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Thread: The most important question, the end of all questions.

  1. #1 The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    If one day you wake up, realize you are Hitler reincarnated and you are condemned to suffer forever, what would you do? You are no longer the good person that you know you were. You are condemned to eternal punishment. What would you do? How would you cope? What would your philosophy be? Don't give me some Camus, nihilist parroting, I want to know what would you be, honestly.

    And remember, there is no escape, no minfulness, no Jesus, no detachment, no acceptance can release you from pain.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Can't you create something of a more positive senerio than this? Why is it there is always something bad with what people want to discuss? i've seen this type of question about him in many other forms but it is always about him or some other very bad human. Can't you think of something else to discuss but this asshole?


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    I share with CT the disquiet (and the distaste) for this negative, depressing, wholly hypothetical to the point of pointlessness, kind of question. I ask you directly, what do you hope to gain from such a discussion - it seems to me to be more insubstantial than debating the number of angels one can fit on a pinhead.

    Secondly, in an attempt to lighten the moment, my answer is: reflect on the fact that the volkswagen and the autobahn were pretty good ideas (and, wow mein liebchien, that Albert Speer, he surely could design a monumental building).
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    [quote="Ophiolite"]I share with CT the disquiet (and the distaste) [quote]

    Thank you.


    Secondly, in an attempt to lighten the moment, my answer is: reflect on the fact that the volkswagen and the autobahn were pretty good ideas (and, wow mein liebchien, that Albert Speer, he surely could design a monumental building).
    Actually Henery Ford developed the Model T along with the assembly line before the VW was made. That was the real beginning of manufacturing a vehicle that everyone could afford as well as maintain for very cheap.

    Roadways were developed also before Hitler came up with the idea andthe only thing he did was make German roads big enough and strong enough for his Tiger Tanks to use not cars.
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    Why do you turn your gaze so abruptly when suffering is mentioned?

    Hiding in your head, anger, depression, anxiety, superiority, love, kindness, positivism, control, hope, books, loins, ideas, alcohol, career, childhood, competition, EMDR, god, yoga, logic …..

    Yet you pray to the cross, attracted, fascinated by it, an instrument of torture, of suffering.

    In groves you say you are the good, peaceful kind better than most of humanity. But I can sense the deep anger inside your prison lusting for wings.

    This question will solve all questions. This question will end all knowledge.
    Because all knowledge is your escape hence it is inefficient and very violent.

    I find you people fascinating.

    So what would you be?
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I find you people fascinating.
    Why thank you.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    Why do you turn your gaze so abruptly when suffering is mentioned?
    I am not turning my gaze from suffering - suffering invokes a response of compassion and a desire to help- I am turning my gaze from an infantile question with morbid overtones.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    Hiding in your head, anger, depression, anxiety, superiority, love, kindness, positivism, control, hope, books, loins, ideas, alcohol, career, childhood, competition, EMDR, god, yoga, logic …..
    Apart from EMDR, whose identity is unknown to me, and yoga, which has never attracted me, the rest are not hiding in my head: they are residing there rather blatantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    Yet you pray to the cross, attracted, fascinated by it, an instrument of torture, of suffering.
    You have clearly mistaken me for a practicing Christian, or even a lapsed Catholic. Not so.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    In groves you say you are the good, peaceful kind better than most of humanity. But I can sense the deep anger inside your prison lusting for wings.
    Look, if you wish to spout poetic mumbo-jumbo could you at least make it good poetry.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    This question will solve all questions.
    How?
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    This question will end all knowledge.
    How?
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    I find you people fascinating.
    I refer you to the reply given by CT earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    So what would you be?
    I'd be fair scunnert if you came up with anything approaching a logical response or demonstrated a serious intention of conducting an honest and meaningful dialogue that was not replete with erroneous and oft offensive presumptions about the character and intent of others.
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  9. #8  
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    I would do nothing different at all. Evil does not know it's evil. Good often thinks it's good while in fact it's evil. So this Hitler scenario has no merit. I would be happy being Hitler and go kill some people in glee. Do you get my point?

