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Thread: Exploiting Relativity for Capital Gain

  1. #1 Exploiting Relativity for Capital Gain 
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Will legislation change as technology improves to prevent capitalists from taking advantage of the twin paradox to build an empire? For example, assume our space technology improves to a point where we can accelerate to significant fractions of the speed of light where time dilation can be exploited by the Twin Paradox. Prior to our departure we stockpile available non-renewable assets such as land titles, rare minerals, gold, gems, artworks etc in ultra-secure locations and then bugger off into the future never to return but confident that in the distant future capitalism is still alive and well and we can exploit our new found wealth.

    Sure the investment risk would be high as there is a solid chance the world as we know it won't exist, but as "Daddy's NOT Rich" and "Mamma's NOT good looking", my options for future wealth are currently looking slim and I am stretching for alternatives../tic

    I was discussing forward time travel with a lawyer friend of mine and we were playing around with some future possible ramifications we should consider. Would this be regarded as 'cheating' or provided we were prepared to take the investment risk, would this be regarded as by our society as a 'legitimate investment' for the future?

    EDIT: Feel free to comment in relation to possibilities of cryogenics as well as I am currently assessing my options as tax payment time approaches.


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  3. #2  
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    What if your investements turn sour and you come back to nothing but a mountain of debt?
    Storage facilities cost money.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    What if your investements turn sour and you come back to nothing but a mountain of debt?
    Storage facilities cost money.
    Good points Dan. I will include them as risks in my prospectus but add that I will adopt a diversified portfolio of assets under no emcumbrance and will own outright my storage facility prior to departure to mitigate these risks. Assume I hold the title deeds to any property acquired in my storage facility.
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  5. #4  
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    Can you trust your lawyer's grand-kids?
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  6. #5  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Damn. You've got me. I am going to have to bring him with me. Bloody parasites.....Death, Taxes.....and Legal Costs!!!!!!
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  7. #6  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    The cryogenics "problem" is easily solved to prevent you owning the wealth of the world.
    All that needs to be done is bring in legislation: If you go ahead and freeze your ass we freeze your assets.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  8. #7  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    LOL. Ok that solves the cryogenics issue...*politicians please take note of impending FYS legislation (Freeze Your Ass)*
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  9. #8  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Actually I can imagine a situation in the future of severe inequity comprising the wealthy relativists and the poverty stricken absolutionists where the conversation in the ghetto goes like this......."if only my great grandpa wasn't so blinkered and took relativity at face value. Look where I could be now. So explain absolute motion to me again please ....... someone......how did he get it so wrong?"
    Last edited by Implicate Order; August 21st, 2014 at 07:17 PM.
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  10. #9  
    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
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    "$100 placed at 7 per cent interest compounded quarterly for 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 -- by which time it will be worth nothing." - Robert A. Heinlein
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  11. #10  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Ok. More good points. So you need to ensure your return on your portfolio of investments exceed inflated returns. You therefore arrange through a retainer arrangement with your earthbound investment company to be provided with investment updates at say 10 year intervals for say a total elapsed earthtime of 5000 years throughout your journey by satellite transmission to ensure your portflio is exceeding inflated returns. If not, then you instruct your investment company to adjust your portfolio accordingly by satellite transmission.

    Note that once you have accelerated to a significant fraction of c you then turn the engines off and travel inertially to be able to receive earthbound transmissions. Once received you then accelerate again.

    The name of the proposed investment company is Relative Returns Pty Ltd.
    Last edited by Implicate Order; August 23rd, 2014 at 01:19 AM.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    Will legislation change as technology improves to prevent capitalists from taking advantage of the twin paradox to build an empire? For example, assume our space technology improves to a point where we can accelerate to significant fractions of the speed of light where time dilation can be exploited by the Twin Paradox. Prior to our departure we stockpile available non-renewable assets such as land titles, rare minerals, gold, gems, artworks etc in ultra-secure locations and then bugger off into the future never to return but confident that in the distant future capitalism is still alive and well and we can exploit our new found wealth.

