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Thread: What is society?- Normality vs. Abnormality

  1. #1 What is society?- Normality vs. Abnormality 
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    I'd just like to encourage thoughtful discussion rather than directly pose a question and have it answered. I have but one question, and am looking for many answers, and also many other points of view besides my own.

    What is society?
    What is normality?
    What is abnormality?
    What is family?
    What are friends?
    Why do we see it as normal to care about family members?
    Why do we see it as abnormal to be emotionless?
    Why does everyone foster this misguided blind subjective view that everyone should care about their family, and that differences in thought on this denote psychological problems?
    Where did this misguided sense of familial closeness come from?

    These are but some of the questions I have, which I'd hope many of you can contribute to answering.

    But the most important of all, what is family? Why do people think that being in a family automatically warrants interaction between family members, and caring between family members? I have work to do, theories, books to write, I don't have the time to interact with my family. I don't use emotion much when talking, because I don't have these brainwashing subjective ideological views of caring about one's family. Because such views distract one from reality. I'm a progressive thinker, not a maintainer of already derailed value.

    Why do people devote their very minds to these negatively conformist ideologies, which are neither rational, nor beneficent?


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Oh dear. Things not going well at home? Teenage angst rampant?

    What is society?
    Society is a natural extension of the human inclination to form communal groups. The complexity of these groups in comparison with other primates is a reflection of the possibilities created by language, technology and culture, and the positive feedback loops emerging from their interaction.

    What is normality?
    Behaving is a manner that has much in common with the behaviour of others in the same or similar situation. Some normal behaviour is culture dependent, some is species dependent.

    What is abnormality?
    Any behaviour that does not fit the above definition.

    What is family?
    A group, generally small, of closely related individuals. The relationship is typically genetic.

    What are friends?
    Individuals with whom one has established a mutually beneficial connection based upon common interests or circumstances.

    Why do we see it as normal to care about family members?
    The emergence of complex culture and consequently civilisation in humans is a result of our intelligence. This intelligence has imposed a lengthy post natal development period. It therefore becomes important that mothers feel an instinctive compulsion to look after their children for many years, that fathers form lasting pair bonds and support the mother through this period, that siblings provide additional support as they mature, that the benefits of cooperation are found throughout the extended family.

    In short an attachment to family is a genetically based norm present in other primates, but further developed within humans as they evolved. Even shorter, it is our nature to care about family.

    Why do we see it as abnormal to be emotionless?
    Emotions are normal. All 'normal' people have them. Any one who lacks them is certainly abnormal. Anyone who fails to express them is abnormal in some cultures, but not all. (e.g. Stiff British upper lip.)

    Why does everyone foster this misguided blind subjective view that everyone should care about their family, and that differences in thought on this denote psychological problems?
    Where did this misguided sense of familial closeness come from?
    The view is neither misguided, nor subjective, though it may sometimes be blind. From an evolutionary biological standpoint the only succesful organisms are those who survive to produce offspring. The survival rate is increased by the cooperation and support available in the family setting.

    A different stance on this is normal for young adults (people we now call adolescents) who are exploring their potential role in society and are preparing to leave the nest. In order to fully establish your sense of identity you have to 'rebel' against parental and familial constraints. This also appears to have survival value, though the exact mechanism is unclear.

    I think it was Mark Twain who said "When I was eighteen I knew my father was largely ignorant of most things. When I was twenty I was amazed by how much the old coot had learned in two years."

    You might wish to think about that.

    (Or, more to the point, stop being such a self obsessed juvenile prat and start acting like the adult you seem to think you are.)


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  4. #3  
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    Hah, "Teenage angst"? I have much more than a family to pay attention to, my political agenda is already beginning and nothing can get in the way of it, more to the point, not all humans are social creatures, and I don't see why social interaction matters so much.
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  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    Hah, "Teenage angst"? I have much more than a family to pay attention to, ....
    That's fine. Leave home now and stop sponging off them. Or have I misconstrued - do you give a couple of thousand dollars a month to pay for your upkeep, proceeds from your succesful internet business?