    The truly good people don't sit around thinking to themselves, Wow I'm such a good person. Some of the evil people do in fact realize they are evil, but they like it. Most of them however are just do-gooders that are in fact the most evil. They sit around and tell themselves just how good of people they are.
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  10. #9 Re: The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    I’m not sure I understand your question,

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    you are Hitler reincarnated.
    -do you mean: what would you do if you realize that you were Hitler in your previous live and what this would do to your current state of mind as another person.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    You are no longer the good person that you know you were
    .

    -do you mean: what would you do if you realize that you are schizophrenic and ones you are a horrible person and the other day mister “do good”.

    -do you mean: what would you do if your conciseness suddenly is planted in Hilters mind and you realize in 1943 for instance what ‘you’ have done?
    As a metaphor to ask what you would do if you get remorse for acts of your past; you can not defend in the present.

    -…
    he who forgets...will be destined to remember (Nothing Man - Pearl Jam)
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    If I were part of the axis of evil, an axe of evil, so to speak, I'd start chopping away, I guess. Away with wood, away with concrete, away with steel, all shall diminish! All shall diminish! Such blissful striking of the axe!

    Alternatively,

    You are no longer the good person that you know you were.
    This differs so from my personal perspective on life that I am unable to answer it. My powers of empathy are simply not powerful enough. Does that answer the question?

    Mr U
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    I am neither a Christian, a nihilist or a poet and write badly.
    I am very curious about your being.

    Some of you take my words literary, scorn me and refuse to answer my question.
    Some of you are a little bit more aware.

    It is a very simple question. It is very close to you.
    It is closer to you than your nose.
    But you cannot understand or even imagine it.
    It is so obvious. It is your basic condition. But yet you cannot see.

    I find this extremely strange yet so extremely fascinating.

    I am not here to belittle anyone or gain friends.
    I am a very curious cat. Curiosity killed the cat as it to Him. But that compared to Life, is insignificant.
    I post a question in the forum so I would know. And that is all. Why hate?

    I do not care about your defense or falsehood, not interested.
    I have been through it for near eternity and it is not fun.

    Take me as a nut. Nuts do not belong to the grove.

    But please answer my question. Do not find it terrifying or serious. Answer it as a game. It will not harm you. Why do you not answer it?

    If you can’t relate at all, imagine. Even if you do not accurate grasp the question, answer without fear of mock. Even answer halfheartedly. Even answer it philosophically.

    Answer my question first. Satisfy my curiosity and I promise I will give you the rest.

    So…what would you be?
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  13. #12  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    So…what would you be?
    I would be me. But who are you?
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    I am Mickey Mouse.

    Now the answer to my question?
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  15. #14  
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    i would wake up...laugh...laugh some more...then do what i do best and destroy the Jews.

    if i was condemed to suffer i'd laugh...laugh again...lie back and scream in pain until i can scream no more.

    what else do you expect i'd do? try to stop it...i'm condemed remember there's nothing i can do...so go with it, and go somewhere else in your mind.
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  16. #15  
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    I stated that I would be me. That is an answer even though you seem to not understand it.
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  17. #16 Re: The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    If one day you wake up, realize you are Hitler reincarnated and you are condemned to suffer forever, what would you do?
    If I would wake up and be the reincarnation of Hilter, with my current state of mind (because I realize I am the reincarnation) I would go to a psychiatrist, because I would see no prove how I would get this ludicrous idea or feeling.
    Condemned to suffer, I presume you mean that the horrible acts of my previous live haunt me, again I would seek professional help and try to separate my current live from the live I previously had.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    You are no longer the good person that you know you were. You are condemned to eternal punishment. What would you do? How would you cope?
    If I was the reincarnation of Hilter why can’t I be a ‘good’ person in this live? Or better yet, why can't I try.

    Probably this is not the answer you are looking for, and maybe this was not the way your question was intended.
    But why (and this question is truly for yourself) are you only just satisfied with one answer that you are desperately trying to hear?
    he who forgets...will be destined to remember (Nothing Man - Pearl Jam)
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    IAnswer my question first. Satisfy my curiosity and I promise I will give you the rest.
    Everybody has answered your question. Now pay up.
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    Only two answers. I have seen garbage pickers showing more honesty and courage than your lot.

    How can I pay up if you dodge?

    I desire to know your being and I am not fulfilled.

    You are wrong. I am not desperate. I am curious.

