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Thread: Could we live without a sun?

  1. #1 Could we live without a sun? 
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    Lets say if we settled down on planet far from the sun, and built greenhouses to live in. Where its enough heat for us. And all the food we need are grown in there aswell.

    (this is after our sun has run out of fuel, and expanded so much that the earth is eaten by it.)

    I belive it is possible to do this. But will demand insane knowledge and energy. And also countermeassures if the greenhouses are attacked by meteorites.

    So those holes need to be sealed automaticly, by some advanced system. And maybe that greenhouse then need to have many layers. So when first layer is hit, it must be fixed before it hits layer 2. And at the same time, if the enviroment outside is poisinous, the poisson will also have to be instantly neutralized.

    One can go on and on about this collony.


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  3. #2  
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    Colonies that never die. You're talking about immortality.

    Given plenty of time, and resources, slapdash replication totally overtakes costly models. You know rabbits.


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  4. #3  
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    You don't seem to have explained where you are getting energy from. Could you do that?
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  5. #4 Energy is in this case produced by cold fusion. 
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    So it will not be radioactive.
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  6. #5  
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    what then?
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  7. #6  
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    Well i think I would rather die than not have the sun shining!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  8. #7  
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    'We Don't need no stinking badges!'

    (Ok - what movie is that from?)
    We Don't need no stinking badges!

    and built greenhouses to live in.
    Yes, we need an energy source. If we are able to relocate on another planet we should have efficient fusion power by then. Build the colony deep underground and you don't have to worry about meteorites. :wink:
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  9. #8 continue.. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    what then?
    The greenhouse contains all the prosesses which nature offers in an ecosystem.
    If this can be maintained, i dont see a problem with living without the sun.
    There must ofcourse be systems which disables and enables things to happen as time passes.
    To prevent metorites to enter the planet we can have sophisticated missiles that made them to avoid hitting the greenhouses. Or strong antigravity force shields.
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  10. #9 Not bad :D 
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    'We Don't need no stinking badges!'

    (Ok - what movie is that from?)
    We Don't need no stinking badges!

    and built greenhouses to live in.
    Yes, we need an energy source. If we are able to relocate on another planet we should have efficient fusion power by then. Build the colony deep underground and you don't have to worry about meteorites. :wink:
    I never thought about that...

    Ok, from now we have moved underground :P

    All greenhouses ontop the planet are all gone, its is only in our memory, as a small glimmer.
    But underground they are ofcourse now.
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  11. #10 Re: continue.. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermaltake
    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    what then?
    The greenhouse contains all the prosesses which nature offers in an ecosystem.
    If this can be maintained, i dont see a problem with living without the sun.
    There must ofcourse be systems which disables and enables things to happen as time passes.
    To prevent metorites to enter the planet we can have sophisticated missiles that made them to avoid hitting the greenhouses. Or strong antigravity force shields.

    greenhouses do not work without a sun.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  12. #11 Ofc they do.. 
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    Many greenhouses on mother earth uses electricity to produce light.
    We can produce all the different wavelenghts that plant and stuff need to grow.
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  13. #12  
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    We need an energy source. What is it, please?
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  14. #13 Continue.. 
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    Source of energy can be generated from mbr, and converted to electicity through Microwave power transmission - Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwa...r_transmission
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  15. #14  
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    What energy source is used to develop the microwave generator?
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  16. #15 Continue.. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by free radical
    What energy source is used to develop the microwave generator?
    That can be transported from earth via a rocket. After those are being used for a while, it can be produced new updated versions of the microwave generator, from inside the ever bigger underground chambers on a planet that has all the elements that we will possibly need. So it will be self-sufficient/sustained.
    The planet can also be terra forma with a athmospher too, that sooth us.
    Or if the planet have a athmospher that we can transform into one we can use, then we can be outside ofcourse. But that will take maybe a couple of thousands years to do. Atleast for the complete terra forma.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermaltake
    Lets say if we settled down on planet far from the sun, and built greenhouses to live in. Where its enough heat for us. And all the food we need are grown in there aswell.

    (this is after our sun has run out of fuel, and expanded so much that the earth is eaten by it.)

    I belive it is possible to do this. But will demand insane knowledge and energy. And also countermeassures if the greenhouses are attacked by meteorites.

    So those holes need to be sealed automaticly, by some advanced system. And maybe that greenhouse then need to have many layers. So when first layer is hit, it must be fixed before it hits layer 2. And at the same time, if the enviroment outside is poisinous, the poisson will also have to be instantly neutralized.

    One can go on and on about this collony.
    and where do you want to find the water for all live in this greenhouse? :wink:
    send with rockets too?
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  18. #17 Well i guess chemistry. 
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    Or we find a planet that has lots of liquid water. Mars could have water, but it could be that its deep. Remember, spirit and opertunity has only scratched the surface. :P

    Mars is also rich in minerals etc.