    Sure the investment risk would be high as there is a solid chance the world as we know it won't exist, but as "Daddy's NOT Rich" and "Mamma's NOT good looking", my options for future wealth are currently looking slim and I am stretching for alternatives../tic

    I was discussing forward time travel with a lawyer friend of mine and we were playing around with some future possible ramifications we should consider. Would this be regarded as 'cheating' or provided we were prepared to take the investment risk, would this be regarded as by our society as a 'legitimate investment' for the future?

    EDIT: Feel free to comment in relation to possibilities of cryogenics as well as I am currently assessing my options as tax payment time approaches.
    I can do you a neat parcel of temporally symmetric derivaties :-)
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  13. #12  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    I like your thinking. A parcel of temporal symmetric derivatives. I think we can use these instruments to manage mortgage risk. Wait a tick and I will check whether JP Morgan wants to flog them off to the Europeans. What's your commission?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    I like your thinking. A parcel of temporal symmetric derivatives. I think we can use these instruments to manage mortgage risk. Wait a tick and I will check whether JP Morgan wants to flog them off to the Europeans. What's your commission?
    Fairly high for 'calls'. Much cheaper for 'puts'!
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  15. #14  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    At least you are bullish with the idea. With an exercise date of say 5000 years even those puts would get a great premium. I can see those red Ferraris already.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    At least you are bullish with the idea. With an exercise date of say 5000 years even those puts would get a great premium. I can see those red Ferraris already.
    Red does not become me. Mine will be gun-metal grey (with inbuilt Absolute Motion Detector by then, for !!!).
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    Ok. More good points. So you need to ensure your return on your portfolio of investments exceed inflated returns. You therefore arrange through a retainer arrangement with your earthbound investment company to be provided with investment updates at say 10 year intervals for say a total elapsed earthtime of 5000 years throughout your journey by satellite transmission to ensure your portflio is exceeding inflated returns. If not, then you instruct your investment company to adjust your portfolio accordingly by satellite transmission.

    Note that once you have accelerated to a significant fraction of c you then turn the engines off and travel inertially to be able to receive earthbound transmissions. Once received you then accelerate again.

    The name of the proposed investment company is Relative Returns Pty Ltd.
    Let's look at the practicality of this scheme. Let's assume that you want your 5000 yr earth year trip to last 5 years for you. this means that you have to reach a speed with a gamma factor of at least 1000. The energy needed to make a round trip of this type works out to be 3.6e20 joules per kilogram. The yearly energy consumption for the world is 5.2e20 joules. Thus just to get take a 70 kg person on this trip without even taking into account the mass of the ship or supplies he'll need works out to be approximately equal to the energy used by the world in 50 years. Even if we assume that the energy is available, this is this is going to cost a pretty big hunk of change.

    Then there is your plan of being updated by transmissions. If you are coasting inertially, your distance from Earth would be constantly increasing and your updates would be more and more dated (at the far end they could be as much as 2500 years out of date. Your response would take an additional 2500 years to get back. In fact, a signal sent by you at turn around would get back to earth much ahead of you.

    In addition, there is the cost of maintaining and operating (on both ends) a transmission system powerful enough to broadcast signal over thousands of light years.

    Now, even if you could apply your investment gains towards these expenses, considering how huge these expenses would be, just consider the size that your initial portfolio would have to be for its gains to be enough to just break even. So you would have to be insanely rich to start with and be be willing to give up 5 years of your life spent in a space ship to be somewhat more insanely rich.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  18. #17  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Now, even if you could apply your investment gains towards these expenses, considering how huge these expenses would be, just consider the size that your initial portfolio would have to be for its gains to be enough to just break even. So you would have to be insanely rich to start with and be be willing to give up 5 years of your life spent in a space ship to be somewhat more insanely rich.
    Damn. And now it comes to auditing the scheme...../tic :-))
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