    If you want the rest… try again, this time remember I have ears.
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  20. #19 Re: The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    What would you do? How would you cope? What would your philosophy be? So what would you be?
    Him:If I would wake up and be the reincarnation of Hilter, with my current state of mind (because I realize I am the reincarnation) I would go to a psychiatrist, because I would see no prove how I would get this ludicrous idea or feeling.
    Cosmic TravellerI stated that I would be me.
    Wallabyi would wake up...laugh...laugh some more...then do what i do best and destroy the Jews.
    Homo UniversalisIf I were part of the axis of evil, an axe of evil, so to speak, I'd start chopping away, I guess. Away with wood, away with concrete, away with steel, all shall diminish! All shall diminish! Such blissful striking of the axe!
    (In)Sanity:I would do nothing different at all.

    Everyone has answered. If your intellect prevents you from understanding the answers, that is your problem not ours. If your immaturity prevents you from appreciating the answers that is your problem not ours. If your intransigence prevents you from accepting the answers that is your problem not ours. If your lack of imagination prevents you from identifying the answers that is your problem not ours.

    It rather seems as if you have a lot of problems. Now, pay up or shut up.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    Only two answers. I have seen garbage pickers showing more honesty and courage than your lot.
    1st fault.
    in your opinion there are only two

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    How can I pay up if you dodge?
    2nd fault
    I see no bullet, so why dodge

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    I desire to know your being and I am not fulfilled.
    3rd fault
    If honesty is not fulfilling then I am not on your quest

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    You are wrong. I am not desperate. I am curious.
    4th fault
    I would rather call it stubborn, a curious man is not prejudged and open to the insight of other.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen

    If you want the rest… try again, this time remember I have ears.
    5th fault

    ears but you don’t listen
    mystic is rendering more attention, then blunt but nuanced meanings, putty full yet truly.
    and just for the record you convinced me of one thing: you can keep your so called insight. I doubt it would enlighten me.
    he who forgets...will be destined to remember (Nothing Man - Pearl Jam)
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    There is so much fear.
    I stir the pool of fear and there are no ripples.

    Whether you post or not, whatever you post,
    I already knew your answer.
    I was hoping for a surprise.

    Very well.

    This question will end all questions, all knowledge.

    How? You ask.
    Fascinating, I already post my answer.

    Life has so much to offer.
    But you run from it.

    You think your running is Life.
    Believe when the mad man says it is not.

    Your running produces a high,
    making it harder to listen to the mad man.

    But nature will kick in sooner or later.
    Your legs will sore.
    You will need to stop.

    Then nature will squeeze.

    You begin your moaning.

    I traveled, years I lost count,
    listening to your whine.
    It never ceased to amaze me.

    Even more amazing,
    so many years, I only saw two,
    perhaps four and that is a big perhaps,
    who lived Life.

    Some of the more creative ones among you start looking for a lock.

    Some wrote 600 pages philosophical treaties and got mad,
    some stared at a wall for 27 years rewire their brain so women thighs will not stir,
    most hunt a husband and hope Spirit ignores them.

    Why do you have to do all this when the lock is right in front of you?
    There is no trick.

    Many attempts.
    Your so call new age has not come yet.
    It has not come for a long time.
    It will not come for a long time.
    This is your condition.
    Strange.

    Life is not morbid it is only real.
    Morbid does not exist.

    Life will not leave you alone because you are Life.

    Just live.

    I am done.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I am done.

    You have just begun.
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  24. #23  
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    are you Buddhist Sixthirteen?

    and are you telling me that my response indicating that i would laugh in the face of suffering did not surprise you?
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    Incandescent clouds of probability coruscated through the sub-atomic realm.
    In a sea of mutual annihilation quarks and mesons, anti-particles and Higgs bosons, sought a warm embrace. [There are not strings attached, said the salesman.]

    Meanwhile the third son of a leper who was falcon master to a sheik whose grandfather had personally thought of rogering Lawrence of Arabia in Haifa tripped over an orange rind left by an itinerant sheep sheerer. Such is often the way of it.

    On a mountain track that stretched from whenever to perhaps the shade of Tenzing Norgay signed the unread document for the millionth time, falling victim to his own identity for the first time.

    Frank Herbert bequeathed a legacy of sand.

