, and cause a population crash(the existing secondary trophic level's population will eat up the biomass faster than it can reproduce and faster than its own population can starve to cause less demand). this causes the tertiary trophic level to fail in the same manner. and if there is a fourth, it happens again.

    the end result is a population crash of all parts of the food web unless there is a significant intervention by man. such an intervention would probably involve killing off some of the secondary and tertiary organisms. which are largely the livestock for humanity. and in order to truely balance the food chain you have to kill off the consumers of the secondary and tertiary organisms(the poor).

    that is the worst case scenario. the best case scenario is that the tertiary levels be further decimated so that the people of the affected areas can consume at the tertiary level in their place.

    and then we've got a cooler and more comfortable environment for humans, which can no longer enjoy the pleasure of eating the foods they once could. and where is the benefit?
    and also you have a permanent reduction in sustainable human population as a consequence. If the people don't comply, the regions will remain in poverty and worse, have less food than when they started.

    myuncle, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the most basic concepts of ecology.
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    I am sure everything will be fine, some animals and plants will not survive and be replaced, but that's inevitable, you can't have everything, you have to give up something. We won't see any more crocs and mosquitos, but we will see polar bears in the Sahara, hehe.
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    explain where your research came from that suggests that the crocodile and mosquito population would completely die out from a slight decrease in solar energy? and how polar bears could migrate from the far north all the way to africa, and then survive there with no natural food sources?

    frankly, save your humor for when you make an actual witty comment, not something that a fifth grader knows isn't possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    explain where your research came from that suggests that the crocodile and mosquito population would completely die out from a slight decrease in solar energy? and how polar bears could migrate from the far north all the way to africa, and then survive there with no natural food sources?

    frankly, save your humor for when you make an actual witty comment, not something that a fifth grader knows isn't possible.
    My research? I didn't do any research, I am just hoping people will accept the idea of giant space mirrors enthusiastically, instead of moaning and play Cassandra all the time. If these mirrors were thought as a last resort for global warming it means that they are not so dangerous for the planet. Links:
    https://ssl.catalog.com/~ultimax.com...s/2001_3c.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...sun-shade.html

    They also could be used to extend daylight. link:
    http://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/08/space_mirror.html
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  14. #13  
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    The sun beating on the equator pumps the major atmospheric convections (the Hadley cells, which drive the Ferrel cells, which drive the Polar cells). In turn, these drive the major air streams and climate patterns. When these pumps are "adjusted" it results in the weather for the entire world changing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    I leave the job to the experts ...
    Yeah, Will Rogers had an answer to ridding the Atlantic of German U-boats. His idea was to raise the ocean's temperature, and when the U-boat crews felt too hot and came to the surface for relief, shoot them. How could the oceans be heated like that? Well, he said, he's just the policy maker, he'll leave the details to others. :wink:
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe
    The sun beating on the equator pumps the major atmospheric convections (the Hadley cells, which drive the Ferrel cells, which drive the Polar cells). In turn, these drive the major air streams and climate patterns. When these pumps are "adjusted" it results in the weather for the entire world changing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    I leave the job to the experts ...
    Yeah, Will Rogers had an answer to ridding the Atlantic of German U-boats. His idea was to raise the ocean's temperature, and when the U-boat crews felt too hot and came to the surface for relief, shoot them. How could the oceans be heated like that? Well, he said, he's just the policy maker, he'll leave the details to others. :wink:
    Maybe Will Rogers was thinking about space mirrors but nobody understood him...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe
    The sun beating on the equator pumps the major atmospheric convections (the Hadley cells, which drive the Ferrel cells, which drive the Polar cells). In turn, these drive the major air streams and climate patterns. When these pumps are "adjusted" it results in the weather for the entire world changing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    I leave the job to the experts ...
    Yeah, Will Rogers had an answer to ridding the Atlantic of German U-boats. His idea was to raise the ocean's temperature, and when the U-boat crews felt too hot and came to the surface for relief, shoot them. How could the oceans be heated like that? Well, he said, he's just the policy maker, he'll leave the details to others. :wink:
    Maybe Will Rogers was thinking about space mirrors but nobody understood him...
    Or perhaps that Will Rogers was scientifically illiterate and an absolute moron when it comes to the environmental impact of such an idea... same with you.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myuncle
    My research? I didn't do any research,


    I am just hoping people will accept the idea of giant space mirrors enthusiastically, instead of moaning and play Cassandra all the time.
    Do you genuinely believe these are the only two options? :?
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    Upon reconsideration, letís use the ideas of space mirrors in a different way. In problem solving, itís often easier to tame down a wild idea than to jack up a tame idea. So, letís salvage this idea of space mirrors ... and take a look at ďSpace Mirrors 2.0Ē:

    As for extremely uninhabitable land, I think of deserts. Deserts have oases. The cartoon depiction of an oasis might consist of a small pool surrounded by a few palm trees and some bushes; however, many oases are quite substantial, and can support human habitation, sometimes numbering in the thousands.

    Consider installing tree-sized (or perhaps much larger) shade units in deserts or arid parts of the world. They could resemble giant umbrellas, wall-less tents, shade sails, etc. Iím talking about very durable materials that do not allow any of the sunís energy through, at least not near their centers. They seem very artificial (ie, man-made), and I donít know of anything similar of a natural origin. I specifically imagine shade sails with their lowest point in the middle (to collect rain) with a hole there to allow it to drain through to the ground underneath. Maybe there would need to be pond liners under the sand under the hole in order to retain the water.

    What would happen? They would create microclimates. Or should I say ďnanoĒ climates. Lots of them ... maybe clustered together, or maybe strung along ó for example traversing the Sahara Desert or along an otherwise dried riverbed. The sun would beat less on the soil underneath, and any moisture there would not evaporate as readily. Animals would seek water and shelter under them, use them as way stations, bases of operation, bivouacs, and/or homes. What do animals do? They urinate, defecate, discard remnants of prey, and they die. All these involve the casting off of organic materials. Bird feces contain seeds that can grow.

    The presence of these shade units would concentrate these organic materials nearby or underneath. Vegetation can flourish, attracting more animals, more organic material. Sand becomes soil; soils become enriched. Life flourishes, people can live and thrive nearby.

    This solution seems so simple that I wonder if anyone has ever conducted such experimental projects.

    Hereís a presentation on desert microclimates.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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