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Thread: Why do seductive sound bites often win?

  1. #1 Why do seductive sound bites often win? 
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    Why do seductive sound bites often win?

    Framing is a means for placing a matter into a context for discussion and contemplation. “Frames are the mental structures that allow human beings to understand reality—and sometimes to create what we take to be reality”. Thinking Points—George Lakoff

    An example of framing is what happens when we speak about economics. The ‘market’ is often the frame used in economic matters. The word ‘market’ has been developed such that when we invoke the concept we are invoking a ‘force of nature’, not to be ‘tinkered with’ or ‘regulated’. When facing a force of nature one can only show ‘due diligence’, ‘flexibility’, one can only ‘ride-out’ the ups and downs.

    The market is in fact a human institution with rules developed by humans; but our culture has framed the market as a force of nature not to be messed with, a common ideological practice. This fact never becomes an issue because the frame does not include it.

    A similar thing happens with education. Education is framed in economic terms and market forces. Our schools and colleges produce graduates prepared for the job market. Teachers become educational resources.

    Our schools compete with one another based upon productivity and the degree upon which they produce the graduates with the best job offers. Technology is engaged to facilitate mass production. When schools compete, everyone wins. Expenses are cut and teachers paid the minimum allowed by supply and demand. Vouchers will fit within the competitive frame because parents are given a choice of product.

    “War on Terrorism” is a good example of faming. Both ‘war’ and ‘terrorism’ carry a great deal of useful baggage for those who create the frame.

    Any kind of action becomes justified by war; terrorism creates terror that permits easy manipulation of the population by government. Colin Powell suggested ‘crime’ as the proper frame and one can easily see the difference between fighting crime or fighting war; also a great deal of difference between fighting criminals versus fighting terrorists. I suspect no one would have considered torture as a proper tool for fighting crime.

    Issues are framed within an ideology thereby providing the insider with a foundation that requires no critical examination. Issues are framed for outsiders to influence their thoughts thereby circumventing critical thought. Issues are reframed to counter the frames of others. Frames require long time investment to set up the associations derived by the frames. Frames are containers in which to control the thought processes of the people. Frames are an integral part of our thinking. Frames are the cruise control of our brains.


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  3. #2 Re: Why do seductive sound bites often win? 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Why do seductive sound bites often win?

    Framing is a means for placing a matter into a context for discussion and contemplation. “Frames are the mental structures that allow human beings to understand reality—and sometimes to create what we take to be reality”. Thinking Points—George Lakoff

    [snip]

    Issues are framed within an ideology thereby providing the insider with a foundation that requires no critical examination. Issues are framed for outsiders to influence their thoughts thereby circumventing critical thought. Issues are reframed to counter the frames of others. Frames require long time investment to set up the associations derived by the frames. Frames are containers in which to control the thought processes of the people. Frames are an integral part of our thinking. Frames are the cruise control of our brains.
    True cognitive psychology - as evidenced by the empirical approach of AI - sees framing as essential for thought. Whilst post-modernist thinking may point out the limitations of this characteristic of cognition, there is no way to replace framing with 'nothing' or complete openness. Without framing thinking, and even perception, would be impossible.


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    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    Can I ask something irrelevant to the terrible writing Coberst continually pushes? Where the fuck does he get all of his random and often barely-related philosophy-oriented quotes?
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    As a retired engineer, committed to self actualisation through critical thinking, he exposes himself.
    Sorry - that was incomplete.... he exposes himself to the writings of the great thinkers of the past and present. His intrinsic modesty, which is both extensive and impressive in its scope, compels him to share his insights with those of us who lack the intellectual capacity and spiritual vigour to obtain such insights using our own resources.

    To answer your question more succinctly, have you heard of libraries?
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  6. #5 Re: Why do seductive sound bites often win? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Why do seductive sound bites often win?

    Framing is a means for placing a matter into a context for discussion and contemplation. “Frames are the mental structures that allow human beings to understand reality—and sometimes to create what we take to be reality”. Thinking Points—George Lakoff

    [snip]

    Issues are framed within an ideology thereby providing the insider with a foundation that requires no critical examination. Issues are framed for outsiders to influence their thoughts thereby circumventing critical thought. Issues are reframed to counter the frames of others. Frames require long time investment to set up the associations derived by the frames. Frames are containers in which to control the thought processes of the people. Frames are an integral part of our thinking. Frames are the cruise control of our brains.
    True cognitive psychology - as evidenced by the empirical approach of AI - sees framing as essential for thought. Whilst post-modernist thinking may point out the limitations of this characteristic of cognition, there is no way to replace framing with 'nothing' or complete openness. Without framing thinking, and even perception, would be impossible.
    I am not suggesting that frames can or should be eliminated. I am suggesting that if we comprehend how frames work we can stop allowing our self to be manipulated by them.

