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Thread: Alcohol and the forbidden fruit.

  1. #1 Alcohol and the forbidden fruit. 
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    Hello, I'd like to present the argument that alcohol was an important milestone in our evolutionary past and that the forbidden fruit story was originally meant to mean fermented fruit.

    In this I use the ideas that the bible is a collection of stories handed down over milenia rather than the complete truth as handed down by god. Just like in a game of telephone meanings can get mixed up each time it is passed forward to the next generation.

    PS. I am also here as a polymath similar to Davinci, I need to do more scientific research so require to get some recognition to do that. If you like my theory I would be absolutely chuffed if you would take a look at the song I have linked in my profile.


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    Ok on to the theory. I find the story of the garden of eden is so intriguing that I think there is more to it then traditional science would admit. If you were to believe that we evolved from the same ancestors as monkeys in the jungles of africa the garden of eden could very well be ancestral memories of this time. I find that eating the forbidden fruit leading to the banishment from the garden where everything was awesome to the awful place of sin and general terribleness should be examined under the auspices of evolution and climate change.


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    So firstly I would talk about the idea of climate change leading to the banishment from the gardens/jungles of eden. In the event of rapid climate change leading to rapid deforestation/dejungleation A jungle of plenty would change fairly immediately over a few years into wasteland. The strongest tribes would be able to maintain their grip on the dwindling jungles and the food within. The weaker tribes would be forced into exile within the wastelands. In this situation of those banished from the treetops, most would die but the ones that managed to survive on the ground and pass on their genetics would be the ancestors we evolved from.
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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Stop blogging you tit.

    PS a little modesty goes a long way, comparing yourself to Da Vinci makes you sound like an arsehole.
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    Humans are notorious for finding meaning in everything, so what would we blame for being banished from the treetops. My thoughts are that it was the naughtiness that occurs when you get drunk. THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT. (allow me to pretend to be a protohuman for this next part) "The warnings were there, alcohol made us feel bad the next day Lordy lordingtons we should not have been having sex and becoming violent, the elders knew, they tried to warn us and now they lie dead as they could not survive the ravages of the wasteland."

    But from an evolutionary perspective alcohol is amazingly beneficial. SEX occurs at far greater rates when we drink, and sex is the best way to pass on your genetics. Even the violence would be beneficial. A drunk tribe would have far greater ability in a fight then a sober tribe. Just the blind courage would be enough to tip the fight into the drunk tribes favour.

    Fermenting fruit would require you to shelter in place while the alcohol brewed. This would add to the sense of sin as the human wastes would pile up in ways that seemed unatural to hunter gatherer. It may be the act of fermenting fruit could have been the initial reason we decided to change from hunter gatherer tribes to agricultural cities.
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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Yep arsehole it is. Ignoring everything but your own (frankly silly - Da Vinci! More like Da Village Idiot ) posts. You won't be here long...
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    I understand your annoyance at me, the reason i'm comparing myself to davinci is because I need to do more science and the only way I can do more science is if I reach out as myself, its very clearly a specific type of artist that is like davinci and now me. It seems to be that polymaths are good at music, visual art and science with one of music and art being better than the other, for me I'm a better musician then I am visual artist, honestly I only started painting once I felt the science happening. I am very used to this reaction so I'm happy to oblige you but in all honesty I need to do more science and noone takes me seriously unless my art is taken seriously, by me and others.

    Science is a itch that I must scratch, I hope this allows you to understand why I'm being open, and while it may not seem humble, there is no other way forward for me.
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    No one takes you seriously.... I'd get used to that...
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    I like to look to ancient rome as a succesful group of alcohol drinkers, i'm sure it wasn't the only reason for their massive success, but i'm sure their large wine production could not have hurt in their successes.
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    I've actually been through this, my friends and family never took me seriously because the act of producing music is very difficult and you start off being terrible. Now I have improved greatly and the reactions i'm getting for my music has been very encouraging. I'm just here because as I said I need to show my brand. While i'm on the religious board and we're having conversations, I'd like to say that my experiences has led me to being agnostic rather than athiest. The change that is required to become a polymath is very intense and is exactly how the pastor in my hometown described his religious awakening.
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    honestly when you start making davinci claims you tend to get laughed at, especially behind your back. Thankyou for saying it to my face
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    So firstly I would talk about the idea of climate change leading to the banishment from the gardens/jungles of eden. In the event of rapid climate change leading to rapid deforestation/dejungleation A jungle of plenty would change fairly immediately over a few years into wasteland. The strongest tribes would be able to maintain their grip on the dwindling jungles and the food within. The weaker tribes would be forced into exile within the wastelands. In this situation of those banished from the treetops, most would die but the ones that managed to survive on the ground and pass on their genetics would be the ancestors we evolved from.
    What has this to do with alcohol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    So firstly I would talk about the idea of climate change leading to the banishment from the gardens/jungles of eden. In the event of rapid climate change leading to rapid deforestation/dejungleation A jungle of plenty would change fairly immediately over a few years into wasteland. The strongest tribes would be able to maintain their grip on the dwindling jungles and the food within. The weaker tribes would be forced into exile within the wastelands. In this situation of those banished from the treetops, most would die but the ones that managed to survive on the ground and pass on their genetics would be the ancestors we evolved from.
    What has this to do with alcohol?
    they may have blamed the changes on the alcohol they may or may not have been consuming. I like the idea that forbidden fruit is literal and not some alegory for sins not that alcohol consumption doesn't lead to sinning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    So firstly I would talk about the idea of climate change leading to the banishment from the gardens/jungles of eden. In the event of rapid climate change leading to rapid deforestation/dejungleation A jungle of plenty would change fairly immediately over a few years into wasteland. The strongest tribes would be able to maintain their grip on the dwindling jungles and the food within. The weaker tribes would be forced into exile within the wastelands. In this situation of those banished from the treetops, most would die but the ones that managed to survive on the ground and pass on their genetics would be the ancestors we evolved from.
    What has this to do with alcohol?
    Drink heavily and don’t stop if you want to avoid ending up like Paul here.

