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Thread: The universe makes no sense

  1. #1 The universe makes no sense 
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    How do we make a distinction between that which is true, and that which is false? By what means do we accept or deny evidence? To what end is reality defined from these?

    These questions are not meant to be replied to. Every person has their own method for answering, even if they have the same title. Those that rally under "logic" would respond similarly, those that rally under philosophy, faith, empiricism, would each respond in kind to their dogmas and paradigms. To each group, their methods are equally valid as the next claims to be.

    If I were to ask "Which method of thought produces the most accurate results?", I would most certainly be met with "my own method". For even though multiple people rally under a single paradigm, their interpretations of this paradigm differ. Even by the acceptance and rote memorization of each paradigms axioms, the interpretation and application will be different.

    The conclusion, of course, is that every paradigm is defined by the experience of the entity. As no two entities can possibly have the same experiences, no two paradigms are exactly alike. Even if two entities agree they are, unknown differences or applications will exist.

    From this we know that whether or not the universe makes sense, we're incapable of totally grasping it.


    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i've always liked the following simile for humankind's view of the universe : "the chicken scratches around its own backyard, and thinks the backyard is the universe"


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  4. #3  
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    What you're really saying in an unnecessarily complex way is "All views and perceptions of the universe from living points of view interpret the universe in subjective (and thusly incommunicable and different) ways). Well, this is true, but we all exist in a universally objective environment. Whether you're Mexican or Caucasian, if I played something on a radio or speaker, and everyone had a sense of hearing, although everyone may not understand what they are hearing, they are hearing the same exact sounds (Although since no one is in the exact same spot, then sound waves will be stronger or weaker depending on the subject's distance from the point of seismic origin).

    We live in a single reality, and thusly, there must be some universal points of observation.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    What you're really saying in an unnecessarily complex way
    Unnecessarily complex for you. It's important to consider everyone else over yourself. Otherwise nobody would ever understand you.

    is "All views and perceptions of the universe from living points of view interpret the universe in subjective (and thusly incommunicable and different) ways.
    I said what I said. Rewording it turns it into something I did not say. It may be more concise than what I said, but it is not what I said. Suggesting all perceptions are subjective is but a small part of what I said. As the rest is also there, I am not going to state it again, but rather suggest you read it again carefully.

    As for the single reality, there is no "we". That is the chosen paradigm you have chosen for yourself, and you choose to apply to everyone else. It's demonstratably flawed by the simple fact nobody else shares your same perception.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  6. #5 Re: The universe makes no sense 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    From this we know that whether or not the universe makes sense, we're incapable of totally grasping it.
    I don't know about the "makes sense" part, but if you replace it with say "exists" or more interestiongly "has certain attributes", then it looks as though you have, independently, come up with the same notion as the great Immanuel Kant who described the irreconcilable difference between the noumenal (that which is) and the phenomenal (that which is experienced).
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  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    Well, this is true, but we all exist in a universally objective environment. Whether you're Mexican or Caucasian, if I played something on a radio or speaker, and everyone had a sense of hearing, although everyone may not understand what they are hearing, they are hearing the same exact sounds
    Really!! Can you prove this? Can you demonstrate this? If you can you are unique amongst humanity and I shall likely bow down and worship you.

    Please, go ahead, prove this declaration.
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  8. #7 Re: The universe makes no sense 
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior
    I don't know about the "makes sense" part, but if you replace it with say "exists" or more interestiongly "has certain attributes", then it looks as though you have, independently, come up with the same notion as the great Immanuel Kant who described the irreconcilable difference between the noumenal (that which is) and the phenomenal (that which is experienced).
    If you replace it with "exists", then the argument changes to something else entirely. I say the universe exists based on the sole fact we experience it, but that this universe is different for everyone. "I think therefore I am", and as everyone thinks differently there is no conformity in interpretation. The universe "makes no sense" because we are incapable of grasping it.

    There is no difference between that which is, and that which is experience, for our experience dictates that which is. My opinion of the universe does differ from those of Immanuel Kant.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman ultraviolet_catastrophe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    we all exist in a universally objective environment. Whether you're Mexican or Caucasian, if I played something on a radio or speaker, and everyone had a sense of hearing, although everyone may not understand what they are hearing, they are hearing the same exact sounds (Although since no one is in the exact same spot, then sound waves will be stronger or weaker depending on the subject's distance from the point of seismic origin).

    We live in a single reality, and thusly, there must be some universal points of observation.
    this is highly questionable by any rational point of view. to profess that everyone sees or hears or lives the same thing is not only naive but also falsely dogmatic. you cannot affirm anything outside of yourself and expect credibility. if two people cant even agree about the simultaneity of two events, imagine two people agreeing about the nature of reality and life. all you know is what you are and what you see, and most of times im not even sure people realize what they are and what they see, because reality is very surreal.
    to say that we live in a single reallity is also subjective to skepticism and instant discredit. every person is an isolated universe containing infinite possibilities, and living is completely subjective to personal relativity. universal points of observation arent trustworthy concepts and you could even use the relativity theory to contest your affirmations, because physics is also structured philosophy, difference being there is physical proof most of the time.
    dogmatization of truth is absolutely silly.
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