    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    and I don't see why social interaction matters so much.
    I have explained it in evolutionary terms in my first response. Which part did you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    not all humans are social creatures.
    All normal ones are. While the degree to which they feel the need to interact varies, it is present in all of them. Gosh, it might even be connected with your desire to communicate with others on a forum such as this!

    my political agenda is already beginning and nothing can get in the way of it
    There is one huge obstacle in the way of implementing your agenda, whatever it is. That is your failure to accept that a) people are social animals; b)politics is all about socitites norms.

    Please extend my sincere sympathy to your parents amd siblings.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosenNoir
    not all humans are social creatures, and I don't see why social interaction matters so much.
    We learn from each other. Take you asking all those questions for example, are you just bored or are you interested in what people think?

    Buddhists are not emotional, they are not weird they are Buddhists. Psychopaths are also not emotional, they are weird though.

    Not all emotionless people are created equally. The eyes reveal who you are.

    I am emotionless most of the time, but I play guitar and get very carried away.

    I think most people who are collected on the outside are quite furious on the inside. You are probably no exception.

    Existentially it seems as though you need to get away from all of that stuff you are questioning the purpose of. Not because it is useless, but because it is useless to you at this moment in your life. After some time of being alone you might remember why you used to love just hanging out playing games.

    The mind can't analyze and work all the time, you need to relax and enjoy yourself, allow the mind to process what it has learned, you are not a machine. Family and friends have the ability to take you out of your own head, which allows your braincells to grow. People who never stop socializing don't have anything in their braincells, but it is important to find a balance.

    Mind body and soul. You need to work and learn to strengthen your mind, you need to excersize and eat healthy to strengthen your body and you need to socialize and love to strengthen your soul, all three of these parts of you are connected. Without one your other two become deranged.

    If you are feeble and loveless, all you have is a mind, all you can do is work and learn and work and learn, you WILL go crazy eventually if you never stop. And one day if you ever want to stop, you will find that it is quite hard to break old habits.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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    I'm emotionless most of the time because I wish to keep an objective universal point of view, which may be an advantage when seeking to win an argument, otherwise, it annoys family members. But it's something I'm used to doing, as it'll be quite proficient when it comes to arguing ideals and policies. But, I simply don't have time for interaction with my family, which is what it all comes down to. They've described it as living with a "ghost", but I have much work and planning to do. They need to understand. however, they don't. But, that's fine. But their emotions seem very illogical.
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    But the most important of all, what is family? Why do people think that being in a family automatically warrants interaction between family members, and caring between family members?
    Families are identified by their innate devotion to each other and by their willingness to accept the flaws in someone and still accept them as their own kind. This willingness would not exist if the original family did not feel that the new member possessed something beautiful and unique; something that couldnt be marred by any apparent flaws or blemishes in one's personality or exterior.

    Family - a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals and, frequently, live together

    If people can have so many common interests and attitudes, how could they not care for each other? After all, I believe that no matter how much you may despise a person or be different from him/her, if you can find one thing that you have in common, slowly, ever so slowly...you will bond.

    And that bond will ultimately expand into a family.

    Because a family can be two people, or it can be 200 people. All that matters is that you maintain a solid connection with each other.
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  9. #8 Re: What is society?- Normality vs. Abnormality 
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    These are my answers from the education, self experience, conditioning and dogma that I hold as a middle Englander of the age 21 say... Forgive any ignorance...

    What is society?
    Society is the collection of human beings that live within a belief system and approach to life. There are different socities in the world and society itself seems to change greatly over time.

    These changes today relative to the past seem to be the direct result of deintellectualisation (if there is such a word.. oh the irony), which is a result of the media and the establishment of sub-cultural and sub-society groups. Mainly the smaller numbers inflicting influence upon the mass.


    What is normality?
    That which the majority of people within society are or do. AKA social activities, belief systems, behaviours, opinions, likes, dislikes, fashion etc etc etc.