    Sounds like the author has been to one too many AA meetings.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Hello Zinjanthropos, actually my drug of choice was marijuana. I don't really drink that much. you know sex drugs and rock and roll amiright, well the sex part im doing pretty shit right now, but you know, oh and the drugs part, its not like i won't do drugs anymore but I certainly don't smoke weed anymore. But the rock and roll thats very much on the cards :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    A drunk tribe would have far greater ability in a fight then a sober tribe.
    That is an incredibly stupid statement.
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  18. #17  
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    exactly how the pastor in my hometown described his religious awakening..
    This is the terrifying part. Pastor is humouring you and the only thing he/she knows how to do is push your buttons. You needed someone to say how talented you are and boom, all of a sudden you go from a drunken sot to the reincarnate of DaVinci and Eddie Van Halen. Truth is, you’re just an average Joe who thinks the world can’t recognize greatness when the proof that it can is staring you right in the face. People have rejected the hopeless belief in your talent that you’ve held onto all these years. All the pastor did was keep you in that mode. Maybe the flock thinks you’re great but they aren’t America’s Got Talent judges.

    You actually remind me of my musician brother who I once risked life and limb for, to get him out of a religious cult. Eerily similar situation. Probably why I sound a little harsh but you need to hear it IMHO.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    exactly how the pastor in my hometown described his religious awakening..
    This is the terrifying part. Pastor is humouring you and the only thing he/she knows how to do is push your buttons. You needed someone to say how talented you are and boom, all of a sudden you go from a drunken sot to the reincarnate of DaVinci and Eddie Van Halen. Truth is, you’re just an average Joe who thinks the world can’t recognize greatness when the proof that it can is staring you right in the face. People have rejected the hopeless belief in your talent that you’ve held onto all these years. All the pastor did was keep you in that mode. Maybe the flock thinks you’re great but they aren’t America’s Got Talent judges.

    You actually remind me of my musician brother who I once risked life and limb for, to get him out of a religious cult. Eerily similar situation. Probably why I sound a little harsh but you need to hear it IMHO.
    Look i'm agnostic, frankly I don't care either way, I grew up in a small town in the bible belt of Australia. There is no cult, there is no cult leader. All i'm doing is adding stories from the bible to evolution. How on earth is that Delusional? These stories must have come from somewhere, this is probably one of the lamest theories to get all cut up about.

    As far as the davinci shit, I came up with that on my own, I've played music all my life and have always been fairly talented, I decided to take it seriously in 2016 and i'm finally getting results where people who know me don't say i'm delusional anymore. The people who are saying that are ones that havn't listened to my music. So i'm just trying to get my shit out there, this forum is fun and all but you guys are just a bunch of wet blankets.

    Now ask yourself where would a polymath want to go if they were alive in 2020? A record label, I mean sure but i'm not stupid you know. How about a science forum full of nerds. I mean I'm a massive nerd, I figured you'd love to hang out with one more nerdy musician, artist, scientist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Origin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    A drunk tribe would have far greater ability in a fight then a sober tribe.
    That is an incredibly stupid statement.
    Your right, I didn't mean a wasted tribe, I should have said a buzzed tribe leading to lowered inhibitions and enough so that they are full of courage.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Thorsen View Post
    So firstly I would talk about the idea of climate change leading to the banishment from the gardens/jungles of eden. In the event of rapid climate change leading to rapid deforestation/dejungleation A jungle of plenty would change fairly immediately over a few years into wasteland. The strongest tribes would be able to maintain their grip on the dwindling jungles and the food within. The weaker tribes would be forced into exile within the wastelands. In this situation of those banished from the treetops, most would die but the ones that managed to survive on the ground and pass on their genetics would be the ancestors we evolved from.
    What has this to do with alcohol?
    they may have blamed the changes on the alcohol they may or may not have been consuming. I like the idea that forbidden fruit is literal and not some alegory for sins not that alcohol consumption doesn't lead to sinning.
    You are not making any sense.

    But the allegory of the fruit is not about sin. It is about knowledge of good and evil, i.e. moral awareness. They ate the fruit, became morally aware and thus morally responsible - and therefore were no longer childlike innocents. That is the point of the story: the double-edged nature of human adulthood.
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  22. #21  
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    He's admitted (in a PM) he's here "in order to generate buzz for my music so I can generate income..."

    Waste of space...
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    He's gone.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  24. #23  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    He's gone.
    https://www.myinstants.com/instant/g...utta-here-544/
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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