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Thread: The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god.

  1. #1 The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god. 
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    I'm sure you've heard this one before.

    Every now and then, theists argue that the god that they worship not existing means that there can't be any universal morals and ethics (which is assuming there's such a thing to begin with).

    Well first off, this argument is pretty much based on faith. You are assuming it's a fact that some sort of god exists.

    More importantly, you are assuming that it's a fact that said god not only shares several moral and ethical principles with you (which from my experience I assume is a moral code of someone who lives in the developed Western world), but actively provides said views and enforces them. Would it be valid to claim that moral codes based on helping others, peace, and general kindness would come from a empirically proven god like Huitzilopochtli?


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  3. #2  
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    I have been studying for years trying to answer the question "Why do humans do the things we do and can we do better?"

    It is conventional wisdom for those who are versed in psychology and whom I have read that our most dominating motivation for what we do is our consciousness of our mortality. Most of this is unconscious forces because we do a very good job of repressing this motivation because we can not handle the anxiety produced.

    The most glaring example is that we have created soul, then gods, then God, and then religion because of our inability to handle our mortality.


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  4. #3 Re: The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    More importantly, you are assuming that it's a fact that said god not only shares several moral and ethical principles with you (which from my experience I assume is a moral code of someone who lives in the developed Western world), but actively provides said views and enforces them. Would it be valid to claim that moral codes based on helping others, peace, and general kindness would come from a empirically proven god like Huitzilopochtli?
    Heh.

    You're preching to the converted here, Mr Sulla.

    But try getting a moral-theist to accept that!
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  5. #4 Re: The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    I'm sure you've heard this one before.

    Every now and then, theists argue that the god that they worship not existing means that there can't be any universal morals and ethics (which is assuming there's such a thing to begin with).
    It's a true statement, which does not assume that such a thing exists to begin with. In fact, a person making that statement must have explicitly considered the possibility of no universal morals or ethics, otherwise would not have made the statement.
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  6. #5 Re: The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    I'm sure you've heard this one before.

    Every now and then, theists argue that the god that they worship not existing means that there can't be any universal morals and ethics (which is assuming there's such a thing to begin with).

    Well first off, this argument is pretty much based on faith. You are assuming it's a fact that some sort of god exists.

    More importantly, you are assuming that it's a fact that said god not only shares several moral and ethical principles with you (which from my experience I assume is a moral code of someone who lives in the developed Western world), but actively provides said views and enforces them. Would it be valid to claim that moral codes based on helping others, peace, and general kindness would come from a empirically proven god like Huitzilopochtli?
    It seems clear that the theists you are talking about are not using the brains.

    You also are not using your brains if you lump together ALL so called theists (surely you mean Christians) and make such sweeping statements.

    Your question is full of lack of understanding and lack of sincerity.

    What is your purpose for lasooing all these people together and saying that you think they are wrong ?
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  7. #6 Re: The claim that morality/ethics is dependent on a god. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    Every now and then, theists argue that the god that they worship not existing means that there can't be any universal morals and ethics (which is assuming there's such a thing to begin with).
    Even with religion/God, there are no absolute morals. Where do these absolute morals come from, the bible (or other holy book)? Even the bible doesn't cover every situation. A classic example is imagine a train whose brakes are broken and is heading straight towards a group of 5 people. You have the ability to divert the train to another track, but there is someone on that track too. Do you divert the train and kill that person, or leave it as is and let it kill the 5 people? What if it wasn't 5 people, but 500 or 5 million? What if it was just 2 people or just 1? What if the person on the other track was old and sick and likely would die soon anyways? And where exactly do you draw the line?
    Anyways, most relgious people pick and choose their morals even from the bible. If they didn't, all Christians/Jews would be stoning homosexuals to death.
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  8. #7  
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    I believe that the concept of a "universal" yet specific law or form of conduct is dependent on human will to spread it and enforce it as far as willingly or physically possible.
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