    You do not have to write precisely of Harrison, I can afford you some extra latitude in that regard, said John Cleese, a plumber from Exeter and not the one of parrot fame.

    Walking across the Orcadian playa in the Devonian was taxing, for the oxygen content of the atmosphere was lower than Tyrannosaur was accustomed to, being displaced by a hundred million years or more from his own time. Out of sight, out of time, out of its mind.

    To brew a perfect cup of tea the kettle must first be heated by boiling water, then more boiling water poured directly on the leaves.

    Amo, amas, amat, a mammal is a warm blooded creature.

    Sixthirteen, look at your watch. It's now six fourteen. You have missed your opportunity to train.[/i]
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  26. #25  
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    Why do you have to do all this when the lock is right in front of you?
    I have nothing around me but emptiness so there are no boundries for locks to have put upon them.
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  27. #26  
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    I simply would not wake up as hitler or anything else for that matter, I would have died as me and that would have been it.

    but if you new you were doing bad, surly you'd know it's morally wrong.
    so I cant see, your arguemant, if you were a bad person and could not see any morallity issues, then you would always be bad.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  28. #27  
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    Morbid does not exist.
    If you exist then you are a morbid person therefor morbidity does exist.
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  29. #28  
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    do not waste your energy on thinking about what is not
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  30. #29 Re: The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    If one day you wake up, realize you are Hitler reincarnated and you are condemned to suffer forever, what would you do? You are no longer the good person that you know you were. You are condemned to eternal punishment. What would you do? How would you cope? What would your philosophy be? Don't give me some Camus, nihilist parroting, I want to know what would you be, honestly.

    And remember, there is no escape, no minfulness, no Jesus, no detachment, no acceptance can release you from pain.
    Being Hitler, what else is there?

    Why would you aks this question?
    I would suffer in his last days that he had.
    And you don't have to cope because youre hitler, and not "Sixthirteen"anymore. Or "Awareness".
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  31. #30 Re: The most important question, the end of all questions. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    If one day you wake up, realize you are Hitler reincarnated and you are condemned to suffer forever, what would you do? You are no longer the good person that you know you were. You are condemned to eternal punishment. What would you do? How would you cope? What would your philosophy be? Don't give me some Camus, nihilist parroting, I want to know what would you be, honestly.
    And remember, there is no escape, no minfulness, no Jesus, no detachment, no acceptance can release you from pain.
    I love this sort of question.

    To say that I wake up and realize that I am Hitler, requires some clarification. To make sense of this I must suppose that I retain all the memories that I have now but waking up, they all suddenly seem like memories of a dream. And I suppose that the memories of life as Hitler are suddenly recalled to me. But memory isn't everything. There is also personality and things like Hitler's hatred of the Jews. If I suppose that the personality which is mine in this dream were to fade then my answer would become the answer to the question of what would Hitler do and not what I would do. So I must suppose that I retain my dream personality. This would constitute a rather large inconsistency causing me to wonder which is the dream and which is the reality. But being true to my own personality I would consider the difference irrelevant anyway.

    What I would do would still depend on the circumstances and the choices presented to me. The circumstances you describe, however, does not present much in the way of choice of action. Or am I free to dance or exercise? I shall assume not. So in order for your question to have meaning at all, I must at the very least suppose that the pain which I am forced to endure does not interfere with my thoughts and feelings. This supposition is a bit absurd but otherwise the question would be unanswerable.

    My philosophy would be unchanged. I much as I hate Hitler and everything he stands for I do not consider myself to have any morally superior status and so my expectations on the basis of justice are no better than the judgement I received. I may recall that in my dream I had placed my salvation in the hands of God, trusting in Him to do whatever could be done for me. But having never felt that I had the wits to hold God to any promise or contract I would not find any fault in him. I would presume that this was the best He could do for me. I would apologize that my life was so irredemable and regret that there was nothing I could do to undo any of the evil I had done or serve God in some other way.

    I would probably attempt many of the things you would say are impossible like retreating back to the dream which was so much more pleasant or inventing a new one. It difficult to imagine neverending pain that would not become like background noise, a new standard of silence and boredom. In this case I believe my imagination would be sufficient for coping for a long time before my mind would eventually fade into nonexistence or some kind of hibernation. If the pain does not fade like this, all that would be left for me is to endeavor finding some way to enjoy the pain so that I could treasure it as a gift from God.