    What is abnormality?

    That which is the minority of people within society. Usually this term is used relative to normality, whereas normality on the other hand is not used relative to abnormality... Which itself is very interesting to denote why. It seems as though you can find a prejudice in that...


    What is family?

    In a biological way, it is those who are genetically close to us.
    In a cultural way (in my culture) it is people who I know and grew up around. How they behave is totally different, as is my opinion on them. My family in particular have always had problems being, well a close loving family. You know, looking back they are getting better... maybe thats because of my influence?


    What are friends?

    People that we have found from society and bonded with them due to the similarites to us. This raises a good question. There is a lot of conformity in modern society so in retrospect, we could all be friends. But we know from history that that is not possible. Todays friends are not that which are because of ourlike of them, but rather how they are alike us in the way we conform, or to feel as part of a group... Bad idea.


    Why do we see it as normal to care about family members?

    From a biological, nature perspective that is so that we can preserve our genetics so that they have a higher probability of being passed on.

    From a nuture point of view, it is due to the attachments we have them, or the development... Oh I hate starting from scratch... I'm not getting into psychology, nor am I getting into its millions of godamn sub branches. No doubt they all are factors...


    Why do we see it as abnormal to be emotionless?
    I don't. By we I assume you mean society. Society doesn't understand 'disconnecting'. We have a society and culture today that needs to know everything about everyone instantly. To not care about this, or have this same motivation, or to be emotionaly attached to these things is percieved to be abnormal because, well, because it isn't what most people do (which they probably might if they dare come out of their little groups). The world is in a prison, and we enforce and police it ourselves...


    Why does everyone foster this misguided blind subjective view that everyone should care about their family, and that differences in thought on this denote psychological problems?

    We're all different, our genes, our minds, our perspectives and our experiences, our attitudes etc. Nobody is normal NOBODY. They just pretend to be so that they don't have to ask themselves the same questions you are now. There is no normal, and by thinking what you say abnormal, they aren't actually reaching that conclusion themselves because they seem to lack the understanding of uniqueness of every human being on Earth. Which again comes back to unintelligence....

    The media and the 'Government (not the governments) have very brilliantly brought around this world we live in today. A prison that we cannot see or taste or touch. To quote the Matrix... A prison for our minds... We are no longer able to think for ourselves, to be ourselves, where we are reprimanded on everything we do...

    I don't see it getting any better either. Its going to get worse as people get stupider and more unintelligent... We need to change the media and the Government to do anything about it. Surely any truly intelligent person can work out whats going on. :?



    Where did this misguided sense of familial closeness come from?
    In a modern world of being closed off and isolated, its hard to see our old ways. And its easy to not understand why naturally we are close to family...

    People, family and neighbours used to be really close to each other. They had to to survive. The closeness of then kept us all alive, fed us, clothed us and nutured us. Today every person on Earth (or most) is alone due to how the world is moving more and more to the 'self'. The self cannot surivive and the only way to get to the future is together. Unless you are really strong inside (most people are not, 99.99% actually).

    I find it suspicious that the world is the way it is, completley different to how it used to be. I also do not understand why we in all history have been similar and now we are totally different. There has been a 'dumbing down', and lack of moral conduct being upheld (which is the result of intellect, not religion loss as some would dictate).

    Something fishy is going on. Believe me or not, but I don't think Uncle Sam and other leaders has our best intentions at heart. Just simply look at old presidents and their quotes and see what I am talking about. From George Washington talking about the Illuminati, to another discussing how such a bank such as the federal reserve bank would imprison the states. How the people who were against its establisment (very rich men who could decide its existence) were killed on the Titanic and then it came into reality. How JFK spoke against it and then for him to be 'exterminated'. There is a lot to learn, and I can say that because my intelligence is ever on the rise and always let myself be open to the fact that I might be wrong, I can see these things.


