Notices
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Thoughts, Actions, and Consciousness

  1. #1 Thoughts, Actions, and Consciousness 
    New Member snapcracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3
    Our thoughts create the world as we see it around us. Thoughts lead to actions. Thoughts and actions by the collective create societies and cultures. Thoughts and actions seem to define us as individuals, yet why do we assume our thoughts are explicit evidence of our consciousness?

    Perhaps consciousness can be likened to space. Space is the ground in which matter, energy, and time exist. Perhaps consciousness is the space in which thoughts and sensations exist?

    We prove the thoughts existing physically by measuring our neuronal networks firing. Some would argue that our consciousness is a byproduct of these neuronal networks firing, an illusion. But yet our thoughts have this inner quality to them as if we can hear them, feel them. Life has a quality of being experienced, being here and vividly so.

    Many esoteric belief systems and many mainstream cultural and religious belief systems hold that consciousness exists as the observer to reality. It is interested that perhaps our thoughts do not define as at all, but merely pass through that which we really are, an observing consciousness.

    Any thoughts on the nature of consciousness or thoughts themselves? Would anyone like to make a good point in favour of consciousness existing as an optical illusion?

    Personally I feel that my consciousness is much more substantial, much more "real", then that of my body or what my sensory organs projects into my mind. All thoughts and viewpoints welcome.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    While constructing plastic people with children at a day-care the kids voted their opinion that "a man" required a body and limbs, but not necessarily a head. A headless man is still a man; a head alone is not. Reflecting on reproduction, evolution ...ultimately our own existentialism... I'm inclined to agree.

    Wanna know where you come from and why you're here? Ask your navel.

    All else is useful tricks with fancy mirrors AKA brains.


    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Bachelors Degree Apopohis Reject's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    489
    Pong may well be inclined to agree with anyone who fails to recognise anything other than the physical stuff all around us, however what made the car he drives? A man's hands perhaps, or the atoms that constitute those hands?

    Not so fast, pong. Those hands would have been nothing more than a couple of meaningless lumps of meat, had there not existed an intellectual input into them, in order for them to manipulate the metals and such into a processed something for you to get into and around in.

    But then prior to any of that, the INTELLIGENCE had to be located inside of that (or another) individual's brain in order to conceive the design in the first place - from beginning to the end product you dismissively utilise.

    Therefore plastic men may indeed not be able to see anything beyond the plastic they inhabit, yet INTELLIGENCE is infinitely more vital than any of that.
    sunshinewarrior: If two people are using the same word, but applying different meanings to it, then they're not communicating.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    INTELLIGENCE had to be located inside of that (or another) individual's brain in order to conceive the design in the first place - from beginning to the end product you dismissively utilise.
    I admit the fancy mirror tricks are useful. Hugely useful. And I dig the emergent quality of thoughts. No dismissal.

    I just don't regard this complex mechanism as existing for its own sake, or having value apart from the meat it's engineered to serve. And personally, meat seems more essential than any clever ideas I've had in life. Against Time, what else persists besides meat?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Bachelors Degree Apopohis Reject's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    489
    Meat persists against time? Please don't ever invite me to any dinner table at which you sit. Hey; do you dig your 'emergent thought' from the same plot of earth you dig for your timeless meat?

    I hope Pong knows what he's talking about with the above, and his smoke 'n 'useful mirror tricks' and such, yet I doubt too many others have similar insight. And even though I have no problem accepting his conclusion re. the lacking in clever ideas he's ever had, yet perhaps he might explain who/what performed the remarkable 'engineering' he speaks of?

    In any case, the question Snapcracker asks and pongs dismisses, is THE VERY ONE which has forever intrigued man and been at the core of his most ponderous investigation into; who and why he is, and how he fits into the greater universe????

    He thought he came up with a solution of worth when he invented religion and subsequently, his many varying 'god' concepts, and even though this 'solution' seemingly managed to last him (after a fashion), from the wider perspective at least, for many thousands of years, there still remained for a time; a far less widespread yet infinitely more vital investigation that continually struggled at warning of his great error in this. Man of course had a deep affection for his laziness, and consequently a deep suspicion and hatred for anyone proposing an alternative to his slumberous generic view of existence, and consequently tormented and slaughtered many of those suggesting he 'wake up', and look into such eternally valid 'alternatives'.

    So religion grew and became increasingly powerful, and through much fear; swallowed up virtually the entire earth into it's mythical net for thousands of years - until recently.

    So now we have developed something termed 'scientific investigation', where such concepts thankfully at long last - became as placed under the microscope, and man grew suspicious and eventually came to the enlightened conclusion that all such ideas are both mythical and ridiculous, and even - offensive to our intelligence.

    It's extremely enlightening to note at this point, that all the mythical religious concepts man has ever come up with, have been entirely founded within his emotions. He naturally became emotional over his fears, particularly about death itself, and he sought to ease his concerns with make-believe stories. In many cases, these would have likely commenced their existence with adults attempting to calm children after the loss of a loved one - as they still often do today - with deceptions that sound 'nice', such as; "daddy has gone to heaven, and is now in the sky watching over you".

    So clearly a more INTELLIGENT investigative work was called for, and we subsequently land in today, where in fact we ask the same question as always, and; 'where to from here' - being Snapcracker's extraordinarily valid question?

    Nicola Tesla wrote: "There manifests itself in the fully developed being - MAN - a desire mysterious, inscrutable and irresistible: to imitate nature, to create, to work himself the wonders he perceives. Inspired to this task he searches, discovers and invents, designs and constructs, and covers with monuments of beauty, grandeur and awe, the star of his birth." Yet some of the latter-day religiously enlightened pongs of this world, continue seeking to indolently overlook such valid and valuable alternatives, then as did his predecessors; torment and slaughter any that raise their head, and from atop their carcasses; proudly claim victory. Such is the soporific darkness we have forever lived under.