    Or we can try to live on one of jupiters moons, where they belive there is lots of water. In example, Callisto: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...t22oct98_2.htm

    Then we can find a way to "suck" stuff from jupiter itself, if we need extra resources, like those that are scares on callisto. Or fly to another of their moons.
    The opertunities are there, all we lack is sufficiently fast vehicles to transport from one location in the universe to the next.
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  19. #18  
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    well, it's a great idea and i think that the "big/smart guys in the world" already have their plans. One problem is as you said the transport.
    It's almost impossible to transport all humans to one of jupiters moons. And animals too (needed for both food, the plants and for us humans as friends -like cats/dogs etc.).
    What we need is a teleport that teleports us to the other planets ;P
    To move so many humans and other stuff to a planet at this distance is impossible. atleast today.
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  20. #19 We dont need to move all. 
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    We can move those we need to run it. And ofcourse some regular people to buy things they produce. There must ofcourse be a working economy there.
    Remember, we have 4 billion years until the end of the sun
    And also we can use other moons. There is a lot of moons out there.
    Eventually we will be able to go further. To other solar systems, with other planets and new opertunities.
    First step will be bases on the moon.
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  21. #20 Re: We dont need to move all. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermaltake
    4 billion years
    I imagine "we" will have taken on entirely new definitions by then. Maybe "we" will be a plasma coating the globe. It's too distant for nuts & bolts projections.
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  22. #21 The clue is.. 
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    Its not nessesary the fact that there is a long time until the sun dies out, that makes us want to move into the cosmos. It might be we just want to assure that we survive as spieces, if we where to be hit by something big and dangerous from the sky. Best to make sure for the future of mankind, if we are the only one in the universe.
    We will ofcourse take with us animals too on our noas ark
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  23. #22  
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    Its probally gonna burn our arses off before anything
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  24. #23 Re: Ofc they do.. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermaltake
    Many greenhouses on mother earth uses electricity to produce light.
    We can produce all the different wavelenghts that plant and stuff need to grow.
    Yes, and they also need heating in the winter.

    The original greenhouse was just powered by sunlight. Later electric lights and heating was added to increase efficiency.

    Where do you get the electricity for heating and light?
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  25. #24 Full spectrum light bulbs will be needed. 
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    Full spectrum light bulbs exists, and will work in a greenhouse underground without a problem, since its light has all the spectrum of light that is needed.


    How the Sunlight Effects Plant Growth.




    Here is explanation on what spectrum of light that has to be filtered out for the underground greenhouse. And what need not filtering.


    200 - 280 nm UVC ultraviolet range which is extremely harmful to plants because it is highly toxic.
    280 - 315 nm Includes harmful UVB ultraviolet light which causes plants colors to fade.
    315 - 380 nm Range of UVA ultraviolet light which is neither harmful nor beneficial to plant growth.
    380 - 400 nm Start of visible light spectrum. Process of chlorophyll absorption begins. UV protected plastics ideally block out any light below this range.
    400 - 520 nm This range includes violet, blue, and green bands. Peak absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and a strong influence on photosynthesis. (promotes vegetative growth)
    520 - 610 nm This range includes the green, yellow, and orange bands and has less absorption by pigments.
    610 - 720 nm This is the red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)
    720 - 1000 nm There is little absorption by chlorophyll here. Flowering and germination is influenced. At the high end of the band is infrared, which is heat.
    1000+ nm Totally infrared range. All energy absorbed at this point is converted to heat.
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  26. #25  
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    You still have failed to answer where the energy to power the light bulbs is coming from. you have told us how you would transmit the energy and what you would do with the energy, but the source of the energy remains a mystery.

    Will you please try to answer it this time. What is your energy source? You seem to fail to realise that almost all the energy we use on the Earth is derived from the sun. What are you planning to use as a substitute. (I am aware of several that you might consider, but I want to know which you are proposing.)
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  27. #26 Here is the option. 
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    Powertube is a cool new invention that might be used.

    http://www.powertubeinc.com/

    :P
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  28. #27  
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    Alright well since you're having fun...


    Would we be vegetarians?

    Recreation? Zero gravity sports?

    Would colonists have to work or would robot servants take care of that?

    What about transportation thru the tunnels?

    What are we gonna do about those rogue asteroids? We can't run and jump from them in slow motion like Bruce Willis did. Fire lasers?

    Do we bring the dolphins?
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  29. #28 Re: Here is the option. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermaltake
    Powertube is a cool new invention that might be used.

    http://www.powertubeinc.com/

    :P
    While I agree with you that this a 'cool invention' I fail to see its relevance to acquiring enrgy on a habitat that has been assembled in space. Perhaps you could explain.
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  30. #29  
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    Just use nuclear power. If you're talking about a really advanced colony project like the one described by the OP, probably fusion. There's plenty of water in space.
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  31. #30  
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    Somewhere in the thread Thermaltake implies that he will not use nucelar energy. His later posts suggest that he does not quite understand the nature of energy. This might be a language issue. My interrogation is intended to elucidate this.
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  32. #31 Hm.. 
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    I was hoping to get some help with my tread in answers, and not get all the questions
    So you could ofcourse suggest alternatives to cold fusion or powertubes.
    Or the collony could use neuclear power as suggested.
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  33. #32  
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    The logical solution appears to me to be to set up the colony/habitat around another star.
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  34. #33 Yes ofcourse.. 
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    But in this experiment its without the sun. If we in the future all genes has evolved to not take the suns rays at all. It could happen...
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Colonies that never die. You're talking about immortality.
    No not really, the expansion of the universe will kill us all eventually....
    jullie zijn echt domme sukkels het wetenschapsforum.nl is toch veel beter
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  36. #35  
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    No we can not live without the sun as it is the main sourse of energy for the survival of life.
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    I am not intelligent as you guy's are. Cant we use the same energy which you are talking about to find resources and traveling to other planets used to help find resources on Planet Earth... ?
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  38. #37  
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    No we can not live without the sun. You are mentioning greenhouses, how will the plants survive without the sunlight? Plus imagine the lack of vitamin D, Rickets anyone?
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