    Anyway this is my anwer to your question as best I could make any sense of it. If you have any further clarification I would love to hear it and respond.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    Please don't miss the fact that I already answered your first question in a previous post.
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    I am neither a Christian, a nihilist or a poet and write badly.
    I am very curious about your being.
    I am a Christian and yet I feel we think alike in many ways, for your question sounds to me like something I might post myself if I was feeling particularly mischievous at the time. I suspect you are an existentialist of sorts like I am. Besides your mention of Camus, your question reminds me a bit of Kafka's "Metamorphosis" and even a bit of Albert Camus' "The Stranger".
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    In groves you say you are the good, peaceful kind better than most of humanity. But I can sense the deep anger inside your prison lusting for wings.
    This question will solve all questions. This question will end all knowledge.
    Because all knowledge is your escape hence it is inefficient and very violent.
    Do I detect in you the ambitions of a teacher?
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    It is a very simple question. It is very close to you.
    It is closer to you than your nose.
    But you cannot understand or even imagine it.
    It is so obvious. It is your basic condition. But yet you cannot see.
    It is the question of death. The dark unknowable future. Do we pretend it isn't there or try to comprehend it? I like what Scott Peck said, "I have a love affair with death" (The Road Less Traveled).
    Quote Originally Posted by sixthirteen
    Answer my question first. Satisfy my curiosity and I promise I will give you the rest.
    Oh, is there more to come? I wait in anticipation.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    Sixthirteen, imagine this.
    All your life, you've grown up as yourself. You know the family and friends and books and shows and events that have shaped you, influenced you, made you who you are. Over time, you gain ambitions, views, feelings towards or against certain things or sorts of people. Among those feelings is that this is your second chance, and you better not screw up this time, whatever that means. The overwhelming desire to change things in your homeland for the better, to make up for past who knows whats. Then one day, you're reading along, friends have joked about your aspirations to lead, to 'fix' things. Maybe they even joke that you're Hitler reincarnated. So you reasearch on the subject, who was the man who had such power and just screwed himself and his whole nation over? What could lead a man to kill so many? And as you read, you see so many similarities. In upbringing, in ambitions, in feelings towards this and that. What ruined him was wrath, taught to him by a father who died when he was a preteen.
    You get creeped out by the similarities, so you put the subject down. You leave it be, hope it will just fade away with your moment of paranoia. But then in school, in tv, there's always going to be shows about him. More and more, you see similarities, but you ignore it. You want to lead your motherland in the right direction, even if you don't live there at the moment. You can thank your parents, grandparents for how they inspired you to aim towards a path of public service, but you can also thank the parent you lost for teaching you wrath and unbendable, unreasonable hatred.
    Still, the need to do good, the need to make good change is strong, and every day, it battles with your instinct to do harm.

    If I just decided that the coincidences were too much, and that 'perhaps I was that in a past life...'
    I'd continue on. There's no use sulking about it. Maybe I'd worry of how that knowledge would influence my decisions. If anything, it would only make me lean more towards changing things for the better, and not giving in to instincts of hatred and violence. I would struggle with the decision of whether to aim for the role of politician or advisor, because who knows how the power of being an elected official can corrupt? But from there, good changes to society, to a weak government are better than the changes any mediocre person could bring upon the world.
    I guess my philosophy then would be this: Don't screw up this time.
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  34. #33 ... 
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    How would I cope? To eternal suffering, probably not that well really. But if I happened to wake up and realize that I was Hitler reincarnated doomed to eternal suffering I would probably try killing myself which wouldnt help because Im eternally suffering.
    Soo id eventually get bored of trying to kill myself, burn mutilate and disembowel myself so I would probably start taking some really good drugs and become a musician. Once of course I had overcome the pain of my eternal suffering.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Why dont we just eat the stupid people.
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  35. #34  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
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    well if your suffering what can you do?
    nothing...that also describes what we can do to get an answer out of Sixthirteen.
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  36. #35  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    well if your suffering what can you do?
    nothing...that also describes what we can do to get an answer out of Sixthirteen.
    Such wisdom in one so young. :wink:
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