    The seeming (updated) insight they generically propose then, is in my opinion; even more turgid, tangential and ludicrous, and insulting to our INTELLIGENCE - that everything of which we know, actually came out of, and owes it's existence - to NOTHING whatsoever!!! What brilliant insight, be that????

    So we now seem to have come to the place where we are expected to permit the concept take root within our intelligence that it doesn't even exist! Or at best - that it (and everything else) is all about a highly impossible series of nonsensical events commencing with nothing at all, based upon nothing in existence, through actions that did not exist - within and upon the nothing that did not exist, yet unfathomably with the result being the outcome of everything in existence.

    AMAZING!????

    Honestly now; is it possible for our selfish and arrogant skewing of reality to come up with anything more putrid and vacuous than this? I sincerely doubt it, but give us time ..................... In the meantime, it's reasonable to note; at least the ancient religious fool, who possessed little in the way of microscopes, yet managed to arrive at farcical deceptions with some little reason behind them, but the above (today's) 'insightful' expectation, drives our core foolishness up to a whole new exospheric level.

    Thankfully there yet remains; such as Snapcracker asking the question, and one or two INTELLIGENT 'alternatives' around.
    sunshinewarrior: If two people are using the same word, but applying different meanings to it, then they're not communicating.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    Meat persists against time?
    Three or four billion years and counting, yeah. How old is your INTELLIGENCE and how long it thinks it'll outlive its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    explain who/what performed the remarkable 'engineering'
    Lucky meat did it. An unbroken line of lucky meat stretching back billions of years. Who am I to break tradition for the sake of my own intelligence?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Bachelors Degree Apopohis Reject's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    Meat persists against time?
    Three or four billion years and counting, yeah. How old is your INTELLIGENCE and how long it thinks it'll outlive its usefulness?
    Your guess as to the age of your smelly dead meat might be valid, even though I doubt even someone as adoring as you will venture too closely near it. Isn't it a shame your guess had to be overlayed by such an enormous question mark it?????

    In any case, notwithstanding your seriouesly hefty question mark; INTELLIGENCE (in my opinion) easily outdates your rotting meat - at both ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    explain who/what performed the remarkable 'engineering'
    Lucky meat did it.
    Define 'lucky'. And then perhaps define what made it 'lucky', in comparison with another 'unlucky' meat???

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    An unbroken line of lucky meat stretching back billions of years. Who am I to break tradition for the sake of my own intelligence?
    I would attest that your intelligence is owed far more than you can possibly give it credit for, but who am I to break the tradition of the purveyor of an intelligence, yet dispises it with such intent????
    sunshinewarrior: If two people are using the same word, but applying different meanings to it, then they're not communicating.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 reply to Apopohis Reject 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    41
    “In any case, the question Snapcracker asks and pongs dismisses, is THE VERY ONE which has forever intrigued man and been at the core of his most ponderous investigation into; who and why he is, and how he fits into the greater universe????”

    The above is quoted from a reply by “Apopohis Reject”

    When I was 26 I had what to me was a revelation; I though to myself that if a God existed, and if that God had a purpose in mind for humans when he created the universe... “There had to be a clue hidden somewhere on Earth that would inevitability point humans toward that given purpose!” If there was no clue than there was no way for humans to find the true purpose of Life, and therefore … it didn't make a whit of difference if the real God Given Purpose of Life existed or not.

    My next thought was ,,, “where does someone look for something that has been hidden from humans since the beginning of humanity?” The Earth has been pretty well explored over the past 1000 years.

    When I was 50 I had another revelation while watching Carl Sagan's “Cosmos” … I discovered the clue to the Purpose of Life! Laying there out in the open for all to see, yet no one had ever before recognized what the clue was telling me. The “clue” had remained hidden in plain sight for more than 200,000 years!

    The next couple of weeks were tough for me. I kept asking myself, “who the F*** do you think you are to thing you have discovered the answer to the greatest mystery in human history?” Obviously I was no one who should have or could have discovered such a valuable item of knowledge. At the end of that period, I decided I would need to write an article about my hypothesis and share it with the world, perhaps anonymously.

    For the past 24 years or so I have been working on that article that now has turned into a book. During that 24 years I have been sincerely hoping someone would make the same discovery I made and publish it; and take the burden off of me. It hasn't happened and at age 74, I don't have enough time left to wait. If I do not publish the book, the knowledge might remain hidden from humanity for many more centuries. I have published my hypothesis on the web at http://realityfound.org.

    What I believe I have done is to provide a scientifically provable “Purpose of Human Life”; along with the proof (according to my understanding of the Laws of Nature) of many other human mysteries (i.e. “Why a watch maker is not needed to explain the beginning of life on Earth?” “Why human societies keep making the same mistakes over and over again through human history?” “How the many problems that humanity now faces can be solved rather simply?”

    In other words … In the book I have answered exactly the questions (i.e. “who,” “why” and “how”) you asked and I quoted at the beginning of this reply. And I have answered with scientific evidence and engineering logic, all based on the Laws of Nature as I understand them.

    Although I do not have any degrees, I worked for more than 20 years as a consultant in a field, “Computer Systems Development,” where advanced degrees are often required. I am afraid that my lack of education shows through in the way I wrote the book. I am hoping that you will over look the glaring errors (it is now in the process of being edited by two professional editors) and read it through to the end. Given your mind set as I read it from some of your postings, I believe you will enjoy the book. :-D http://realityfound.org.
    The single most important criteria for all human decisions is ... "Is it good for Earth's children?"

    Richard (Dick) C Roose
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •