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Thread: Utopian Life or Technology

  1. #1 Utopian Life or Technology 
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    Hello, I'm a grade 11 high school student with some thoughts that I would like others to critique

    We choose a Utopian Life and sacrifice Technology, or we choose Technology and sacrifice a Utopian life.

    Technology is from the imagination of the human mind, and is intended to better our surroundings, make tasks (especially menial ones) easier, etc. However, it also seems to create many problems from my point of view.
    Take for example, fossil fuels. We wouldn't be anywhere close to where we are today without it, but it created the problem of global warming that, from what I've read, can be potentially fatal to the entire earth in time of measures are not taken.
    Military technology. Without the possibility of super weapons (that we suppose are being created in secret) being unleashed, there would be more peace relations.
    But I suppose one can always say we would go back to calvary charges and infantry all the same. Or even farther back, where the height of our technology were bone axes.

    Technology is not just used for war. It is used in every facet of our lives, and makes them easier. If only that technology did not have undesired effects...
    I think that a Utopian life would be a stereotypical 'village' society. Small groups of people, each minding their own business. Everyone depends on one another for survival.

    Perhaps what I am trying to say is that when we (humanity in developed countries) do not all struggle to stay alive, we will have problems. If we recognize each other for their worth, see their value, and contribute in order to survive, we will inevitably have the problems of today's society.

    With technology, we no longer struggle as much for the simple process of living.
    Without technology, we struggle for each day. In this struggle, society is all the closer, and cannot afford bad and noncontributing members. Nor would such a society have prejudice against one another, because they realize they need each other to live.

    I've always wondered what would happen if there was no government. Would it be complete chaos, anarchy in all its hideous glory?
    To me, it seems there only needs to be a government in order to control technology's effect on people.
    If everyone is attempting to survive together, sure, the only form of government would be a council, but they dare not screw other people over because they too are trying to survive.

    Reading this, my argument sounds weak. I am unsure how to put my thoughts into words that can be understood, other than the title, and that the reason we do not have a Utopian life is because we are no longer struggling to survive, and we are no longer struggling because of technology.

    What do you think?

    Do we really trade a Utopian Life for Technology, and vice versa?

    Am I naive and wrong?

    What would you prefer? A Utopian Life, or a life of Technology?

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this
    :-D


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  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
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    If we chose to live a peacefull and simple life long ago before technology jumped up so much, we would live in so much ignorance and uncertainity.

    The idea of an utopia is great but in opposition to you i think a true utopia is only reachable when we have reached a technological state in which we can bend the rules of the universe/nature to our will and become immortal through science.

    What use is a Utopia if it only last for a brief moment ? Life is over so fast!


    What people also fail to realize is that there cant be good without evil! With no conflict "good" has no meaning.

    Imagine you are rich, you have no enemies, eat what you want, get as many women you want etc, sleep when you want, do what you want.... Great right? Maybe the first months, then years pass... passificm will inncur and you will get bored. And lazy, and rot.

    So a utopia is not achievable really, not without progress anyway.

    There is also a saying that goes "The journey matters, not the end!" which makes me believe if we both get our will... you - A utopia, me - technological advance to the near impossible limits - the world would end. I have a theory that any civilization that comes to achieve all possible knowledge AND the power to end the universe , will end it to start over the proccess of life, change and advancement all over.


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  4. #3  
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    Hmmm, I see what you mean.
    I think what I'm trying to say by Utopia...
    Is a perfect society. Not necessarily a perfect world per say, but a society in which people aren't prejudice, don't hate, and live in peace with one another.
    Life would be hard. Terribly hard without technology. The life expectancy back then is a testament of that. But I think a 'perfect' society could only be reached without technology...
    Yes. A 'perfect society' I think, not Utopia...
    But a Utopia would be dependent on the people, so I suppose for me, a Utopia is the ideal society.
    One reason these thoughts come to my mind is the people I see at schools these days. Picking fights just because somebody is a different race...
    If they had to co-exist with these people to survive, there would be no hate, because there is the understanding of survival, I think.
    Thoughts?
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  5. #4  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPhaoimnaes
    Hmmm, I see what you mean.
    I think what I'm trying to say by Utopia...
    Is a perfect society. Not necessarily a perfect world per say, but a society in which people aren't prejudice, don't hate, and live in peace with one another.
    Life would be hard. Terribly hard without technology. The life expectancy back then is a testament of that. But I think a 'perfect' society could only be reached without technology...
    Yes. A 'perfect society' I think, not Utopia...
    But a Utopia would be dependent on the people, so I suppose for me, a Utopia is the ideal society.
    One reason these thoughts come to my mind is the people I see at schools these days. Picking fights just because somebody is a different race...
    If they had to co-exist with these people to survive, there would be no hate, because there is the understanding of survival, I think.
    Thoughts?
    The quality of induviduals are low because of the populations imo. In my opinion overpopulation is the source of most evils in the world though that is for another discussion.

    But as you say if you lived in a small village with no technology you would depend and respect eachother alot more. It would be a hard and simple life but you would be happy and enjoy the small things right?

    Id agree that such an existence would be preferable to todays urban nightmare of social rules and imprisonments.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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  6. #5  
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    You need remember that technology is not the opposition to these Utopia. The technology invented to solve daily problem in the village life. Also, you have to define technology- even metal working is technology.
    Can you imagine yourself turn off the lights and start live with a torch? or going hunting with spears? ohh my bad, there are no spears because there is no metal working.
    My point- technology is here to help us. Instead of thinking about it as an obstacle to the perfect life, start think about it as a way to achive the perfect life- something like 'The Venus Project' (I don't support it, but it might change your way of thinking).

    I had thoughts just like you recently but I figured that village life are no more then a desire to make the world simple without things like politics,wars, money and work which make the world more complicate.
    And by the way- I am 11 grade either. Maybe it's something with the age?
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  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman CrimsonViper's Avatar
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    Say for example we didnt have technology and your Utopia was created. That might get rid of man made evils but it would not get rid of natural evils. Say for example your Utopian village had a drought or a disease spread quickly through the village. The source of man-made evil suddenly becomes your saviour in the form of GM crops and medicine to counteract disease.
    There are two sides to technology, the one the OP stated and the other which can be a source of happiness and a way to make society better.
    Also, without technology we could not be discussing this as we live in different parts of the world :P
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  8. #7  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
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    Don't forget that the fictional Utopia was an island protected from external enemies by armies. However pleasant life may have been on the island it was only made possible by violence, or the threat of violence.

    Imagining a perfect world, or perfect society is guaranteed to lead to disappointment and despair. Much better to compare today to the past and ask if things are getting better. Science and technology have been responsible for the obvious improvements in living standards all around the world, and less obviously, for the simultaneous spread of rational thinking and its product, representative government.
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  9. #8 Re: Utopian Life or Technology 
    Forum Freshman AlphaMuDelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPhaoimnaes
    Hello, I'm a grade 11 high school student with some thoughts that I would like others to critique

    We choose a Utopian Life and sacrifice Technology, or we choose Technology and sacrifice a Utopian life.

    Technology is from the imagination of the human mind, and is intended to better our surroundings, make tasks (especially menial ones) easier, etc. However, it also seems to create many problems from my point of view.
    Take for example, fossil fuels. We wouldn't be anywhere close to where we are today without it, but it created the problem of global warming that, from what I've read, can be potentially fatal to the entire earth in time of measures are not taken.
    Military technology. Without the possibility of super weapons (that we suppose are being created in secret) being unleashed, there would be more peace relations.
    But I suppose one can always say we would go back to *cavalry charges and infantry all the same. Or even farther back, where the height of our technology were bone axes.

    Technology is not just used for war. It is used in every facet of our lives, and makes them easier. If only that technology did not have undesired effects...
    I think that a Utopian life would be a stereotypical 'village' society. Small groups of people, each minding their own business. Everyone depends on one another for survival.

    Perhaps what I am trying to say is that when we (humanity in developed countries) do not all struggle to stay alive, we will have problems. If we recognize each other for their worth, see their value, and contribute in order to survive, we will inevitably have the problems of today's society.

    With technology, we no longer struggle as much for the simple process of living.
    Without technology, we struggle for each day. In this struggle, society is all the closer, and cannot afford bad and noncontributing members. Nor would such a society have prejudice against one another, because they realize they need each other to live.

    I've always wondered what would happen if there was no government. Would it be complete chaos, anarchy in all its hideous glory?
    To me, it seems there only needs to be a government in order to control technology's effect on people.
    If everyone is attempting to survive together, sure, the only form of government would be a council, but they dare not screw other people over because they too are trying to survive.

    Reading this, my argument sounds weak. I am unsure how to put my thoughts into words that can be understood, other than the title, and that the reason we do not have a Utopian life is because we are no longer struggling to survive, and we are no longer struggling because of technology.

    What do you think?

    Do we really trade a Utopian Life for Technology, and vice versa?

    Am I naive and wrong?

    What would you prefer? A Utopian Life, or a life of Technology?

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this
    :-D
    Your argument is incorrect. It is only through the continued advancement of technology that we can hope to create utopian world. A world without technology is a world in which we do not band together, rather it is a world in which we eat each other to survive. Humans banded together because they were able to master their surroundings and, through co-operation, formed societies to protect the contributors. War is battle between societies, which will eventually cease when we have established the technology and scientific advancement to eliminate the reasons to go to war in the first place. Enlightened, scientific people coupled with the economy will lead to a truly global society. It will have its flaws, but it will always get better. What hope for growth is there in a savage world where we live to serve our instincts?

    Also, governments use technology to control people, the technology does not govern the government. Technology is a set of tools for the direct manipulation of matter, as much as mathematics is a set of tools we use to understand matter and consequently enable our manipulation of it.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    TPhaoimnaes, think about our close relatives the gorillas.

    They live in the midst of nature with very little technology (maybe sometimes using a rock to break a nut). No organized government. As close to your non-technological utopia as you might possibly dream.

    And guess what, they kill each other.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman AlphaMuDelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury
    Imagining a perfect world, or perfect society is guaranteed to lead to disappointment and despair. Much better to compare today to the past and ask if things are getting better. Science and technology have been responsible for the obvious improvements in living standards all around the world, and less obviously, for the simultaneous spread of rational thinking and its product, representative government.
    Also, well said.
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