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Thread: Gravitational Time Dilation

  1. #1 Gravitational Time Dilation 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Would it be possible to test the time dilation within a graitational field that is artifically created. Here is the science behind this experiment.

    Einstein said that time dilation would occur in gravitational fields due to the spacetime fabric making light take a longer path, however on this natural assumption, would it be possible to test that in a force of two G's that time would run twice as slow, then twice on top of that at 4 G's?

    The experiment would be controlled and used at a G testing facility for pilots and astronauts whom would carry a clock. Does anyone think this experiment might yield some interesting results?

    Oh and of course the measuring equipment would be a clock on the testing machine and outside done for say 3 minutes at a constant 4 G's.


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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    I think the G's experienced at a G testing facility, is a result of angular momentum and not gravity. So no gravitational filed to bend the fabric of space-time. Maybe a small-scale experiment could be set up to be conducted on-board a space probe as it passes close to a larger planet.


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    But the force of rotation and gravity are exactly the same, gravity. I think there is a missing link somewhere and for some reason there needs to be a link between angular momentum and the stress energy tensor.
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  5. #4 Re: Gravitational Time Dilation 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Would it be possible to test the time dilation within a graitational field that is artifically created. Here is the science behind this experiment.

    Einstein said that time dilation would occur in gravitational fields due to the spacetime fabric making light take a longer path, however on this natural assumption, would it be possible to test that in a force of two G's that time would run twice as slow, then twice on top of that at 4 G's?

    The experiment would be controlled and used at a G testing facility for pilots and astronauts whom would carry a clock. Does anyone think this experiment might yield some interesting results?

    Oh and of course the measuring equipment would be a clock on the testing machine and outside done for say 3 minutes at a constant 4 G's.
    No. That has nothing to do with gravity. You are confusing simulated conditions with gravity. Gravity is based on mass. Gravitational force = (G * m1 * m2) / (d2)
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    Gravity and motion are exactly the same force, everything thing in the universe is unfied under one set of equations, we don't yet know that equation but we know one day there will be, so it has to be true.

    Without an outside place to observe on that machine we would assume that we are sat sideways and that the device we are on is moving to our left. To light on our machine we would see a light clock passing normally, yet at the same time an outside observor would see time slower-the same effect as gravity as Einstein predicted. I know this is true, I have studying this for a long time and have thoroughly investigated spacetime physics. Angular momentum and the stress energy tensor and oridnary momentum and the stress energy tensor are the same in retrospect to the gravitational field attributed to spacetime. However, the note of this gravitational field relative to ourselves on the machine spinning is just like Earths gravity x4, but outside observors would see no change in spacetime. There must be some relative to observor spacetime warp generation that only the person moving at 4 G's can notice.

    I refuse to accept that this and ordinary gravity are two seperate entities, to do so is to work away from the UFT.
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    Hmmmm....

    Don't usually find myself on Willmer's side of the thinking, but I wonder if there isn't something worth questioning here.

    As far as I understand it, Einstein based his General Theory of Relativity on the equivalence of gravity and acceleration - declaring thatm for a body accelerating, or under the influence of gravity, there were no observations that could be made to distinguish between the two.

    If this is the case, and given that we take motion along a circular path (sweeping equal angles over equal times) to be continuously accelerating, why would this equivalence not apply? And if so, have any distortions in the behaviour of light ever been predicted? Or observed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Without an outside place to observe on that machine we would assume that we are sat sideways and that the device we are on is moving to our left. To light on our machine we would see a light clock passing normally, yet at the same time an outside observor would see time slower-the same effect as gravity as Einstein predicted. I know this is true, I have studying this for a long time and have thoroughly investigated spacetime physics. Angular momentum and the stress energy tensor and oridnary momentum and the stress energy tensor are the same in retrospect to the gravitational field attributed to spacetime. However, the note of this gravitational field relative to ourselves on the machine spinning is just like Earths gravity x4, but outside observors would see no change in spacetime. There must be some relative to observor spacetime warp generation that only the person moving at 4 G's can notice.
    I think what svwillmer is saying is that because of the different types of motion of 2 bodies or rather 2 observors results in a different perception of time to one of the 2 and due to that time has to give way as nothing else can (light).

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    However, the note of this gravitational field relative to ourselves on the machine spinning is just like Earths gravity x4, but outside observors would see no change in spacetime. There must be some relative to observor spacetime warp generation....
    I agree. There is something going off that cannot be seen that invloves spacetime changing, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holytide
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    However, the note of this gravitational field relative to ourselves on the machine spinning is just like Earths gravity x4, but outside observors would see no change in spacetime. There must be some relative to observor spacetime warp generation....
    I agree. There is something going off that cannot be seen that invloves spacetime changing, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
    I don't know what I mean exactly, basically without being able to relate something to outside of the machine, you wouldn't know if you were still on Earth or whether you had left Earth and contiuned in the machine. There would be 2 forces of gravity (under you and to the right), but without being able to distinguish outside the machine, you could also assume that the machine has stopped and now the Earth has 4 G's in some other direction, it would be most nearly impossible to detect one or the other as the truth as they both appear as the same 'force'.
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    This seems a very good idea. There appears to be something similar occuring.

    If I were you I'd patent the idea before someone steals it :wink:.
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  11. #10  
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    I already have. That and several other of my theories but thanks for saying anyway. :wink:.
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    Good Grief

    And this is a science forum?
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  13. #12  
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    What do you mean?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    I think he means your grasp of sarcasm needs a boost.
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  15. #14  
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    There would be 2 forces of gravity (under you and to the right)
    Think about astronauts orbitting the Earth in a space shuttle. Why do they float? They are only a couple of hundred km above the earth and gravity falls of to 1/4 if you double the distance from the Earth so they are still subject to practicallty 1g.

    The reason they float is because they are actually in free fall. They are being pulled towards Earth by gravity at practically 1g however, because they are moving at right angles to the direction of gravity they simpy miss the Earth. That is why they float.

    The same as you would be able to float in an elevator that has fallen down an elevator shaft.

    This can also be done on earth in an aeroplane and NASA regularly train astronauts for zero g by putting aircraft in a freefall attitude.

    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Gravity and motion are exactly the same force,
    SO how fast would I have to throw or accelerate a ball so that it exhibited the same gravitational pull as Jupiter?


    I think you simply mean that gravity and acceleration can exhibit the same force upon a body, In the same way a baseball bat or a hammer could both crack your skull but they are not 'exactly the same'.
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  17. #16  
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    To light on our machine we would see a light clock passing normally, yet at the same time an outside observor would see time slower-the same effect as gravity as Einstein predicted.
    This is correct. What you have to bear in mind is that if you were inside the machine and looked at clocks outside your device you would see that they have slowed down in relation to yourself. Within special relavitity you cannot tell who is moving unless you both decide to use a third item as your mutual benchmark and even then it is a matter of mutual agreement.

    According to GR clocks at different distances from a gravitational body are experiencing the same force (gravity) but to different degrees. It is the difference in the degree of the force acting on the clocks that causes us to see the clocks running at different rates when they are at different distances from the same gravitational body.

    cheers
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