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Thread: An approach to a unified field theory from thermodynamics

  1. #1 An approach to a unified field theory from thermodynamics 
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    An approach to a unified field theory from thermodynamics
    Thermodynamics states that heat and work are inexact differentials of internal energy but does not apply this to external energy. It can state that heat Q is dQ = T dS (equation 1) and work W is F dX = integral(infinity to X) (dT)s dS (equation 2 ) Since equation 2 can only be evaluated at the high end, since we do not know the absolute value of entropy, physics assumes that it is zero for work against external energy. The temperature changes are small for most work inputs. But for work input against electric and magnetic fields the temperature rises are measurable. It should therefore be assumed that work input is always an inexact differential at least for work on multi-bodied systems against any force field. All energy is thereby internal.


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    What it has to do with field theory may I ask?


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    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    I was about to ask the same question as Gere. A UFT would be a model that combines all the fundamental interactions into just one quantum field; however, since those interactions are inherently quantum in nature, I do not see what this has to do with classical mechanics or forces, or thermodynamics. I think you are misunderstanding what a "unified field theory" actually means.
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    I purposely said I am approaching 'a' unified field theory. I claim that all fields acting on multibodied systems have in common that they alter the internal energy of the system by increasing the heat requirements of all the entropy differentials of the system, if they cause a force to act on the system. They do not alter the system's entropy. That unifies such fields. The internal energy has the nature that it can be altered by either mechanical energy exchange, work exchange or by heat exchange. That would also have to be a phenomenon that a "grand" unified field theory must be able to accommodate.
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  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudiger von Massow View Post
    I purposely said I am approaching 'a' unified field theory. I claim that all fields acting on multibodied systems have in common that they alter the internal energy of the system by increasing the heat requirements of all the entropy differentials of the system, if they cause a force to act on the system. They do not alter the system's entropy. That unifies such fields. The internal energy has the nature that it can be altered by either mechanical energy exchange, work exchange or by heat exchange. That would also have to be a phenomenon that a "grand" unified field theory must be able to accommodate.
    So you are talking about purely classical fields in classical mechanics ? Because none of the above applies to quantum fields.
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  7. #6  
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    True. I only talk about classical fields.
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    So, classical fields have their hay flowing in visible waves of wind. But, quantum fields have the hay all flowing simultaneously?
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
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  9. #8  
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    I was wrong. In a classical field FdX is an exact differential. In my field
    FdX = =
    is an inexact differential as well as W such that
    dU =
    Last edited by Rudiger von Massow; August 5th, 2014 at 01:55 PM. Reason: tex repair
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  10. #9  
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    Someone ban him.
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  11. #10  
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    Sorry about post #8. It was the first time I tried using tex. How do you type the underscore to make a symbol low? Also the second equation should have been

    The first equation was already given in post #1.
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    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    What we could really use is a Unified Infield Theory, so the Rangers can get back to the World Series.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  13. #12  
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    In light of the poor understanding I get for my approach, due to poor knowledge of thermodynamics, I shall go to more details of thermodynamics in my next post.
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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    It's more likely that people who understand thermodynamics also understand the pointlessness of arguing with nuts...
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  15. #14  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudiger von Massow View Post
    How do you type the underscore to make a symbol low?
    You can use the notation "_{}". For example :

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  16. #15  
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    The longest known system and supported by the most data in thermodynamics is steam. The internal energy of steam cannot be defined as its heat content nor its mechanical energy because its heat content can be increased by adiabatic compression and its mechanical energy can be increased by constant volume heating. However by introducing entropy S we can define heating dQ as T dS. That means that entropy addition on heating requires increasing heat additions on getting hotter. It can be shown that the heat requirements of the entropies are influenced by a transfer of mechanical work W. Having the steam in a tube with a movable plug, we can call work F dX, the force F on the plug and the steam column X in the tube and say:

    or reversible work input causes the heat requirements of all the entropy differentials of the steam to increase. On the other hand
    Q = T dS means that heat input means entropy increase.
    To be investigated is if work against external fields have the same effects.
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  17. #16  
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    It is very difficult to communicate between unifielders and thermodynamists, because unifielders consider potential energy to be a fundamental quantity while thermodynamists consider it an inexact function which can be reduced by removing heat rather than just work.
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