    But the most important of all, what is family? Why do people think that being in a family automatically warrants interaction between family members, and caring between family members? I have work to do, theories, books to write, I don't have the time to interact with my family. I don't use emotion much when talking, because I don't have these brainwashing subjective ideological views of caring about one's family. Because such views distract one from reality. I'm a progressive thinker, not a maintainer of already derailed value.

    Why do people devote their very minds to these negatively conformist ideologies, which are neither rational, nor beneficent?
    Family rosenNoir, is nature, and it is our history, and what we have always been. If you get rid of it and not care for it, then how are you different from a murderer who values no human life? This is perhaps how your family is seeing you. In this light... Not as a murderer, but more to the fact how you are disconnecting.

    I am viewed by my family in a similar way. I do not care about what they do, what they think or how they behave. If they need my help I will help them.

    Before I finish ask yourself this. If you had a child and it was crying to be with you, for whatever reason... would you nuture it? Or leave it? Maybe your parents should answer that question also... Compare the results and see if you are 'abnormal' after all, first hand....
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  10. #9  
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    You have provided a very insightful answer, Bad Wolf.

    My political agenda, is to save the human race from destruction by pollution and environmental degradation to the point of no return, using a provisional emergency preservationist government using prcautionary reactionary preventitive measures in order to preserve the environment. Of course, here is one conflict.

    How do we respect others rights if others right are exactly what's creating this possibly civillization ending descrepancy?

    Let's take an example.

    (You can put glass in the garbage collector, however, you're charged 5 cents for it. Even though you are charged, it's not a big deal to you, so you continue to do it without penalty, save the 5 cents. The glass is going to a landfill and being buried, taken out of the ecosystem buried under mountains of non-biodegradable trash.)

    Does that sound like reality? Yes, it is reality, at least in some people's daily life, wasting is routine. Now, if we talk about this, and on an international scale, how do we negotiate with countries to stop polluting? If we cannot persuade, we cannot dissuage, and thusly, physical action IS the only way. People must realize this. Democracy preserves our freedom, but it is a haven for ignorance. Ignorance preserves our dogma, dogma is a gateway to destruction.

    This perceived sense of normality is not normal at all, in fact, everything that exists not created by nature should be considered abnormal. Our very societies can fall as easily as a tree is created. Think about that.


    This is what I think about every day, forming my plans, already I've begun entrance into local town government, but to me, family and these emotional "obligations" which everyone says are normal, pale in comparison to my plans. Relative to my plans to create a different world governmental system, family seems to be no object. This is why I am "abnormal". But is it so abnormal when one considers the vastness that is government compared to familial formalities?
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  11. #10 Re: What is society?- Normality vs. Abnormality 
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    What is society?
    Society is an environment that influences you. What you are depends on what society you choose to be in. Society is also the framework that provide for your every needs. Without it, you'll not be able to survive. This is so because we've now come to a stage of globalisation that no one is able to survive on his own without the participation of others.

    What is normality?
    What is normal depends on what society think is normal. Majority rules. If the majority think that the world is flat, so that is normal. If somehow the trend slowly catches on that the world is flat and society think it is round, then that is normal.

    What is abnormality?
    Abnormality is what society think is not normal. When Galileo said the world was actually round, society ridiculed him (more likely the churches that did that). It was abnormal then to think that the world is round then. It is the in thing now though fyi.

    What is family?
    Family represents a closer framework of giving and receiving, although we're all egoists and have only the will to receive, there is still a connection where the father has to work to provide for the wife and children, and the wife prepares the condition/reason for a husband to work and gives to the children.

    What are friends?
    Friends are elements of society where you have free will to choose from. If you desire to be a doctor, put yourself within circle of friends who has the same aspirations. You buy yourself a friend by giving the same condition to them.

    Why do we see it as normal to care about family members?
    Again, because society thinks so.

    Why do we see it as abnormal to be emotionless?
    Same as above
    ~ One’s ultimate perfection depends on the development of all the members of society ~ Kabbalah
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