    The problem is that few people understand the nature of frames and the force these frames have. When people do not comprehend they are unable to look behind the curtain. Another big problem is how to frame the issue to fit your value system.

    Another good example of the power of good framing was the success of the conservatives in reframing the inheritance tax into a death tax.

    People embedded within an ideology have a point of view that to them is universally true and is natural. They do not comprehend that they are using a linguistic frame. Take the pro-life church going individual. To that person the killing of a baby is not a frame but is reality. Likewise the pro-choice individual considers that the only rational way to look at the matter is from the choice view point. Ideologies are powerful because most of the individuals have the truth and the truth is whatever the truth of the ideology is.

    I think that we must take "intellectual" off the pedestal and recognize that those we consider to be intellectuals today have failed us. They have sold out and have become hired-guns for the plutocracy. We must develop new intellectuals and we can do that when we recognize that adults can become self-actualizing self-learners and thus develop them self into intellectuals.

    What is meant by intellectual? I suspect you would get ten different answers from ten different people but I will tell you what it means to me.

    Intellectual activity is exploring and enthusiastically utilizing this marvelous brain we were all given at birth. I suspect the normal adult brain is in neutral almost all of his or her life. When we finish schooling most people seem to consider their intellectual search for ‘truth’ is over. In fact most people do not even examine such an idea.

    An intellectual life is a life in which the search for truth and meaning becomes an important hobby. The person with an intellectual life spends as much time trying to understand as s/he spends learning how to hit a golf ball properly.

    All of us pass through a schooling system that is designed to fill our heads with the knowledge we need to get a good job. Our schooling prepares us to become strong and industrious workers and voracious consumers. We have been prepared to become maximizers of production and consumption.

    An intellectual life is one we must create after schooling so that we can create our value system more in tune with what we are as intellectual beings than what we are as consumers.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Can I ask something irrelevant to the terrible writing Coberst continually pushes? Where the fuck does he get all of his random and often barely-related philosophy-oriented quotes?
    Books, before there was the Internet there were books. People still use books to learn. If we read the works of the best thinkers we can develop a more sophisticated intellect and thereby comprehend many of the world's mysteries. Ask your friends, I am sure that one of them can help you comprehend the value of books.
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  8. #7 Re: Why do seductive sound bites often win? 
    Lyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Lakoff
    “Frames are the mental structures that allow human beings to understand reality—and sometimes to create what we take to be reality”.
    Quite correct. Your posts illustrate this time and again. Rather than cite specific people doing specific things, you rely on generalizations like "our educational system" and "Corporate America," taking it for granted that what is true of one sector of society is true of another.

    If you're wondering why sound bytes like these often "win," then, your own posts provide the answer: because it's easy. Anyone can do it without any training, since the process of philosophizing in this manner requires no research.


    p.s. I think it's hilarious that this post asks why seductive sound bytes often win, and the post is authored by someone who often precedes his op-eds with a "Quickie from Wiki."
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  9. #8  
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    I find your assumptions of my illiteracy to be grossly inaccurate and hilarious. Funny thing: I have TB hard drives full of nothing but digital books. I have a personal library of over a few hundred books. Do you know what I spend most of my time doing? Reading books. Yet I cannot encounter the variety of nonsensical quotations that Coberst routinely uses.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  10. #9  
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    no one assumed you were illiterate. Coberst assumed you only sought information from the internet and not books. that's all, no need to take it as an attack nor an assumption to illiteracy... something that, given you are on a discussion FORUM..., seems like a silly thing to conclude as being implied.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  11. #10  
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    Amazing! Upon use of bold that's my first good response in ages!

    I took the word "illiterate" in a more general sense, meaning "Marked by inferiority to an expected standard of familiarity with language and literature."
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    I find your assumptions of my illiteracy to be grossly inaccurate and hilarious. Funny thing: I have TB hard drives full of nothing but digital books. I have a personal library of over a few hundred books. Do you know what I spend most of my time doing? Reading books. Yet I cannot encounter the variety of nonsensical quotations that Coberst routinely uses.
    Then why did post such a dumb question?
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    I find your assumptions of my illiteracy to be grossly inaccurate and hilarious. Funny thing: I have TB hard drives full of nothing but digital books. I have a personal library of over a few hundred books. Do you know what I spend most of my time doing? Reading books. Yet I cannot encounter the variety of nonsensical quotations that Coberst routinely uses.
    Then why did post such a dumb question?
    Yet I cannot encounter the variety of nonsensical quotations that Coberst routinely uses.

    Clearly, I need more bold.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  14. #13  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Well, regular readers will be well aware that Darius and I respect each other about as much as Dick Cheney and Osama bin Laden. You will therefore understand the pain it causes me to observe that he did not ask a dumb question. Ah well.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Well, regular readers will be well aware that Darius and I respect each other about as much as Dick Cheney and Osama bin Laden.
    Which one are you?
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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