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Thread: I WONDER ABOUT THIS PROBLEM:

  1. #1 I WONDER ABOUT THIS PROBLEM: 
    Forum Bachelors Degree charles brough's Avatar
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    This is a problem I have been working with for over a year:

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'TRUTH', Yet there ARE things that are true.

    Of course, it all depends upon how you define "truth," and I think that is the key to solving the problem.

    Okay, lets set up the problem properly. I say there is no such thing as "truth" because we are finite in an infinite world. Because of it, the best we can and the best we have ever done is to develop "theories" to explain things. Then, we have to change or replace them as we acquire more accurate information. This applies to even the so-called Laws of Nature. Also, no matter how accurate we are in measuring, it is ultimately possible, later on, to measure something still more accurately. Because of this, mathematics can be elegent and even "absolute," but since its usefullness depends entirely on the un-absolute, hence inaccurate, data, it is always illusionary as far as achieving "true" answers is concerned.

    Yet, we all KNOW things which are ABSOLUTELY true! For example, we know the Earth is round. It is not EXACTLY round, but I did not say it was. Even if not exactly round, it is still "round." It is absolutely not flat or square. That is the truth. Also, I can say positively that my wife is not pregnant. I can regard that as "absolute truth" because she is dead. And "some books have more than a hundred pages and others have less" is also true.

    So, there is no Truth and yet there Is truth.

    For a year I have recognized this, but have yet to give a satisfactory rule for defining what can and what can never be justifaibly regarded as the absolute truth.

    What is "obvious" must be able to be defined in such a way that it can be logically seperated from the more pertinent, more accurate understanding of ourselves and our universe. that is what most attracts our concern and, often, can be found at the very "fronteers of science" and of the human mind.

    I would appreciate all your thoughts on this.

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com


    Brough,
    civilization-overview (dot) com

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    So if I have understood you completely wrong (or right, whatever
    is the truth...), you ask to think, and if possible, to
    develope a way to proof that truth exist or a rule that
    tells how to recognize "absolute truth"?

    Well, how about this...

    Lets say that TRUE stands for "the Absolute Truth"...

    Then we must define FALSE...

    Easiest way would be to say FALSE is opposite of truth,
    but because statement can be both, FALSE and TRUE,
    depending the case, we can't accept this explanation...

    So let's say that FALSE is a definition of a statement,
    where TRUE can't be defined...

    So how this helps figuring "the absolute truth"?

    Well, it is easy...
    When we know that FALSE is all the statements cases,
    where TRUE can't occur, we can say that
    TRUE is all the statement cases, where FALSE can't occur...
    (this takes care of all those "depends"-cases)...

    So now we know that TRUE (aka. the absolute truth) can
    exist, we know that truth, nothing but a sheer truth, can exist...

    So definition of truth is:
    A case of a statement where is no possible FALSE opinion
    to choose from...

    Now lets develope this idea futher...

    So if TRUE is all the cases where FALSE can't occur,
    doesn't it lead us to the fact that there must be
    also "the absolute non-truth" (I don't use word
    "lie" because lies aren't allways opposite of truth)...

    Now if we define it the same way than truth it would be:
    A case of a statement where is no possible TRUE opinion
    to choose from...

    So it would be completely opposite to "absolute truth",
    what can't be possible, because there is cases
    where FALSE and TRUE is as acceptable solutions...

    This will lead to definition of TRUOLSE (true or false):

    If a statement doesn't have any possible cases
    where either TRUE or FALSE can't occur,
    then the case is binded to its usage and depends
    on possible negotation of given opinion...


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  4. #3  
    Forum Bachelors Degree charles brough's Avatar
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    I tried very hard to understand your reasoning but had problems. I think the problem is that we cannot be abstract about this. If we don't use examples in every statement, we end up in a world that doesn't exist. I think examples are the whole key to this because there are different catagories and the examples fall in the various ones. One good question is how many catagories there are and why?

    For example, the statement: "I was not born yesterday." is absolutely true. However, when we state a positive, then we can never make it absolutely true. We can never say EXACTLY when I was born. We can say that the Earth is not square and be saying the absolute truth, but when we say it is round, we are not being exact because it is not exactly round. So, does this mean no positive statement can be abolutely true? No because a woman who knows can say she is pregnant and it can be the absolute truth.

    Actually, when I think about it more. It is not absolutely false that the Earth is square since all deviation in its shape from a perfect globular shape makes it just a very inaccurate statement!

    There are 6 billion people on Earth, but since the figure is not exact. it is not the absolute truth. If I say there are 5 billion, it is false, but not completely false---just grosly inaccurate.

    What it seems to me to come down to is that accuracy is the key to it all. Nothing is totally accurate. So, there is no absolute truth. Yet, are there or are there not exceptions?

    We can define things in such a way that we end up with absute truths but are there also OBVIOUS truths? I have been looking at your post, for example, seems to be the absolute truth. So, is it an exception? How can there be no absolutely truth when some things can be absolutely true?

    charles
    Brough,
    civilization-overview (dot) com

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    I don't understand why you say that there are no absolute truths. It's all down to the definitions you use. Saying the earth is square - or a cube - is absolutely false because those terms have specific definitions. If something isn't square then it isn't square. You say that it's impossible to say exactly when you were born, but why? If you mean YOU specifically and the knowledge is gone, that's fine. But it's certainly not impossible to know the moment of birth for any given newborn, if you define birth and you accept a measurable range of time..down to the second, for example.
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    I think I am missing something. But first you state there is no “absolute” truth because we can only describe nature and we do not have any objective authority to claim this theory as the truth. So fare I follow you (if I understand correct).
    Then you say there is a truth, indeed this new truth exists in your description of nature. Claiming a few starting points as correct makes certain other point seems as the truth, but then you are forgetting your first argumentation because and this is that you do not have the authority to claim your starting points as the truth.

    your example:
    It is the truth that my death wife is not pregnant.
    Is only thru if you except the theory that there is no after life (which I do; but do I have the absolute authority to say this. no). So in conclusion saying your wife is not pregnant isn’t the “absolute” truth.
    he who forgets...will be destined to remember (Nothing Man - Pearl Jam)
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    At least as long as we use language {in its current form} to comunicate and express ourself we could obviously never say anything absolutly true. All the components of languedge are constructed and do not have conection with reality. .....
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